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Installing HD slanted ok?

J

jeff1941

Weaksauce
Joined
Apr 16, 2006
Messages
77
I was putting some rubber washers on the hard drive and case drive of the hard drive. The hard drive is flat but the front of the HD is a bit higher than the back of the HD so its prob around 20Degrees or so. Is this ok? I know you can have the hard drive flat or vertical or sideways, just wanted to make sure.
 
I think the closer to a 90 degree angle you can get the better, but 20 degrees should be okay. I could do a bunch of math to figure out how much force is being applied to the arm, but we still don't know how stiff the arm is.

 
I should think that the hard drive will operate just fine at any angle as long as that angle isnt shifting. It's essentially stationary at the axis, and the arm is a flat metal peice (consisting of a couple actually but still) that just extends out. the head is just a very fine wire that rests on a pocket of air above the platter created when the drive spins. i've had hard drives at odd angles and never had a problem
 
theoretically it is not ok.. all i can think is that the bearnings in the arm and platters both would wear out sooner..

they do mount them at angles in the imacs though..
 
The problem is when the arm is accelerating in a direction not perpendicular to gravity. The head is being pushed in two directions:
Code: 
platter /   / |Gravity
surface/   /  v
      /   /
     /	 / Motor push
    /   L
So the heads get pushed by some tiny, tiny bit toward the platter surface. That's Bad.

I didn't know that about iMacs. Guess I won't buy one of those, then.

 
I've installed a lot of drives at various angles, some right around 45 degrees, and have never had any ill effects. I wouldn't worry about a slight angle.
 
*hell* I've even changed the axis of orientation of a drive during a write operation. My roomate even *dropped* a sata (1m of cable length anyone?) during a write operation and everything is still fine... Both of these drives were WDXXXX drives... It seems that HD's today are either *really* picky or rock solid :eek:
 
Arcygenical said:
*hell* I've even changed the axis of orientation of a drive during a write operation. My roomate even *dropped* a sata (1m of cable length anyone?) during a write operation and everything is still fine... Both of these drives were WDXXXX drives... It seems that HD's today are either *really* picky or rock solid :eek:
Click to expand...
A single of 'few' observation experiment over a 'limited' (how long ago was this?) timeframe does not indicate a general trend. As U_M said the stiffness of the head arm has a lot to do with how tolerant a drive is to being mounted at an angle.

Also, I believe that a lot of HDD damage is latent, i.e. it will not show up immideately, but rather a while after the indicent.
 
Sharaz Jek said:
no! the data will spill off the platters! :p
Click to expand...
No, the centripetal force will hold it on. Just like that amusement park ride where they spin the thing real fast and then tip it up and you stick to the walls.

 
It will be fine. There shouldn't be any problems with the read/write arm(s). Besides, they're spring-loaded by design to 'squeeze'. If the platter wasn't there, they'd come together.
 
unhappy_mage said:
No, the centripetal force will hold it on. Just like that amusement park ride where they spin the thing real fast and then tip it up and you stick to the walls.

Click to expand...
well, if you plan your writes accordingly (when the data is going downward) it may improve STR.
 
I guess that you guys haven't thought about all of the angles that a notebook drives experiences during operation.

And that the drive mechinisms are basically the same.

And from the Western Digital Drive installation guide.

Secure the hard drive:
WD drives will function normally whether they are mounted sideways or upside down (any X, Y, Z orientation). Of course, the physical design of your system may limit the positions in which the drive can be mounted. However, in all cases, you should mount the drive with all four screws for good grounding. Also ensure that there is enough air space around the drive for adequate air flow, and avoid mounting the drive near sources of excessive heat (such as some CPUs).
Click to expand...

 
rodsfree said:
I guess that you guys haven't thought about all of the angles that a notebook drives experiences during operation.
And that the drive mechinisms are basically the same.
And from the Western Digital Drive installation guide.
Click to expand...

Not all drive mechanisms are the same, the theory and design of them is. Smaller mechanical items have higher tolerances than larger one of matched ratios.

5g of force on a .5 inch drive arm will be vastly different from the same 5g of force on a 1.5 inch arm. Notebooks drives and smaller, think microdrives, are much more tolerant to forces than 3.5 inch drives.


In fact, i've got numbers to back it up

First off, Hitachi microdrive
non-operating shock, 2000G per 1 millisecond
operating 200G per 1ms
http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/techdocs/FF5400DF7594877E86256D830072F4CF/$file/HGST4GB_Microdrive9.10.03.PDF

laptop harddrive from Seagate, the momentus series
non operating shock, 900G per 1 millisecond
operating 250 per 2ms, or about 125 per 1ms
http://www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/datasheet/disc/ds_momentus7200.pdf

seagate internal drives
non-operating 350G per unknown time(2ms?)
operating 63G per unknown(2ms?)
I check out western digital and maxtor and they rate their desktop drives with a per 2ms rating, so I'm going to use that for Seagate as well
350G/2ms would be 175G per 1ms
63G/2ms or about 31.5G per 1ms
http://www.seagate.com/cda/products/discsales/marketing/detail/1,1081,705,00.html


Using those numbers laptop drives are about 4.5 times more resistant to shock than desktop drives, and microdrives are about 11.4 times more resistant to shock than a desktop drive, at least for non-operating numbers.

I can pull up operating numbers from other manufacturers as well.
 
defakto said:
Not all drive mechanisms are the same, the theory and design of them is. Smaller mechanical items have higher tolerances than larger one of matched ratios.

