Intel vs AMD popularity

[EricNS]

Many of us do more than game. I only benchmark to see if the system I just set up is setup correctly. Better? That's way to broad. I do Photo, Video and Audio. Most of the stuff I run runs faster on P4's and no, I don't have $589 for an X2 LOL! Being an Intel user, I have to buy a new motherboard and wanting to get better gaming performance, I have to spend another $269 for an ATI 800XL since I don't have enough for the two 6600GTs I'd like. Cheaper????? No it's not better when a simple 3GHz $210 630 runs Premiere Pro 7 faster than an A64 FX-55. Or when 820 costs less than a 3500+, better? Depends what you run and I plan to run both. Best all around or overall only depends on what you do, all around or overall.

Donnie27

I would say more people are interested in gaming than video/photo/audio work on this forum, and because of this more people on this forum prefer AMD to intel, because for them AMD is currently making the better product. Also, the majority of things that Intel chips are used for, could be done more cost effectively with an AMD processor.

 

[Donnie27]

it was more balanced when Intel released the "b" and "c" line of P4's. I used to be strictly Intel ever since i got a 2.4b 3 years ago and then through the whole 2.4c OC craze. Only last year did i buy a AXP mobile because i was bored and then my first A64 after that when s939 came out. There were a lot of people that had 2.4c's that i don't even see post anymore. Ever since Intel went to s775 the participation in this forum dropped quite a bit from what i've seen.

When i first switched to AMD i felt it kind of awkward posting in that forum since i hung out in the intel one for a couple of years.

Even after the B shipped, the HardOCP poll showed folks here picked AMD 70% to 25% (5% other?) same thing happened in 2004. That was the point.

Remember the Flap Kyle caught for even overclocking the 2.4C and got repeat flames (on other Forums) for doing a 2.8GHz article. AMD fans said things like "That's not Fair", "overclocking doesn't or shouldn't count", "luck of the draw", "not consistant", "SNDS" and etc.. Hell, folks are still tallking about luck of the Draw. I know a bunch of the Sc-775 folks who are enjoying their systems and don't care what's said. I remember them jumpping Kyle for saying, "I'm happy with my P4". It was only replaced when he X2's shipped. I find little reason to touch an AthlonXP=P Many of my buds own BOTH (P4/A64) and use these tools for what they do best. They differ on what they'd use if they could only buy one. We don't get into flame fests or fights because we know what each does best. Then again, forums would be a little dull uh?

Last but not least, I love it that Kyle shows the 2400+ vs the 2.4C at the bottom of current reviews. More times than not, the 2.4C is faster at stock and will out overclock the 2400+ mobile or not=P

Donnie27

 

[Donnie27]

I would say more people are interested in gaming than video/photo/audio work on this forum, and because of this more people on this forum prefer AMD to intel, because for them AMD is currently making the better product. Also, the majority of things that Intel chips are used for, could be done more cost effectively with an AMD processor.

That's why people get called the F word that sounds like Van, or the T word that sounds like scroll. I first bought an Athlon 700 because I did a lot of Audio and Video stuff then as well. Much faster than my P3 550. 5 hours and not being able to touch my computer running at 100% CPU load is why I updated to a 900, then a 1GHz Classics then later a 1GHz Tbird as my bud sold to me cheap so he could upgrade (he went Dual 1GHz P3s). Note, Video and Audio were my favorites then too. My Athlons Multi-task-ed better than my wife's 1GHz or 866MHz P3's.

Why do I bring that up? The old Fan Handbook says, "If my favorite Hardware doesn't have it, or it is not that good at it, it is useless or sucks". In other words, I've always done the same types of things. No, the AMD Fan catch phrase is Games are the only thing that's important simply because its something that it clearly does better than Intel.

Lets see, at one time it was Office Apps as in the K6-2/3, because it got waxed with games. AMD Fan catch phrase then was Games aren't important, just as Intel Fans said they were, Flame Fest errupted. Every other better or worse feature has been done the same way since then. Example, After the X2 launched, Multi-Tasking is now a good thing! It was useless or overated before the X2. 64bit was the most important in the industry, even as very little software or even an OS wasn't on the Market yet. Need I add more? Same thing with Enermax vs Antec, ATI vs nVidia, Maxtor vs WD vs Seagate, Lian-Li vs Cooler Master cases and everything else.

People as whole, At least those folks computers I fixed, know who in the hell AMD is. That's one of AMD's problems. They bought POS Compaqs and Gateways that didn't have working USB or Disabled IRQ steering, that cost them a lot of money to keep running. I use to make good money replacing Rev1 boards with Rev 3 or 4, dammnnnn I miss those days. Gateway lost of 400 million on this and dropped AMD for 4 years. I'm going AMD now because I don't see the same types of problems as I use to.

