Intel XE thread

Competitive with the 2080 Ti by the time NVIDIA launches their next generation of hardware. So we'll have Intel one generation behind NVIDIA and AMD two generations behind. That article is purely speculative and this comment is in response to that.
 
Armenius said:
Competitive with the 2080 Ti by the time NVIDIA launches their next generation of hardware. So we'll have Intel one generation behind NVIDIA and AMD two generations behind. That article is purely speculative and this comment is in response to that.
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I find it hard to believe AMD won't be at 2080ti performance with big Navi, so Intel will likely be competing with AMD and Nvidia will have ampere ready to launch.
 
Everyone expecting this to suck is likely very very very wrong.

The advantage Intel has right now.... is neither AMD NOR NV have really been all that serious about moving the needle on graphics performance. Its not like Intel is jumping into a market living on the bleeding edge at the moment.

AMD as we all know has focused the majority of their resources on their CPU lines the last few years. Yes I think Navi architecture is a great arch and it will power AMD for more then a few years. But we have to be honest as well... if AMD was serious about Navi today they would have had big Navi ready to go today. They have made a $ decision that it can wait till they are ready to launch next gen console parts. This makes sense their marketing dept doesn't have the funds to push both CPU and GPU to the max at the same time.... ditto with software, and Fabrication. (Fabrication requires big sums of cash many months before product ships)

NV has been laser focused on AI... the last 2 major generations of their Arch are not gaming first designs. No I am not saying they are looser parts... the fact that they can build a massive monolithic chip designed to do both graphics AND AI stuff and get away with it while retaining the performance crown. Says it all. Its not a game first chip and its still #1. If NV had real competition in the gaming field all those stupid tensor cores that are 100% useless to a gamer would be shader cores instead. (or the die would just be smaller and price to performance would be much better)

Intel is walking in at the perfect time. AMD preoccupied for 3-4 years... NV busy focusing on higher margin markets (that they are about to loose to Intel anyway).

Intel has said they are designing 2 versions (and perhaps even a third for igpus) of XE. One for consumer graphics stuff... and on for compute/AI workloads. Intel has already announced some super computer wins for Xe. The Dept of Energy is building Aurora which should be the first exascale super computer using the Xe compute architecture.

AMD has to worry about intels igpu Xe... and their mid range consumer graphics cards. If Intel manages iGPU even 20% better then todays Raven Ridge Zen/Vega parts its going to eat into a ton of AMDs bread and butter 550-570 range. If their mid range can match 5700 performance they have to worry about that. For NV I think the real worry for them is if Intels Compute version of their XE is at least = to NVs offerings. If intel has added tensor core hardware to their compute platform, NV is DONE. Very few people dealing with NV in those markets really likes doing so. NV has been making massive profits off that segment for more then a few years... and the folks purchasing 100s of thousands in NV hardware are well aware. If intel comes along and says we can under cut NV and bundle deals with CPUs. NV is going to have to drop their pricing and loose all the greesy margin that has been keeping their investors fine with the focus on AI.

Intel isn't a company I normally cheer for. However I hope their GPUs really do everything Intel hopes. It should spur both AMD and NV to focus on actual GPU performance, not just the best we can do with X budget... or the best we can squeeze in beside our AI part.
 
I'll be glad if there is another player in the market to push NV and AMD but I think the writer is giving Intel too much credit right now / clickbait. If they were as far ahead in development as the article is guessing / saying, they wouldn't have had to license VEGA cores for their laptop CPUs. Keep in mind, the claims that a finish product is supposed to be released 2020.

Also the article makes some leaps which I don't necessarily agree with:

- "making discrete GPUs: they hired AMD’s director of graphics architecture and manager of graphics businesses, Raja Koduri, to become the senior vice president of core and visual computing at Intel in 2017. Then came Jim Keller, the lead architect behind AMD’s Zen architecture, to the role of senior vice president of silicon engineering. Intel then snagged Chris Hook, once the senior director of global product marketing at AMD, to the position of lead discrete GPU marketer. Then Darren McPhee, former AMD product marketing director; Damien Triolet, former tech journalist turned AMD marketer; Tom Peterson, Nvidia’s director of technical marketing and a chip architect; and finally Heather Lennon, AMD’s manager for graphics marketing and communications."

