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Indie vs "BigDevs"

C

CrazyBernie

n00b
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
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19
Anyone else jumping the Big Dev ship lately? I've been playing a slew of indie games lately... Stuff like Amnesia: Dark Descent, Minecraft (Just a few more blocks... noooooooo! You *&^$% creepers! 0_o), Trine, etc. I've been on such an indie kick lately that I bought a slew of gift codes (World of Goo, Trine, Minecraft, The Humble Indie Bundle 2) and have been hosting a giveaway on another indie dev's forum (google "Basilisk Games," they make an old-school RPG that I'm a big fan of).

I did pick up Fallout: NV recently and I'm enjoying that, but with all the Big Dev's switching focus to consoles and "Movie" Games (All scripted sqeuences, etc.), the only good new stuff is being published by the little guys. They're not all as shiny and pretty as the AAA titles, but there's a shit-ton more gameplay. Seems like there's little reason to even look at the latest Call of Honor, Medal of Warfare #99 when you can always find something fresh for less from some little hole-in-the-wall studio (omg, I can buy a game and still have room for meals this month! woohoo! :D)

So it's been mostly indie games, or trips down memory lane via Good Old Games ('cause I really need to buy Heroes III or Duke Nukem 3D *again* :rolleyes:).

Anyways, I'll go back to my cave now.
 
Well one big advantage Indie devs have is they can experiment a lot. I really doubt a publisher would fund something like Minecraft if it didn't go through the public alpha/beta. They'd be like "So it's an open world... and everything is made out of blocks.. and you can build stuff..." not really seeing the possibilities behind it.

id basically started as an Indie team pumping out stuff like Commander Keen on shareware... wasn't until they made it big from Doom / Quake did they become a bigger studio.

But the disadvantage is most of these Indie games don't have the production value that some of the bigger games offer, which can be quite awesome.
 
There are gems and stinkers with both indie and AAA titles and I'd find it hard to compare the two in any significant way, except as Blazestorm said, indies can experiment (and fail) more than games with giant development and publishing budgets.

For every Minecraft there are dozens of Tetris and Breakout clones, likewise, the AAA titles tend to follow the latest and greatest subscription or DLC model or make endless sequels of a successful franchise. In between are the gems.
 
Minecraft isn't being made by an indie developer any longer. Notch has gotten just under 1 million people to pay him ~$10 so he is likely sitting on close to $10,000,000 right now. An indie developer that pulls in $10 mil isn't indie anymore. After taking that much money from people for an Alpha product, he should be in full swing with a decent QA team and developers that can clean up his code and make the game run better.
 
ocellaris said:
Minecraft isn't being made by an indie developer any longer. Notch has gotten just under 1 million people to pay him ~$10 so he is likely sitting on close to $10,000,000 right now. An indie developer that pulls in $10 mil isn't indie anymore. After taking that much money from people for an Alpha product, he should be in full swing with a decent QA team and developers that can clean up his code and make the game run better.
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It's too bad that Sweden is taking half. Mayhap it's time for notch to divorce himself from his homeland... :D After the cost of starting up a development studio is factored in, I wouldn't go declaring him a non-indie shop just yet. He still has to finish the game, and there's the question of longevity...

eggrock said:
There are gems and stinkers with both indie and AAA titles and I'd find it hard to compare the two in any significant way, except as Blazestorm said, indies can experiment (and fail) more than games with giant development and publishing budgets.

For every Minecraft there are dozens of Tetris and Breakout clones, likewise, the AAA titles tend to follow the latest and greatest subscription or DLC model or make endless sequels of a successful franchise. In between are the gems.
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Maybe so. But for me there's a lot more indie games as of late that are entertaining and worth my purchasing than there are AAA titles.
 
Me.

The big devs for the most part are putting out huge money making machines that are just pretty much shit, there are very few big games I've enjoyed in the last year, it's all just generic console rubbish now and I've more or less done away with big game purchases.

I very much enjoyed trine, I've enjoyed a bit of defence grid over the xmas period, I'm tempted to get Amnesia:TDD. VVVVVV was really good, Eufloria was not bad, same for Osmos.

Everyone should do themselves a favour and grab Trine and VVVVVV they were probably the more enjoyable games in recent times.

Of the large titles, I think Fallout New Vegas was very much a flawed masterpiece, Dragon Age Origins was also very good, these games both provided with me about 70 hours of gameplay each. Honestly I can't think of anything else right now that has impressed me over the last few years, Metro2033 was good I guess, I liked the graphics and sneaking, but meh...nothing else.
 
ocellaris said:
Minecraft isn't being made by an indie developer any longer. Notch has gotten just under 1 million people to pay him ~$10 so he is likely sitting on close to $10,000,000 right now. An indie developer that pulls in $10 mil isn't indie anymore. After taking that much money from people for an Alpha product, he should be in full swing with a decent QA team and developers that can clean up his code and make the game run better.
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One would think that what you wrote would be the natural way of things, however Notch didn't do it that way. He is still the only one coding Minecraft, there are 3 other people working at this place now, one of them is his friend doing something unspecified, one of them is a coder and Notch's new business partner developing a new game, one of them is a business manager, and then he has a lawyer on retainer. That's it. Don't expect any ground breaking Minecraft development ever, it's basically an abandoned project he only works on when he has absolutely nothing else to do.