Donnie27

 

[|Leviathan|]

i'll permit myself and go a little of topic, there no point in all this hard comments, you guys take it as if its something personal just bevcasue your own a certain cpu [out of other millions] yu feel and act as if it is your job to protect that company, this is not the point
the point is in stating and comparing what is the beest performaing cpu in this generation
and to judge a cpu, yes it is according to your own needs, and yes it is to overall and general performance, but it is NOT a matter of the one OR the other, but of the one AND the other

now as regarding to those guys whoe protect their product by stating that they are mature enough not to boast with them, most probably it is only a lame way to hide that sense of guilt for buying the wrong product - typical human behaviour
and for those guys stating that they are 'mature', well as I see it, it is rather immature to accuse person B of being immature, by using his same means ...

back to topic

its just a matter of time . on day intel's on top, the other day AMD is - at least regarding cpu performance because you can't actually put on a blance these companies as far as intel sort of owned the consumer-simple-based-minded-ppl
but again i repeat myself fromprevious post, its just technology and we should not dedicate our effort in offendeing the opposite side, but just appreciate that what both companies are producing and buying the cpu according to our need, and respect other users cpu-usage, and ideas - from either fan side

*but* - an issue not mentioned in this generation battle is heat - amd as far as i know dealt in a rather better way than intel this problem with cpu's running much cooler
and they were the first to go to 90nm process
and another importnat issue is power consumption, again, as far as my knowledge carries - i have read on reviews that both in idle, and under load state - the amds are less power hungry than respective intel models - featuring along better efficency - please correct me if i am wrong

regards

 

[Chris_Morley]

MiniDV = Pentium D
High Definition Uncompressed = Dual Opteron

 

[JSquid]

Have any of you guys bothered to read the AMD's lawsuit?

Link (.pdf)

I think AMD was encouraged after intel got busted using the same predatory business tactics in Japan. If the playing field were leveled and AMD could actually get it's processors on store shelves they would easily rival Intel in sales.

This is really the worst thing in the lawsuit i think- AMD Alleges Intel Compilers Create Slower AMD Code

 

[Donnie27]

*but* - an issue not mentioned in this generation battle is heat - amd as far as i know dealt in a rather better way than intel this problem with cpu's running much cooler
and they were the first to go to 90nm process
and another importnat issue is power consumption, again, as far as my knowledge carries - i have read on reviews that both in idle, regards

No, they weren't, Intel went to 90nm first, sorry. First 13nm TBreads ran hot enough to bake bread as well. Oh yes and Intel was first to 130nm as well. THe first Northwoods were cool as the other side of the pillow. Are you preaching revisionist history? Heat mostly scales with MHz and IPC, Integrated Memory Controller and etc.. saves AMD bacon more than Process magic!

GamePC's results

Many other sites show the same power curve.

Again, be clearer, say P4 and not Intel. Intel also makes the cooler running, much less power using Pentium M as well. You say Intel as if the Pentium M isn't made by Intel LOL! Again, the more facts we come to the message board with, the fewer Flame Fests happen.

Donnie27

 

[lithium726]

i didnt read teh thread, just giving my opinion.

I prefer AMD chips. why? i dont know, ive just always had a prefrence towards them. That being said, i currently own a few Intel rigs. one is a dual p3 and one is my laptop, which is a mobile p3-m. i hate netburst. i always have, i think it was a mistake from day 1. i have an IS7-E that i was playing with for a good while that i am about to sell, it didnt really impress me. Had a 2.4B @ 3.27ghz, and it honestly didnt feel any faster than my old XP, and my a64 outclassed it.

i still respect intel and i would love to get a pentium m notebook, but theyre outta my pricerange at the present moment.

edit:

Oh yes and Intel was first to 130nm as well. THe first Northwoods were cool as the other side of the pillow.

Intel was hte first to 130NM with tualatin, not northwoods, and northwoods were still hot considering what intel was coming from.
http://processorfinder.intel.com/scripts/details.asp?sSpec=SL668&ProcFam=483&PkgType=ALL&SysBusSpd=ALL&CorSpd=ALL
the slowest northwood puts out almost 50w of heat. the fastest tualatin put out 30, and was only 200mhz slower. sorry, but my pillow is much cooler than that.

edit again: yeah, athlon XP's didnt put off that much more heat than their equavalently clocked p4's, and they did much more with those clocks, as we all know.

http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20020821/athlonxp-07.html

the chart shows a t-bred B putting off 65w for 2ghz. guess what a 2.0A puts off? 75w: http://processorfinder.intel.com/scripts/details.asp?sSpec=SL6SP&ProcFam=483&PkgType=ALL&SysBusSpd=ALL&CorSpd=ALL

 

[Donnie27]

using the same predatory business tactics in Japan. If the playing field were leveled and AMD could actually get it's processors on store shelves they would easily rival Intel in sales.

Bad example #2.

1. Japan doesn't have the same laws as the US or the EU.
2. Store shelves is not where AMD is locked out unless the store thinks AMD sucks for other reasons than Processor performance.
3. AMD would give it's left nut to be able to build 25% of the Processors Intel could.
4. Last time I checked, Exclusive Deals weren't against the laws of this Country.
5. It's not Dumpping unless AMD can prove Intel is selling Processors for a loss.
6. Point Blank, AMD is simply looking for extra PR!
7. The EU, the Germans and AMD better clean their own house! The EU and Germans have been bankrolling AMD since contstruction started on Fab 30. Same goes for Fab 36.

