Intel wins.

[InorganicMatter]

AMD may have the better chip, but with Intel having a monopoly in Dell and now Apple, there is no way they will ever fall. I have heard rumors from people here that Intel is slowly falling to AMD, and will one day go the way of the dinosaur. Not now I guess. I forsee Intel becoming the Microsoft of the processor world (moreso than they already are). I forsee an "I am the king of the processor world and I can make as crappy a processor as I want and people will still buy it" attitude in the near future. Discuss.

 

[Pkirk618]

they have always had more of the market so what did they win?

 

[cell_491]

yea but now that mac osx will be compatible with x86 cpus what stopping someone from building an amd based "mac". Apple will be opening up their software to be used on any x86 based system (hopefully) so in reality intel didnt win much ground because who is gonna buy a apple built computer when they can build ther own AMD powered system that can run the same os, faster, and cheaper.

 

[Shakezilla]

Competition breeds inovation so i dont see how this can be a good thing.
No matter what system you own AMD or Intel, if either one where ever to win then the winner would stagnate and we would see no invovation. So no matter how much you love or hate either company just be aware that without having both we would not be at where we are now

 

[cell_491]

my point was this...now that apple is moving to intel x86 based cpus they are opening up the possibilty to build your own mac based on any x86 cpu, and who the hell is gonna buy an uber expensive apple built computer when they can build there own or buy one from another system builder. So in reality this isnt a big win for intel, if anything its a huge loss for MS because now we can have osx on any machine.

 

[xonik]

Apple has a global market share of 3% (Source: http://www.forbes.com/markets/2005/03/18/0318automarketscan10.html). How does that make this OEM win a deal-breaker for AMD?

 

[lithium726]

my point was this...now that apple is moving to intel x86 based cpus they are opening up the possibilty to build your own mac based on any x86 cpu, and who the hell is gonna buy an uber expensive apple built computer when they can build there own or buy one from another system builder. So in reality this isnt a big win for intel, if anything its a huge loss for MS because now we can have osx on any machine.

people who buy apple computers arent like us (well, MOST of them) and dont care wether or not their mac runs on x86 or risc, as long as its fast, stable, and bug free. 99.99% of mac users arent going to open up their new G5 to tinker.

 

[cell_491]

people who buy apple computers arent like us (well, MOST of them) and dont care wether or not their mac runs on x86 or risc, as long as its fast, stable, and bug free. 99.99% of mac users arent going to open up their new G5 to tinker.

99.99% of mac users still only makes up about 5% of computer users. All im saying is that apple's sales for hardware is gonna drop now that any pc can run mac osx but of course they will make alot more buy selling more software...but that doesnt help intel does it.

 

[GotNoRice]

It goes back and forth like it always does.

The P2 beat the hell out of the K6-2, the P3 beat the crap out of the K6-3, The athlon and the P3 were fairly comparable, the Athlon/AthlonXP’s were generally better than the early P4’s, the later P4’s were generally better than the later AthlonXP’s, and now the Athlon 64’s are better than the latest Pentium 4’s. Just because one company has a chip that is doing better at the moment doesn’t mean much as far as long term projections go.

 

[Obi_Kwiet]

That would be great . I'd hate to go back to the slowly evolving 1000$ crap chip that has no competition.

 

[cell_491]

It goes back and forth like it always does.

The P2 beat the hell out of the K6-2, the P3 beat the crap out of the K6-3, The athlon and the P3 were fairly comparable, the Athlon/AthlonXP’s were generally better than the early P4’s, the later P4’s were generally better than the later AthlonXP’s, and now the Athlon 64’s are better than the latest Pentium 4’s. Just because one company has a chip that is doing better at the moment doesn’t mean much as far as long term projections go.

i agree with you thats whhy all im trying to say is that this is neither good nor bad for either intel or amd, its just good news for apple because now they are gonna sell a whole lot more copies of OSX

 

[pxc]

AMD may have the better chip, but with Intel having a monopoly in Dell and now Apple, there is no way they will ever fall.

That Apple chose Intel doesn't mean Intel won. Winning implies there was even competition.