From parsing that alone - we see Raja Koduri as an actual graphics guy (formerly S3, ATI, AMD and Apple). Jim Keller - is a well known CPU guy. The rest? Chris Hook, Darren McPhee, Damien Triolet, Tom Peterson and Healther Lennon = all marketing people. So one guy, maybe two with design talent along with a bunch of sales people is = WIN?

I'm not the biggest Raja fan - maybe he can, maybe not; but I do like Jim Keller.

- "Each stream processor is built from one arithmetic logic unit capable of performing one floating-point or integer operation per clock. Intel’s arithmetic logic units can perform four operations per clock, so let’s call them equivalent to four cores."

So Intel is x4 vs AMD in processing power per clock? This hardware theory crafting reminds me of all the AMD fanboys saying AMD cards are going to crush the 1080ti, then the 2080ti ... unless the released hardware does a thing ... it's all theorycrafting. Especially for a first version / version 1.0 of any given thing.

- "Secondly, Intel’s new Xe chips will use faster and superior 10nm. Intel’s 10nm process is considered equivalent to TSMC’s 7nm at worst"

Is this the same 10nm tech that Intel can't seem to perfect / get away from on their CPUs? Errr ...

Like I said, I wish all the claims are true but I don't think they will be - at least not right out of the gate for the rumored launch date of sometime in 2020.
 
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I see two huge issues:
- They have to get their 10nm process worked out.
- They don't have the legacy support that AMD/Nvidia have built up over the years. Even my piddly AM1 APU is a great retrogaming box. My i5 laptop can't really do much outside of a few well-supported games.

I wish them the best though. Intel has done a great job supporting Linux, if that continues and they can achieve good performance in a variety of games I would be a total fanboy.
 
i dont use amd, because i am a rich man(see my sig) but you gotta give them credit, everyone seems to forget they compete with BOTH intel and nvidia and somehow have competitive and popular options in cpus and video cards, thats a feat.
 
DeathFromBelow said:
I see two huge issues:
- They have to get their 10nm process worked out.
- They don't have the legacy support that AMD/Nvidia have built up over the years. Even my piddly AM1 APU is a great retrogaming box. My i5 laptop can't really do much outside of a few well-supported games.

I wish them the best though. Intel has done a great job supporting Linux, if that continues and they can achieve good performance in a variety of games I would be a total fanboy.
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Intel isn't using 10nm for Xe. Xe will be their first 7nm part. (I doubt they have any serious 10nm desktop parts coming either... a refresh till 7nm)

I really don't think they will have much issue with software. The thing is today the APIs are all set in stone. Supporting OpenGL/OpenGles/Vulkan/DX 10-11-12 is not rocket science. The mobile guys all manage to support current apis just fine. Its not that making GPU drivers is actually that hard at the moment. Its probably easier then it has ever been with the APIs being mostly unchanged for years now. No one has really gotten into the market lately as its seen as expensive with low return. Intel is jumping in cause they are sick of loosing super computer business to NV, and Xe also gives them a better package to fight AMD on the big iron front. As I see it Xe is more about making sure they keep their death lock on consumer mobile stuff. AMD needed to get mobile Zen+vega parts moving a lot faster then they have. By the time mobile OEMs are really considering buying AMD in volume Intel will have new Xe parts on offer.

Intel agreement with NV really screwed them over on GPUs. I expect Intel will be coming for the NV cookies now. Ya AMD has to worry but NV should be shitting. They will be positioning Xe Compute platform against NVs. I imagine we will be hearing a lot about all their compute stuff at every event for the next year.
 
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