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IPS vs TN

J

jonneymendoza

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Sep 11, 2004
Messages
6,415
Hi, i am making this thread specificaly to compare the two as i am looking to upgrade my old dell 22inch monitor which is a TN one to a 24inch one to be used for gaming, reading text, browsingm photo editing etc etc.(all round one really).

my question is, why do A LOT of people moan and bitch about the amount of issues in a ips panel?

the Dell U2410 thread has many people returning there monitors due to tinting issues yet i hear nothing about TN panels having such issues?

why are ips panels more expensive and popular dispite it having more issues then a TN panel?

Are ips panels good for gaming?
 
jonneymendoza said:
Hi, i am making this thread specificaly to compare the two as i am looking to upgrade my old dell 22inch monitor which is a TN one to a 24inch one to be used for gaming, reading text, browsingm photo editing etc etc.(all round one really).

my question is, why do A LOT of people moan and bitch about the amount of issues in a ips panel?
Click to expand...

Because the reason they're buying IPS panels in the first place is to get a uniform display that is free of color-shifting

the Dell U2410 thread has many people returning there monitors due to tinting issues yet i hear nothing about TN panels having such issues?
Click to expand...

That's because all TN panels have these issues in the form of terrible vertical off-angle color-shifting. No one bitches about problems that are an inherent flaw of TN itself because it's expected.

why are ips panels more expensive and popular dispite it having more issues then a TN panel?
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They aren't more popular, but they are more expensive, due to the fact that they have less issues than a TN. You're just reading a handful of users who are overstating a small issue of slight horizontal color-shifting of the panel itself. All of the other advantages of IPS are still there.

Are ips panels good for gaming?
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Maybe, maybe not. Depends on what's most important to you. The absolute lowest input lag/response time/refresh rate, or a balance of good viewing angles, contrast, color, and motion resolution?

That said, in my opinion most newer IPS panel displays are just as good at gaming as all but the newest 120hz TN panels that are available.
 
IPS induces high expectations. TN sucks, but people know it, so they don't complain.
 
I just want a ips panel that doesnt contain any ghosting and input lag to be good especially on racing sims
 
I wouldn't recommend an IPS panel for fast paced FPS gaming. Racing sims will be fine due to the fluid movement (no sharp 180degree turns etc).

I've got the Dell 2209wa which is considered one of the best IPS monitors for gaming. Low input lag, low response time etc etc. Having tested it against a friends 2ms TN screen, it is considerably worse in motion blur and choppiness in FPS games. Personally I find it impossible to game on, so still use a CRT.
 
Long ago, I returned a Samsung 19" TN panel as I noticed the color shifting. The effect was made more noticeable as I was upgrading from a 17" TN panel. That little bit of extra vertical real estate made it so that I didn't want the monitor.

The thing with a TN panel is that these effects are inherent in the technology. You can't get rid of it. For those that don't mind, I'm guessing it is quite subtle.

As for the complaints about IPS panels, I believe that these complaints many are from actual defects. It is here where I think IPS panels are not as good as TN panels or SPVA panels -- there is just more variability in quality, or the production yield is just lower. If you can get a good IPS panel that is perfect, then it's the best -- but you take your chances on if you get a good one.

For the green / pint tint issues on the LG panels, you just don't hear any complaints from the other panel types about this. It is here where I really feel strong about this issue. When I got my U2410, the color shift was not minor. If one side of the screen is tinted green and the other half is tinted pink, and this is obvious with just web browsing, I think this is unacceptable.
 
g-t-g times on all of the ips panels suck. you WILL get blurring in games. However, you'll have the best colors and great viewing angles. It's a tradeoff.
 
Honestly between my Asus VW266H and my Dell U2410 I can't really notice the difference in terms of response time. I've got good enough eyes to notice really any kind of defect on ips panels or tn so on some ips panels the difference isn't as great however the higher end ips panels ($1,000+ , aimed directly at photo editing) are very blurry for gaming.

If you enjoy full and consistent color plus even backlighting ips panels have you're name on it . If you can't afford it and want a cheaper option then tn will be what you need to aim for.
 
I have the planar px2611w, it's not terrible for gaming, just hard to read moving names sometimes. I'd take it over a TN any day though. Also, my projector which is a JVC RS10 and LCOS has a bit of motion blur too. No real point to that, just thought its interesting. Oh well.
 
So in a nutshell, ips not really that great for gaming but great for photo editing.

Guess there really is no perfect monitor that is reliable and great for gaming and photo editing.

