Insanely slow XP boot...?

First, O[H]-Zone, you have demonstrated you don't quite understand services, I suggest you ask some more questions (in another thread), instead of making incorrect statements.

Second, now you guys are crapping in the thread, the OP still has issues, and not with services.

Alex41290 said:
well, thanks everyone for the help...i guess i kind of fixed it, somehow? but now it takes just as long at the xp boot logo (it goes at least 8 times) but then windows boots really fast...i'm getting new RAM soon, because, for some reason, UT2004 is getting "general protection fault" and i remember reading somewhere that's RAM...

any more suggestions? how to get rid of CWS?

thanks,

alex
Click to expand...
Try running Spy Sweeper for CWS, more info in the spyware stickie.

As far as the GPF in UT2k4, that *could be RAM, but you can test memory before you replace it. Download Memtest86 and make a bootable CD, test the memory (test will autorun forever, let it test for several hours or overnight), 0 error is the only good result.
 
Phoenix86 said:
First, O[H]-Zone, you have demonstrated you don't quite understand services, I suggest you ask some more questions (in another thread), instead of making incorrect statements.
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My statements have all ben accurate. If you disagree, perhaps it is you that needs to do some research.
And GreNME, I can't help but notice that your two examples are non-M$ services - I have no doubt that other companies do things differently. Let's be a bit clearer then...M$ Services. If they're automatic, they start with windows. If they're started, then they're potential security problems, and they use resources. If they're disabled, you're more secure, and your system uses fewer resources. Give me an example of a M$ Operating system service that doesn't start with windows, when set to automatic...not an add-on.
You can't.
And evidently you missed this line:

Defacto security mantra tells you to disable anything not absolutely neccessary for a particular computing environment.

In your own words:
most services only take up a few kilobytes
But you said they don't take up any resorces. "A few kilobytes" is a resource. Were you wrong then, or are you wrong now?
 
Thanks Phoenix86, you actually answered my question without arguing with anyone...i just downloaded "Goldmemory" and i'm going to let it run now for a little bit and see if that works...i'm also going to downclock my CPU to 3200+ speeds instead of 2.3GHz...i'll see if all of those combined help...i'm gonna buy new RAM no matter what...i saw this brand PDP, its $167 for a gig!!! and its PC3200!! w00t! i might get some hyper-x or something of the like if i have the money...now, i think somewhere before i deleted CWS, because it never brought up anything about me having it. Would a power supply be causing the GPF in UT2004?

thanks everyone for the help...


alex
 
Alex41290, I can argue up a storm when I want to, it's just not appropriate for this thread. ;)

Would a power supply be causing the GPF in UT2004?
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Possible, but if your only seeing problems in the game it's more likely software related (unless this is the only taxing program on the system). The OC could do it too, when troubleshooting, #1 step is to take your foot off the gas, and downclock to normal speeds.

Good luck.

O[H]-Zone said:
My statements have all ben accurate. If you disagree, perhaps it is you that needs to do some research.
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Did you miss my point about how this discussion belongs in another thread or are you trolling? This thread ISN'T about services, they were only brought up as a troubleshooting step.

Besides, see my sig. You DON'T quite understand services. I didn't put you that quote in there to humiliate you, I put it there to show people why jacking with your services isn't a grand idea. Sure there is some tweaking you can do there, but can you prove any real world performance gains from those tweaks?

