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Intel chip to include antipiracy features
- Thread starter Rasha
- Start date
heres another question, why do I care about piracy. i don't make anything that can be pirated. could it be that i have a hint of morality left and that im not all about leeching from everyone else not caring about anyone but myself? nawww, thats crazy! and im brian fellowes
well it != lower employee pay. thats for damn sure. although less sales CAN lead to less pay and layoffs. so which is a better scenario. good! the first one!
SEALTeamSix
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2003
- Messages
- 2,434
Not necessarily - take this scenario: I download Ad-Aware 6 - Professional Edition (or any other good software) from my favorite file-sharing P2P network. I think it's really spiffy, so I recommend it to all the people who come to me for their computing needs. They are not all into "that file-sharing hassle (actual quote)", have disposable income to spend, so they buy the retail version. My $20 saved is Lavasoft's $100 earned. More $ = higher sales =(maybe) higher pay for worker.
As a guy who is knowledgeable about computers, my opinion matters to my less-computer-savvy friends and relatives, and when they come to me asking for recommendations, I tell it straight about what I know, and am informed about what software options are out there. Not only do I support companies who make good products by giving them great word-of-mouth advertising, but I help my friends through my knowledge of good and bad software (Windows ME, anyone?
). In many cases, particularly with the lesser-known acts, artists will upload their songs onto Kazaa because it generates this kind of word-of-mouth advertising. In a similar way, software companies put out freeware versions of their softwares, and game makers put out demos of their games. When people decide what software, music, and movies to buy, word of mouth is very powerful and affects software companies in a tangible, monetarily-significant way.
On a side note, I do believe you should pay for some software (for instance, full versions of video games should be bought).
-SEAL
Originally posted by SEALTeamSix
Not necessarily - take this scenario: I download Ad-Aware 6 - Professional Edition (or any other good software) from my favorite file-sharing P2P network. I think it's really spiffy, so I recommend it to all the people who come to me for their computing needs. They are not all into "that file-sharing hassle (actual quote)", have disposable income to spend, so they buy the retail version. My $20 saved is Lavasoft's $100 earned. More $ = higher sales =(maybe) higher pay for worker.
As a guy who is knowledgeable about computers, my opinion matters to my less-computer-savvy friends and relatives, and when they come to me asking for recommendations, I tell it straight about what I know, and am informed about what software options are out there. Not only do I support companies who make good products by giving them great word-of-mouth advertising, but I help my friends through my knowledge of good and bad software (Windows ME, anyone?
In many cases, particularly with the lesser-known acts, artists will upload their songs onto Kazaa because it generates this kind of word-of-mouth advertising. In a similar way, software companies put out freeware versions of their softwares, and game makers put out demos of their games. When people decide what software, music, and movies to buy, word of mouth is very powerful and affects software companies in a tangible, monetarily-significant way.
On a side note, I do believe you should pay for some software (for instance, full versions of video games should be bought).
-SEAL
if you didn't have access to the professional version of ad aware, you would still have access to the demo version(which i have tried recently and is quite good, many features). you would then know how it functions and still be able to recommend to others. and yes you could see the features that the professional version includes and tack that on to your presentation to your friends.
sorry but the 'if i couldn't warez it i would have no idea how good it is, therefore i wouldn't recommend it, therefore the company would lose sales' argument just doesn't float, because of these wonderful things called demos.
you try a demo, then you read what the full version offers on top of that, and you will have a very good idea of what the full version entails. not saying there aren't exceptions, but if a person is relatively intelligent, he can understand what he would get with the full version.
The Prescotts may not have DRM in the chip itself but one day computers will and you people are going to be forced to buy it because they will all have it. I love when warez monkeys get excited about the idea that they may actually have to buy something.
And Dell moved their phone support back to the USA after so many complaints.
And Dell moved their phone support back to the USA after so many complaints.
As long as corporate America is ready to abandon me, I'll abandon them. It's a dog-eat-dog world. Moral: Take anything you can get. They taught us that. How can I afford to buy this software when I can barely afford to pay my taxes? Someday its all going to collapse, watch and see.
Originally posted by @trapine
I fully agree with this statement
You must be a kid, or an uneducated adult.