AMD should be the ones selling a 1.6GHz X2 at about $250. They're not, Intel is not stopping them from doing this. These kinds of DingBat like greedy moves are the kind of schlock thats hurting AMD. Unlike Fans, the rest of the markets don't agree than every single improvement should be followed by a higher price. Some see the E Rev as a Fix, not an Upgrade. I know IT folks who asked why should they have to pay for it?

Donie27

 

[Donnie27]

i didnt read teh thread, just giving my opinion.

I prefer AMD chips. why? i dont know, ive just always had a prefrence towards them. That being said, i currently own a few Intel rigs. one is a dual p3 and one is my laptop, which is a mobile p3-m. i hate netburst. i always have, i think it was a mistake from day 1. i have an IS7-E that i was playing with for a good while that i am about to sell, it didnt really impress me. Had a 2.4B @ 3.27ghz, and it honestly didnt feel any faster than my old XP, and my a64 outclassed it.

i still respect intel and i would love to get a pentium m notebook, but theyre outta my pricerange at the present moment.

edit:

Intel was hte first to 130NM with tualatin, not northwoods, and northwoods were still hot considering what intel was coming from.
http://processorfinder.intel.com/scripts/details.asp?sSpec=SL668&ProcFam=483&PkgType=ALL&SysBusSpd=ALL&CorSpd=ALL
the slowest northwood puts out almost 50w of heat. the fastest tualatin put out 30, and was only 200mhz slower. sorry, but my pillow is much cooler than that.

edit again: yeah, athlon XP's didnt put off that much more heat than their equavalently clocked p4's, and they did much more with those clocks, as we all know.

http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20020821/athlonxp-07.html

the chart shows a t-bred B putting off 65w for 2ghz. guess what a 2.0A puts off? 75w: http://processorfinder.intel.com/scripts/details.asp?sSpec=SL6SP&ProcFam=483&PkgType=ALL&SysBusSpd=ALL&CorSpd=ALL

Plain and simple, Intel was first to 130nm/13um and 90nm=P My 2GHz Northwood idled at 31C and on the hottest day 44C under load. But it sucked for overclocking, only managed 2.26GHz, sheesh! My Buds ranged from 30 in a good case to 33 in a bad one. Watts used, who the hell cares? 2000+ TBread ran hotter. This was only fixed after AMD added an extra layer.

No we don't all know the AthlonXP did more. Picking chooseing software made it look that way LOL! Tom's and Anand's are pros at it.

Donnie27

 

[Donnie27]

BTW,

I disagree with ED (At overclockers.com) on this, yes he's right until he says "You have no fallback if things don't quite work out"" AMD has the whole EU and the German Government to Fallback on. They (the Germans and the EU) are already too invested in AMD to see them fail. Follow the links? AMD still owes tons of money to these folks. Yes, it is something wrong with this. Intel or no COMPANY should have to compete with Governments, the EU or etc..

AMD invests in Intel accuser.
http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2005/02/24/amd_patriot_investment/

Intel invests in AMD
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=3163

Intel witch hunts lead by the Germans, EU and AMD
http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2001apr/bch20010406005269.htm
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2004/0421euinves.html
http://articles.fool.com/coms2/summary_0268-mft04060822_ITM

The EU and Germans bankrolling AMD.
http://www.ecommercetimes.com/story/32799.html
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9584_22-5154539.html

http://techreport.com/ja.zz?id=38251
""I would like to thank the taxpayers of Germany, Saxony, and the EU for subsidizing cheap chips for us all.""

Well now, is it time to payback all of that money? Last time I checked, Exclusive deals aren't against the law, or did I miss something? Almost every one get's it when it comes to prices and AMD is being laughed at for the most part.

It's not Intel's fault AMD isn't selling a 1.6GHz at or near the price of at least the 3GHz Pentium model!

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/VirtualPressRoom/0,,51_104_609,00.html

Low yields plus folks wanting ROI now, might be the cause of this crap. Maybe we have them doing this now, so when the EU and Germans pull the same thing in the EU next year, folks will not see it as being so, sleezy! Smokescreen?

Posted by me on another thread and copied here. Folks thought I was making up the links between AMD + the Germans + the EU. Get real? If they have eough pull to AXE AMD's Chartered deal, does that still make AMD an American company or MultiNational?

Donnie27

 

[sakurakana1003]

My oldest surving rig is an Athlon XP 2200+, was originally a Thunderbird 1.2GI think but I managed to kill it with some heavy tweaking. Then the next rig I built was with an Intel P4 3.0C, it was just clearly a better CPU at the time of purchase. And now my current rig sports an X2 4400+, which, after much researching, appears to be the superior product compared to Intel's dual-core offerings. My next build might very well be another Intel system, I don't stick to one brand, whoever's doing the best at my time of purchase will get my money.

