IPS vs VA - a little advice.

[5th element]

Sorry for the bad thread title, but that's pretty much what this is.

I am looking to replace an old 4:3 19" CRT with a 23/24" LCD and have narrowed my selection down to either a Dell U2311 or an Eizo FS2331. (Feel free to recommend something else, but not more expensive then the FS2331.)

I am aware of the pros and cons of each technology, but rather I am after practical advice from people who have experienced both.

I suppose what I am after is experience with gamma shift, black crush, viewing angles and the purple glow associated with off angle viewing on IPS panels. And of course anything else I might have forgotten.

I sit at about 1 meter away from the screen, slightly below and slightly off centre, which I would have thought would help with some of the VA panel issues?

However also for 30 mins to 1 hour per day I will sit at about 2.5 meters from the screen in a pitch black room at a lateral angle of about 45 degrees, whilst still being slightly below the screen.

What I do not want is obvious panel glow when doing the latter. I understand that this could be an issue with an IPS panel when viewing dark scenes and I would hate for that to wash everything out.

I spend a lot of time doing CAD work and associated web browsing, but I also play a decent amount of computer games. None of these are fast paced and the closest I get to an FPS is something like Crysis. I mainly play World of Warcraft however, which isn't really fast paced, although things can move quickly from time to time! Besides that I watch a fair amount of anime and some movies. One of my concerns is that going from a CRT to a VA panel might annoy me due to the supposedly large difference in response times, but I have nothing to base this on other then reviews.

Also I have read people raving about the black depth on VA panels but have very little experience with regards to what I would find acceptable. I did visit a friend, who has a Sony Bravia LCD TV and this had black levels like I wanted, but I can't remember the model number. In comparison he also had a Samsung TN panel that sucked on blacks in comparison and no matter how we tried to tweak it I knew I'd never be happy with it.

So what do you all think?

 

[Sycraft]

So for my money, IPS is the way to go on a desktop monitor. I had a VA desktop monitor, I have a VA TV, I have an IPS desktop monitor.

Black levels I find aren't a big deal on the desktop. Part of this is because it is rare you have a really dark screen, there's almost always some brighter areas which cause your eyes to adjust. Also, I never play with the lights off. I used to with a CRT because the damn thing couldn't do bright without getting fuzzy. However with the LCD I turn up the brightness to about 130nits (CRT was 80nits) and have a small light on in the room. Means I can see my keyboard, soda, etc, and is very comfortable on the eyes. Also means the black level on the monitor looks fine.

In terms of washed out, no, not a problem even in a dark room. A good IPS panel will show each and every colour level distinctly. The only problem is that the black is a dark gray, not black. It really isn't a big deal IMO.

So now you are probably wondering the reasons I decided I didn't like the VA:

1) Gamma shift. It was not horrible but was noticeable. In particular what I noticed was how much better the monitor looked far away. I'd lay on my bed, about 8-12 feet away from the screen and say "Man that looks good," up close, the colour/uniformity was not as good.

2) Slow dark-dark transitions. When you look up the response curves of the various technologies, you find that overdriven IPS is pretty uniform. It can, say change from 5-15 in around the same time it can go from 2-250 or 220-250. Not the case with VA, it is slower at those dark transitions. So it might be 12ms for 0-255, maybe only 6ms for 220-250, but 100-200ms for 5-15. The net result was visible ghosting on darker scenes. WoW looked real nice on the VA display because of the bright colours, Fear always seemed to have an after image.

3) Brightness. This may have just been my particular model of screen, but the thing only did bright well, not dim. You could turn it down to maybe 140-150nits but you got real bad black crush. To get a good image you had to have it above 200nits. That is real bright, had to have a lot of light on to balance that. My current IPS goes down to 130nits no problem (the level I want it at) and would go much lower if asked to without any crush.

So there you go. For me, that's why I own IPS for my computer. I'm not a VA hater, but I feel IPS is the better monitor technology.

 

[Whoisthisreally]

I can offer some advice with regard to the FS2331 and the U2311

I own the EV2333W by Eizo, which uses the same Samsung panel. This is a mediocre picture of what you will see at about 80 cm.

The EV23 has three overdrive settings, Off, Standard and Enhanced. Off and Standard have heavy dark-dark trailing, but Enhanced is very good and eliminates most of the motion artifacts found in the other two.

The EV23 has strict viewing angle requirements like all MVA - even TVs. Any field area that is not perpendicular to the eye is subject to deviation as seen in the photo above. Thus, the image stability of MVA over IPS is a compromise.

The EV23 has no black crush. only black 1-1-1 is not differentiated out of the factory. Gradients and white point are superb. The image is very natural. The black level is very low although not perfectly dark. Because of the excellent contrast, dark tones are much purer compared to 1000:1 panels and this results in an image that is much closer to reference for the purpose of games and movies.

As for the U2311, the unit I sampled when buying for a family member had levels of disuniformity across the screen that would disqualify the IPS panel from being used in a monitor like the EV2333W.

 

[5th element]

My current CRT is plenty bright enough. I normally use the computer in a well lit room too, it's just for that one bit where I'm in darkness.

I have considered ordering the Dell and seeing what it's like. If I don't like it I can always send it back and get the Eizo. But then I'm in a situation where I might dislike that too

 

[5th element]

I thought I'd just post in with an update. I ordered a U2311 from Dell and it arrived yesterday.

