In-line/series pumps?

H

H2R2P2

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 18, 2006
Messages
411
I built a new 7700K system with misc. parts I had sitting around. Here are the parts I am using:

GA-Z270X-Gaming 9
7700K (Edit- CPU is *not* de-lidded at this point. Delidder has arrived, but not had time to do yet).
Corsair Vengence LPX 32GB Kit- 4000MHz (Only using 16GB currently as I misplaced a stick somewhere.. DOH!!!!)
2x 1080ti's (no sli bridge in there at the moment)
Samsung NVME Drive (believe its an OEM 940; purchased it out of Australia long time back)
32GB Optane (figured it would be fun to screw around with)

I did all custom water cooling on it. Motherboard has an EK waterblock on the VRM's. CPU has an AquaComputer Cuplex Kyros .925 Silver Edition water block. I have water blocks for the video cards too (heatkillers), but dont have them installed yet so I am currently only water cooling the CPU and MB VRM's. Radiator I have in there now is a HW Labs Nemesis GTR 420 with three Noctua NF-A14 Industrial 140mm fans. I also had a Koolance flowrate monitor, so I threw that on as well.

I originally installed a Thermaltake PR22-D5 adjustable speed pump (with silent kit) and thought it would be enough to get the system going for testing purposes. However, the pump wasnt strong enough to push **ANY** coolant through the entire system. All the components were pre-filled before I installed them and all have quick disconnects so its easy to fill then install. Long story short here is no matter what I did, I couldnt get it to pump through the entire system. The speed setting was set on its highest setting and was able to pump through each item individually, but not the entire system.

I had another D5 pump (an EK model) so I decided to hook them up in series just to see what would happen. Lo and behold its now working! I have never seen anyone do this (do an inline pump setup) so thought I would ask here for help/advice on whether this is a good thing to do. The flowrate is currently 1.4 liters/minute with both pumps (and 0 if only one).

I have the CPU and motherboard plumed together via hard tubing. The only way I could easily lower pressure here would be to separate the VRM's into their own loop, which I suppose I could do with a 140mm out the back, but that seems rather excessive for VRM's.

Do people do in-line pumps like this? If not, is there another pump I should be looking at? Eheim? Also- how on earth an I going to integrate the video cards into this if I am already at a low'ish flow rate with dual D5's?

Second pump is jimmy rigged in there right now, so dont judge me on the bad looks. Here is a screen shot of the system running:

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Last edited: Saturday at 3:22 AM
 
If a single D5 can't pump through that whole system then I think you have a bad D5 or there's something seriously inhibiting your flow.
 
I concur with the above. Something doesn't seem right. I have a system with a single D5 pumping through CPU, GPU, and two highly restrictive radiators (original Black Ice GTS and Black Ice GTX Gen 2), and it didn't have any flow issues.

People have been putting pumps in series since almost the beginning of custom watercooling. There is nothing new or dangerous about it, and is preferred to parallel. However, it generally is not recommended to have a reservoir for each pump for in series operation. A system should only have one reservoir per loop.
 
I was thinking something was up with the pump as well. I bought several Thermaltake D5's during a holiday sale they had this year and this is the second pump from them I have run into an issue like this with. I will give it a shot with just the EK D5 and see what happens. I could do some research into how restrictive the EK block on the VRM's is too, but I agree a D5 should have no issue with anything I am doing.

And thanks for the tip about not having a second reservoir. While I knew having pumps in series isnt anything new or earth shattering, I had never run across anyone documenting it (nor could I find as much via searching).

Thanks again to the both of you for your help!
 
I have dual ddc 3.2s in series, they've been running strong since 08. I used two pumps more for redundancy than anything else. If I pull the power on one, the other still runs, just at a lower flow rate obviously. Covers me if a pump fails while I'm not at the pc.
 
Thanks for the help and suggestions everyone! I picked up the XSPC in line pump reservoir Tsumi suggested. Should be here in a few days. I have not had a chance to try just the EKWB D5 by iteslf, but going to try that just to see if I maybe have a weak D5 from Thermaltake. I do have one more question for everyone though..

Is it possible the tube diameter I am using is too large? Obviously lowering the tube diameter would increase pressure but maybe the volume of water I am asking the pump to push is too large. Internal diameter of the tubing I am using is 1/2" so its quite large.
 
H2R2P2 said:
Thanks for the help and suggestions everyone! I picked up the XSPC in line pump reservoir Tsumi suggested. Should be here in a few days. I have not had a chance to try just the EKWB D5 by iteslf, but going to try that just to see if I maybe have a weak D5 from Thermaltake. I do have one more question for everyone though..

Is it possible the tube diameter I am using is too large? Obviously lowering the tube diameter would increase pressure but maybe the volume of water I am asking the pump to push is too large. Internal diameter of the tubing I am using is 1/2" so its quite large.
Click to expand...
My tubing id is 1/2" and a single ddc will push through a mono block, gpu, triple 120mm thermochill rad, single 120mm swiftech rad, AND the other ddc pump without power. You should be fine I think.
 
H2R2P2 said:
Thanks for the help and suggestions everyone! I picked up the XSPC in line pump reservoir Tsumi suggested. Should be here in a few days. I have not had a chance to try just the EKWB D5 by iteslf, but going to try that just to see if I maybe have a weak D5 from Thermaltake. I do have one more question for everyone though..

Is it possible the tube diameter I am using is too large? Obviously lowering the tube diameter would increase pressure but maybe the volume of water I am asking the pump to push is too large. Internal diameter of the tubing I am using is 1/2" so its quite large.
Click to expand...
A single D5 should be MORE than enough for everything in your loop with 1/2" tubing. The quick disconnects do add some restriction to be sure but even then you should be way more than fine. Dual D5s is a lot of overkill... Not saying don't do it just saying you shouldn't need it if things are working correctly.
 
