Intel HEDT Skylake-X And Kaby Lake-X Detailed

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Megalith, Nov 13, 2016.

  1. Megalith

    Megalith 24-bit/48kHz Staff Member

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    More details are in about Intel's next high-end desktop platform, Basin Falls-X, which will host the Kaby Lake-X and Skylake-X CPUs. Bringing a new socket, LGA2066, the chips are expected to launch before the end of next year.

    Kaby Lake-X will initially only be available in a quad-core configuration while Skylake-X will be coming in 6-, 8- and 10-core versions. The Kaby Lake-X will also offer 16 PCIe 3.0 lanes while Skylake-X will be coming with 44/28 PCIe lanes. According to another slide, Kaby Lake-X will support dual-channel DDR4 while Skylake-X will come with quad-channel DDR4-2666 memory support. The Kaby Lake-X TDP will peak at 112W while Skylake-X chips will hit maximum TDP of 140W. According to the same source, Intel's Skylake-X chips have already started sampling and these CPUs are expected to launch sometime in Q3 2017.
     
  2. Ultima99

    Ultima99 [H]ardness Supreme

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    So nobody will be buying Kaby-X until they release the real version with more than 4 cores, quad channel memory, and not limited to a gimp 16 PCIe lanes.
     
  3. atp1916

    atp1916 [H]ard|DCoTM x1

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    KL-X w/ 4 cores is stupid. That is not "HEDT", that is called "hey, let's try a scheme like the 4820K again!"

    At least the HEDT range is getting a new socket. 2011 has had a helluva good run and delivered some serious socket stability to at least one segment of Intel's product stack, but it's time to put her out to pasture.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2016
  4. DrLobotomy

    DrLobotomy [H]ardness Supreme

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    Kaby? I'm renaming it K-Mart Lake with those specs.
     
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  5. -PK-

    -PK- [H]ard|Gawd

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    These early Kaby Lake-X cpus are what the Skylake unlocked K processors were last year. They're simply bringing them to the larger E socket (2066), and renaming this combination the new HEDT X series.
    The unlocked Kaby Lake cpu's will also be available on the desktop S socket (1151) with the Z270 Intel chipset.

    I think they're renaming this because the E series has been under performing due to the high prices for the 6-10 core cpu's. This essentially allows people to buy into the E series motherboard with a S performing cpu, then upgrade to a more expensive cpu within 0-1.5 years.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2016
  6. Galvin

    Galvin 2[H]4U

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    16pci-e lanes wtf. I was going to use M2 ssd from samsung on kaby lake, but can't do it with just 16 lanes. My machine from 2013 has 16 lanes.
     
  7. Stimpy88

    Stimpy88 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Kaby Lake, as represented here, is an oxymoron in the so called HEDT market. Who the hell wants a quad core CPU with just 16 PCIE lanes and a single channel memory controller in their "HEDT" workstation? Just go out and buy a cheap i5 and call it HEDT ready! lol
     
  8. -PK-

    -PK- [H]ard|Gawd

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    I think the cpu has 16 pcie lanes for the gpu (the first two pcie 16x sockets), plus 20 pcie lanes shared through the Z270 PCH for the remaining onboard devices, exactly the same as Skylake-S. It's up to motherboard manufacturers to determine where those 20 pcie lanes go, however. Usually with the 20 lanes they include m.2 on the motherboard and share pcie_3 at 4x bandwidth. I wish there was more bandwidth dedicated to m.2 storage devices too. You can attach a third m.2 to split with the gpu in 8x/8x, but this socket can't be included in a raid.
     
  9. Galvin

    Galvin 2[H]4U

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    I was planning to eventually have two M2 ssds on the board if the board supports it. I was under the impression that kaby lake was going to have 24 lanes. So you'd have 16 for GPU and 8 for two M2 drives.
     
  10. RanceJustice

    RanceJustice [H]ardness Supreme

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    So another generation without 12 cores hmm? Well, I guess I feel better about my Haswell-E / X99 8-core upgrade. Still, I'll be interested to see what comes down the pipe, the benefits of Socket 2066 and "X199" chipset (or whatever its called), and how AMD Zen will compete - if at all.
     
  11. TechLarry

    TechLarry Can't find the G Spot

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    Enough of this new socket horseshit. Please...
     
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  12. TechLarry

    TechLarry Can't find the G Spot

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    Why. What has age got to do with the number of pins.
     
