Can you post some specific details, because I would expect there to be a few. If you looked at my system, you'd see Windows Time Update, Windows Update, Adobe Acrobat Updater, Java Updater, Microsoft Money, Symantec AntiVirus, and Outlook sending data. I imagine there's some sort of network discovery/uPNP processes, also.
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Inquirer calls Vista 'Win ME 2'
- Thread starter Godofdestrcution
- Start date
masteraleph
Limp Gawd
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And you have evidence that these packets are NOT being sent to, say, check for Windows Updates?
Nope, Like I said, I dont have the knowledge to do that, however I know that the Windows Installer uses its own packet headers, and these were not Windows Installer packets. oddly enough they were http packets.
Zardoz
2[H]4U
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you better put you tin foil hat on.
Now days a lot of applications and OSs send and receive information. you will find that most of this is software update checks, crash data and in some cases usage info. as for the info collected on you, it's going to be nonspecific to who you are, do you think Microsoft really cares who you are? all they want to know is why something crashed or if you are up to date with software. at most the only spific thing they might collect is your IP address and anybody can get that.
you better put you tin foil hat on.
Now days a lot of applications and OSs send and receive information. you will find that most of this is software update checks, crash data and in some cases usage info. as for the info collected on you, it's going to be nonspecific to who you are, do you think Microsoft really cares who you are? all they want to know is why something crashed or if you are up to date with software. at most the only spific thing they might collect is your IP address and anybody can get that.
That hat has been welded to my head and upgraded to 3 inch titanium
I dont know for sure., but What I have done is disabled UAC, and Superfetch, and used vlite to install a smaller Vista (got rid of the stuff I dont use). And so far that traffic has stopped.. I havent come across it since then.. Right now, I feel pretty safe.
Then post the packet data you have and let someone draw the conclusions.
You know enough to draw the absurd conclusion that MS is endlessly collecting data on what programs you use, UAC just being a campain to collect data on the user, then when asked straight-up to provide data, you all of a sudden don't know anything about it?
I know that I'm not going to put a packet log of my LAN on the internet... Hows thta? clear enough for ya?
Take a screenshot of it, blurr out your IP address then.
take out the information that could be used to id you, nub
lol, no reply. I know he read it- I checked his profile a bit ago and saw he was reading my reply (you left yours after he went offline), and doesn't respond.
Funny, how when asked to provide backup for the absurd nonsense spewed, people run off or ignore it.
Funny, how when asked to provide backup for the absurd nonsense spewed, people run off or ignore it.
I posted my response.. I'm --not-- going-- to-- post-- packet-- logs-- of-- my-- LAN-- on-- the-- internet--
Can I make it any clearer? How about a lesson in comprehension?
then, like i said, remove personal identifiable data. you seem to know wtf you are doing with computers, may i assume you could look at your log and remove what you dont want to tell others?
Hi My wife and I had a foursome with Jessica Alba and Alyssa Milano last night. While we were, the Pussy Cat Dolls danced topless around our bed. I can't prove it though...but it happened, and you should believe me anyway. It's here on the internet, so it must be true.
LstBrunnenG
Supreme [H]ardness
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I also survived Windows ME. Windows Vista is not Windows ME.
ME was an OS that got worse the longer that you used it. Applications would simply crash for fun, followed by the entire OS just for good measure.
Vista is an OS that gets better the longer you use it, both in the short term and the long term. Short term: Superfetch. Long term: better drivers every day.
The most problems I've had with Vista is IE or WMP crashing after weeks of use. I've seen Firefox gorge itself on 100s of MB after a few days' usage, so this is no big deal for me. Start them up again and it's as good as new. Pretty much impossible to bring the whole OS down, without overclocking to the point of instability.
ME was an OS that got worse the longer that you used it. Applications would simply crash for fun, followed by the entire OS just for good measure.
Vista is an OS that gets better the longer you use it, both in the short term and the long term. Short term: Superfetch. Long term: better drivers every day.
The most problems I've had with Vista is IE or WMP crashing after weeks of use. I've seen Firefox gorge itself on 100s of MB after a few days' usage, so this is no big deal for me. Start them up again and it's as good as new. Pretty much impossible to bring the whole OS down, without overclocking to the point of instability.
dude...thats funny...cuz i just did it with jennifer love hewitt about an hour ago...now i'm gonna go make a sammich
LstBrunnenG
Supreme [H]ardness
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Now that he's installed using vLite, he's more than likely removed whatever "malevolent" piece of the OS was contacting MS anyway.
Duby, I have to ask - what are you so afraid of Microsoft knowing? I've always accepted the Customer Experience Program prompts when prompted - am I missing a valid reason not to do so? What's MS going to do?
computerpro3
LightningRod
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I just noticed this thread was started by "Godofdestruction".
I didn't know Steve Jobs posts on [H].
I didn't know Steve Jobs posts on [H].
"Ah ha! Ah ha! Ah ha" - Old Jewish guy (played by Eddie Murphy) at the end of Coming To America.