What panels do HDTV's normaly use?
 
I LOVE my IPS display and will never buy another crappy TN if I can help it. I game quite alot on my EA231WMi and still don't understand what this "ghosting" is people speak of.
 
jonneymendoza said:
So in a nutshell, ips not really that great for gaming but great for photo editing.

Guess there really is no perfect monitor that is reliable and great for gaming and photo editing.

What panels do HDTV's normaly use?
Click to expand...

IPS and S-PVA
 
jonneymendoza said:
So in a nutshell, ips not really that great for gaming but great for photo editing.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily, look at it on a case by case basis. Some IPS displays have internal electronics that introduce input lag (LUTs, etc), but in some they can be disabled to bring the input lag time down. I myself went from a CRT to an IPS with low input lag in an "overdrive" mode and I'm very happy with its responsiveness in first person shooters. Absolutely no complaints in TF2, BFBC2, Q3, etc etc. IPS panels with good input lag most definitely exist, some of which are only a little behind TN.

MVA and PVA panels are generally the worst in terms of input lag, plus they generally have movement artifacts and inverse ghosting, but again this is on average.
 
steal said:
IPS and S-PVA
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ahh no wonder why my hdtv looks more sharper and better colour contrast.

Wont it be better to buy a 32inch HDTV instead? same price point as a ips pc monitor but a larger screen to work in.
 
jonneymendoza said:
ahh no wonder why my hdtv looks more sharper and better colour contrast.

Wont it be better to buy a 32inch HDTV instead? same price point as a ips pc monitor but a larger screen to work in.
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No; the TV is ment for viewing TV and Movies; the LCD monitor is designed for sitting closer and reading text. The monitor has much higher resolution than the TV, so it depends on what you are doing with your comp.

Dave
 
That depends on what monitor you are considering, a 1080p tv has the same resolution as a 1920 x 1080 monitor, and you can usually get to look just as good even for text, the only problem is you need to be positioned further away from it than a smaller monitor or you lose pq. A lot of people don't have that space.
 
Ahh i see ok cool. if i did have the space, a hdtv is as good as a 24inch ips pc monitor
 
sadbuttrue said:
I wouldn't recommend an IPS panel for fast paced FPS gaming. Racing sims will be fine due to the fluid movement (no sharp 180degree turns etc).

I've got the Dell 2209wa which is considered one of the best IPS monitors for gaming. Low input lag, low response time etc etc. Having tested it against a friends 2ms TN screen, it is considerably worse in motion blur and choppiness in FPS games. Personally I find it impossible to game on, so still use a CRT.
Click to expand...


Is your friend's monitor a 60 or 120Hz one?
According to Digitalversus' test, the 2209WA is at the same level as the fastest 60Hz TN monitors.


Here's an idea of how the different technologies stand up:

* 5 ms TN: 1.1 colour frame, 0.5 transparent frames (for example: Iiyama Prolite E2208HDS)

* 6 ms e-IPS: 0.4 colour frames, 0.35 transparent frames (for example: Dell 2209WA)
* Average 2 ms TN: 0.8 colour frames, 0.5 transparent frames (for example: Samsung T220)
* 8 ms C-PVA 8: 0.95 colour frames, 0.2 transparent frames (for example: Samsung F2380)
* The best 2 ms TN 2 (not including 120 Hz): 0.35 colour frames, 0.5 transparent frames (the Samsung 2253BW).
Click to expand...

Acer GD245HQ
http://www.digitalversus.com/article-357-7352-38.html
 
If you are ever looking to move to an Eyefinity or NV Surround setup, I suggest going with an IPS panel due to the fact that you will be viewing your displays from different angles. Just a thought.

I am happier with IPS panels with multi-display configurations over TN panels. That has been my experience.
 
fridaylights said:
When I got my U2410, the color shift was not minor. If one side of the screen is tinted green and the other half is tinted pink, and this is obvious with just web browsing, I think this is unacceptable.
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Ah okay, I didn't realize the color-shifting was that bad. On my 2209WA, I had slight color shifting, from cool to warm left to right, but it wasn't anything like a pink or green tint.
 
notnyt said:
I completely agree. It's a trade-off whichever you pick, but if you can afford IPS, it's the most rewarding experience. I don't understand why people don't want to pay for a good monitor but will have a crazy PC all setup. You spend how much time a day looking at the thing, it may as well be nice =]
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more. People spending all this money on hardware to push all of these beautiful pixels out and then they cheap out by outputting them on the worst display technology on the planet.