5g of force on a .5 inch drive arm will be vastly different from the same 5g of force on a 1.5 inch arm. Notebooks drives and smaller, think microdrives, are much more tolerant to forces than 3.5 inch drives.


In fact, i've got numbers to back it up

First off, Hitachi microdrive
non-operating shock, 2000G per 1 millisecond
operating 200G per 1ms
http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/techdocs/FF5400DF7594877E86256D830072F4CF/$file/HGST4GB_Microdrive9.10.03.PDF

laptop harddrive from Seagate, the momentus series
non operating shock, 900G per 1 millisecond
operating 250 per 2ms, or about 125 per 1ms
http://www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/datasheet/disc/ds_momentus7200.pdf

seagate internal drives
non-operating 350G per unknown time(2ms?)
operating 63G per unknown(2ms?)
I check out western digital and maxtor and they rate their desktop drives with a per 2ms rating, so I'm going to use that for Seagate as well
350G/2ms would be 175G per 1ms
63G/2ms or about 31.5G per 1ms
http://www.seagate.com/cda/products/discsales/marketing/detail/1,1081,705,00.html


Using those numbers laptop drives are about 4.5 times more resistant to shock than desktop drives, and microdrives are about 11.4 times more resistant to shock than a desktop drive, at least for non-operating numbers.

I can pull up operating numbers from other manufacturers as well.
Click to expand...


All good info......

But off topic.
The OP question was about mounting angles - not imapct survivablity.

And my statement was about the angles that the similiar (meaning shaped like each other - not the same size) drive mechanism in a notebook drive experiences during operation. Not impact, or the difference that a .5" lever arm has over a 1.5 inch lever arm.

;)


 
rodsfree said:
And my statement was about the angles that the similiar (meaning shaped like each other - not the same size) drive mechanism in a notebook drive experiences during operation. Not impact, or the difference that a .5" lever arm has over a 1.5 inch lever arm.
Click to expand...
But in this instance you can treat gravity as a small, continuous impact. The same thing is happening as far as force exerted is concerned. A 2.5" drive has a shorter, therefore stiffer arm. Thus, gravity isn't as big a potential concern.

Also, notice that WD manual says any X, Y, Z orientation. I read that as "along any of those axes", not "at an arbitrary angle".

 
I dunno it might be fine.

But I do know that hard drive manufacturers used to advise against angled drive mounts. They said 90 degrees is fine, but a smaller angle such as 15-20+ degrees could damage it.

But things have changed so...
 
unhappy_mage said:
But in this instance you can treat gravity as a small, continuous impact. The same thing is happening as far as force exerted is concerned. A 2.5" drive has a shorter, therefore stiffer arm. Thus, gravity isn't as big a potential concern.

Also, notice that WD manual says any X, Y, Z orientation. I read that as "along any of those axes", not "at an arbitrary angle".

Click to expand...


How can you possibly consider that gravity on a MEMS is a stronger force than the spring that pulls the head against the disk???

Remember the landing zone of the disk?

That's where the head can rest when the disk stops spinning because the spring is gonna pull it into contact with the disk.

The spinning of the disk is the only thing that lifts the head off the disk anyway. Boundary layer, anyone???

Also, remeber that the WD manual is written for Joe Schmoo - not an engineer.
They wouldn't reference the 6 degrees of freedom required to orientate the drive, because it would just confuse the average guy.

And based on that argument, you couldn't rotate the drive 90deg or upside down or on its side. XYZ axes only allows for translation - not rotation. Hell, you wouldn't even be able to point the connectors away from the motherboard. Therefore, the drive wouldn't function in a Lian Li case that mounts the drives perpendicular to the conventional drive alignment.

At some point in time the KISS principle needs to be applied - Or Occam's Razor if the KISS principle is too obscure.

The drive will work just fine based on any XYZABC orientation that you care install it.
The heads never contact the surface of the disk due to lift generated by the spinning of the disk and the boundary layer of air that is in contact with the disk.
The distance between the head and the disk is maintained by a spring that PULLS the head into the disk, whose force is overcome by the lift generated by the spinning of the disk.

If all else fails.....
RMA the bitch.
They NEVER ask what orientation that the disk was installed in when it failed.

 
How many [H]ard members does it take to mount a hard drive... :p. I couldnt resist.

I cant imagine the small change on the heads and bearings by changing the position of the hard drive making much of a difference, unless you expect your drives to last for decades.
 
We [the H-forum] could just buy 1000 drives, run 500 of them horizontally and 500 at an angle. come back in a year and see which ones have fewer bad sectors on average?
 
drizzt81 said:
We [the H-forum] could just buy 1000 drives, run 500 of them horizontally and 500 at an angle. come back in a year and see which ones have fewer bad sectors on average?
Click to expand...


Or we could just take the manufacturers word that mounting a drive parrellel the x,y or z axis are the only acceptable orientation. I mean, they did create and test the drive.
 
bob said:
How many [H]ard members does it take to mount a hard drive... :p. I couldnt resist.

I cant imagine the small change on the heads and bearings by changing the position of the hard drive making much of a difference, unless you expect your drives to last for decades.
Click to expand...

One to post a question about how to correctly mount it, two to respond, four to argue with the two who responded, five to gather technical information and argue about physics and electromagnetism. A moderator to close the thread because it's turned into a flamewar.
 
According to Jeremy H. with Western Digital Tech Support:

"We do not have any preferred mounting orientation because we have no data that confirming problems directly related to a specific mounting orientation, angle or position. The only thing we ask is that you securely mount the drive such that it will not move during operation. "

although not a detailed answer, it does satisfy the question.
 
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