Thinking this way will only hurt you in the long run. Time to grow up and live responsibly.
see thats the thing though, we had our chance to show good judgment and failed. now because of our choices to pirate software, something major had to be made to address the problem. weve basically done it to ourselves. no second chance either.
i mean what did you expect to happen, rampant piracy just continuing as normal for the next 30 years? are you also angry that there are highway patrol officers on the freeways? not that you speed or anything, but the fact that they are out there. doesn't that irk you?
there would be NO tangible disadvantage to legitimate software buyers because of drm or palladium in the same way there is no tangible disadvantage to cars that follow the speed limit on the freeway. so why should it weigh on your mind?
i mean what did you expect to happen, rampant piracy just continuing as normal for the next 30 years? are you also angry that there are highway patrol officers on the freeways? not that you speed or anything, but the fact that they are out there. doesn't that irk you?
there would be NO tangible disadvantage to legitimate software buyers because of drm or palladium in the same way there is no tangible disadvantage to cars that follow the speed limit on the freeway. so why should it weigh on your mind?
i totally disagree doh-nut.
We are kinda talking about 2 diffrent things.
The police officer on the road makes sure we do not speed. yes.
But the computer that tells me i can not copy a CD to my computer, even if i was given permission from the copyright department......... its a stupid program that has very limited AI, and it has many downfalls. ( i don't like the idea of a computer telling me what to do.)
Also, you said "we" brought this upon ourself. Perhaps some people choose to download free stuff, but that does not mean intel or microsoft HAS TO do this. It's their Choice to do this, which makes me worried.
i agree with:
@trapine
DryFire
Duckzilla
SEALTeamSix
I think its a fun concpet to be able to download useful software and/or data that will benifite me, if it is free, because i would never pay 18$ to 300$ for it(Please note: i do not do any downloading of illegal stuff). I understand there are 2 sides to the story. One sides is this: people are surpressing technology and kinda "de-evolving" society(if you don't understand this, just ask me and ill explain more). On the other hand, we, as humans have laws such as copyright. And after all, if it is a LAW, it must be good!!!!!!!!!!!!! ( I am reminded of slavery being legal in the old days).
Yes, im a kid, so i see things from a diffrent point of view.... and what's more, IM POOR! I can't afford to buy 3 copies of windows XP PRO to install on 3 computers........ i would rather just pay 40$ each, then that would come up to 120$. I would spend 120$ for 3, but now 900$.
Also, to the person who said Dell moved their customer support back to america, i totally disagree.... for i have a dell, (at one point i had 2 dells), and they still have most, if not all their free tech support people over seas......... i hate that. Maybe if you use their "pay for express service", you will get people who can talk english good.
--------------------
No matter what anyone says, this is a struggle to keep "big brother" away. I will fight the fight to keep it away.
You know what, maybe Intel, Phenoix, and Microsoft will actually make a product that does what they say, AND NOTHING ELSE, but ................... there is that "but", what if they do totally lie to us.... which im afraid of.
I also hate 1 sided EULA(end user liscense agreements), im in full support of Open source, free software.
What ever happened to the good old days where people would make a piece of software JUST TO make it, and help people out....... instead of trying to find every way they can to make the most money off it. And don't say that it takes a large company with thousands of Software designers and high ranking people who make millions of $$$,$$$,$$$ to make a good piece of software. It takes only 1 person.
_______________
To the person who said that every companie will FORCE THIS UPON US, and i will have no choice but to buy it. I disagree again (starting to pick up a pattern?). I am not forced to buy their "stuff", and i feel that <<< IF >>> they did this stuff, there would be another companie sprout up and give them competition. Only thing is, if the new companie does NOT offer this crap, then i think this "new companie" will make alot of money..........
Lastly, :SIGH:, to the person who said they can see this technology stuff "collapse", i totally agree....... i can see it in my head too. This makes me very sad and depressed.....
___________
I support good products, untill i can't afford to and/or feel their product is not worth the asking price. Because of this reason, people will download things for free.
The only way to stop this without a big fight, is lower the prices on stuff......... eaither that or make new services (Such as the MPAA).
I eagerly await your comments.
We are kinda talking about 2 diffrent things.
The police officer on the road makes sure we do not speed. yes.
But the computer that tells me i can not copy a CD to my computer, even if i was given permission from the copyright department......... its a stupid program that has very limited AI, and it has many downfalls. ( i don't like the idea of a computer telling me what to do.)
Also, you said "we" brought this upon ourself. Perhaps some people choose to download free stuff, but that does not mean intel or microsoft HAS TO do this. It's their Choice to do this, which makes me worried.
i agree with:
@trapine
DryFire
Duckzilla
SEALTeamSix
I think its a fun concpet to be able to download useful software and/or data that will benifite me, if it is free, because i would never pay 18$ to 300$ for it(Please note: i do not do any downloading of illegal stuff). I understand there are 2 sides to the story. One sides is this: people are surpressing technology and kinda "de-evolving" society(if you don't understand this, just ask me and ill explain more). On the other hand, we, as humans have laws such as copyright. And after all, if it is a LAW, it must be good!!!!!!!!!!!!! ( I am reminded of slavery being legal in the old days).