That is a fair question, that I thin keverybody here deserves an answer to. Like I said I cant prove my suspicions. I just dont have the know how to track down the source of these packets, or even what the contents of the packets are. They are just my suspicions, nothing more.
I have googled this, and found other people with the same suspicions, but like I said, I cant prove it.
As far as what I'm afraid of, is nothing more then invasion of privacy. I dont do anything illegal or immoral with my computer, any more then most folks that visit this foum. However If someone was peeping on me while I was in the shower, I could press charges, and the person would be in real trouble. If someone is peeping on me in my computer is is supposed to just be accepted I think that is a dangerous precedent to set.
Sooner or later everything will be online, from stoves, to furnaces, to cars, to TV's, and the precedent that is being set today will greatly affect our future, And I think it is dangerous
Have to agree with duby229 on this
You may not be doing anything "illegal", but that doesn't give someone the right to snoop on you.
Its bad enough here in the UK you cant look up and not see a CCTV or other means of tracking (gooo Oyster!), I don't want packets of data being sent that I didn't request to be sent
The OS is there to serve you, thus if the OS is doing something you don't want it should be stopped. It is my bandwidth that Microsoft is using if/when they send out packets of data.
I am not saying they do during normal operation of windows. What I am saying is IF they did then they shouldn't. In fact I am pretty sure they wouldn't be in Europe due to our nice protective laws. you Yanks tho...
You may not be doing anything "illegal", but that doesn't give someone the right to snoop on you.
Its bad enough here in the UK you cant look up and not see a CCTV or other means of tracking (gooo Oyster!), I don't want packets of data being sent that I didn't request to be sent
The OS is there to serve you, thus if the OS is doing something you don't want it should be stopped. It is my bandwidth that Microsoft is using if/when they send out packets of data.
I am not saying they do during normal operation of windows. What I am saying is IF they did then they shouldn't. In fact I am pretty sure they wouldn't be in Europe due to our nice protective laws. you Yanks tho...
i'd be more worried about the government doing that than MS to be honest.
Ninja EDIT: though...they already read email, monitor your bank accounts, and wiretap phones...so i guess watching what porn you look at on saturday is the next logical step.
/me takes off tin foil hat...and makes a ball to throw at duby
i'd be more worried about the government doing that than MS to be honest.
Ninja EDIT: though...they already read email, monitor your bank accounts, and wiretap phones...so i guess watching what porn you look at on saturday is the next logical step.
/me takes off tin foil hat...and makes a ball to throw at duby
just because the gov'n possibly is doing it, doesn't make it right and is justification for others to do it.
Wow, you just contradicted what you said earlier...
Oh really? Was it not you that said "Do some reverse lookups on the IP and DNS, that's some scary stuff you'll find in there"????duby said:
So, what happened to all these packets that you said you found Microsoft sending????
They vanish into thin air, along with your credibility?
I have googled this, and found other people with the same suspicions, but like I said, I cant prove it.
As far as what I'm afraid of, is nothing more then invasion of privacy. I dont do anything illegal or immoral with my computer, any more then most folks that visit this foum. However If someone was peeping on me while I was in the shower, I could press charges, and the person would be in real trouble. If someone is peeping on me in my computer is is supposed to just be accepted I think that is a dangerous precedent to set.
Sooner or later everything will be online, from stoves, to furnaces, to cars, to TV's, and the precedent that is being set today will greatly affect our future, And I think it is dangerous[/QUOTE]
Yea... it sucks down a whole 5Kbs of it
Microsoft has posted contents of their packets online before. It's all the same information you get from capturing packets- and all 100% verifiable.
It doesn't matter who the heck intercepts them- there is NOTHING to trace back to you. It is some generic code messages (like STOP errors) that gives MS ideas on how to improve, or what is frequently causing problems and how to fix it.
LstBrunnenG
Supreme [H]ardness
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Oh please...the people on this forum are certainly an exception, but 99% of the Windows users out there can benefit from Vista talking to MS.
Whenever a program crashes in Vista, it searches for a solution to the problem. This often includes talking to a Microsoft server, to see if others have expereienced the problem and if there is a known solution. I know on my Tablet, the "solution center" or whatever they call it suggests that I download several new drivers from Toshiba that can fix a few of the problems I've been having. I think something like this is a good idea - Joe Sixpack isn't going to come to teh [H] with his problems, he's either going to mess with something he doesn't understand and screw things up worse, or he's going to give up in disgust.
The thing is, most of the time, Vista asks if it can send back data. It asks if it can search for a problem (I must have long ago told it to stop asking because it doesn't anymore). It asks if it can send what you search for in the control panel. It asks if you want to participate in the Customer Experience Improvement Program. I find it hard to believe that Microsoft would go to all the trouble of asking the user if it can collect this innocuous information, only to sneak in some kind of subroutine that routinely phones home without any heads up given to the user whatsoever. Either it's in the fine print already (WGA) or it asks (experience program).