CrazyBernie said:
It's too bad that Sweden is taking half.
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Typical Republican propaganda. European business taxes are on average not higher than US taxes. Also, rich people pay a lot fewer taxes than they are intended to pay. For example, you owe 5 million in taxes, you pay a lawyer 1 million to figure out how to only owe 1 million, and you walk away with the other 3 you used to owe.

Notch has gotten very rich over a short period of time, and that would change anyone.

EDIT: I actually looked this up and the Swedish corporate tax rate is 26.3% of profits, which is higher than in most US states, but nonetheless, that's tax on profits not tax on sales.
 
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Thuleman said:
One would think that what you wrote would be the natural way of things, however Notch didn't do it that way. He is still the only one coding Minecraft, there are 3 other people working at this place now, one of them is his friend doing something unspecified, one of them is a coder and Notch's new business partner developing a new game, one of them is a business manager, and then he has a lawyer on retainer. That's it. Don't expect any ground breaking Minecraft development ever, it's basically an abandoned project he only works on when he has absolutely nothing else to do.
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FWIW, his latest blog post contradicts that statement on multiple fronts. *shrug* I got my $13 worth out of the game a long time ago. Regardless, it's his cash cow... there shouldn't be any reason that he wouldn't keep milking it with continued development.

Thuleman said:
Typical Republican propaganda. European business taxes are on average not higher than US taxes. Also, rich people pay a lot fewer taxes than they are intended to pay. For example, you owe 5 million in taxes, you pay a lawyer 1 million to figure out how to only owe 1 million, and you walk away with the other 3 you used to owe.

Notch has gotten very rich over a short period of time, and that would change anyone.

EDIT: I actually looked this up and the Swedish corporate tax rate is 26.3% of profits, which is higher than in most US states, but nonetheless, that's tax on profits not tax on sales.
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Actually, it was just me looking at the wrong figures. No propaganda here. :p
 
I buy whatever games I like. That includes many indie games as well as games from large publishers and developers. I don't discriminate; if a game is good, it gets my money.
 
Zero82z said:
I buy whatever games I like. That includes many indie games as well as games from large publishers and developers. I don't discriminate; if a game is good, it gets my money.
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Ditto. There's a lot of shit indie games as there are a lot of shit big dev games. I buy the games I think are good regardless of who they are made by (unless they are made by Ubisoft with their shit DRM in which case even if its a good game I wont buy it unless its dirt cheap).
 
Tudz said:
Ditto. There's a lot of shit indie games as there are a lot of shit big dev games. I buy the games I think are good regardless of who they are made by (unless they are made by Ubisoft with their shit DRM in which case even if its a good game I wont buy it unless its dirt cheap).
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Ah more off topic Ubisoft bashing... I think its amusing that Ubisoft gets dragged into everything when Steam, GFWL, and some EA games on the 360 all do the same shit of not letting you save/launch/progress if you go offline.
 
I kinda disagree Bethesda, Valve, Bioware are all triple A devs are accountable for the most part are still gamers making games.

I am however a big fan of Tripwire who is a publisher maing themselves available to Indie developers who are looking for support to cross that line between indie dev and triple A.
 
I guess I'm just getting tired of the "Milk a franchise for all it's worth," mass market strategy that all the big dev's are using. That and all of the review sites that give the same "glowing" reviews 'cause they're getting paid to do so.

You could say it's a result of market saturation but with the indie studios coming out with new and fresh spins on gameplay, it's hard to believe that. It's a shame that the little guys have to struggle to release a product that's on the same level (or higher) as the big dogs.

Maybe it's just me, not being a mass-market zombie... 0_o
 
ocellaris said:
Ah more off topic Ubisoft bashing... I think its amusing that Ubisoft gets dragged into everything when Steam, GFWL, and some EA games on the 360 all do the same shit of not letting you save/launch/progress if you go offline.
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It wasn't off topic until you replied. ;) I was just stating I dont care whether a game is from a big dev or an indie dev though one thing I do care about is retard DRM, like Ubisoft's.
 
Honestly, I prefer Big Devs. Why? I prefer most of my gaming experience to be over the top, big budgeted cinematic type experiences. Very few Indy devs can pull this off, but there are some small developers I do enjoy.

I'm loving The Witcher, and I love some XBLA titles from smaller devs but the majority of my gaming experiences thirst for blockbuster exposure, something an indy dev cannot provide me. I am willing to overlook glaring corporate shenanigans because honestly..

I dont give a shit about any of it, just give me a game. Close/buy studios.. shit if I care. As long as there are games I enjoy.. I'm happy and all the political/corporate nonsense matters very very little to me. Also, I work for a large corporation so I understand that shit happens and its how large businesses have to operate in order to stay ahead of the curve. I certainly never buy Indy to support some kind of hip sub counter culture thats for sure.

Games is all I care about, big devs or indy. However by and large the big devs are producing the type of experiences I am looking for.
 
It's all good to me, but some of my favorite recent games have been indie. Mount&Blade (and Warband), Evochron Mercenary, and Din's Curse, for example.
 
Any small Indie studio is one hit game away from becoming a big studio. I think its the publishers that ruin gaming studios because they care more about making money off the game.
 
A good game is a good game :) regardless if it comes from a small indie dev or a large corporate development studio.
 
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