Yes, im a kid, so i see things from a diffrent point of view.... and what's more, IM POOR! I can't afford to buy 3 copies of windows XP PRO to install on 3 computers........ i would rather just pay 40$ each, then that would come up to 120$. I would spend 120$ for 3, but now 900$.
Also, to the person who said Dell moved their customer support back to america, i totally disagree.... for i have a dell, (at one point i had 2 dells), and they still have most, if not all their free tech support people over seas......... i hate that. Maybe if you use their "pay for express service", you will get people who can talk english good.
--------------------
No matter what anyone says, this is a struggle to keep "big brother" away. I will fight the fight to keep it away.
You know what, maybe Intel, Phenoix, and Microsoft will actually make a product that does what they say, AND NOTHING ELSE, but ................... there is that "but", what if they do totally lie to us.... which im afraid of.
I also hate 1 sided EULA(end user liscense agreements), im in full support of Open source, free software.
What ever happened to the good old days where people would make a piece of software JUST TO make it, and help people out....... instead of trying to find every way they can to make the most money off it. And don't say that it takes a large company with thousands of Software designers and high ranking people who make millions of $$$,$$$,$$$ to make a good piece of software. It takes only 1 person.
_______________
To the person who said that every companie will FORCE THIS UPON US, and i will have no choice but to buy it. I disagree again (starting to pick up a pattern?). I am not forced to buy their "stuff", and i feel that <<< IF >>> they did this stuff, there would be another companie sprout up and give them competition. Only thing is, if the new companie does NOT offer this crap, then i think this "new companie" will make alot of money..........
Lastly, :SIGH:, to the person who said they can see this technology stuff "collapse", i totally agree....... i can see it in my head too. This makes me very sad and depressed.....
___________
I support good products, untill i can't afford to and/or feel their product is not worth the asking price. Because of this reason, people will download things for free.
The only way to stop this without a big fight, is lower the prices on stuff......... eaither that or make new services (Such as the MPAA).
I eagerly await your comments.
if you are a gamer, your computer is already 'telling you' what you can and can't do. you need a MS os to be a gamer, plain and simple. checking to copy a cd and checking if you have windows are both checks. and both 'tell' you what you can and can't do.
you believe copyrights should be abolished, and it should be like the good ole days. ok
thats an interesting thought, but then you dont stop to think that even though it doesn't affect you except negatively, it posively affects useful people in society that make things of worth and are trying to make a living.
and your comment about how it should only take 1 person to make a piece of software and that people should only make software to help people.
....
come back when you've reached planet earth. thanks
you believe copyrights should be abolished, and it should be like the good ole days. ok
thats an interesting thought, but then you dont stop to think that even though it doesn't affect you except negatively, it posively affects useful people in society that make things of worth and are trying to make a living.
and your comment about how it should only take 1 person to make a piece of software and that people should only make software to help people.
....
come back when you've reached planet earth. thanks
It does only require one person to make a good piece of software........... Linux, (somewhat Windows), and the programming language C++ were basically made by 1 or 2 people. Granted, the newer linux is a mesh of many people's works....... but it started out as someone who created his own OS of Unix.
Also, i don't mind copyrights in the concept that they allow someone to make something in the United States and they will always be able to say "i was the one who made that!". I just don't like when it goes so far as to say, but you must pay me to use it. I can see WHY they would want, but in some instances, i think it should be legal to freely distribute it.
Such as a song. Yes, sure, godsmack (for example) will always have their song, and they will always say they made it, but ... i think it would be nice if it was legal to free'ly distribute it, especially if you bought the CD. As of right now, you need to get "permission" from the copyright offices of who made it, such as Sony records. And we all know they don't give this permission out to common people. Another thing, these companies discriminate against the poor. I can see if they wan to selectively say who can have their product (ex: a picture) and who can't. But when they say, if you can pay us what we want, you can have it. If you can't pay, you can't have it. This DOES discriminate against the poor. No if's and's or but's.
I wish it was like this. If you buy a book, you can let your friend read the book, even copy it if they want (you decide if they get to keep it, or if you get it back). Now, if only we could do this with music.
___________
on a personal note, i notice that when you disagree with someone, you have to use bad comments such as "come back when you've reached planet earth. thanks", or "come back to reality". Can't you just accept the fact that other people might have diffrent opinions then you? It seems like, if someone disagree's with you, you make fun of them and make it seem like they are not logical, they are not part of earth, they are not sain.
I on the other hand will just say "i disagree". Perhaps there is a level of maturity here you are overlooking? Keep the peace!
