Is A 2 Hour Game Worth $18?

H

HardOCP News

[H] News
Joined
Dec 31, 1969
Messages
0
What happens when, as an indy developer, you are asked for a refund because your game is too short? I think this response was pretty classy:

So yes, I am sad when people think this game is not worth the money we asked for (which we thought was a fair ask). It makes me feel like I failed them. It is ok if people don't like the game, but it affects me personally a lot, when people feel like it was not -worth- the time they engaged with it. But do I blame you for wanting to get the most out of your $18? No.
 
Short answer: No

Longer Answer: Devs need to be sent a very clear message from gamers. We aren't going to shell out tons of money for very little content. A two hour game is at best worth $5 and even that is pushing it. I got way more time out of Angry birds and that was $1.
 
In related current events, Firewatch is out and is getting good reviews but is only 3-5 hours, price is $20. I'm thinking $10 is more reasonable.
 
Hmm... I think if you were willing to pay $18 for it in the first place, then enjoyed it, but were only then a little disappointed that it was short, then you more or less got what you paid for. I guess do a bit more homework on your purchases first, and find out if it's long enough to justify your money?

For me, I'm not very picky on how long a game is. If it was fun and satisfying to play, then I think in general, I got my money out of it. Movie tickets are almost as much as this game, and that's a passive experience. Sure, more is usually better (if done well.) If I'm really into a game, I definitely want to keep playing for as long as I can, but it doesn't HAVE to be long. If it's more or less proportional to other forms of entertainment, then I don't see why there's a problem. I wouldn't want to pay $60 for a 3 hour game though unless it had a lot of replayability. There are a lot of aspects to consider, and legth of game should be lower on the list than quality of experience, fun had playing, polish of the game. Length can be a factor, but it needs to be weighed against everything else.
 
Depends on replay value. One play-through, and it's done? No.
 
2-3 hours at 18$? I play an IOS game by kairosoft for 20-30 hours and it costs me $4.99.


That to me is getting my money's worth.
 
To me it isn't so much how long a game is but what it does. For me I bought the game, played it and was enjoying it, then got to the end and it made me hate and find everything I just did was just a big waste of time. I asked for a refund and Steam allowed it. So did I finish it? Yes. Did I get my money back? Yes. Why? Because it was a crap product for me in the end. Not worth the money.

So, yes, a 2 hour game (more like ~3.5 hours on average...took me 4) can be worth $20...this just isn't one of them in my opinion. After finishing I can say that other than a few places that have pretty scenery and the above average voice acting there's nothing redeeming about the rest.
 
It's not worth it. This is a walking simulator with a linear story. Had they put more effort into the ending and created some branching paths for replayability, it could have been worth it. And this took them 2 years of development?

I'm sorry, but as nice as that response is the developer is still giving us the usual sob story of the blood, sweat and tears they suffered. You made a product for a consumer market. If the market doesn't think your product is worth the price of admission then people are not going to buy it, plain and simple.
 
Depends. If it's not locked to a distribution platform or has unlimited activations (i.e. it has resale value), then maybe it could be worth $18.
 
1- Purchase from Steam
2- Beat game in 2 hours
3- Refund game

If you don't think 2 hours is worth $18, refund the game. Completely within reason.
 
Also, the developer can talk all they want too about this and that...doesn't change the fact that the plot and story of the game was, in my opinion, lazy, lame, and tried to be 2deep4u. They can try to get sympathy all they want but considering how long they've been working on it, WHO worked on it, and the supposed talent they have doesn't reflect in this game at all. Of the 4 other people I know personally that played this not a single one liked it because of the stuff I've mentioned.

I don't know, don't mean to rant, but the dev's response just pisses me off. You know what you people could do? Not ask $20 for a 3 hour game. Ask $5 or even $10 and most of the flak you've gotten would be over. Instead you try defending your game and talk about sacrifice and possible failure as if we're...what...suppose to care? Sorry, but a crappy game doesn't warrant sympathy from me. Plenty of other studios with less experience, less man power, and less money have made way better games.

In other words, shove it. Make a game worth the $20.
 
Armenius said:
And this took them 2 years of development?
Click to expand...

This is what I don't get either. Only thing I can think of is that this is another Bioshock Infinite in which they spent a lot of time creating a bunch of stuff that they just couldn't get to work with the final game.

To me the ending is a big point of evidence for this. The way it just drops and the game ends seems...wrong...to me. Like they meant for there to be more but didn't know how to do it?
 
What should the cost of entertainment be for video games?

My general rule of thumb is the same for going to the theater to watch a film, about $8 an hour or so.
 
Not sure how long Everyone's Gone to the Rapture was, however it wasn't long and I would have been glad to drop $40 on that. I think it was $15 on launch. Incredible game that still gives me chills just think about it.

I picked up Firewatch and it isn't in the same league while also competing in the "games about slowly walking around and not doing much" genre.
 
