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is 15 degrees above room temp normal

J

james.m.flood

Weaksauce
Joined
Aug 11, 2004
Messages
96
i'm using a crap noise-isolator cpu water block while i'm waiting for my MCW6000A

its 20C room temp and i idle at 35 and load at 43
how much do you figure this'll drop with the new water block?
 
What are you using to measure those temperatures?

ps: Victoria where? I'm from Vic, BC.
 
i'm measuring the room temperature with a thermometer outside my window
and for the cpu temperature i'm using the motherboards sensors, i have an asus A7N8X-X using the ASB100 sensors with lmsensors in linux

and yeah i'm also in Vic BC, i live across the street from hillside mall...
and since you live here to, do you have any experience with ordering from bigfoot or ncix, regarding delivery times?
 
cosmos: what is the rest of your system?
Click to expand...

i'm not sure what to tell you man, it's pretty much all there

barton 2500+
asus a7n8x-x
asus gf 5200
kingston 512 @333
pump, hdd block and cpu block from noise isolator,
no rad but instead a 30L glass water jug thatis level with the pump for good flow rates,

i'm running linux gentoo 2.6.6....
if that doesnt answer your quetion can you be more specific?...
 
I'm also using the A7N8X-X, and it reports temps 8C lower than the sensors for my Aerogate2 do. Mobo sensors aren't that great to start with, so I go by my AG2.

My room is approximately 25-30C right now (it's hawt, and I'm sweating just sitting here), and my mobo sensors are reading 30C idle for the CPU. My rad fans are on their lowest setting. The sensor on my res is reading 34.5C right now, and CPU and GPU are at 38C.

I've done large orders from NCIX, Vibe, and Bigfoot. NCIX was really quick (considering I was ordering parts for 2 whole computers), and shipped backordered parts to me for free. Vibe was also super quick with my first order. My second order was from here in Calgary, and they take up to a week to ship stuff to you if your mailing addy and your registered shipping addy don't match (it's their policy, to protect customers). My Bigfoot order was pretty hefty, so I got the free shipping from them. Once the backordered parts came in, they sent it right away and I got it a few days later. All in all, I've had great experiences with these guys.

Have you considered the MCW6002-A? I'm not sure what you want to do for a loop.

I'm in Calgary for work this summer, and I'll be coming back to Vic in a couple weeks. I live out by Camosun Interurban.
 
hey rickyj,
the 6002 has a 1/2" ID and i have a 3/8" ID that's why i went for the 6000.
what OS and sensors prog are you using with that mobo? cuz i really doubt mine are too inacurate... i mean, room temperature is 18C and it says my mobo (with an open case) is getting 23.5C and my cpu is getting 38C
the other reason i don't think the temps are inacurate is because when i just turn it on the mobo reads the same as room temp and the cpu like 5 or 6 deg warmer.. and then quickly goes up to idle temp....
i'm runing Gentoo-linux-2.6.5-aa5 now using lmsensors
i'll get a thermometer in my reservoir so i can see what the water's at too...
how are you mesuring your gpu? with the aerogate?

i thinking my setup will be: pump -> mcw6000a -> mcw50 -> mcw20a -> hdd-blocks -> huge-30L-reservoir -> pump

now it's just pump -> slimflow-cpu-block -> hdd-cooler -> 30L res -> pump
 
Using XP-Pro and MBM5 to read temps in Windows. It just reads from the BIOS (same as Asus-Probe). I have the 4 sensors from my AG2 on the CPU/GPU/Northbridge/reservoir. I'm going to relocate the water temp sensor to one of the end tanks on my rad, so it will get a better reading. My GPU block left enough room for me to get a diode next to the core without removing the shim. Also, my CPU shim and my RBX left enough room for me to sneak a diode next to that core.