Also, i don't mind copyrights in the concept that they allow someone to make something in the United States and they will always be able to say "i was the one who made that!". I just don't like when it goes so far as to say, but you must pay me to use it. I can see WHY they would want, but in some instances, i think it should be legal to freely distribute it.
Such as a song. Yes, sure, godsmack (for example) will always have their song, and they will always say they made it, but ... i think it would be nice if it was legal to free'ly distribute it, especially if you bought the CD. As of right now, you need to get "permission" from the copyright offices of who made it, such as Sony records. And we all know they don't give this permission out to common people. Another thing, these companies discriminate against the poor. I can see if they wan to selectively say who can have their product (ex: a picture) and who can't. But when they say, if you can pay us what we want, you can have it. If you can't pay, you can't have it. This DOES discriminate against the poor. No if's and's or but's.
I wish it was like this. If you buy a book, you can let your friend read the book, even copy it if they want (you decide if they get to keep it, or if you get it back). Now, if only we could do this with music.
___________
on a personal note, i notice that when you disagree with someone, you have to use bad comments such as "come back when you've reached planet earth. thanks", or "come back to reality". Can't you just accept the fact that other people might have diffrent opinions then you? It seems like, if someone disagree's with you, you make fun of them and make it seem like they are not logical, they are not part of earth, they are not sain.
I on the other hand will just say "i disagree". Perhaps there is a level of maturity here you are overlooking? Keep the peace!
yes some people need to come back to earth. thinking that a company that has many employees could fire them and just have one person make the program. i dont think people have any clue how many programmers it took to make even windows 98. this is why some people need to come back to earth. they just don't have a clue how life works and why it can't function in the way they want it to.
towert...
You just dont get it, it all comes down to money.
Some people may agree that with music, money shouldn't be the driving force since its an art.
Unfortunatly that is how it is.
Software is a different situation. Companies are charging so much for software because 90% of it (real statistic) is being aquired illegally. They are only making 10% of what they should be making.
If 90% of there product were SOLD, then the price of the product would be nearly 80-90% cheaper. They are charging this much because they have to cover the costs of employees, distrobution, manufacturing, design, advertisement, lawyers, accounting, paying the taxes, maintenance, expansion, etc... etc..
These companies require MONEY. and like said above they are really only receiving very few of it.
I build myself a train, and I operate it myself and I sell tickets for people to ride this train. Someone comes along, buys a ticket and copies it.. Now 90% of people are riding my train for free. I gotta pay for fuel, or mabey a wheel that falls off, and I gotta pay to use the tracks its on.. But shit, I am not making a whole lot of money. Now I gotta raise the price of my tickets nearly 10 fold to cover the cost of the people not paying. after all my train is expensive to operate.
The 90% figure isn't BS either. There has been studies, where they found that over 90% of software being distributed and sold in asia was illegal. In north america the figure is like 70%, but north america doesnt make up a fraction of software sales that asia makes.
Anti piracy measures are put in place because nobody is paying for this shit. You cannot compare the software industry to the music industry. The music industry is a bit different as it boils down to record companies not getting 1 billion and instead getting 200 million. Then the record companies are having a hard time paying the bands 50 million each. the record industry is truely greedy, too many bands are putting a pricetag on there lyrics and vocals. Like in the art world, it tends to be hard to put a price on a painting. And not to mention the record companies, the kingpins of capitalism, they gotta make ridiculous amounts or they have a hissy fit. Either way I still dont condone downloading music. But honestly I doubt that is something that will ever change.
You just dont get it, it all comes down to money.
Some people may agree that with music, money shouldn't be the driving force since its an art.
Unfortunatly that is how it is.
Software is a different situation. Companies are charging so much for software because 90% of it (real statistic) is being aquired illegally. They are only making 10% of what they should be making.
If 90% of there product were SOLD, then the price of the product would be nearly 80-90% cheaper. They are charging this much because they have to cover the costs of employees, distrobution, manufacturing, design, advertisement, lawyers, accounting, paying the taxes, maintenance, expansion, etc... etc..
These companies require MONEY. and like said above they are really only receiving very few of it.
I build myself a train, and I operate it myself and I sell tickets for people to ride this train. Someone comes along, buys a ticket and copies it.. Now 90% of people are riding my train for free. I gotta pay for fuel, or mabey a wheel that falls off, and I gotta pay to use the tracks its on.. But shit, I am not making a whole lot of money. Now I gotta raise the price of my tickets nearly 10 fold to cover the cost of the people not paying. after all my train is expensive to operate.
The 90% figure isn't BS either. There has been studies, where they found that over 90% of software being distributed and sold in asia was illegal. In north america the figure is like 70%, but north america doesnt make up a fraction of software sales that asia makes.