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  13. Ultima99

    Ultima99 [H]ardness Supreme

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    You realize 2011 launched 5 years ago tomorrow right?

    It had an almost 3 year run before the current revision, 2011-v3 came out almost 2 1/4 years ago and will be pushing close to 3 when this new one comes out.

    Are you wanting to run your Skylake-X in a 486 motherboard or something?
     
  14. TechLarry

    TechLarry Can't find the G Spot

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    Who gives a fuck. Pins are pins. it's not like they get old and their johnson falls off or something.

    Stability in format saves money. It saves US money. Changes simply increase costs.
     
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  15. KazeoHin

    KazeoHin [H]ardness Supreme

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    What are you going to do, buy the competing product?
     
  16. TechLarry

    TechLarry Can't find the G Spot

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    So entirely NOT the point at all.
     
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  17. KazeoHin

    KazeoHin [H]ardness Supreme

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    Well, it is. Intel can do what they please. Notice how when AMD had a large market share, Intel kept the same socket for nearly 10 years (socket 775), but when AMD's market share dropped, Intel started changing sockets like most of us change our underwear.

    In the absence of competition, the leader can do as they please.
     
  18. TrailRunner

    TrailRunner Limp Gawd

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    Intel in the past has used, as the HEDT core (-E), a refinement of the previous gen of desktop core. For example, 6000 series, mainstream is Skylake, but high-end desktop is Broadwell-E. 4000 series, mainstream is Haswell, but high-end desktop is Ivy-Bridge-E, etc. Introducing the next-gen core (Kaby Lake-E) to HEDT at the same time as the mainstream core (Kaby Lake) would be very unusual for Intel.

    Interestingly, the specs for this Kaby Lake-X perfectly match regular desktop Kaby Lake. This makes me think that this is a desktop chip packaged to fit in the HEDT socket. We're probably going to get real Kaby Lake-E at the same time next-gen-Lake gets released to desktop.

    Also, on the page this product isn't label as Kaby Lake-E as HEDT normally is, it's Kaby Lake-X. So def not Kaby Lake-E
     
  19. DrLobotomy

    DrLobotomy [H]ardness Supreme

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    Well I was upset that there was no upgrade path for 1366 when the Sandy's came out and so I decided to skip that cycle and wait til the next one. I am still waiting since my rig @ 3.8 Ghz is what is basically for sale now with like 3 or 4 diff sockets since.

    I feel your frustration.
     
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  20. Dayaks

    Dayaks [H]ardness Supreme

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    I have this feeling my 5960x is going to last me at least five years. :)

    Sometimes I feel like these naming schemes are overally complicated.
     
  21. Shintai

    Shintai [H]ardness Supreme

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    Enough with using old sockets that limits performance. Please...
     
  22. TechLarry

    TechLarry Can't find the G Spot

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    Explain, in detail, how 2011 limits performance
     
  23. Shintai

    Shintai [H]ardness Supreme

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    Why they kept the socket, there was incompatibilities left and right. Also you had the memory and PCIe controller at the chipset and not the CPU.

    If you notice, AMD is changing sockets left and right too and with good reason. if you dont change the socket you are limited to the electrical floorplan and I/O of the previous. And that limits performance and future advancement.
     
  24. Shintai

    Shintai [H]ardness Supreme

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    I know you wish to claim you know more than AMD and Intel. But take a look at the electrical layout to begin with ;)

    They dont just change the sockets to anger you.
     
  25. TechLarry

    TechLarry Can't find the G Spot

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    If you can't appreciate a stable platform that you can upgrade through the years then I have no idea what else to say. You have been assimilated.
     
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  26. KazeoHin

    KazeoHin [H]ardness Supreme

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    Memory controllers on-chip mean nothing, as transitional chips frequently have multiple memory controllers. Moving multiple features on-chip is also moot, as if the functionality is on-chip: Great! If the mainboard supports it, it works, if not, too bad, that feature won't work. If the features are on the chipset: Great! The features travel with the mainboard.

    AMD changed sockets, but it was great about allowing backwards compatibility with their '+' sockets: you can drop a 6-core Phenom II in an AM2+ DDR2 board. That same chip will work in AM3 and AM3+.

    In other words: Yes, advancing features can merit a new socket, but Intel has made it so there is absolutely no cross-compatibility between generations. They have no reason to include socket compatibility in their roadmap, therefore you are right; compatibility "limits performance and future advancement" in that they would have to focus additional R&D into compatibility, but no functionality and features would be inherently lost by doing so.
     
