Install XP with no Optical Drive = Fail

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SudburyOntario

Gawd
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May 5, 2008
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I'm trying to install xp on an older laptop.. Dell

It has these hot swappable bays for the battery / floppy / optical drive.. Well guess which one is missing..

Has anyone installed xp without the network, usb thumb drive, or optical drive ?


Thank you everyone.. All is working now !

Here is a photo for the new comers to this thread.

 
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So you have NO network, usb ports, firewire ports or optical drive? Nothing? Why bother? This machine is useless.
 
If you place the CD on the keyboard it might start installing though you will see data running over your keys as it does so...

Outside of this possibility, there is no way to get XP on a machine without some form of connection, whether it is a network card, USB thumbdrive or CD-Rom or built in CD-Rom. Maybe floppy disks if you have several hundred around but yeah seems like a useless computer. :confused:
 
It has a usb slot but none that can boot from. The only network card would be a pcmcia type. It's just going to be used for [H]ardreading next to the bed. Laptop was free and I have a decent one atm but just like something extra. Once xp is installed, it will be a lot more usefull.

Dell CPT - C Series. ( Plan to upgrade it a little ) Currently has 333mhz cpu with 256mb ram.

My older one ( AcerNote with Pentium 1 @ 100mhz plays DX Ball and I'm getting bored of it ).
 
You sure you can't get it to boot a small linux distro like Damn Small Linux from the USB port? IMO, something like that would be your best bet.
 
Without BIOS support to boot from USB the choice of OS is irrelevant. You need a way to boot the machine first.
 
Pull the drive up load up all the cab files etc, make the drive bootable from another pc and then put it back in and install it that way.... bout all i can think of.
 
Oh, it's possible... just time consuming...

It's also somewhat complicated so I'll make it the short short version since when I usually answer this question (install XP on a machine as stated with no removable storage or network capability at all). Here we go:

- you need to remove the hard drive and attach it directly to a desktop machine (using a 2.5" to 3.5" IDE adapter or just an SATA cable as required)

- once attached, you're going to need to find a Windows 9x boot CD, whether it's 95, 98, 98SE, or ME, doesn't matter

- you're going to need to boot that machine off the CD so you can fdisk/format that laptop drive and then transfer the 9x bootloader over to it with the sys command. Preferably when you boot the machine off the 9x CD, you only want that one hard drive attached. This method may not/most likely will not work if the drive is attached using a USB/Firewire external housing - it has to be directly attached to the IDE or SATA controller on the mobo, and it must be the only hard drive in the system.

- with the 9x CD in the drive, and the laptop drive attached to the IDE or SATA controller, boot the machine WITH CD-ROM SUPPORT - this is critical as you must be able to access the CD in the drive to get a file from it

- fdisk the laptop drive, create the partition(s) as you wish, then format them all (if you create more than 1 partition, you will need to format at least the C: partition, meaning the first one so you can accomplish the next step, and obviously it must be FAT32 (the 9x CDs don't allow for NTFS sooo... you can convert the file system later on, it's not an issue at this point)

- after creating and formatting that C: drive/partition, you need to use the sys C: command to transfer the boot code and necessary system files to that laptop drive (you can't manually do this, it has to be done with the sys C: command, there's just no getting around it)

- once that's done, and the command says "System transferred successfully." you need to go into the last drive - it'll be the RAMdisk that got created when you booted the CD using CD-ROM support. It could be drive E:, F:, etc but most likely it will be E: since the laptop drive is C: and the optical drive is D:. Anyway, cd to E: and find the smartdrv.exe file - you will need this or the XP installation could take hours, seriously. Copy the smartdrv.exe file to C: with copy smartdrv.exe C: and verify it's actually on the C: drive before you continue.