That sounds like quite a lot for 3/8" tubing. Of course, doing all that with 1/2" tubing would leave you with no room in the case... :eek:

The MSI board I used for my parent's system, with a 2400+, reads mobo temps at 14C, and CPU temps at 50C idle. I know that the CPU temp reading isn't too far from the truth, but the mobo temp is just crazy.
 
Interesting how much certain boards can have such inaccurate temp reporting.
My previous board was an MSI KT3 Ultra2 and my current one is an NF7-S. I've used the same Barton 2500+ CPU in all the following cooling configurations.
When I ran a Swiftech MCX462-A with Tornado fan, the KT3 (using Sandra and BIOS) reported CPU temps around 38*C idle and 44*C load and board temps around 28-30*C.
With waterchilled watercooling, a LRWW block and Maze4 GPU block, (Radeon 9800 Pro) The KT3 (again, Sandra and BIOS) reported CPU 19*C idle and 27*C load. (board temp 26-29*C)
Same cooling rig and my NF7 right now: CPU idle: 29*C board: 20*C.
The MSI board I believe was reading temps from the CPU's on-die diode. The NF7 has a thermistor mounted under the CPU. My water temp has always been a consistant ~18.5*C. The temps reported by the MSI board seemed believable, but I know the NF7 temps are way off, especially since the back of the board (behind the CPU die) feels cool to the touch. So yeah, I wouldn't worry about your reported temps too much. just use them as a reference when/if you make changes.
 
i agree entirely about mobo's having crap sensors generally, but RickyJ, the A7N8X-Series, their suposed to be awsome...
are you say there is an 8C discrepancy between them and your aquagate2 for all of them?
how are your sensors mounted?
and is there a discrepancy if you read the temps from the bios? and what's a Uber bios?
 
Uber BIOS are hacks of the Asus BIOS's, which unlock hidden settings. One such setting is voltage control for the northbridge. ;)

A buddy of mine has the exact same board, chip, and heatsink I was using before, and his temps were the same. This leads me to believe that my board isn't a freak, unless my friend's board is also coincidentally a freak.

My sensors are sitting right up against the sides of the cores, and held in place with scotch tape (not electrically conductive, I checked with a multimeter).

I'll do a restart to check the BIOS temps now...

edit: BIOS said 27C for the CPU, but the drop might have been due to not having a load. MBM5 reports the socket at 35C, and the AsusProbe software reports the CPU at 35C. I'm thinking that either AsusProbe doesn't look at the on-die thermal diode, or MBM5 is mixed up. My Aerogate2 says that the CPU is at 36.5C right now. So maybe the Asus sensors aren't too far off, and it was just a MBM5 issue? Or Asus doesn't look at the on-die diode.
 
how do you flash the bios with uber, is it a win-app or do you floppy it and boot from floppy? i didnt see any instructions in that page...
did you have any problems with it at all / how reliable is it?
what other kind of extra featues does it give?
i'm prolly goina try it out soon...
like, when i get your reply :)
 
the simple answer is no
ideally you would keep the block temperature at or near the ambient temperature (which is the same location as your rad, not outside)

thermal efficiency decreases (thermal resistance increases) the less the temperature differential
which is why thermal solutions are rated with a °C/W rating
(Thermal Resistance (Rht) in °C/W actually)
Heat transfer is all about temperature differentials. Conduction through materials and convection away from surfaces is proportional to the temperature differential that exists.
Click to expand...
Delta = CPU temp - Ambient Temp
C/W = Delta / CPU Watts

Interpreting C/W: For every watt (CPUw) that the CPU consumes, the HSF will limit the CPU's temperature rise to (C/W x CPUw) plus the temperature at the HSF's fan inlet. For example, at an ambient temp of 25 C, a C/W of 0.25 with a CPU radiating 50 watts means that CPU temp will increase 50 x 0.25 = 12.5 C over ambient temp, or 37.5 C. The lower the C/W, the better.
Click to expand...
any water cooled system employs many heat transfer modes and medias
conduction, convection and radiation (to a far lesser degree)
but temperature differentiual rules the first 2