Intel was the only one to show up with an engine (CPU), chassis (chipset) and driver (compilers).

What was AMD going to offer to Apple, VIA/SiS/nvidia and GCC? Yep, that sounds better. And especially since all (AMD platform) lack of any kind of DRM, that could kill Apple if OS X was easily pirated (not that Apple's computer business isn't already dying).

 

[cell_491]

That Apple chose Intel doesn't mean Intel won. Winning implies there was even competition.

Intel was the only one to show up with an engine (CPU), chassis (chipset) and driver (compilers).

What was AMD going to offer to Apple, VIA/SiS/nvidia and GCC? Yep, that sounds better. And especially since all (AMD platform) lack of any kind of DRM, that could kill Apple if OS X was easily pirated (not that Apple's computer business isn't already dying).

since when has an intel platform had DRM...i thought that was all just speculation

 

[splinter3k]

Just because Apple is going Intel doesn't mean you will be able slap OS X on any box you can configure, I don't see Apple changing their current hardware model or business, just scrapping the clock speed limited G4/G5 to maintain their current marketshare.

 

[cell_491]

Just because Apple is going Intel doesn't mean you will be able slap OS X on any box you can configure, I don't see Apple changing their current hardware model or business, just scrapping the clock speed limited G4/G5 to maintain their current marketshare.

maybe so but it would be totally retarded for them not to market their os to all computers

 

[splinter3k]

maybe so but it would be totally retarded for them not to market their os to all computers

Not really, do a little research and you can see the vast majority of Apple's revenue is generated via hardware sales. Apple will lose the "mystique" and the supposed superior quality if they open it up across the board to all hardware. I fully expect Apple to only provide OS X to Apple branded computers and continue supporting Apple-only upgrades. I serioulsy doubt we are going to see a general consumer copy of OS X for Intel on Newegg any time soon, read up and you will see that Apple prides themselves on making the whole "widget" not just the software.

So in summary, since most of Apple's revenue is from hardware, and switching to more generic hardware now closes the real and percieved performance gap, Apple has less reason than ever to give away the family jewels (i.e. the software) to the general population.

 

[pxc]

since when has an intel platform had DRM...i thought that was all just speculation

May 26: Computerworld Today Australia story incorrectly reported that the Intel Pentium D processor and Intel 945 Express Chipset includes unannounced embedded DRM technology.

The Intel Pentium D Processor and the Intel 945 Express Chipset family do not have unannounced embedded DRM technologies.

The DRM technology referred to in a recent report was not a secret or an embedded DRM from Intel. Intel does support various content protection technologies including DTCP-IP technology, which is publicly offered by a number of companies in the industry to enable protected transport of compressed content within a home network.

Many Intel products today support several existing copy protection or content protection technologies. These include support today for things like Macrovision and DTCP-IP, and in the second half of 2005, Intel will deliver an updated graphics driver that will also support additional content protection technologies including COPP, HDCP, CGMS-A, and others. DTCP-IP technology, which is publicly offered by a number of companies in the industry, enables protected transport of compressed content within a home network. While Intel continues to work with the industry to support other content protection technologies, we have not added any unannounced DRM technologies in either the Pentium D processor or the Intel 945 Express Chipset family.

Intel has supported DRM for a while (like most other video card makers with at least Macrovision), but it's doesn't completely locked out like the chicken littles are screaming. If you look up the acronyms, so are local content protection.

But you're right, it is speculation. The 945 chipset doesn't seem to implement NGSCB-like features, or at least that's what Intel is implying. But NGSCB is "announced" and supported in Longhorn so I have my doubts. If I could speculate some more, the DRM may be in the chipset already but not enabled, like Intel does for many new features.

 

[cell_491]

Intel has supported DRM for a while (like most other video card makers with at least Macrovision), but it's doesn't completely locked out like the chicken littles are screaming. If you look up the acronyms, so are local content protection.

But you're right, it is speculation. The 945 chipset doesn't seem to implement NGSCB-like features, or at least that's what Intel is implying. But NGSCB is "announced" and supported in Longhorn so I have my doubts. If I could speculate some more, the DRM may be in the chipset already but not enabled, like Intel does for many new features.

bro am i reading this correctly...