And then some of them will actually criticize others for buying an IPS because they "paid too much". If you're on a budget then I totally get it. If you're spending a ton on a system but then cheap out on the display when you clearly don't have to, nope, I just don't get it.
 
Besides, you can keep your monitor for much longer than the computer (assuming that you are a gamer), so it's totally to makes sense to invest more into it rather than the CPU/mobo etc which are gonna get replaced soon.
 
notnyt said:
I completely agree. It's a trade-off whichever you pick, but if you can afford IPS, it's the most rewarding experience. I don't understand why people don't want to pay for a good monitor but will have a crazy PC all setup. You spend how much time a day looking at the thing, it may as well be nice =]
Click to expand...

I have said the same to many people over the years. It is money well spend as apposed to graphics cards which IMO are the worst investment in computing.

Dave
 
daveswantek said:
I have said the same to many people over the years. It is money well spend as apposed to graphics cards which IMO are the worst investment in computing.

Dave
Click to expand...
Yes, i'll never understand it, how many times have we seen people posting here with their mid or high level hardware attached to a silly 17" CRT or 17" LCD that has a low resolution? More times than i can count.

The visual aspect brings the most enjoyment with PC computing imho, and as mentioned before, a decent monitor brings you many years of enjoyment, paying for itself a few times over.
 
SJetski71 said:
Yes, i'll never understand it, how many times have we seen people posting here with their mid or high level hardware attached to a silly 17" CRT or 17" LCD that has a low resolution? More times than i can count.

The visual aspect brings the most enjoyment with PC computing imho, and as mentioned before, a decent monitor brings you many years of enjoyment, paying for itself a few times over.
Click to expand...

What's worse is when you see people brag about those new horrible 27" TN monitors because they're "big and cheap".

Yeah, they also look like dogshit, but have a good time. :)
 
In my humble opinion, any company that sells 23 and up with a TN should be banned.
 
Serpico said:
What's worse is when you see people brag about those new horrible 27" TN monitors because they're "big and cheap".

Yeah, they also look like dogshit, but have a good time. :)
Click to expand...

Not all look bad. I have a Samsung T260HD (26" 1920x1200) and I think it looks great. I only use it head on and I have an IPS panel off to the side as a second monitor. I got it for less than $300 and I think the money I saved over a 26" IPS was worth it. There are decent TN panels and crap ones just like there are for IPS and ultimately it depends on how you are going to use it.
 
Serpico said:
What's worse is when you see people brag about those new horrible 27" TN monitors because they're "big and cheap".

Yeah, they also look like dogshit, but have a good time. :)
Click to expand...
Partly agree, partly disagree. Imho extra size brings some quality to the table in and of itself (higher rez + more screen real estate).

Not to mention that i feel some TN panels look decent, especially when you consider they cost 1/2 or 1/3 of what a higher quality panel costs (i payed around $200 for a 28" I-inc, it can break down in a year or two for all i care :p)

My 32" panasonic IPS-A i'm using as a monitor does look a whole lot better though :)
 
Hay,

I help a lot of people with computers, so many times friends neighbor and so on will come and ask my opinion when they are going to spring for a new comp. In just about every case they want to get a display as part of the bargun, thinking that there getting a better deal. I try to tell them that a display should be a supperate purchase, but very few listen, so they end up with gamma shifting junk.

I still have my Sony GDM-F520 that I paid about $1700 for and it is still a great display.

It really kills me when I reccommend a Dell 2209WA and my fireman buddy says it is too expensive, he dosn't want to spend over $200 go figure.

Dave
 
daveswantek said:
Hay,

I help a lot of people with computers, so many times friends neighbor and so on will come and ask my opinion when they are going to spring for a new comp. In just about every case they want to get a display as part of the bargun, thinking that there getting a better deal. I try to tell them that a display should be a supperate purchase, but very few listen, so they end up with gamma shifting junk.

I still have my Sony GDM-F520 that I paid about $1700 for and it is still a great display.

It really kills me when I reccommend a Dell 2209WA and my fireman buddy says it is too expensive, he dosn't want to spend over $200 go figure.

Dave
Click to expand...
An easy way to steer the average joe away from the lower quality stuff is to tell them to think of it as a "television", and call their prospective monitor a "piece of junk" then tell them that it'll probably "break down in a year or two" due to "leaky capacitors" or "bad powersupplies".

But i get your point, curious how nobody wants to buy a junk television, but everyone is looking for that "FREE" piece of crap monitor to go with their new PC tower :confused:
 
SJetski71 said:
Partly agree, partly disagree. Imho extra size brings some quality to the table in and of itself (higher rez + more screen real estate).