With that being said, my P4 3.0C is still a very fine processor in my eyes, if it's not for the whole PCI-E thing I don't think I would have ditched it so soon.

EDIT: Just finished reading the whole thread, I don't know if it's true or not but if Intel's popularity fell since they introduced LGA775 then I have to agree. Because IN MY OPINION, Intel really didn't offer any true upgrades/breakthroughs since the Northwood cores, which is why I haven't upgraded for two entire years after purchasing my 3.0C, something that's quite rare for me. They introduced a new socket, more cache and bump the speed a little, but nothing revolutionary enough to make me feel like my 3.0C was getting old and needed to be changed. I can't say whether Intel will get my money again (I seem to go in a cycle, Intel->AMD->Intel->AMD, lol) next time, but right now I still haven't seen anything extraordinary from them yet.

 

[lithium726]

No we don't all know the AthlonXP did more. Picking chooseing software made it look that way LOL! Tom's and Anand's are pros at it.

oh please. per clock cycle, athlon xp is a stronger performer. period.

how hot the chips run depends entirely on cooling. my XP at 2.45 tops out at like, 47C. i have yet to see my 2.4B at 3.2 do that with the same cooler. :rollseyes:

the p4 is at 1.7v. the XP is at 1.875.

 

[robberbaron]

No we don't all know the AthlonXP did more. Picking chooseing software made it look that way LOL! Tom's and Anand's are pros at it.

Donnie27

If you think a 2.0ghz P4 did as much per clock as a 2.0ghz K7, then you're more hopeless than I had thought.

oh please. per clock cycle, athlon xp is a stronger performer. period.

how hot the chips run depends entirely on cooling. my XP at 2.45 tops out at like, 47C. i have yet to see my 2.4B at 3.2 do that with the same cooler. :rollseyes:

the p4 is at 1.7v. the XP is at 1.875.

Well the Northwoods did run fairly cool. S478 prescott's however were monsters. They idled at about 55C on the stock intel cooler (I would know... I built a system with a retail 2.8E today for a customer.)

775 prescotts seem to run quite a bit cooler though.

 

[lithium726]

Well the Northwoods did run fairly cool. S478 prescott's however were monsters. They idled at about 55C on the stock intel cooler (I would know... I built a system with a retail 2.8E today for a customer.)

i was trying to put down his "omg the northwoods are so cool while the tbreds were hot as hell!" with pure numbers.

northwoods were cool compared to willamette and prescott, even palomino. not compared to tbreds and bartons.

 

[Mav451]

That's not what I remember. When I bought my 2.6C for $211 shipped, the 2600+ was $210 from Newegg.com. My bud paid $467 for his 3200+ a month earlier. These prices were from June 2003. $1 cheaper. My Abit IC7-G i875 was $162 while my Bud's Abit nForce 1 if I remember was $149, WOW, a whole $14 saved, we had the same RAM. Then mine kicked the shit out of his in almost everything we tested. 13 out 14 of my Bud's and folks I know, 2.6C's did 3.26GHz or better with overclocks, was faster at stock speed as well. AthlonXP's didn't overclock worth a Fart until folks both the more expensive Mobile models. They still got bitch slapped then.

For folks who are still talking about AMD is cheaper means some folks can't count=P Price looks good performance wise when you're talking about gaming. They look WAYYYYY overpriced when you compare most other software.

Donnie27

1) Price is much lower.

This honestly makes me laugh. Why would anyone buy the 2600+ for $200+, when for $120 you could get the 2100+ AIUHB thatd easily overclocked PAST 2600+ levels?

I got my A7N8X(rev1.06) for $115.

2) Unlocked multiplier. Up AND down (sigh those were the days). This means if your memory sucks, push up the multiplier to hit your desired clock speed. Hitting 2.3-2.4Ghz was the norm. I got 2.23Ghz out of that chip, on craptacular Crucial PC2700. If only I had my SLK800 back then

If you had a 1700+ DLT3C...oh man, some people were already hitting 2.4GHz outta the box. And if i recall, the 1700+ was what, $70-80?

Other software? I honestly get tired looking at "Sysmark2004" or the infamous "BAPco" benchmark >> what a load of Intel skewed junk. Seeing magazines, even today that put out that junk. "Well Intel wins in benchmark2005 suite." Then they disregard the large discrepancies in other areas, yes gaming for AMD obviously.

 

[Mav451]

If you think a 2.0ghz P4 did as much per clock as a 2.0ghz K7, then you're more hopeless than I had thought.

Well the Northwoods did run fairly cool. S478 prescott's however were monsters. They idled at about 55C on the stock intel cooler (I would know... I built a system with a retail 2.8E today for a customer.)

775 prescotts seem to run quite a bit cooler though.

My OCed Tbred back then idled @ 36C's. My friends 3.0C, which i think is about the same as a 3200+, idled at 36C's. When you look it that way, once the clock speed started exceeding 3.2Ghz, even Northwoods were getting pretty hot. Plus, my XP rarely jumps that much from idle to load like the Northwoods. Yeah, they idle low, but when you game, I've seen him hit 50-52C's. My XP, on the other hand, went from 36C to 45C. I'll take that over a twice the delta in temps.