May 26: Computerworld Today Australia story incorrectly reported that the Intel Pentium D processor and Intel 945 Express Chipset includes unannounced embedded DRM technology.

The Intel Pentium D Processor and the Intel 945 Express Chipset family do not have unannounced embedded DRM technologies.

The DRM technology referred to in a recent report was not a secret or an embedded DRM from Intel. Intel does support various content protection technologies including DTCP-IP technology, which is publicly offered by a number of companies in the industry to enable protected transport of compressed content within a home network.

Many Intel products today support several existing copy protection or content protection technologies. These include support today for things like Macrovision and DTCP-IP, and in the second half of 2005, Intel will deliver an updated graphics driver that will also support additional content protection technologies including COPP, HDCP, CGMS-A, and others. DTCP-IP technology, which is publicly offered by a number of companies in the industry, enables protected transport of compressed content within a home network. While Intel continues to work with the industry to support other content protection technologies, we have not added any unannounced DRM technologies in either the Pentium D processor or the Intel 945 Express Chipset family.

 

[xonik]

The key word is "unannounced." People were accusing Intel of sneaking in undeclared chip-based protection systems, but Intel has denied this allegation.

 

[cell_491]

The key word is "unannounced." People were accusing Intel of sneaking in undeclared chip-based protection systems, but Intel has denied this allegation.

so they said they didnt put DRM in their new chipsets which automagically means they did...WTF. So what your saying is that since they didnt put in any unannounced DRM features that they did put in some announced DRM features its just that they havent announced them yet which of course would make their original statement correct...WTF

 

[ryanrule]

so they said they didnt put DRM in their new chipsets which automagically means they did...WTF. So what your saying is that since they didnt put in any unannounced DRM features that they did put in some announced DRM features its just that they havent announced them yet which of course would make their original statement correct...WTF

 

[mastercheeze]

Ok two points:

1. Why does this have to be about who "loses" and who "teh wins"? I feel like I'm the winner, since now I'll actually WANT to own a Mac and get that juicy OSX, and be able to run windows emulation at native speeds!

2. Check this out: http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=151736&cid=12730858
Re: DRM - all credit goes to the poster, I had no idea about it until I read his post....its some scary, extremely stupid bullshit if you ask me. But then again, I'm not a security expert.

 

[Dan_D]

Not really, do a little research and you can see the vast majority of Apple's revenue is generated via hardware sales. Apple will lose the "mystique" and the supposed superior quality if they open it up across the board to all hardware. I fully expect Apple to only provide OS X to Apple branded computers and continue supporting Apple-only upgrades. I serioulsy doubt we are going to see a general consumer copy of OS X for Intel on Newegg any time soon, read up and you will see that Apple prides themselves on making the whole "widget" not just the software.

So in summary, since most of Apple's revenue is from hardware, and switching to more generic hardware now closes the real and percieved performance gap, Apple has less reason than ever to give away the family jewels (i.e. the software) to the general population.

According to Steve jobs, Mac OS X will only be supported on Apple Computers and while he can't stop anyone from running Windows on a Apple built PC he said the company will protect Mac OS and keep it from running on normal X86 PC's.

However now, things will become easier to compare. If the Apple OS proves to be faster on the PC side, it will force Microsoft to build a better OS to compete. Which is a GOOD thing. Macs can also be made cheaper and hopefully the days of the Mac user having to spend $100 more for a video card to work in a Mac are over.

Apple will do basically what Microsoft has done with Media Center, its supported on very limited hardware configurations and outside of those specific pieces of hardware you'll have rought times trying to use it. They say not at all for now, but who knows? That could change.

What I like here also is that this BS about the G5 being x2 as fast as a Pentium 4 is OVER.

Also on that subject I read a great article on Anandtech about the G5 architecture vs. the world and found that it pretty muched blew that statement out of the water anyway. Not to say the G5 can't perform, because it can. Needless to say the Mac Zealots have finally been given what they deserve. Their blissfully ignorant "Apple superiority" comments can now be SHUT DOWN. Most of the Mac users I've met are a bunch of Volkswagen driving hippies. Which piss me off. Apple users are collectively crying right now I am sure. I doubt most of them see the potential value and opportunity here for Apple.