- you also need to copy the himem.sys file from the A: drive - that's the CD itself, the root folder - from A: to C:. cd to A:, copy himem.sys C: and you're done. Verify that the C: drive has 3 files on it visible:

command.com (system file created with the sys C: command)
himem.sys (you copied it there manually)
smartdrv.exe (you copied it there manually)

- eject the CD from the optical drive and boot that machine off that hard drive. If it works, you'll know it because you'll be staring at a C: prompt in a few seconds, most likely less than a second. If you don't see the C: prompt, if it gets stuck and you just see a blinking cursor, you missed something or it needs to be done again, and again till it gets done correctly.

- once you can boot off that laptop drive to a C: prompt, you can then re-attach the system's normal drives, you're done with what you can do that method so far.

- once the system is back up and running with the normal OS (we're talking about the Desktop machine, still), you can then copy the entire i386 directory from the XP installation CD to that drive (it won't be C: anymore, but the drive letter doesn't matter). Just copy that entire i386 folder to that drive so it should only contain two files in the root: command.com and the smartdrv.exe file you copied, but you'll need one more file you can now create.

- create a file called config.sys using Notepad on that laptop drive and it should have one single line in it:

device=himem.sys /testmem=off

save that file, make sure the filename is config.sys and not config.sys.txt - it must be config.sys

- when all is said and done, that laptop drive will have 4 files in root:

command.com
config.sys
himem.sys
smartdrv.exe

and one directory:

i386

- power down the desktop, put the drive back in the laptop, and power it up. If all went according to the plan, the laptop should boot to the C: prompt without issues. If it does, type smartdrv.exe and press Enter. Type smartdrv.exe again and press Enter again - the SmartDrv cache will show statistics and that way you're ensured that it's running.

If it is, congrats, you're almost done. Next step... cd to i386 and run winnt.exe. That starts the XP installation manually, and you should know what you're doing from that point on...

And yes, I've typed this hundreds of times over the years... it's the only way to get XP on a machine with no removable storage capability, no optical drive, no floppy, no network connectivity of any kind at all, etc.

This is it, and it works. It's not as complicated as it seems when you've done it a few hundred times (as I have) but, for a first timer, they'd rather cut off their arm I think... but it does work, it's just tough the first time. But then you won't be an "Isolated XP installation" virgin anymore... :D

Good luck...
 
Database said:
Pull the drive up load up all the cab files etc, make the drive bootable from another pc and then put it back in and install it that way.... bout all i can think of.
Click to expand...

I was thinking about doing it this way too but I don't think it can be done with xp ? Being windows 98 ( ect. ) I could do it.
 
Joe.. sounds like this has been posted before or your just very fast at typing :D I'll swing it a try.. now for reading :p
 
Yah, 105 wpm typing speed on average... and since that stuff was being written off the top of my head, it came out pretty quick... :)

If you get stuck someplace just post, I'll be around tonight keeping an eye on the thread. The biggest issue is some people try to partition/format the drive in the desktop using their normal Windows based tools, and that won't work. What will happen is you end up with an issue because of how the 9x command line fdisk tool works - the Windows based tools will fuck it up, basically.

You must fdisk/partition/format it using the 9x tools, that's why the drive must be used as it is up till the point that it's done and ready for the i386 to be copied over, which is easier inside Windows than using xcopy (you'd have to reboot the laptop drive, run smartdrv.exe and then use the xcopy command or that process could take 30 mins or more just to copy the files).

Copying the i386 onto the completed laptop drive inside Windows is far more efficient...
 
Joe Average has the "right" of it all.

The principles and practices described there are kinda just an offshoot of what needed to be done to install XP on many older desktop rigs, back in the day when there will still plenty of machines in use which had early CD-ROM drives fitted and connected up to Soundblaster cards rather than motherboard controllers.
 
I should be alright with these guide lines, I have been working with computers for a long time however I never said that I knew everything. I'm still learning. I did read a similar post with these instructions earlier today but it also included me to use a dosboot.img file. The post which I mention is similar has been written over at www.addonics.com


But is was not really that helpful to me.