My friend absolutely hated AMD, saying they were overclocking !!!!!!s. Nowadays, he is on his FX-53 system, playing Source on his gargantuan 23" ACD. Lol.

 

[Shane]

Personally I dont care who is better amd or intel, but I can tell you this I wouldnt even look at a AMD system til lately when they came out with the x2. Amd just plain feels and is slow in any envirement other than gameing. Now of course the x2 has eliminated these issues and in my opinion amd has the superior chip at the moment. Price wise you can build amd/intel system with same specs within 50.00 bucks of each other so dont be fooled by someone saying amd is cheaper to build; just isnt true. And for the amount of users viewing more amd than intel is because like another member said that this is a enthusiast site and full of rebels lol.

 

[Mav451]

Personally I dont care who is better amd or intel, but I can tell you this I wouldnt even look at a AMD system til lately when they came out with the x2. Amd just plain feels and is slow in any envirement other than gameing. Now of course the x2 has eliminated these issues and in my opinion amd has the superior chip at the moment. Price wise you can build amd/intel system with same specs within 50.00 bucks of each other so dont be fooled by someone saying amd is cheaper to build; just isnt true. And for the amount of users viewing more amd than intel is because like another member said that this is a enthusiast site and full of rebels lol.

Well if you think so, fine. My friend who bought the 3.0C for full price was easily over $400. My TBred + Mobo was maybe $230. And with the overclock I got on it, I would say it is roughly equal to a 3.0C (2.23Ghz @ 195 FSB, with shitty RAM timings). I still have $170 left to spend on a better video card, or more RAM or more HD or whatever. When you are in college, $170 is nothing to sneeze at.

Of course now, the A64 3200+ (unlike the XP) gives much better performance in comparison to the P4, but it does cost much more. Hence, the price difference is hardly as exaggerated as it used to be, but AMD is making alot more per chip now.

 

[Dillusion]

Many of us do more than game. I only benchmark to see if the system I just set up is setup correctly. Better? That's way to broad. I do Photo, Video and Audio. Most of the stuff I run runs faster on P4's and no, I don't have $589 for an X2 LOL! Being an Intel user, I have to buy a new motherboard and wanting to get better gaming performance, I have to spend another $269 for an ATI 800XL since I don't have enough for the two 6600GTs I'd like. Cheaper????? No it's not better when a simple 3GHz $210 630 runs Premiere Pro 7 faster than an A64 FX-55. Or when 820 costs less than a 3500+, better? Depends what you run and I plan to run both. Best all around or overall only depends on what you do, all around or overall.

Donnie27

Exactly, just because a processor is more apt to run gaming applications better does not make it to all around better processor, EircNS. Point proven.

 

[Donnie27]

oh please. per clock cycle, athlon xp is a stronger performer. period.

how hot the chips run depends entirely on cooling. my XP at 2.45 tops out at like, 47C. i have yet to see my 2.4B at 3.2 do that with the same cooler. :rollseyes:

the p4 is at 1.7v. the XP is at 1.875.

Oh please Part two, with all due respect that's AMD lover BS! So what were folks supposed to do? Say; Oh wait, I can only get a 2.2GHz AthlonXP so I must limit myself to only a 2.2GHZ P4? Intel traded off IPC to get MHz to get more done. So we're supposed take that away, that'd be foolish. IPC held AMD's speed down, too bad. Their PRICE RATES spoke volumes. Most Websites said the something like; "The 3200+ AthlonXP performs closer to a 2.8GHz Northwood". Even sites friendly to AMD said as much like Ace's, MaxPC, Tech-Report, Lost Circuits and even here. So that made the Model number look like BS as well.

I don't know why you can't run your P4's cooler but the temps you're complainning about is kind of Moot. Mine kicked the crap out my Bud's overclock 2600+ Mobile at 2.52GHz and that was only at 3.26GHz, not the talked about 1GHz more speed needed LOL! The single channel of RAM choked the hell out of it.

Donnie27

 

[Donnie27]

If you think a 2.0ghz P4 did as much per clock as a 2.0ghz K7, then you're more hopeless than I had thought.

If you believe I'd have to limit myself to a 2GHz P4 because if that was the fastest AMD made, you're more hopeless than I thought. The point was, Intel didn't have to run clock for clock. WGAF (Who gives a F#%$) when AMD sold by the Model Numer 3200+ was Price Rated to Match 3.2GHz Northwood C, it got bitchslapped many more times than not.

Well the Northwoods did run fairly cool. S478 prescott's however were monsters. They idled at about 55C on the stock intel cooler (I would know... I built a system with a retail 2.8E today for a customer.)

I agree, that's why I never bought a Sc-478 Prescott. But we were talking about Northwoods. With a Zalman 7K Cu, mine maxes out a 52C@3.32GHz. Easy as hell for me to live with. For 2 years mine ran at 3.26GHz only recently set it back to stock.