Don't get so defensive, your not going to learn anything like that.
 
well, i toned down my OC and i ran Goldmemory, and looks like i'm gettin new RAM!! lol, 2 errors, one in the 8bit/byte? and another in the 16. I didn't let it go to 32 cuz i already know i need new stuff. I already posted in memory asking about new stuff...


thanks everyone for all ur help, especially phoenix...you all can keep arguing if you want, and if you have something productive to say, please do tell....


alex
 
O[H]-Zone said:
My statements have all ben accurate. If you disagree, perhaps it is you that needs to do some research.
And GreNME, I can't help but notice that your two examples are non-M$ services - I have no doubt that other companies do things differently. Let's be a bit clearer then...M$ Services. If they're automatic, they start with windows. If they're started, then they're potential security problems, and they use resources. If they're disabled, you're more secure, and your system uses fewer resources. Give me an example of a M$ Operating system service that doesn't start with windows, when set to automatic...not an add-on.
You can't.
Click to expand...
You don't get it, do you? "Automatic" != "it is running," which is what I have been stating from the very first. I showed you two examples where services set to auto were not running automatically, and now you make up more bullshit in your backpedaling.

Auto does not mean started. Started does not mean security risk.

And evidently you missed this line:

Defacto security mantra tells you to disable anything not absolutely neccessary for a particular computing environment.
Click to expand...
You remind me of guys who quote single verses out of a bible and claim that as the absolute, when other verses surrounding it put it into a specific context or situation.

Additionally, no offense meant to Sutan, but he is not the bread and butter of my breadth of knowledge of security and system vulnerabilities. He will even admit himself that there are things where he doesn't know, and that he is not the final word on security measures. What he is, however, is the final word on this forum on who is comporting themselves civilly, which has jack and shit to do with services.

In your own words:
most services only take up a few kilobytes
But you said they don't take up any resorces. "A few kilobytes" is a resource. Were you wrong then, or are you wrong now?
Click to expand...
That is not taking up "resources" in the sense that you will gain anything by turning them off. They take up a negligible footprint, only when running, and only take up actual resources when in use. All the rest of the time they are sitting in a waiting state, ready to be called. So no, they take up no resources even though the footprint is negligible.

I love how people like to take the complex nature of different operating systems and dumb them down to kindergarten-level logic. If you want a good example of understanding services, go study the nuances of how Linux daemons work, how they are handled by the kernel, and when they actually call on system resources as opposed to just taking up a small footprint waiting to be used.
 
Look, guys, I understand you are just trying to make a stand and increase the general publics knowledge with the correct information, but its getting kind of out of hand and off topic. I'm not angry, I just want(ed) help, and thanks to all that did help. Now, you can post and argue over this somewhere else, and I'm sure you can continue the discussion elsewhere.


Thanks!
 
GreNME said:
I love how people like to take the complex nature of different operating systems and dumb them down to kindergarten-level logic. If you want a good example of understanding services, go study the nuances of how Linux daemons work, how they are handled by the kernel, and when they actually call on system resources as opposed to just taking up a small footprint waiting to be used.
Click to expand...

Windows Services != *nix daemon
 
GreNME said:
Is that so? And I quote:
It ain't exactly the same, but the concepts are.
Click to expand...

Look, I don't want to get into this silly argument, but if you actually think you are going to prove to me that Exchange Server's store.exe is the same as inetd, then I'd love to read what you have to say.
 
I just have one more thing to add, in reference to GreNME screenshot and comments..

GreNME, all services set to automatic will ALWAYS start when you boot your system. Regardless if they are needed or not, they will run when you boot. They just simply shut down after a given amount of time if they arent being used.
BTW, I dont know if that is a screenshot from your system, but if it is...why would you leave Remote Registry enabled?
 
Clockwork said:
Look, I don't want to get into this silly argument, but if you actually think you are going to prove to me that Exchange Server's store.exe is the same as inetd, then I'd love to read what you have to say.
Click to expand...
:rolleyes: Since I never said the two were exactly the same, then you should go back and check yourself. The way they (daemons and services in general) work and how they (daemons and services in general) work with the operating system is the same. The programs themselves are not. Get over yourself.

I just have one more thing to add, in reference to GreNME screenshot and comments..

GreNME, all services set to automatic will ALWAYS start when you boot your system.
Click to expand...
You can't believe your eyes, huh? I just showed you two services that are set to automatic that do not start at boot.