" The process involved

A. Set up the USB drives under DOS mode (step 1 - 9)
B. Copy folders and files from your Windows installation CD to the hard drives (step 10 - 17)
C. start the software installation

Installing Windows 2000, XP, 98SE or Me using the Addonics USB CD-ROM, DVD-ROM, DVD/CDRW or DVD-R/RW drive.

Download USB DOS driver and Save the file to your hard drive.
Use Winzip to extract the file, if you do not have the Winzip program you may get a shareware version here www.winzip.com
Once Winzip is installed, use the program to extract the file.
Open the folder name USBboot and execute the rawrite2.exe
When prompt for the image name, enter dosboot.img
Enter the floppy drive as your destination drive, which in general is the A:\
Place a disk into the floppy drive and press enter
When it is done, reboot with this disk to use the USB devices.
CDROM drives will be using the Drive R:\
Hard Drives will be using the next letter available. Please note there will be no letter for the hard drive if it has not been partitioned and formatted. If you are not familiar with partitioning or formating a hard drive, please go to the following Microsoft link for the information http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q255867
If everything went well, you should have a drive R:\ for the CDROM drive. You are now ready to copy the I386 folder from the Windows 2000 or XP installation CD to the hard drive.
At the prompt, go to the C:\drive by typing “C:" then "Enter”
At the Local Drive C:\drive, create a Folder name. For example at the C:\prompt type “MD 2k”. Doing this will create a folder name “2K” on your local hard drive.
Now type “R": then "Enter” to go to the R:\drive
At the R:\ prompt type the following “Path=A:" then press "Enter
Now type “Xcopy . /s C:\2k" then press "Enter” (There is a space between Xcopy and the dot)
Once the copy process is completed, go to the C:\drive.
Open the folder you have created, in this case it is the 2k folder. For example: from the C:\ prompt type “CD 2k" then press "Enter”
Now go to the I386 folder by typing CD I386 then Enter, from the C:\I386 type Winnt and enter.
Installation should now start. Follow instruction from your Operating System manual on how to install the OS. (Installation will take some time, Please be patient) "
 
Actually I have done basically what JA said and before you EVEN think about it, search around and see what others have been able to accomplish with this laptop in terms of what OS could they get up and running and that you can get drivers for the pcmia network card and the like. This is a lot of work for such an old machine and the time to get something like this up and running and setting up stuff this old almost NEVER goes well.
 
Just while I'm making the Fat32 file system.. Could I just load the i386 folder and boot to c: command from the 98se boot floppy ?
 
I described that in the second post above I made:

With the laptop drive still in the desktop, as long as it's bootable (after the sys c: step) and it has config.sys as described and himem.sys and (you need the config.sys to load the himem.sys drive so you can use...) smartdrv.exe, yes. To do it you'll have to...

- Reboot off the CD one more time after the drive is situated, using CD-ROM support so it gets a drive letter.

- when you get to the A: prompt, cd to C: and run smartdrv.exe twice so you know it's working

- if it is, cd to the 9x CD and use xcopy to copy the entire i386 directory to the C: drive including subdirs

If you don't run smartdrv.exe (it's a disk/file copy cache) the process could take 30 mins or longer, so make sure you've got it running beforehand.

But yes it's possible to do everything without every actually booting Windows on the desktop with the laptop drive attached, sure.

You'll figure it out.
 
Everyone grab coffee or something if you feel interested in this thread.. the copy will take a few minutes. To speak with me more directly.. I'm sure you know my msn name. :)
 
SHIT.. Thanks, I bought some today and gladly did not leave it in the freezer to get cold this time. Always a nice reminder :D
 
Sipping on a Corona waiting to see how this turns out. I have an old dell laptop missing the optical drive as well and would love to get it up and running. I'm sure I could find a use for it.

Good luck mate!
 