Anti piracy measures are put in place because nobody is paying for this shit. You cannot compare the software industry to the music industry. The music industry is a bit different as it boils down to record companies not getting 1 billion and instead getting 200 million. Then the record companies are having a hard time paying the bands 50 million each. the record industry is truely greedy, too many bands are putting a pricetag on there lyrics and vocals. Like in the art world, it tends to be hard to put a price on a painting. And not to mention the record companies, the kingpins of capitalism, they gotta make ridiculous amounts or they have a hissy fit. Either way I still dont condone downloading music. But honestly I doubt that is something that will ever change.
The point I was trying to make regarding your earlier comment doh-nut is that basically you gave a half ass example with the cops. You see in a way the cops benefit us in a most helpful way, keeping us out of trouble and providing a source to look to when shit happens. Where as this app doesnt even give us a choice (the choice to download the software or not.) it simply attempts to strong arm us into line (I mean when you look at it...it boils down to freedom. At least the cops let me make my choice....speed or not to lol). Thats what I dont like about the whole situation. I mean...why should I have to suffer because others decide to abuse their power a computer gives them. I've done nothing wrong to deserve it. So to end with the political bullshit....TAKE IT BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARDS CEASER!
big worm, i agree.
I read a artical in a magazine that did say asia is the WORST for piracy. (thinks of all the illegal movies that have asian subtitles, lol) not that i download any!!! mind you ^_^.
If i were to recommend to microsoft a few things, it would be this. Keep their anti-piracy software "activation", but make it better. SO that way it is not dependent on your hardware, and also so that i am able to transfer it to other computers or sell it.
The other main thing would be to lower the cost of the software. Im not sure if, from a business standpoint, this would be feasible (lower prices = more sales, but higher prices = less sales.......... where does the break even point of this occur?, i wonder). But, its just getting so expensive to buy software.
My parents bought me office XP (student edition) last year, and come to find out, if i was to get a new computer, i can not install it on that computer. That's 160$ a pop, which my family can't afford for me. Im sure there are many people in my situation, or wrose. Thus their only way to get a "good" product like this is to download a pirated version. (good'ness forbid your not an educator/student, and it would cost you a hefty 350$ a pop).
This brings up another point. If from the beginning, microsoft charged a lot less for their software, or made it possible to install on multiple computers, would we have as much a problem with piracy? ide say not.
I am very happy to spend 16-35$ on a DVD. And i will contiune to do so.
I think you get what im trying to say.
I don't know what to say, im just speachless. I just hope a company finds a way to stay profitible, while making a good product that is cheap. A dream? maybe, but i can dream.
I read a artical in a magazine that did say asia is the WORST for piracy. (thinks of all the illegal movies that have asian subtitles, lol) not that i download any!!! mind you ^_^.
If i were to recommend to microsoft a few things, it would be this. Keep their anti-piracy software "activation", but make it better. SO that way it is not dependent on your hardware, and also so that i am able to transfer it to other computers or sell it.
The other main thing would be to lower the cost of the software. Im not sure if, from a business standpoint, this would be feasible (lower prices = more sales, but higher prices = less sales.......... where does the break even point of this occur?, i wonder). But, its just getting so expensive to buy software.
My parents bought me office XP (student edition) last year, and come to find out, if i was to get a new computer, i can not install it on that computer. That's 160$ a pop, which my family can't afford for me. Im sure there are many people in my situation, or wrose. Thus their only way to get a "good" product like this is to download a pirated version. (good'ness forbid your not an educator/student, and it would cost you a hefty 350$ a pop).
This brings up another point. If from the beginning, microsoft charged a lot less for their software, or made it possible to install on multiple computers, would we have as much a problem with piracy? ide say not.
I am very happy to spend 16-35$ on a DVD. And i will contiune to do so.
I think you get what im trying to say.
I don't know what to say, im just speachless. I just hope a company finds a way to stay profitible, while making a good product that is cheap. A dream? maybe, but i can dream.
Gee's some people live in a dream world for starters do you really think if piracy was killed off that the price of software will go down frogshit lmao?
Secondly doh-nut your analogy about the cop is a funny one look at it this way does your car have something under it's bonnet to physically stop you from going over the speed limit NO does it physically stop you from drink driving NO?
Now why do you think that is?
Because govenment make to much money off of people doing such things.
Untill these corperate companys are governed alot more than they currently are i would be really worrried about giving them such monoplistic powers it makes you shudder some of the things they could implament
lmao?Secondly doh-nut your analogy about the cop is a funny one look at it this way does your car have something under it's bonnet to physically stop you from going over the speed limit NO does it physically stop you from drink driving NO?
Now why do you think that is?
Because govenment make to much money off of people doing such things.
