Is +100MHz OC worth it?

[MechaBouncer]

Hi everyone. I don't post here much, but I have found valuable information and recommendations here from time to time, so I thought I'd ask here first. But before that, I'll give you all a little backstory starting with my system information:

Case: Monarch Hornet Pro uATX
CPU: AMD Athlon64 3200+ Socket 939 (Winchester)
CPU Fan: Thermaltake AMD K8 Venus 7+ A1770
Motherboard: FoxConn WinFast NF4K8MC-ERS nForce4 uATX
RAM: Corsair TWINX1024-3200XLPRO (2x 512MB DDR400 PC-3200, 2-2-2-5 timings)
Video: ATI Radeon X800 XL 256MB GDDR3 DVI/TVO
Audio: SoundBlaster Audigy 2 ZS
HD: Maxtor DiamondMax 10 300GB SATA 16MB cache
DVD-ROM: Lite-On SOHC-5232K Combo drive
PSU: Topower TOP-350FX 350W

Now for the problem. I recently started trying to overclock this game box I built over a year ago, but I'm having quite a bit of trouble. I think most of it stems from the motherboard. The Foxxconn WinFast NF4K8MC-ERS wasn't known for great overclocking abilities, but it was one of the only Socket939 MicroATX mobos with PCIe at the time that had any overclocking features. No voltage settings are present, so all I have access to is the "CPU Speed" (which I guess is the LDT Bus speed), PCIe speed, memory timings, and now the HT multiplier thanks to a BIOS update. The highest stable overclock I have been able to achieve with this board so far is to 210MHz with relaxed memory timings of 2-3-3-6 (memory is locked 1:1 with the LDT) and HT link of 4X.This effectively gives me a 2.1GHz CPU speed (10X multiplier). Keeping the memory timings at 2-2-2-5 (or even 2-2-2-6) gets me errors right away in Prime95, so I just increased them all (except CAS because I can only change that through BIOS). Going to 220MHz crashes right away and 215MHz only lasted for a short while before it ended up BSODing like the other level. And all nTune could get was a faster PCIe bus while underclocking the CPU/LDT to 194MHz. I don't know if there's any point to overclocking the PCIe bus at all, so I'd just assume to leave that at default.

I could try pushing it a bit more by relaxing the memory timings further, but I have to ask if it is even worth it at this point? Is 100MHz enough to justify the overclock that stresses my CPU further and requires turning off Cool 'n' Quiet and other power-saving features? I was expecting a bit more out of the famed Winchesters and expensive Corsair memory than this. Or should I keep trying to overclock it further, and if so, what are some other tricks I could try? What could be some of the hang-ups I'm experiencing here? Just how necessary is it to be able to adjust CPU and RAM voltage levels to have a decent overclock?

Well thanks in advance to anyone who can help me out. Hopefully I can do better than this.

 

[Smoove910]

Throw a divider on your ram!



Also, what are your temps and vcore at? With a Winchester I would suppose you could go up to 1.7vcore without much worry.

 

[MechaBouncer]

The problem there is that:

1. The motherboard locks the memory 1:1 and offers no settings (as far as I've seen) to change that.
2. VCORE is only at 1.4V, but there are no settings to change it nor memory voltages, either.

The simple overclocking methods simply aren't there. The temperatures (last I checked) were around 50C for the CPU and about 35-38C for the motherboard. I don't think heat is the issue here as my AthlonXP 1900+ runs just as hot, as did my old Athlon 1GHz Thunderbird (actually, that ran hotter).

 

[Unknown-One]

The temperatures (last I checked) were around 50C for the CPU and about 35-38C for the motherboard. I don't think heat is the issue here as my AthlonXP 1900+ runs just as hot, as did my old Athlon 1GHz Thunderbird (actually, that ran hotter).

One thing to remember is that the older Athlons were 130nm, Athlon 64's are 90nm, meaning less heat and power consumption.

An athlon 64 should idle no higher than 45c, and I would get worried if I saw mine go over 55c at full load. Get some better cooling on that chip, pranto!

 

[-Axiom-]

Have you tried loosening the timings on your ram?
I have that same ram and it is happily at 240 mhz @ 2-3-3-7, on an 875p Intel system.
It worked just as well in my nf4 sli D.
Give it a try...

 

[pigwalk]

I saw something about turning off Cool N Quiet? As long as you're not changing CPU voltages you should be able to keep it running.

 

[MechaBouncer]

One thing to remember is that the older Athlons were 130nm, Athlon 64's are 90nm, meaning less heat and power consumption.

An athlon 64 should idle no higher than 45c, and I would get worried if I saw mine go over 55c at full load. Get some better cooling on that chip, pranto!

To its credit, I think I was running Prime95 at the time. Either that, or I had just stopped it after running for 7 hours or so. I've never noticed it get "hot" when I've checked it out. I'll take another look when I get home as I've been running Prime95 on it all day while I'm at work.

In terms of better cooling, what would you recommend as a low-profile solution in a Micro ATX case?

Have you tried loosening the timings on your ram?
I have that same ram and it is happily at 240 mhz @ 2-3-3-7, on an 875p Intel system.
It worked just as well in my nf4 sli D.
Give it a try...

Thanks for the tip! I'll try bumping them up some more and see if that makes a difference.

I saw something about turning off Cool N Quiet? As long as you're not changing CPU voltages you should be able to keep it running.

Oh really? I was under the impression that it could screw up an overclock and read that it should be turned off. If that's the case, I'll turn it back on once I get the highest stable level. Thanks for filling me in!

 

[Smoove910]

Are there any updated BIOS's for your board to supoprt higher voltages, dividers, ect???

 

[bboynitrous]

I saw something about turning off Cool N Quiet? As long as you're not changing CPU voltages you should be able to keep it running.

You can. I have it on on my system. Pretty much when I play games does it turn off as i'm never doing anything too intensive. Cool N' Quiet really helps the temps a lot when my system is just idling.

 

[MechaBouncer]

Are there any updated BIOS's for your board to supoprt higher voltages, dividers, ect???

No new BIOS, but it looks like there is a newer "Super Utility" for that board. I'll have to try that out now. For some reason, when I up the LDT speed in BIOS or with ClockGen, it affects the PCI speed, but the Super Utility does not. I don't remember if nTune did or not. I'll check soon.

EDIT:
Okay, well the new SuperStep is more of the same, but does let me monitor the temperature like the old version. When idling, my CPU doesn't get higher than 35C. When running the Prime95 Torture Test, it gets up to around 53C. That's to be expected from something working the CPU that hard, so I'm not worried. What I am worried about is that I found the computer off when I came in today and the last thing in the event log was around noon. So I know it lasted at least that long (and certainly longer than at 215MHz), but it probably means I can't go much higher, unless it's only for a short amount of time. I'll keep at it. Thanks again everyone!

EDIT 2:
Okay, by messing with the memory timings (they're now 2.5-4-4-9 for testing), I've gotten the LTD up to 220MHz. I've had it up to 225MHz by relaxing the timings more, but Prime95 wasn't happy with that and kept crashing after a few minutes. I'm thinking of setting the timings as high as I can so that I can see where the stability ceiling is (unless that's a bad idea). I think I can set them as high as 3-6-6-15 via nTune. I've heard the highest anyone has gotten this board is 230MHz, so I know I'm getting close to that I just wonder how much increasing the delay affects the clock speed because it seems like a shame to have to set them that high when they run so low at normal speed. Well I'll see how well it does at 220MHz when I get home from work tonight.