Just think how far we've finally come these days: we can now install an OS off a USB stick if we want (Vista/Windows 7), and yes I know Windows is a bit behind in that respect but, even so... it's progress. My first thought was perhaps there could be a way to do this with the OP's machine for XP but, that's a nightmare in and of itself because of how the XP installer "disconnects" the USB circuit - using 2K3 (Windows Server 2003) would get around this issue because it doesn't handle things the same way, actually.

In fact there was a way to use some of the 2K3 files to make a bootable USB stick to install XP but, it just never seemed to work it the attempts I made to get it functional. The method described above, while frustrating the first few times (the whole process you keep telling yourself "this shit is ridiculous, it shouldn't be this hard, really"), it eventually becomes easy to do after more successful procedures.

"Repetition is the mother of all skill..." is a pretty apt saying. Do it so often it doesn't require much thought and it's automagic... that's when it becomes a skill. One of my favorite lines in a movie is in "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" where Li Mu Bai tells Princess Jen that "Real skill is effortless" which just furthers the concept... find people like athletes or whatnot who make something that, to the untrained eye or hand, is exceedingly difficult but they make it look so easy, all because they've done it so often their skill now requires little to no effort whatsoever.

Yeah, I'm bored, sue me, but I do love that movie.

</[H]ardPhilosophy_101>
 
I'm back alive and reposting.. I just got the files onto the drive and putting it back together to stick inside the laptop... keep on standby.. :)
 
I'm glad for growing up with dos commands :) It is still a little bit fun being able to show some young kids what a computer can do without an operating system, but more fun with one haha.
 
Actually the BIOS in even that laptop is way bigger than the ROM's in the first consumer PC's. I think the TRS-80 Model 1 had 16K of ROM which was the OS. Yes, things have come a long way.
 
Currently blue screen with Inspecting Computer... and now I know that once I format with fat32, copy I386 over to C: and execute winnt.exe it's finally showing me some colours. And now it's copying the files over.. Wonderful.

I had some help moving the files over using Mini PE XT - hard drive would not spin up in the tower using the mini connector, seems to do that to older small hard drives.

I will reply with any advancements.. hehe now this will come in handy for other things.
netbooks..
 
Since you can boot from USB drives with netbooks installing any OS is a no brainer. Just make the device bootable into some DOS and run the installer if need be. Even easier is to plug a USB optical drive into the sucker. That's how I installed the RTM on my Eee PC 1000H.
 
Seems to be stuck on this action and does not show any files being copied ( it did earlier ). Hard drive light is a solid on. I'll check back in 20.
 
You did run smartdrv.exe twice to ensure it's in operation, right? :) If not, that file copy process from CD to the hard drive (the i386 folder) can take a really really long time...

And if you need a quick way to find out if the laptop is truly 'stuck' completely, tap the Caps Lock key a few times - if the indicator light doesn't go on/off with each tap, the machine is hard locked, which happens sometimes during installs. The biggest file (the one that takes the most time) with XP is the drivers cabinet file.
 
Alright. All is copying now. I really hate working with older laptops. The newer ones are at least more universal to their parts. I could take another dell, not working, and pull any optical drive out and stick it inside.

Why so much trouble.. it makes me hate the past for some reasons. Floppy days where no better either.
 
XP doesn't come with smartdrv.exe because its installer has a disk cache integrated, but with previous OSes (including 2K) when you start the setup it'll complain and tell you flat out if you're not using smartdrv.exe or if it's not loaded then the file copy process will take a long long time. :)

And yeah, Dells are great for spare parts if you have 'em around. ThinkPads, Dells, and maybe one or two other brands keep the same "docking" compatibility across pretty much their entire lineups. Not everyone does it, but those in the fields of supplying directly to business in mass quantities typically do, and they use those same docking features for that reason: ease of use, swapouts, etc.
 
See what I mean? I just can't deal with working with stuff like this anymore. It takes too much time to get new stuff working let alone a dust bunny. It used to be fun, now it just isn't for me.
 
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