775 prescotts seem to run quite a bit cooler though.

I have an extra GB of RAM lieing around, now if Intel (or the board makers) did an i945 and 955 with DDR1, I might given it a shot, they didn't so hey! Athlon64 for me. I don't want AGP and ICH5 and 6. I wanted at least ICH-7, PCI-E and DDR1, that didn't happen so I'm going where I can get the next best thing, AMD. Just because I seem to get into it with AMD Fans, doesn't mean I'll not buy AMD's products when it suits me. My last 15 systems are 9 AMD and 6 Intel. Sorry though, I never liked the AthlonXP just as some here never liked Netburst.

Donnie27

 

[Mav451]

Oh please Part two, with all due respect that's AMD lover BS! So what were folks supposed to do? Say; Oh wait, I can only get a 2.2GHz AthlonXP so I must limit myself to only a 2.2GHZ P4? Intel traded off IPC to get MHz to get more done. So we're supposed take that away, that'd be foolish. IPC held AMD's speed down, too bad. Their PRICE RATES spoke volumes. Most Websites said the something like; "The 3200+ AthlonXP performs closer to a 2.8GHz Northwood". Even sites friendly to AMD said as much like Ace's, MaxPC, Tech-Report, Lost Circuits and even here. So that made the Model number look like BS as well.

I don't know why you can't run your P4's cooler but the temps you're complainning about is kind of Moot. Mine kicked the crap out my Bud's overclock 2600+ Mobile at 2.52GHz and that was only at 3.26GHz, not the talked about 1GHz more speed needed LOL! The single channel of RAM choked the hell out of it.

Donnie27

Well if you chose a SSE-2 heavy, high memory bandwidth requiring app, sure, even a stock 3.0C (or hell a 2.8C) would beat a majority of Athlon XPs. But I hardly ever touch those apps. High-end pro apps, unless you're a CG Artist--hardly applies to anyone of us here.

But like I've said before, I really feel sorry for anyone who paid good money for XP chips higher than 2100+ (or 2400/2500 for the mobiles). Getting an unlocked multiplier for < $120, or <$80 (for the 1700+, that's what I call a good deal.

And for what I use it for, it performs better, for less money than the P4 alternative.

*Btw...I'm interested in what application your 3.26P4 beat your friends 2.52Ghz XP at?
If it is a high-end pro app, I wouldn't be suprised though, but I'm interested in the numbers. I also wonder if your friend went multiplier-crazy w/o increasing the FSB in his overclock...

 

[Mav451]

If you believe I'd have to limit myself to a 2GHz P4 because if that was the fastest AMD made, you're more hopeless than I thought. The point was, Intel didn't have to run clock for clock. WGAF (Who gives a F#%$) when AMD sold by the Model Numer 3200+ was Price Rated to Match 3.2GHz Northwood C, it got bitchslapped many more times than not.

You have no idea how much my roommate (3.0C P4; Intel lover until recently converted to A64) was ridiculing me when that "Paper Tiger" review came out.

 

[Donnie27]

Well if you chose a SSE-2 heavy, high memory bandwidth requiring app, sure, even a stock 3.0C (or hell a 2.8C) would beat a majority of Athlon XPs. But I hardly ever touch those apps. High-end pro apps, unless you're a CG Artist--hardly applies to anyone of us here.

Yes, but all you have to do look at any of [H]ardOCP's reviews? I love that they include the retro rigs at the bottom of the Graphs. Those are 2400 or 2600+ vs. a 2.4C. Most of the time the P4's waxes their asses at stock speed and then kills them when BOTH are overclocked.

But like I've said before, I really feel sorry for anyone who paid good money for XP chips higher than 2100+ (or 2400/2500 for the mobiles). Getting an unlocked multiplier for < $120, or <$80 (for the 1700+, that's what I call a good deal.

I can see that and yes that a good point. But we still have folks mixing a matching coparing old stuff to knew and etc.. I never liked the AthlonXP, their Platforms (until maybe a year ago) and etc.. A64 is a different story but there no damned way I think they're cheap.

Back on topic. Never mind all of that. The point was when everybody and even old ladies were overclocking the hell out of the sweetassed P4C's this form favored AMD by 70%

And for what I use it for, it performs better, for less money than the P4 alternative.

No, it doesn't! unless you're talking Games. What it's used for to me is Multi-Media, same way I used my Athlons when I had them. I do more than just constantly game.

*Btw...I'm interested in what application your 3.26P4 beat your friends 2.52Ghz XP at? If it is a high-end pro app, I wouldn't be suprised though, but I'm interested in the numbers. I also wonder if your friend went multiplier-crazy w/o increasing the FSB in his overclock...

Mostly Mutli-Media by also with Commanche, X2, Far Cry (with fraps installed) and a couple of other games. Of course I loose Doom3 and UT2K4. I don't have the numbers. I wish this site would do a review of Retro budget hardware. Many folks would be very surprised. I'd love to get my bud's ATI 800XL AGP back in my system LOL! It impressed me more than any Intel or AMD processor.