Untill these corperate companys are governed alot more than they currently are i would be really worrried about giving them such monoplistic powers it makes you shudder some of the things they could implament
You do get what I was trying to tell you though, right?
bottom line, software companies arn't purposly trying to screw you, they cant make much more money using marketing stratigies or "cheaper software = higher sales"
Companies have teams of buisness men straigizing (sp?) different scenarios to make more money and raise sales. In the end its very hard to do when the majority of the people out there can just download your software and crack it.
If microsoft somehow was able to lower the price of winxp home, from $200-$150, I doubt alot of people who download regularly would stat buying.
Piracy takes FAR more money from a large software company then shoplifting takes from a large department store. Department stores arn't losing 70% of there merchandise to shoplifters
Either way, same thing applies to merchandise, if shoplifting wasnt a problem, merchandise would be sold for a bit less (not a whole lot though.)
SEALTeamSix
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2003
- Messages
- 2,434
Plenty of demos are woefully inadequate, while the full versions are actually quite useful. Demos are perfectly good representations of games, but when it comes to a lot of software, it just doesn't cut it. Also, I don't recall seeing a demo version of Office XP, or Office 2003 for that matter (which, IMO, Office 2003 is not worth the money, given what Office XP already does). More often than not, demos don't do the full programs justice, so I'd prefer just to check out the full applications themselves. I have even been known to buy programs that I like (AdAware, etc), but a lot of full programs are junk anyway.
-SEAL
Thats a funny one right there if they were losing 70% of there profits to piracy then microsoft would be broke as a street begger lmao
The only people that piracy is hurting is the small struggling software firms.
Microsoft would sell xp and all there software for mega $$ Even if piracy wasnt a problem as thats what happens when you give a corperate company whole sale manopoly
So just wait till DRM comes to a motherboard near you then watch the price go through the roof
Originally posted by @trapine
Thats a funny one right there if they were losing 70% of there profits to piracy then microsoft would be broke as a street begger lmao
The only people that piracy is hurting is the small struggling software firms.
Microsoft would sell xp and all there software for mega $$ Even if piracy wasnt a problem as thats what happens when you give a corperate company whole sale manopoly
So just wait till DRM comes to a motherboard near you then watch the price go through the roof
Alright I will take your word for it, You sound like you know what your talking about.
If this is implemented, and it probably will. Prices *SHOULD* drop but they won't.
Like when the music industry said cd prices would fall once teh meduim was cheaper.
I still have to pay $13 for a cd with music on it like i did 10 years ago, but i can buy a stack of 100 cd's for that price.
Also I'll be dammed if they try and charge me extra for some piece of shit they want to implment without most people know or anyone really wanting it.
if this is implemented and widnows drops to $40 i'll b e happy. I'll bet anyone money it won't though.
Like when the music industry said cd prices would fall once teh meduim was cheaper.
I still have to pay $13 for a cd with music on it like i did 10 years ago, but i can buy a stack of 100 cd's for that price.
Also I'll be dammed if they try and charge me extra for some piece of shit they want to implment without most people know or anyone really wanting it.
if this is implemented and widnows drops to $40 i'll b e happy. I'll bet anyone money it won't though.
burningrave101
[H]F Junkie
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Software prices are outrageous. Nobody wants to pay $139 for each computer just to have windows xp pro on it. If you could pay $139 and put it on as many computers as you want that would be fair.
Software has no material value. Its only data on hard drives, CD's, and DVD's. It costs money to pay people to create the software but it costs nearly nothing to reproduce it for sales. How much does one blank CD cost? Almost nothing if you buy them in large bulks. Take the instance of XP Pro for $139. Thats more when what it costs to buy a Western Digital 10,000rpm raptor. The hard drive has plenty of material value and costs money to be designed and lots of money to reproduce so its prices are warranted.
Software has no material value. Its only data on hard drives, CD's, and DVD's. It costs money to pay people to create the software but it costs nearly nothing to reproduce it for sales. How much does one blank CD cost? Almost nothing if you buy them in large bulks. Take the instance of XP Pro for $139. Thats more when what it costs to buy a Western Digital 10,000rpm raptor. The hard drive has plenty of material value and costs money to be designed and lots of money to reproduce so its prices are warranted.
if you have enough money for more than one computer for yourself, then you will have enough money for another copy of xp. otherwise try and not buy so many computers for yourself!
the cd with xp pro on it is worth the money, not because of the medium is on, but whats on the medium. this piece of software drives all your hardware, lets you play games, lets you do work, and all at the same time if you prefer. THAT is very valuable. and being a gamer, i see that xp pro is the best choice, so i buy it(actually i bought the full oem version of xp pro for $19.99 as a college student special :] ).