As expected the black depth of the U2311 isn't as good as the CRT, but it's not as bad as I thought it would be. One area where the 2331 beats the CRT, is with shadow detail.

The CRT would I suppose crush together the last few shades of grey in a black level test, at least the one over at Lagom. This has a rather large subjective effect on black perception and fools you into thinking that the LCD is worse at black then it is. With the CRT if dark shades of grey were displayed it'd show full black, with the LCD I actually see an increase in light level, so what was once fully dark is now slightly illuminated. The effect of this leads you into believing that the LCD is showing you a semi-washed out image, however it's actually the reverse. The LCD is showing the correct image whereas the CRT would should full black where it shouldn't have.

Now real black crush images that I've seen, taken from VA panels look far worse then the minor effect the CRT produced, but I suppose something like this could lead you into thinking a VA panel is darker, when in actual fact it isn't. It's just a minor case of black crush, making greys darker then they should be.

Of course this is only applicable in instances where the screen is displaying a bright image, where the eye's inherent contrast ratio is the limit on the black level.

I watched Star Trek in a fully darkened room and almost immediately detected a problem. The first of which was the Nvidia control panel was applying a degree of compression, cutting off the low black and high white levels -.- 16-235 rather then the full range of 0-255. With that sorted things were much better. However in dark scenes one could easily see that the black wasn't as black as you'd ideally like it to be. This is only visible in dark images in a dark room, which typically only represents a tiny fraction of my viewing time, so isn't too much of a concern.

Viewing anime at a distance in the darkened room, whilst at an angle isn't an issue at all. The IPS glow is far less pronounced then some of images I've seen and granted I can make it worse by sitting at just the right height and the right angle, but that's not realistic as I don't sit like that. Also most anime is bright and well lit, helping to create less of an issue out of the inherent flaw with the IPS panel.

The biggest issue I have with the monitor is the uneven back lighting. This corresponds nicely with the illumination intensity shown over at tftcentral and isn't something that's likely to vary much between samples. Of course this is only noticeable on websites like this, where black is displayed over the entire background. Or more noticeable in all of my CAD software packages that use a white background, where the screen clearly goes from darker to brighter, moving from left to right across the panel.

I suppose if that's bothering me the most then gamma shift in a VA panel probably would too.

Buying an LCD at the moment is like juggling around the cons of which will bother you the least. And so far I am happy with my purchase, it also saved me quite a bit as the Dell is considerably cheaper then the Eizo.

 

[alxnet2003]

Sorry for the bad thread title, but that's pretty much what this is.

I am looking to replace an old 4:3 19" CRT with a 23/24" LCD and have narrowed my selection down to either a Dell U2311 or an Eizo FS2331. (Feel free to recommend something else, but not more expensive then the FS2331.)

I am aware of the pros and cons of each technology, but rather I am after practical advice from people who have experienced both.

I have an older LG 24" PVA screen which I still like. Great viewing angles and colors. I recently upgraded to an Apple Cinema 27 IPS display... holy hell, what a display.

About a month ago I purchased a mid-end Sony TV with a AMVA display - lousy, lousy, lousy. Just a minor change in head position would result in very noticable contrast shift. For a second I thought I'd bought a TN panel.

 

[alxnet2003]

So now you are probably wondering the reasons I decided I didn't like the VA:

1) Gamma shift. It was not horrible but was noticeable. In particular what I noticed was how much better the monitor looked far away. I'd lay on my bed, about 8-12 feet away from the screen and say "Man that looks good," up close, the colour/uniformity was not as good.

About the VA screens, I've had good experiences with PVA screens. Good viewing angles with minimal shifting. Now MVA screens I'd avoid like the plague, which sucks because Sony's beginning to use AMVA screens from AUO on a number of their TVs. What a poor decision.

 

[daveswantek]

About the VA screens, I've had good experiences with PVA screens. Good viewing angles with minimal shifting. Now MVA screens I'd avoid like the plague, which sucks because Sony's beginning to use AMVA screens from AUO on a number of their TVs. What a poor decision.

Samsung is doing it too, and yes it is a poor decision, because AUO's quality is lacking badley.

 

[yoshi9784]

I had a Samsung 244T (PVA panel) for about two years then upgraded to a Dell 3008WFP (IPS panel). My uses are both as a desktop and multimedia monitor (viewing video and playing games with a gamepad--console and pc games).

The weird purple tint associated with polarized monitors really didn't bother me since I remain mostly centered in front of my monitor. I only really noticed this in dark scenes if I was standing above and to the side of the monitor. I only saw this problem in the corners of the display. The effect was not dramatic for normal viewing angles. That being said, I also use the monitor for viewing and streaming video while exercising. When doing so, I view the monitor at extreme vertical angles. Both my Samsung and Dell did not lose detail or have dramatic contrast shifts; however, if I were to rate one better based on this aspect, it would be the Dell (IPS).

I enjoy my Dell a lot more for a better viewing experience overall. It is a faster panel by eye, but I am not a professional reviewer. If you look for top manufacturers of either type of panel and pick newer models, you usually end up with a better overall experience since manufacturers do take into account public interest and feedback on previous models when designing new ones.