Really though I'd like to see Apple pave the way for some real competition on the Operating system front to Microsoft. Its about time there was another heavy player in the field. Who knows, Apple could eventually quit selling hardware altogether or just allow the OS to be run on anything. That would chap Microsofts ass and I like that.

This is all entertaining speculation, but one thing I am certain of is that Apple has to handle this situation in JUST the RIGHT WAY or it could be the nail in the coffin for them.

*DISCLAIMER: While most of the Mac users that Sir-Fragalot has met are in fact homosexual, Volkswagen driving hippies, that does NOT mean that all are in fact, homosexual, Volkswagen hippies. Please do not flame Sir-Fragalot for his sharing of his own personal experiences as they are not important to anyone. Least of all YOU.

*DISCLAIMER 2: Sir-Fragalot bases his homosexual, Volkswagen driving hippy comments on the fact that he works at an art school, full of homosexual, Volkswagen driving hippies and works on both PC's and Macs in IT support.

 

[pxc]

2. Check this out: http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=151736&cid=12730858
Re: DRM - all credit goes to the poster, I had no idea about it until I read his post....its some scary, extremely stupid bullshit if you ask me. But then again, I'm not a security expert.

That /. post is 1/2 truth and half paranoid nonsense.

NGSCB contains interfaces and none of it is mandatory... any more than WMA DRM or DVD CSS is mandatory. There are alternative formats and if the application doesn't use the DRM interfaces, it doesn't affect you or prevent you from running/viewing/listening to it. It is not going to be something used by everything like that poster implied, most of all because it doesn't apply to many applications.

And your other point: Apple wins because they are no longer tied to an unreliable CPU source. Who cares about the rest.

 

[Dan_D]

That /. post is 1/2 truth and half paranoid nonsense.

NGSCB contains interfaces and none of it is mandatory... any more than WMA DRM or DVD CSS is mandatory. There are alternative formats and if the application doesn't use the DRM interfaces, it doesn't affect you or prevent you from running/viewing/listening to it. It is not going to be something used by everything like that poster implied, most of all because it doesn't apply to many applications.

And your other point: Apple wins because they are no longer tied to an unreliable CPU source. Who cares about the rest.

I read an article that IBM was considering discontinuing the G5 anyway. They don't make enough of them to turn enough of a profit to make it worth doing. They are better off using their R&D elsewhere.

I don't know how much truth there is in that. Its really not a loss for IBM as they've landed alot of contracts manufacturing processors for game consoles.

 

[cell_491]

That /. post is 1/2 truth and half paranoid nonsense.

NGSCB contains interfaces and none of it is mandatory... any more than WMA DRM or DVD CSS is mandatory. There are alternative formats and if the application doesn't use the DRM interfaces, it doesn't affect you or prevent you from running/viewing/listening to it. It is not going to be something used by everything like that poster implied, most of all because it doesn't apply to many applications.

And your other point: Apple wins because they are no longer tied to an unreliable CPU source. Who cares about the rest.

i agree, personally i dont think this will affect either intel or amd very much its just good news for apple

 

[Big Worm]

who the hell is gonna buy an uber expensive apple built computer when they can build there own

So in reality this isnt a big win for intel, if anything its a huge loss for MS

All im saying is that apple's sales for hardware is gonna drop

i agree, personally i dont think this will affect either intel or amd very much its just good news for apple

...

 

[cell_491]

...

...

 

[splinter3k]

According to Steve jobs, Mac OS X will only be supported on Apple Computers and while he can't stop anyone from running Windows on a Apple built PC he said the company will protect Mac OS and keep it from running on normal X86 PC's.

That sounds about right, the last thing Apple wants is for you to be able to buy an eMachine for $399 and slap OS X on it, then benchmark it and post it on the web. Or to deal with overclocked, super-tweaked boxes being benched against their stock configs. It is realy simple math...

1 Copy OS X = $129

1 Loaded PowerMac = at least $2,000

With single digit marketshare revenue is the rule, not the exception.