but its justifiable that xp pro is worth more than that harddrive. its more powerful.
the cd with xp pro on it is worth the money, not because of the medium is on, but whats on the medium. this piece of software drives all your hardware, lets you play games, lets you do work, and all at the same time if you prefer. THAT is very valuable. and being a gamer, i see that xp pro is the best choice, so i buy it(actually i bought the full oem version of xp pro for $19.99 as a college student special :] ).
but its justifiable that xp pro is worth more than that harddrive. its more powerful.
thelostrican
Gawd
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- Jul 31, 2003
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its all about freedom, its all about choices, humans like to be able to choose, for better or worse, as simple as that.
and we as humans dont like that taken away from us.
does that mean that we are completly free, no. we live in a society that has a set of values and rules that benefit the majority. and should make everybody happy.
for example it is ilegal to drive over 65 on the highway. and we could say that any more speed is not really necessary, yet all cars are able to surprass that speed limit with ease. in theory we could say that car maker should make cars no faster than that limit, and we could say to that accidents would be reduced and there would be no high speed tickets.
and we could even say that it would be best for everybody that way. yet it is not like that. you have the choice.
i could keep with examples like that. but i think the point is there.
we as consumers need to have the choice sure if you are gamer you only can go with ms. but you had the choice to become a gamer.
the reality of it all is that no company in the technology business should tie new technologys to those kind of features, and to be honest it wont work, ask intel with their id crap and what happened.
in the case of the riaa, i just laugh. and i wont stop laughing, there you have a case of an industry that has made a lot of money and didnt invest a cent on researching there business model. and the truth is that their business model doesnt cut it nowadays. just like it happened to the airlines after 911. their business model went to hell and never came back. at least the recordind industry has had time to prepare and they just keep on shootng themselves on their own feet.
at the end it all comes back to having the freedom of being able to make a choice for good or for bad.
oh and doh-nut: if it wasnt for those rip os cds that a lot of people have used, the internet and the computer world would not be as it is today. so even though it was wrong it made good for everybody at the end.
funny thing is that the thing that made the computer what it is the internet was and is free.
and we as humans dont like that taken away from us.
does that mean that we are completly free, no. we live in a society that has a set of values and rules that benefit the majority. and should make everybody happy.
for example it is ilegal to drive over 65 on the highway. and we could say that any more speed is not really necessary, yet all cars are able to surprass that speed limit with ease. in theory we could say that car maker should make cars no faster than that limit, and we could say to that accidents would be reduced and there would be no high speed tickets.
and we could even say that it would be best for everybody that way. yet it is not like that. you have the choice.
i could keep with examples like that. but i think the point is there.
we as consumers need to have the choice sure if you are gamer you only can go with ms. but you had the choice to become a gamer.
the reality of it all is that no company in the technology business should tie new technologys to those kind of features, and to be honest it wont work, ask intel with their id crap and what happened.
in the case of the riaa, i just laugh. and i wont stop laughing, there you have a case of an industry that has made a lot of money and didnt invest a cent on researching there business model. and the truth is that their business model doesnt cut it nowadays. just like it happened to the airlines after 911. their business model went to hell and never came back. at least the recordind industry has had time to prepare and they just keep on shootng themselves on their own feet.
at the end it all comes back to having the freedom of being able to make a choice for good or for bad.
oh and doh-nut: if it wasnt for those rip os cds that a lot of people have used, the internet and the computer world would not be as it is today. so even though it was wrong it made good for everybody at the end.
funny thing is that the thing that made the computer what it is the internet was and is free.
burningrave101
[H]F Junkie
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Im beginning to think i have a real knack for picking hot topics. I had another one going in Stricly AMD today and it finally ended after 94 posts and a lock, but we wont talk about that one .
.YOU are wrong. if i have 3 computers, i can afford 900$? NO! WRONG! my parents bought me my computer for 400$, and we found the other 2 on the street. Now think about that........ the software is almost as much as a brand new computer. You do not have to be rich to have multiple computers. (you have to be rich to have multiple quad xeon 3ghz with HT).
__________________________
No way is the software worth 300$. NO WAY! Not to me.
I don't care if it allows me to find the largest prime number in the world! its not worth 300$. Let me tell you why its not worth that.
in the case of microsoft, 0.000001% of the sales goto manufacturing. 20% goto all the workers (this includes Research and Development (R&D)), about 5% goes to maintaining hardware, and ide say that 74.000009% goes to the owners of the company (this also includes payouts to people who own stock). These are not stitistical figures, but there darn close.
on the other hand, with say, a hard drive for about 100$ (maybe a 160gb Maxtor). Ide say about 40% goes to the workers (this includes R&D), 5-10% goes to the actual cost to make the product, 10% goes to maintaining their equipment (more if they are expanding), and 40-45% goes to the owners (including stock owners).