Donnie27

 

[Donnie27]

You have no idea how much my roommate (3.0C P4; Intel lover until recently converted to A64) was ridiculing me when that "Paper Tiger" review came out.

I don't care either HEHEHEHE! Please note, I'm getting a 3200+ Athlon64. Also note that I said AthlonXP, NOT Athlon64.

Donnie27

 

[Donnie27]

i was trying to put down his "omg the northwoods are so cool while the tbreds were hot as hell!" with pure numbers.

northwoods were cool compared to willamette and prescott, even palomino. not compared to tbreds and bartons.

Now this is a real joke, link me to anything where I said "omg" anything LOL! Sheesh, Fans.

The first TBread was hotter than my 2GHz Northwood, WTF are you talking about? OMG, a FAN!

Donnie27

 

[robberbaron]

I have an extra GB of RAM lieing around, now if Intel (or the board makers) did an i945 and 955 with DDR1, I might given it a shot, they didn't so hey! Athlon64 for me. I don't want AGP and ICH5 and 6. I wanted at least ICH-7, PCI-E and DDR1, that didn't happen so I'm going where I can get the next best thing, AMD. Just because I seem to get into it with AMD Fans, doesn't mean I'll not buy AMD's products when it suits me. My last 15 systems are 9 AMD and 6 Intel. Sorry though, I never liked the AthlonXP just as some here never liked Netburst.

Donnie27

Same here. Given the choice, a P4 would be much better for my needs than an Athlon XP. However, the dualcore K8 now does everything I need it to do, so I'm happy.

That's the thing. As long as we're happy, WGAF?

 

[lithium726]

Oh please Part two, with all due respect that's AMD lover BS! So what were folks supposed to do? Say; Oh wait, I can only get a 2.2GHz AthlonXP so I must limit myself to only a 2.2GHZ P4?

ugh. i was comparing mhz to heat output. it is much the same. stop putting words in my mouth. i was mearly pointing out that tbreds were NOT MUCH HOTTER THAN NORTHWOODS! jesus fucking christ, you would think someone could understand that, but they start putting words in my mouth about how "oh! i can only use a 2.2ghz p4 now! youre an idiot!"

The first TBread was hotter than my 2GHz Northwood, WTF are you talking about? OMG, a FAN!

with a different cooler. your logic sucks.

im out of this thread, cuase no matter what anyone says, donnie27 never listens, and thinks that the p4 is the best fucking thing to ever hit the mainstream market. whatever.

 

[MiXdNuTs]

Yeah, any mission critical system is running an Intel of some way shape or form.

Primarily from a buisness aspect.

UH......I work at a large ISP and all of our mission critical systems are Opteron based systems. (think DNS) Most of the websites that we host for our business customers are also Opteron based. Huge cost savings and much better performance and we were able to ease off the thermostat in most of the server rooms.

 

[Donnie27]

ugh. i was comparing mhz to heat output. it is much the same. stop putting words in my mouth. i was mearly pointing out that tbreds were NOT MUCH HOTTER THAN NORTHWOODS! jesus fucking christ, you would think someone could understand that, but they start putting words in my mouth about how "oh! i can only use a 2.2ghz p4 now! youre an idiot!"

with a different cooler. your logic sucks.

im out of this thread, cuase no matter what anyone says, donnie27 never listens, and thinks that the p4 is the best fucking thing to ever hit the mainstream market. whatever.

That's BS, you're putting words into mine. I never said "omg!" about any friggen thing. But that you were saying I did. Heat Output scales with MHz for AMD and Intel. I even gave a link showing that power draw as well. Leave Jesus out of your foul mouth. I wan't talking about that anyway. I called you a Fan because to AMD Fans, Intel NEVER had any kind of a lead on AMD. Even as most of the market were saying otherwise.

Both Northwood and Tualatin were on the market before the first hot Tbreads BTW. I don't think the P4 was the best, I just disagree that it sucks as bad as you said it does. This doesn't even leave the Topic of this thread as Folks like you are the reason this forum was 70% in favor of AMD even as Intel was kicking their asses. If I thought the P4s were all that, I'd not be shopping for a 3200+ LOL! I also wouldn't make myself look silly by basing my views of Netburst on the Northwood B like you are. Most folks who knew skipped B bought Northwood C. Or they dumpped the B and went with C. Just as AMD owners dropped TBird and Pally for Barton.

Donnie27

 

[Donnie27]

Same here. Given the choice, a P4 would be much better for my needs than an Athlon XP. However, the dualcore K8 now does everything I need it to do, so I'm happy.

That's the thing. As long as we're happy, WGAF?

I too like the Dual Core K8, I just think the price sucks! Not just it, but all of them costing more than $350.