BTW, I dont know if that is a screenshot from your system, but if it is...why would you leave Remote Registry enabled?
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Because people can't exploit it, even if I let them in my own network. If you live in the NJ/Philly area, I'll be willing to give you 50 bucks and buy you a drink if you can. You would have to get access to the machine itself first before you can access it, at which point the machine has already been exploited.
 
You showed me a screenshot showing them already stopped.
It took me forever to find this, but I knew you werent going to believe me, so this is what MS says:
A service has three states which can be configured by the Services Administrative Tool to one of the following values:

• Automatic: a service configured as Automatic is started by the system after device drivers have been loaded by the operating system at boot time.

• Manual: a service set to Manual will start when another service which has a dependency on this service starts or when explicitly started from the Services Administrative Tool, a script or command line.

• Disabled: a service that is Disabled is installed but not running.

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/pr...r2003/technologies/management/svrxpser_3.mspx

Whatever controls those services in your screenshot obviously sent a stop command to them.
As far as Remote Registry is concerned - Hey, whatever floats your boat.
 
And this means what? I never stopped the services, and I've seen the same on services in other configs (no, I don't take screenshots of every system I see it on).
 
It means they started at boot, as automatic services do, then were sent a stop command.
 
-freon- said:
It means they started at boot, as automatic services do, then were sent a stop command.
Click to expand...
No, this is the confusion between "started" and assuming that it is running and taking up resources. Between going through the services.msc, the task manager, and using tasklist /svc from the CLI, one is able to see that while most services set to auto are actually running, a lot of them have simply loaded drivers or DLLs into memory from which other programs operate.

Especially using tasklist /svc, you can find listed under services many DLLs because they have been loaded by services, as well as services themselves. Additionally, when you see loads of services tied to svchost, that is because they all are assigned the same PID (process ID), which in turn limts their access to actual CPU time and resource usage, since the PID dictates when the kernel is going to assign them actual CPU time (one PID is handled at a time for however long its priority is and when the kernel requires it, among other things). So, while a service may show as "started" in services.msc, it can easily have not seen any CPU time for hours, days, or weeks (depending on how long you keep the system running), and is usually only still resident in the svchost list because the kernel anticipates the possibility of using it again (often to just load a DLL or run a quick process).

Basically, it comes down to there being different "levels" between showing up as started in the services.msc and actually making system calls where the kernel begins allotting it CPU time. There is a state where it is totally off and must be started, called, allowed to run (switched from user mode to kernel mode), and then run by the kernel. Being set to "automatic" only acheives the first, and not always in every case (as was shown by the screenshot).

In addition to processes being given time, those that load at boot also load DLLs (as was mentioned), which when not being used are also stored in the virtual memory... but that's a whole other issue altogether, and while I have a good understanding of it and other things that are interconnected, it would take forever to explain it all and since I'm not a programmer for MS, there are specifics to which I only have a vague understanding due to the closed nature of the source. However, for those of you seriously interested in seeing how an OS works on these lower levels, Linux is a great place to start: even though it has some important differences as to how it does things, the concept there is more often than not very much the same.
 
Dude, when you boot your system, the services set to "automatic" will start. The ones that are set to auto, but arent showing up as started when you look at services.msc, were stopped.
What you are saying has nothing to do with that.
 
This pissing match ends now. Face it, you're just going to debate semantics until you're both blue in the face.

As for my line about defacto security is to deny all by default and open what's needed, I get that from my security background with routers, permissions, etc. For example, look at Cisco routers--they have a implicit deny any any at the end of the ACL, so unless you put in a permit statement, for all intents and purposes, nothing is getting through.
 
Bob, I see your location is listed as chAir Force.. You active duty? If so, where are you stationed?
 
Cisco IOS and Windows XP are waaay different, man. But as per your wish, the debate is dropped.
 
lol, i just like to keep going back to this thread to read these people "duking" it out over something kind of dumb (not really, i did kind of ask)...but u guys really should stop...i think this thread is pretty much done...thanks to all who helped...




alex
 
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