Not to mention that i feel some TN panels look decent, especially when you consider they cost 1/2 or 1/3 of what a higher quality panel costs (i payed around $200 for a 28" I-inc, it can break down in a year or two for all i care :p)

My 32" panasonic IPS-A i'm using as a monitor does look a whole lot better though :)
Click to expand...

My issue is that they do not offer any higher resolution since they just increase pixel size. You can have a 24" display at the same 1920x1200 resolution. A 27" doesn't buy you more real estate, just larger pixels. There are 27" LCDs with the higher 2560x1440 resolution, but they are all IPS and all are expensive, either $1100 from Dell or starting at $1700 with the 27" iMac. I'm guessing NEC's will be about $1400 whenever they come out.

My other issue is that TN panels generally work better with smaller display sizes, things like laptops and smartphones. The larger you go, the more problematic vertical viewing angles become. With a 22" TN you can almost keep luminance and chrominance values pretty close by keeping your head completely still. There is no chance of this happening with a 27" since it is so large. If you look at it dead-on with no movement, you will see the results of its viewing angle. Its why I say that if you have to save money with a TN, don't go OMG HUGE with them, get a 22" or 24" instead. :)
 
schulzpm said:
Not all look bad. I have a Samsung T260HD (26" 1920x1200) and I think it looks great. I only use it head on and I have an IPS panel off to the side as a second monitor. I got it for less than $300 and I think the money I saved over a 26" IPS was worth it. There are decent TN panels and crap ones just like there are for IPS and ultimately it depends on how you are going to use it.
Click to expand...

I agree, especially if you're on a budget. There is also a lot of fudging with TN panels in high end notebooks, tricks they use to mask banding and dithering. Not every TN panel is also built alike, but at that point I'd recommend someone goes with an IPS. I remember doing tons of research into Samsung panels back in 2007 (S panels versus A panels, etc etc), and after returning two displays I just said screw it and got an NEC IPS, still have it and I'll be keeping it for a very very long time. :)

But yeah, if you can't splurge on an IPS, don't do it, get what you can afford. If that is a TN, then get a TN. My issue again was with people that splurge huge amounts of cash on their CPU and GPU but then cheap out with the display. Again, I don't get the point of putting so much power behind outputting high quality high res 3D images only to have those images not look very good.

IPS panels have also become more and more within the reach of lower budgets over the last year. They will only continue to get less expensive. The Dell 2209WA is a perfect example of this.

This is a pretty good list, btw. Not everything is there but it is one of the best I've seen so far: http://www.pchardwarehelp.com/guides/s-ips-lcd-list.php
 
The Dell 2005FPW is an IPS monitor.

jonneymendoza said:
ahh no wonder why my hdtv looks more sharper and better colour contrast.

Wont it be better to buy a 32inch HDTV instead? same price point as a ips pc monitor but a larger screen to work in.
Click to expand...

TV usually have terrible input lag so it's a no go, unless there is a gaming mode.
 
Aesma said:
The Dell 2005FPW is an IPS monitor.
Click to expand...

LOL really? So all this time i've been using a IPS monitor? How come a 24inch mac at work looks better than my monitor? the mac produces much better colour contrast and sharpness than my dell monitor.
 
jonneymendoza said:
LOL really? So all this time i've been using a IPS monitor? How come a 24inch mac at work looks better than my monitor? the mac produces much better colour contrast and sharpness than my dell monitor.
Click to expand...

All IPS's aren't created equal.
 
Hello everyone,

Just to add my own experience to the thread. Yesterday I received my new IPS monitor. It's HP ZR22w 21,5" 1920x1080pix. panel. Before this one I used various 17 inch TN LCDs (from Dell and HP). All I can say after using this S-IPS panel for two days is that I don't see big difference between my old TN LCDs and the new IPS monitor. Yes, the colours are better but only if you look at a still picture/photo. In games and movies it doesn't make much of a difference (for me). The viewing angles are the only big and noticeable advantage of IPS panels. On the downside of IPS panel is the response rate and that's quite annoying when you play [faster] FPS games.

I think my next LCD will be slightly bigger (23-24") TN panel. New TN LCDs are quite good and if you're not that much into video-photo editing (and you're on a budget at the same time) going for IPS (or any other better-than-TN) is a bit of an overkill.
 
i dont see the big deal with ips, they have big ms lag on the images, blur and all that crap.. and their hella expensive
 
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