Intel Optane Memory Question

Discussion in 'SSDs & Data Storage' started by SeegsElite, Oct 21, 2018.

  1. SeegsElite

    SeegsElite [H]ard|Gawd

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    I have an Asus X99 Deluxe motherboard. The M.2 port supports 4 PCIe lane NVMe drives. I was looking to add a 16GB Optane memory module to my Samsung 840 EVO SSD to gain the lower latency Optane offers.

    The issue is that when I try and install the Optane memory driver I get an error stating that my motherboard doesn't have an Intel 200 series chipset required to install the driver. However, my X99 Deluxe does support Intel Rapid Storage Technology (RST) inside the BiOS.

    My question is; is there something specific to the Intel 200 series and newer chipsets and this driver that optimizes the memory module better than just setting up the Optane memory module in RAID with my Samsung SSD through the RST sotware in my X99 Deluxe's BiOS? Will I get the same low latency performance that Optane offers if I set it up this way instead of through the normal driver and 200 series chipset? I don't want to waste my time if not and also I will need to format my OS drive to set things up in RAID and want to avoid doing that if I'm not going to get the full benefits.
     
  2. likeman

    likeman Gawd

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    Is there any specific reason why you need lower latency than what the Samsung 840 Evo already offers (it's not really going to gain you anything)

    Move to an NVME ssd would be better improvement (or even a sata 850/860 pro)
     
  3. Olga-SAN

    Olga-SAN Limp Gawd

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    such an upgrade rarely makes any sense - windows storage stack was written in 80s or 90s at best so it can't handle low latency storage well
     
  4. likeman

    likeman Gawd

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    To make it simpler optane cache drives are meant to complement a HDD not a ssd

    There is really no point in trying to use it if you already have a ssd

    Buy a 850/860 pro or NVME SSD if you want something faster (latency wise)
     
  5. silk186

    silk186 [H]ard|Gawd

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    When does windows plan to address this?
     
  6. SeegsElite

    SeegsElite [H]ard|Gawd

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    According to PCPer not even a 960/970 Evo NVMe is remotely close to the latency that Optane gives. If anyone can answer my actual question and not give advice on what else to buy that would be great.

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    Last edited: Oct 21, 2018
  7. Denpepe

    Denpepe Gawd

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    I don't realy see how you could set this up via a raid? If you do raid 0 you would en up with 2 16GB drives that split up the data to one fast drive and one slower drive or am I missing something?

    Also the point of the optane part is to cache frequent used data to get to that faster, so you will only see benefit from what data it has cached (if you would even notice the miniscule difference) which I guess would be usefull if you use mostly the same data all the time.

    Now getting a full blown optane drive I could see a better use case then what you want to try.
     
  8. Mchart

    Mchart 2[H]4U

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    Short answer - Yes. X99 doesn't support it, and there is a hardware gap meaning we can't use Optane. It's not just a driver thing, it's how the chipset architecture is built to support those low latencies that optane supports.
     
  9. SeegsElite

    SeegsElite [H]ard|Gawd

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    Thank you!
     
  10. SeegsElite

    SeegsElite [H]ard|Gawd

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    They call it RAID in BiOS, but it's setup as a caching drive like any RST setup.
     
  11. daglesj

    daglesj [H]ardness Supreme

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    Those 16/32GB Optane sticks may have good latency but they suck big time in raw data moving ability.

    Decidedly uneven hardware performance wise.
     
  12. likeman

    likeman Gawd

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    still not sure why you want to do this as latency of the say a samsung NVME drives are under 1ms (actually in under 100 us)

    if you don't want the drive to slow down use PRO samsung drives as they use MLC and don't use SLC cache,,so they stay same speed full or empty and any type of amount of writes, where as TLC based SSDs (samsung EVO or other SSDs that don't specify that they use MLC) after 3-10 minutes slow down as they burn out the SLC cache and have to use TLC to save the data you have to leave them alone for about 5-10 minutes to empty the SLC cache

    why do you need 20 us of latency on past read files

    you can use Optane SSD you just need to buy some software to do it (PrimoCache), but its really pointless unless you need it for a extreme specific task

    you be better off with more ram say 32GB ram as the second read will come from the cache in the ram which is faster than Optane/SSD
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
  13. daglesj

    daglesj [H]ardness Supreme

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    I think this is a classic example of the idea sounding greater than the actual reality.