You see, it does not take microsoft alot of money for R&D, they already have a programming language called C++. ALl they had to do is figure out what code to use.........
On the other hand, a company that makes hard drives actually has to do scientific research on how to make a hard drive hold more information. How to make it smaller, how to discover new types of hard drives, how to make them faster, how to make them more reliable.
On a personal note, can you explain your 19$ windows XP for us? Like the details of what it is. I will assume it was "THREW" the college, as the academic prices (from microsoft) of Windows XP PRO upgrade is still about 83$.
Fight for your right to pirate! Even though i don't do any of this, mind you! Im a model citizen! (im somewhat jokeing)
This is getting ridiculous. You are sold the right to use it on one computer. I do not hear anyone saying that it isn't fair to buy a copy, and not allowed to make copies and sell them now do we?
I don't see how the cost of manufacturing goes into this. So what if the cost of manufacturing it and the package costs 50 cents, do you think they are really going to make a profit by selling them Windows for a dollar a piece? No because manufacturing isn't what cost the money. Windows XP probably cost billions of dollars to produce and the price of manufacturing all the physical Windows packages cost maybe a few hundred thousand. The price is not to cover the box, it is the hard work that took many years to produce the software.
I don't see how the cost of manufacturing goes into this. So what if the cost of manufacturing it and the package costs 50 cents, do you think they are really going to make a profit by selling them Windows for a dollar a piece? No because manufacturing isn't what cost the money. Windows XP probably cost billions of dollars to produce and the price of manufacturing all the physical Windows packages cost maybe a few hundred thousand. The price is not to cover the box, it is the hard work that took many years to produce the software.
i did a quick search on ebay found many full xp pros for around $120, unused as well. you're right $300 is pretty high, but only people who dont know how to find good prices on the internet will pay $300. and i know that you know better, but i suppose you are speaking for those who dont.
anyway 2 computers you found in the street would probably be better off not using xp pro anyway. unless you found 1ghz machines with more than 256 ram. try and find win98 or winme for those crappers because xp pro is probably too good for them and would actually have them run slower if they aren't very fast.
yes, your argument against MS and prices looks bigger than it is, because the price is ridiculous when you pay full retail price for 3 versions of the best windows os out. but in your situation, a smart option wouldn't be to buy 3 copies of xp pro for $300 a piece.
also can i have your source for those figures about where microsoft's funds go?
and about the $19 winxp pro. lol, i was amazed it was for $19.99 only. a few weeks later they were sold out, and raised the price substantially. but keep in mind, it was an OEM copy. they just gave me a cd slip with an xp cd in it, and a key on the back. really shiny pretty prism thingy on the front too. but yea i realize prices aren't the way id like them to be. that just makes me work harder to find the best prices possible.
Game companies manage to sell their games for $50 a pop without priacy (some are even $25).
I don't see why MS can sell win xp for $85.
I was reading how a college was considereing a linux alternative and alos an open source alternative to MS office.
Robert Kenndy college already took an initiative with eh creation of college linux.
Ms will not go to it's knees though as most of it's sales are probably made in the oem secotor. Dell, IBM, HP, etc... all use windows XP while they probably get it for $20 that's like 1 millioon * 20.
So when joe average sees the lovely ms adds he thinks, "I need to upgrade because it would make my life so much easier and make my computer so much better at the same time!"
So he goes out and buy windows xp for $300 because he has a ton of money (or he pirates it because he has no money)
and upgrades.
MS does not care about the enthusiast market.
I don't blame them. if you were a buisness owner would you want to tailer to 95% or 5% of the market?
I don't see why MS can sell win xp for $85.
I was reading how a college was considereing a linux alternative and alos an open source alternative to MS office.
Robert Kenndy college already took an initiative with eh creation of college linux.
Ms will not go to it's knees though as most of it's sales are probably made in the oem secotor. Dell, IBM, HP, etc... all use windows XP while they probably get it for $20 that's like 1 millioon * 20.
So when joe average sees the lovely ms adds he thinks, "I need to upgrade because it would make my life so much easier and make my computer so much better at the same time!"
So he goes out and buy windows xp for $300 because he has a ton of money (or he pirates it because he has no money)
and upgrades.
MS does not care about the enthusiast market.
I don't blame them. if you were a buisness owner would you want to tailer to 95% or 5% of the market?
thelostrican
Gawd
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DryFire: funney things is that ms sells their os at less than that in places like asia etc, to stop antipiracy. go figure.
thelostrican
Gawd
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- Jul 31, 2003
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- 618
i did