  27. Shintai

    Shintai [H]ardness Supreme

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    That depends on the trade offs.

    Here is an example of 2 sockets that you think should be the same. Because evil companies and all.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  28. Shintai

    Shintai [H]ardness Supreme

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    You refer to AMD in the way past. FM1(Llano), FM2(Trinity/Richland), FM2+(Kaveri), AM4(Bristol/Summit Ridge).

    The Carrizo chips you see on FM2+ is IGP less, simply because there is no power plane to the IGP part from that socket. The socket got 2, the APU requires 3.

    And Thuban requires AM3.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2016
  29. KazeoHin

    KazeoHin [H]ardness Supreme

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    You aren't really arguing for your point. How long has FM2 been around? How many generations?
     
  30. Shintai

    Shintai [H]ardness Supreme

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    2.

    Trinity and Richland.

    FM2+ can use Kaveri and an IGP less Carrizo. So also 2. Well more 1½.
     
  31. KazeoHin

    KazeoHin [H]ardness Supreme

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    And furthermore, FM2+ can use all the FM2 chips.

    Once again. not a great example.
     
  32. Shintai

    Shintai [H]ardness Supreme

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    So now buying a new mobo is fine? Ups? ;)
     
  33. KazeoHin

    KazeoHin [H]ardness Supreme

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    It allows people to grab a new mainboard and literally nothing else. adding features and expandability without needing to upgrade their CPU.

    Nice try, though.
     
  34. Shintai

    Shintai [H]ardness Supreme

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    Unfortunately they use the exact same chipsets. So there isn't anything new to come after besides the improved electrics for the socket.
     
  35. KazeoHin

    KazeoHin [H]ardness Supreme

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    No, they don't I don't know where you're getting that information.

    http://www.amd.com/en-us/products/chipsets/a-series
     
  36. Shintai

    Shintai [H]ardness Supreme

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    Now tell me the difference. For example between A85X and A88X. And then tell me if it was worth an upgrade without a new CPU. Just click on the specs tab :)
     
  37. KazeoHin

    KazeoHin [H]ardness Supreme

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    What I'm reading:

    versus what I'm hearing:

    But to answer your question with another question: What are the differences between Z97 and Z170? Or Z77 versus Z97?

    To make it a bit easier to understand why upgrading a mianboard without upgrading a CPU is convenient, understand that Many features are not tied to the chipset, but rather features that the mainboard manufacturer adds. 2x 16X PCI-E slots are not a feature of Z170 chipsets, but board manufacturers can add PLX chips to provide this. Same with additional SATA ports, or better Mosfets and chokes for overclocking. Upgrading a mainboard by itself used to be something you did for the mere pleasure of updating your mainboard. Now if you have a platform more than 2 years old, you have to upgrade your CPU as well, because the wells of compatible boards for last-generation parts dry up.

    Have an i7 3770K, but you want to upgrade to an M.2 SSD? Too bad.
     
  38. Shintai

    Shintai [H]ardness Supreme

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    Its quite funny you are willing to upgrade the motherboard for no benefit. Yet its a problem if you also want a new CPU? The difference between A85X and A88X is NILL. You picked perhaps the worst possible as an argument. Then you can keep trying to avoid that fact as much as you like.

    Just accept it, everyone does socket changes and with good reason. This isn't 5 or 10 years ago.

    You can get an M.2 with a 3770K without buying a new mobo ;)
     
  39. nightanole

    nightanole [H]ard|Gawd

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    I hope they change the bolt pattern 1-2mm so my current setup doesnt work.
     
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  40. KazeoHin

    KazeoHin [H]ardness Supreme

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    Have you never upgraded a mainboard for future compatibility? Have you never been in a situation wherein you had an issue with your mainboard, but could not afford to purchase a new CPU as well as mainboard to replace it?

    You are using a backwards compatible socket to justify non-backwards compatibility. Companies change sockets, yes, but this does not mean it is a requirement to throw out all compatibility. There is no reason that A: a socket should change every 2 years and B: that change in socket should have absolutely no backwards or forwards CPU compatability. You quickly turned this into an AMD versus Intel thing, which didn't work out for you. Intel has been pretty slimy with doing everything they can to force as many CPU and mainboard upgrades as they can, and their revolving-door, completely incompatible sockets are an example of that.

    You are also striving to justify anti-consumer actions. I don't quite get it, and I don't really think you'll ever change.