The question was answered a long time ago. Why is AMD more popular. The Lithium dewd shows why. To AMD Fans, not to be confused with AMD Users, buyers and etc..., Intel has NEVER had any advantage over AMD and NO reason for Intel to be popular in their eyes at all. Yet he makes crazy comments about me saying how great the P4 is. I saw them say things like yeah, my Tbread got whacked but I'll wait for Barton, I just can't stand buying anything from Intel. Wait for Hammer for in 14 months from now and etc... So there are way more AMD visitors because there are way more AMD Fans posting on message boards. Hell, even the Intel side of the forum is not safe from them.

I'm buying an AMD Processor, yet, count how many times I've posted on the AMD side of the forum? Sorry, I have my own XP results, they sucked, so I'm supposed to trust people who say they don't?

Donnie27

 

[Shane]

Your friend is ignorant why buy a high step 3.0c when he could of purchased a 2.4c and got higher numbers with good ram. Oh well live an learn for you and your ignorant friend. And as I stated in above reply until the x2 amd sucked period just good at gameing only didnt care for them. The amd x2 is very nice and is what I made my new system with.

 

[zappa86]

I though amd was better so I got a new amd64 but my older system beats it in 3dmark. I dont understand. With all the argument I figured I would show my system specs.

Old Rig:
Pentium 2.8ghz prescott
asus p4c800-e (intel 875)
2x 512mb corsairxms 2-3-3-6
x800xt all in wonder
74gb raptor
mobo internal sound.
3dmark: 5400

New Rig:
AMD64 3200+ (winchester)
asus a8n-sli deluxe (nf4)
2x512mb corsairxms 2-2-2-5
asus 6800gt
74gb raptor
mobo internal sound.
3dmark: 4700

The AMD rig is new, got it in march. The other one has parts that are almost two years old (except for the new x800xt AIW). I dont know what to believe, by this mark shows the intel one is better. (perhaps I messed up on configuring windows or something for the new rig, casue I think that score is too low).

 

[Scali]

Well, it IS 3DMark ofcourse... so it could be that the X800XT makes the difference over the 6800GT.
Try swapping the cards around and see what results you get then. I wouldn't be surprised if that made the AMD system faster.

 

[Elios]

Bad example #2.

1. Japan doesn't have the same laws as the US or the EU.
2. Store shelves is not where AMD is locked out unless the store thinks AMD sucks for other reasons than Processor performance.
3. AMD would give it's left nut to be able to build 25% of the Processors Intel could.
4. Last time I checked, Exclusive Deals weren't against the laws of this Country.
5. It's not Dumpping unless AMD can prove Intel is selling Processors for a loss.
6. Point Blank, AMD is simply looking for extra PR!
7. The EU, the Germans and AMD better clean their own house! The EU and Germans have been bankrolling AMD since contstruction started on Fab 30. Same goes for Fab 36.

AMD should be the ones selling a 1.6GHz X2 at about $250. They're not, Intel is not stopping them from doing this. These kinds of DingBat like greedy moves are the kind of schlock thats hurting AMD. Unlike Fans, the rest of the markets don't agree than every single improvement should be followed by a higher price. Some see the E Rev as a Fix, not an Upgrade. I know IT folks who asked why should they have to pay for it?

Donie27

you didnt read the laysuit did you stores are under the same pressure as the OEMs go back and read the bit about marketing in the PDF

 

[Scali]

Well, then I guess you didn't hear about Dixons calling the AMD lawsuit slander and is counter-suing AMD
Dixons was one of the retail outlets that was accused by AMD of taking part in the alleged Intel contracts to keep the percentage of AMD-systems low.
Dixons claims they are basing their percentages purely on demand and sales-figures. The demand simply isn't there, so Intel doesn't even need a contract.

 

[Elios]

Well, then I guess you didn't hear about Dixons calling the AMD lawsuit slander and is counter-suing AMD
Dixons was one of the retail outlets that was accused by AMD of taking part in the alleged Intel contracts to keep the percentage of AMD-systems low.
Dixons claims they are basing their percentages purely on demand and sales-figures. The demand simply isn't there, so Intel doesn't even need a contract.

ok one store i have never even heard of but what about BestBuy, Office Depo, Circuit City, Frys, and CompUSA?

my guess is Dixons is a small chain what part of the US are thay in any way?
and i dont even think thay were named in the suit any way if im worng tell me the page number in the PDF i have it sitting here in on my desktop

 

[Scali]

Haha "What part of the US".
Ever heard of the concept 'world'?

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/business/legal/0,39020651,39207118,00.htm

Dixons is a very big retailer from the UK, operating throughout Europe.
Just because you're a Yank and never heard of them, doesn't mean that AMD has any right to falsely accuse them.

 

[Elios]

Haha "What part of the US".
Ever heard of the concept 'world'?

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/business/legal/0,39020651,39207118,00.htm

Dixons is a very big retailer from the UK, operating throughout Europe.
Just because you're a Yank and never heard of them, doesn't mean that AMD has any right to falsely accuse them.

as i said i didnt see them named in the PDF if im wrong tell me were in the fileing i can find it?

i dont think AMD went out of there way to name them i did see Bestbuy, Office Depo, and Circuit City said by name in the PDF show me were AMD names Dixons