If people like Duby could prove that MS actually was collecting personally identifiable data, then they would be on MS with a lawsuit faster than you can say, "Tinfoil hat!" That's why they have to ask whether they can collect the most innocuous of data (at least, innocuous unless you keep your kiddie porn in the control panel), because if they collected it without consumer consent there'd be hell to pay. That's why it's so hard to believe someone when they come in here with no proof and try to insinuate that MS is spying on us.
Personally, I think Duby just clicked through one of those experience program prompts or something without realizing it. Or maybe it was WGA, which is a seprate issue in and of itself. Personal data being sent without consent? Nah.
Wow, you just contradicted what you said earlier...
Oh really? Was it not you that said "Do some reverse lookups on the IP and DNS, that's some scary stuff you'll find in there"????
So, what happened to all these packets that you said you found Microsoft sending????
They vanish into thin air, along with your credibility?
Yea... it sucks down a whole 5Kbs of it
Microsoft has posted contents of their packets online before. It's all the same information you get from capturing packets- and all 100% verifiable.
It doesn't matter who the heck intercepts them- there is NOTHING to trace back to you. It is some generic code messages (like STOP errors) that gives MS ideas on how to improve, or what is frequently causing problems and how to fix it.
Maybe you should actually read what was said. Until then stop trolling
You left your nanny cam on, i saw the whole thing, but fraps would not record it, so now YOU have to believe ME!!!!!
That is perfectly fine if that is what you believe.. I dont have that much faith, and choose to be on the safe side... You asked the question, and I answered it.
If you didnt want me to go into it, then you shouldnt have asked the question.
You're the troll. I at least have backup for what I say. I'll re-quote myself and show you where you said it.
Found here.
So, what happened to all these packets that you said you found Microsoft sending????
They vanish into thin air, along with your credibility?[/quote]
[/QUOTE]
Dude, really? You honestly dont see it? You mean to tell me that you dont see it? Wow, just wow.
The only thing someone will need is the destination IP address and port number. Surely you could assemble this data rather easily?
Moderators have made "troll" a dirty word. You're not allowed to use it, even if people really ARE trolling!
In this case though zacdl, perhaps surprisingly, actually wasn't doing that with the comments posted which sparked off the initial name-calling. duby229 really DID do the things mentioned. Posted something which purported to be a big problem and claimed to have evidence of its existence, and when queried the evidence proved to be nothing other than tinfoil hat hysteric paranoia.
MS actually HAVE, on numerous occasions, made available details of information transmitted during the 'phone home' sessions which are part of normal operation. None of it is personally identifiable information and it defies credibility to suggest that it would be. Nothing is sent to Microsoft that the user hasn't agreed to have sent.
It's pleasing to see people rejecting the actual (on-topic) contention that Vista is somehow comparable to Windows Me. That's a poor analogy, because Me had so many genuine problems with features atually not working adequately, and Vista has so few. It's a poor analogy because Me was only a scant alteration to the underlying code base (with a few wires snipped and some 'added extras' jerry-rigged into place) whilst Vista is a substantial rewrite to a good deal of the underlying code.
Calling Vista the "new Me" is a trite and mischievous act, actually.
odoe
[H]F Junkie
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- 9,796
Tone it down in here please.
Thank you.
Thank you.
LstBrunnenG
Supreme [H]ardness
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I will admit that it's easy to be misled into thinking Vista is the new ME. Let's face it, the "new features" in ME could have been really cool, but they ended up being incomplete and in your face, emphasizing form over function. Either ME or 98 had this really annoying feature that was somewhat similar to the new sidebar, and it was almost uniformly turned off because it got in the way of the user.
I can see how it'd be easy for someone to look at Vista, see how they changed things to make them more flashy, then encounter a crash of some sort due to a beta driver, and then assume that Vista was another ME.
However, just as much as XP x64 was a significant jump as far as stability was concerned, Vista is even more of a jump, in usability as well. It just takes time for that to become apparent.
I can see how it'd be easy for someone to look at Vista, see how they changed things to make them more flashy, then encounter a crash of some sort due to a beta driver, and then assume that Vista was another ME.
However, just as much as XP x64 was a significant jump as far as stability was concerned, Vista is even more of a jump, in usability as well. It just takes time for that to become apparent.
Charlie is a nut. It's too bad because he seems to be an otherwise intelligent guy on other forums he posts on. This type of opinion article isn't unusual for him. He doesn't seem happy to just report news and rumors, he seeks the power to create "facts" based on his own personal agenda.
When theinq gets on a subject, truth ignored, it pollutes the Internet with lies and misrepresentations. Take a look at any of the ridiculous names theinq has created over the years to see how far this type of nonsense spreads. I guess there is ready supply of lemmings to follow any fool.
When theinq gets on a subject, truth ignored, it pollutes the Internet with lies and misrepresentations. Take a look at any of the ridiculous names theinq has created over the years to see how far this type of nonsense spreads. I guess there is ready supply of lemmings to follow any fool.