Well I've purchased a painting before, and after staring at it for a few hours, I didn't feel like I should return it. When I used to go to new areas around the USA, I would purchase trinkets that were culturally significant . I've even bought a seashell from a kid selling them right next to a beach, because it was one nice looking seashell. I didn't ask for a refund for those. I sometimes buy short stories on my Kindle that you can read in less than a hour, and never thought about a refund.

Why would someone ask for a refund for a game that riveted them to their seat with anticipation from start to finish just because they could finish it in 2 -3 hours? Maybe the developer should add 3 hours of filler content like Quick Time Events where you spam a button for 15 seconds to increase the enjoyment factor? Would that make it a better game? Add more to the story just because it needs to be a certain length? What if the added story detracts from the original story and makes the game suddenly boring? Does it make it better nevertheless because it fit a certain mold related to time?

/shrug
 
cageymaru said:
Why would someone ask for a refund for a game that riveted them to their seat with anticipation from start to finish just because they could finish it in 2 -3 hours?

/shrug
Click to expand...

That 'riveting' game you speak of, was not this game. But I agree to your general idea of what a refund is for.
 
The problem is, is that in this specific game users have every reason to be angry. The developers advertised it as a 5-6 hour game. it turned out to be a 2 1/2 hour "game".
 
DF-1 said:
The problem is, is that in this specific game users have every reason to be angry. The developers advertised it as a 5-6 hour game. it turned out to be a 2 1/2 hour "game".
Click to expand...

Among other things like saying that you choices affect the story and that it's "tailor made" for you...which isn't true. Or that the environment is some fascinating area worthy of exploration like as if it's some open world instead of a closed nearly on the rails map.

Yeah...dev's can look for pity all they want but they have been and CONTINUE to be very deceptive and apparently like to twist words more than tornado.
 
I have worked in the software development field for many years. Most of it was working for a large, faceless corporation where it didn't hit me too hard if something did not sell well. (Although, if a company misses revenue forecasts, they do end up letting people go - so the effect is there).
I've also spent time working with mobile startups. I gotta say - I think mobile apps have made people expect the world for a few bucks. A lot of these companies are counting on millions of people buying their product. Guess what? Most mobile dev companies don't make money. How many "app store millionaires" are there?
Believe me, I've worked with so many that thought they would end up rich. I don't think any of them have made it big. In fact, most probably lose money.

I haven't played FireWatch yet. I would read the reviews and make my decision on spending the $18 before buying it. Do you want indie developers to make new games? If so, you should support them. If a game is too short or doesn't meet expectations, review the game. I think it is fair to ask for a refund, but I'd temper this with asking myself did I enjoy it? Will I play it again?
 
Silly developer, he should have pulled an AAA move and just loaded it with tons of collectible / side quests.

Amateurs.
 
steakman1971 said:
Do you want indie developers to make new games? If so, you should support them.
Click to expand...

Of course, no ones arguing that. But should we support indie dev's just for the sake of it? Of course not. That's not how business works. Just with the dev here that talks about blood sweat and tears and all the risk and blah blah...that's all good and well but at the end of the day if you make a bad product you deserve to fail. No game developer is going to get my money based on pity. But that's just me.
 
2 hours is worth $5 max, this is why Steam refunds exist. I'd be better with this idea if the developer stated that 2 hours is a common clear-time before the sale.
 
Pringle said:
That 'riveting' game you speak of, was not this game. But I agree to your general idea of what a refund is for.
Click to expand...

I got that from the person that started the thread on Steam. They were gushing about how much they loved it from start to end, but were concerned about the length of the game. That's why the developer joined into the conversation like she did. I haven't personally played the game as I only buy walking simulators if they are special like, "The Vanishing of Ethan Carter" and a couple of others.
 
Time is not the only factor. Enjoyment is a bigger decider.
 
You know, it's not just this game, and the 2-3 hours to $18 ratio.

People bitched to no end about the price of Axiom Verge because it's a 2D game that cost $20. Which is absolute fucking bullshit. The game was incredibly entertaining in a VERY Metroid(y) type of way, was HIGHLY polished, I got between 12 and 15 hours out of my first play I think. Point being, and the reason I compare the two, is that people were trying to say that the price wasn't worth it since it was a 2D game. People will complain about anything, and they will try and get their money back even if they've completed something.

Now if this 2-3 hour game was completely broken, or provided an absolutely shitty experience, or something then fine. Get a refund. But I've read a few things about this situation now, and it sounds like people actually like the game for the most part, and are just not happy that it's short. However, this could be for a lot of reasons. Maybe the intention of the developer is that people take their time with it, or look for more things, and didn't expect people to just tromp right through without stopping.

Especially since this is a small Indie Dev, they likely don't have a team of testers that would alert them to play-styles they may not have envisioned.

There are a lot of factors here that I don't think some people are considering. And who knows... I haven't actually played it, so maybe it's not worth the money. I'm not trying to say it is, or it isn't. However, if you buy the game, then finish it, and then ask for a refund... I think that's kinda shitty. If you played it for 30-60 minutes, and noticed you were nearly to the end already, and were getting the feeling that it was not what you were expecting, then MAYBE a refund is in order.