    "If I added a rocket motor to the back of my truck..."
     
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  14. Brahmzy

    Brahmzy [H]ardness Supreme

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    Just get a 900p/905p and be done. Quit screwing around.
     
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  15. SvenBent

    SvenBent 2[H]4U

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    A lot of people actually likes screwing around with hardware.
     
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  16. Brahmzy

    Brahmzy [H]ardness Supreme

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    Yeah, me too, but only if the end result will be worth the screw around.
     
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  17. brentsg

    brentsg [H]ard|Gawd

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    That's like 100% in the opposite direction.

    The small Optane sticks are about making the most of a cheap solution. The large Optane drives are about getting the best performance at any cost.
     
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  18. SvenBent

    SvenBent 2[H]4U

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    Worth is an individually thing.
    Learning new stuff from archiving a worse results can be worth it to somebody.
    Yuo are just applying you own bias to others instead of helping ppl.

    For some ppl the tinkering itself is what is the worth
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2018
  19. Brahmzy

    Brahmzy [H]ardness Supreme

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    ^^ Huh? Nonsense. If performance is the goal, again, buy a 905p and be done with it. That’s what I did. It was worth it
     
  20. daglesj

    daglesj [H]ardness Supreme

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    Am about to remove the 16GB Optane from the rig I have with one. Just better with a 500GB 970 EVO I got for £89 in the slot than that little dud. The Optane was just being used as a Pagefile drive but its debatable usefulness has been surpassed. It only cost me £18 new so no big deal.
     
  21. SvenBent

    SvenBent 2[H]4U

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    Who said the performance is the goal of "Screwing around"
    I guess you don't understand the value in experimentation and learning ?

    Nevertheless you post did in no way adress the question OP had.
    You are just trying to make people go by the same goals as you
     
  22. daglesj

    daglesj [H]ardness Supreme

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    Well sometimes here it's like reading -

    "Hey guys I've been thinking of shooting myself in the foot as I think it will feel really good to do it! What do you reckon?"

    Then you read several replies of "Look don't do it as I tried it and it hurt like hell! It's a stupid thing to do!"

    Then you see a reply from the original guy saying "Well I still think it will feel great cos that's what I believe, so here goes!"

    Then you see several replies from folks saying "Look if this guy thinks it will feel great then that's fine! We at HardOCP don't need folks with experience of just this subject telling us it ain't worth shooting ourselves in the foot! Cos that's what this forum is all about!"



    No this forum is about doing worthwhile stuff. Not wasting time and money. If there is plenty of evidence out there that states it won't do anything noticeable just don't do it. Find something else.
     
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  23. mwroobel

    mwroobel [H]ardness Supreme

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    You forgot about the reply that says if you are going to do it then you might as well be [H] and use a Smith & Wesson 500 with an 8” barrel (and to use the 500gr ammo and not pussy out with the 300gr) to fully appreciate the experience! ;) j/k
     
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  24. brentsg

    brentsg [H]ard|Gawd

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    Except most of the critical responses hadn’t done it. They just did something else entirely.
     
  25. daglesj

    daglesj [H]ardness Supreme

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    And tape a stick of Optane to it for lower latency.
     
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  26. likeman

    likeman Gawd

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    these small Optane things are for HDDs not SSDs

    if you have a SSD you gain really nothing doing SSD + small Optane cache (as the software part of Optane cache adds latency that defeats the point of Optane unless it was paired with a HDD then it makes perfect sense)

    if you want low latency get the 900p/905p or Samsung 970 Pro NVME drives (even the 970 EVO is not bad but does use SLC cache so can slow down on writes if your writing lots of data, the PRO drives use MLC so all space can be written to with no penalty as they dont use SLC cache)
     
  27. Nokturnal

    Nokturnal [H]Lite

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    honestly i do like having the optane in my m.2... correct me if I'm wrong, but i do see that i do have speedy transfer rates going in between my ssd with windows and the hdd for moving games around. In general i see load times reduced for booting stuff like CAD files I work on.