The heat transfer through the wall follows a simple equation:
Q=k/L(T1-T2)


We can draw some interesting conclusions from this equation. First, heat transfer is proportional to the temperature difference on the object. If the temperature differential doubles, the heat transferred doubles. Second, the conduction coefficient "k" is proportional to heat transfer. If the conduction coefficient doubles, the heat transfer doubles Alternatively, for the same differential temperature, twice as much heat may be transferred. The final observation is "L". As thickness (or distance) increases, heat transfer decreases. Alternatively, to maintain the same heat transfer through a material twice as thick requires twice the temperature differential.
Click to expand...
General Heat Transfer Guide < Read this whole guide ;)
for conduction
for convection the corrallary is Newton's Law of Cooling

so much for the basics this gets much more complicated in a water cooling setup since so many additional factors enter into it
flowrate of the whole circuit head, friction loss, pumpheat, heat transfer in the block\turbulence, heat transfer in the rad dependent on the final ambient and the total airflow

offhand Id say you have many areas that youd need to improve
likely they would be, a less restrictive tubing, and less pump heat
a larger transfer area for the rad or lower ambient

few links
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78055&perpage=30&pagenumber=2 (particular attention to RhoXS and BillA)
http://www.procooling.com/articles/html/maximizing_flow_rates_with_h2o.php

advanced thermodynamics studies A Heat Transfer Textbook Lienhard & Lienhard (MIT & U of Houston) PDF

with any basic thermal solution there are 3 main areas to address:

the transfer interface(s) the larger the interface the more heat can be transfered which is why heatsinks have fins, from a massive passively cooled radiator that could be twice as small with a fan assist or a bigger heatsink, to a waterblock with a pelt employed not only as an assist to the transfer but also increasing the heat transfer size from the CPU core through a heatspreader to a much larger interface, which is possible because of the delta a pelt has)

the transfer medium whatever that fluid happens to be, air, water, or phase change refrigerant how well the heat is transfered to it (turbulence being a great assist generally stripping off superheated boundary layers) to the flowrate be it a less restrictive water circuit or a larger fan
more flowrate in and of itself is always better, but its never in and of itself, there is always a penalty in pumpheat (something that is a real concern in a water circuit) TNSTAAFL otherwise known as the 2nd law of thermodynamics

the temperature differential the lower the ambient at the end of whatever set of processes your employing the lower the temperature your able to maintain all the way up the line, in the case of say a phase change setup, the condenser (rad) being cooled by a lower ytemperature air, means the compresser has to do less work to maintain a set temperature (like a room AC) or simply is able to run at a lower temperature over all in a constant on situation like a computer, same applies to an air cooled heatsink or rad in a water cooled system, its able to remove more heat to the air, and thus the water is cooler going through the pump and picking up energy in the form of momentum, and thus able to absorb more heat from the waterblock for a given flowrate and design

design of components is how you address these three issues
 
Ice Czar strikes again! :D

james.m.flood said:
how do you flash the bios with uber, is it a win-app or do you floppy it and boot from floppy? i didnt see any instructions in that page...
did you have any problems with it at all / how reliable is it?
what other kind of extra featues does it give?
i'm prolly goina try it out soon...
like, when i get your reply :)
Click to expand...
The files on that page contain the hacked BIOS (flash your bios like any other), and a list of the changes. Since they just unlocked hidden settings, there's no reliability issues. Mine's run just fine, and the added NB voltage setting can sure help. I need better RAM to put the NB voltage to real use though.

It's certainly worth a try, and you can always flash back if you have problems. ;)
 
that's tottaly sweet, i'm goina be flashing the bios real soon... i'm installing the GPU, CPU and northbridge water blocks as i type this,... they totaly kick ass...
(using my wife's computar now, it's actually underclocked so that i could have a very low rpm fan on it and still run real cool.... she don't care for performance, just noise :))
 
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