Once again there are a lot more important qualitative factors that I would base a game's worth on than using its length as a sole measurement. Looks like a bunch of people in here don't factor anything except length based on some of the comments I'm seeing. "If it's not XX in length then it's not worth XX in money...) Baffling to me.
 
J3RK said:
snip
Click to expand...

Yeah, go play it then see if your thoughts stay the same. The 3 1/2 - 4 hours that it took me to finish the game consisted of me reading everything and looking around and actually taking my time. I did not, in any way, "rush" through the game. That average 3 1/2 hours it takes people to play this game is from actually taking their time.

Now I think most people who refunded did so because they felt that time was just one of the negative factors of the game. The guy that made the thread here in question seems pretty shitty to me because his ONLY gripe with the game was the length but apparently creamed himself over the rest. I however did finish the game but was disappointed by so much of it that I did refund. Yes I "used" the product but in the end it left me with a very sour taste in my mouth and didn't resolve anything. It had no ending. It was a cheap and crappy product in the end.

So yeah, that's why I say to play it. I get your points but I can't help but go "nope, nope, nope..." because, well, you'll see. Just wait til it's $5 to find out.
 
Depends, I'd rather pay $20 for an engrossing game that takes 2 hours than pay $10 for a 4 hour game that was a bore to get through.
 
I just finished "doors" in less than 40 minutes. Paid $4 but I'm not refunding. I have asked for, and received, a couple of refunds. But since you know how long it takes to play in advance and you know the cost, then I think you consider that before buying.

For example, there is no way I'm paying $20 for Firewatch. I'm very interested but no. I paid $20 for Soma though and it took my 11 hours to win which is completely reasonable.
 
If the game was advertised deceptively to be longer than it actually was, sure, it's the right move to call shens and get a refund. However, if the game was marketed as a small game and meets the description, it is up to the individual to decide whether to buy it or not. I do find with a lot of games that they're deceptively advertised, and I will return it if it is a garbage game.
 
I watched a couple of streamer play the game and I would say I have no interest in buying the game, now that I have seen this interactive novel.

That's all this game is a very basic interactive novel, not really as much of a chose your own adventure as the Tell Tale games.

I think for a first installment from an indie company its not bad, but for 20 if I had spent money on it I would feel a bit cheated.
 
I guess it's all relative. To spend $9 an hour on entertainment can be tough for some people to swallow. For others, not a big deal. An IMAX movie has a similar cost and time, and those aren't interactive or freely repeatable.
 
thedocta45 said:
I think for a first installment from an indie company its not bad
Click to expand...

Go look into the people that worked on this game and what else they've done and it might surprise you as to how this game is as bad as it is.
 
SuperSubZero said:
I guess it's all relative. To spend $9 an hour on entertainment can be tough for some people to swallow. For others, not a big deal. An IMAX movie has a similar cost and time, and those aren't interactive or freely repeatable.
Click to expand...

That's my feelings. It's all relative and up to the individual. Though, I will say that the movie comparison isn't really fair or correct. You go into a movie KNOWING that you can't interact with it and KNOWING that you can't replay it when you want so the money spent there is justified within the realms of the medium. To me games are completely different in that sense.
 
How much were Portal and Portal 2 at release, and how long did it take people to play through the first time?
 
I bought the game and took about 6 hours on it, I did a lot of ignoring the quests and looking around instead. I find it was an acceptable price for a small dev and I enjoyed my time with the game. I've never played anything of this genre before so it was a novelty.
 
Mut1ny said:
That's my feelings. It's all relative and up to the individual. Though, I will say that the movie comparison isn't really fair or correct. You go into a movie KNOWING that you can't interact with it and KNOWING that you can't replay it when you want so the money spent there is justified within the realms of the medium. To me games are completely different in that sense.
Click to expand...

Try telling that to people that went to see Fantastic Four or Agent 47.

They can't those hours back ya know. 8)

That also calls into question the quality of the game. If it's only two hours, but a good two hours, hey cool. If it's 10 hours but a grindfest uninspiring 10 hours, maybe not so much.
 
KazeoHin said:
How much is a movie ticket? How long do movies last?


hmmmmmm....
Click to expand...

Not an accurate analogy. Two totally different things. How much is a car vs. a house? How much is a game vs. a music album? How much is food vs. drugs?
 
Mut1ny said:
Not an accurate analogy. Two totally different things. How much is a car vs. a house? How much is a game vs. a music album? How much is food vs. drugs?
Click to expand...

Then it shouldn't be compared with shitty mobile games either.

For fuck's sake it's on Steam, if you don't want to pay a whopping $18 for it, wait five minutes and it'll be on sale for $5. But no, people must have it right away, and then even when they enjoy it (in the case of the guy who started this idiocy) they want to refund and stiff the developers just because they can (I know he claims he didn't in the end - he also claims it was 2-3 hours, which would put him outside Steam's refund window).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top