With all them rgb leds, I can't make much out from your pics. Is that the connection from the Kyros to the vrm going around the left side of the cpu block? Clearly you have a flow problem. Being able to see how you routed that connection would be helpful.
 
thesmokingman said:
With all them rgb leds, I can't make much out from your pics. Is that the connection from the Kyros to the vrm going around the left side of the cpu block? Clearly you have a flow problem. Being able to see how you routed that connection would be helpful.
Click to expand...

Here is a better picture:

upload_2018-1-4_1-11-53.png


All the fittings used are quick disconnect except on the PETG hard tubing portion. The inlet of the CPU block has an extension and a fitting that attaches directly to a quick disconnect. The outlet of the CPU block goes to the top inlet of the VRM water block via PETG hard tubing. Outlet of the VRM cooler has another quick disconnect fitting attached directly and goes to inlet of radiator. Outlet of radiator goes to flow meter which has two 90 degree turns then goes to reservoir.
 
H2R2P2 said:
Here is a better picture:

All the fittings used are quick disconnect except on the PETG hard tubing portion. The inlet of the CPU block has an extension and a fitting that attaches directly to a quick disconnect. The outlet of the CPU block goes to the top inlet of the VRM water block via PETG hard tubing. Outlet of the VRM cooler has another quick disconnect fitting attached directly and goes to inlet of radiator. Outlet of radiator goes to flow meter which has two 90 degree turns then goes to reservoir.
Click to expand...

Omg, that's a lot of added restriction with them QDC. Remove them all. You don't have a gpu blocked thus no need for QDC (ie. usually used to swap gpus easily), unless you tend to swap cpus a lot? Plumb just one pump. Remove added flow restriction such as your flow meter. If you must have a flow meter, put it on the QDCs so you can insert it when you are curious. When plumbing series pumps, plumb them inline ie. no extra res/pump tops needed.
 
H2R2P2 said:
Thanks for the help and suggestions everyone! I picked up the XSPC in line pump reservoir Tsumi suggested. Should be here in a few days. I have not had a chance to try just the EKWB D5 by iteslf, but going to try that just to see if I maybe have a weak D5 from Thermaltake. I do have one more question for everyone though..

Is it possible the tube diameter I am using is too large? Obviously lowering the tube diameter would increase pressure but maybe the volume of water I am asking the pump to push is too large. Internal diameter of the tubing I am using is 1/2" so its quite large.
Click to expand...

I was running 1/2" ID tubing in the system I mentioned. Volume has nothing to do with it.

The D5 is a high volume oriented pump. In actual fact, while the D5 can push larger flow rates than the DDC, the DDC can achieve higher head pressure.
 
thesmokingman said:
Omg, that's a lot of added restriction with them QDC. Remove them all. You don't have a gpu blocked thus no need for QDC (ie. usually used to swap gpus easily), unless you tend to swap cpus a lot? Plumb just one pump. Remove added flow restriction such as your flow meter. If you must have a flow meter, put it on the QDCs so you can insert it when you are curious. When plumbing series pumps, plumb them inline ie. no extra res/pump tops needed.
Click to expand...

I agree with this poster. All the QDC are adding too much restriction. I think u are just running to many qdc's. Be interesting to see your temp difference after u get your flow straighten out + cpu delidded
 
I have a bit of an update. I hooked up just the XSPC D5 pump by itself and was able to get 1 - 1.5 LP/Min on my flow rate meter whereas the Thermaltake D5 pump had no flow. Again, the Thermaltake D5 is a "silent" variant but has the pump speed turned all the way up. So for whatever reason, the Thermaltake "silent" D5 simply isnt as strong as those sold by others. I also tried hooking up a tube and blowing through each component to see if I could subjectively tell where the majority of resistance was coming from. My observation is the EKWB VRM waterblock is (comparatively) the most restrictive component in the system.

I tried a similar "blow" test on the quick disconnects and they dont seem to be much of an issue. I was able to find the specs on them:

upload_2018-1-5_0-14-24.png


According to the chart, there isnt any appreciable load/resistance created by the quick disconnects until you exceed 2 liters/min flow rate. I wasnt even at 2L/Min when using the dual pumps last time around, so this info does corroborate my subjective test as well.

As I stated earlier, I initially planned to install Aquacomputer waterblocks on the video cards too (have Dual Titan XP's).

I ordered a dual D5 XSPC reservoir and it arrived today. Does anyone have advice as to how much flow I am going to lose by adding two video cards? Will my current XSPC with 1 - 1.5L/Min flow be enough? Or should I put the dual D5 and reservoir in?
 
I have the system back up and running (finally).....

I did a de-lid, re-lid on the 7700K and am using only the EKWB D5 pump. My flow meter is registering 1.4 L/Min so flow is only a little less than the in-line pump setup with the Thermaltake Silent D5. Here is a screen shot of the temps; they are significantly lower:

upload_2018-1-5_4-55-50.png
 
5ghz.JPG
H2R2P2 said:
I have the system back up and running (finally).....

I did a de-lid, re-lid on the 7700K and am using only the EKWB D5 pump. My flow meter is registering 1.4 L/Min so flow is only a little less than the in-line pump setup with the Thermaltake Silent D5. Here is a screen shot of the temps; they are significantly lower:

View attachment 48835
Click to expand...

One D5 is Plenty, Looks good to go. Not benching might as well undervolt, gaming and just messing around, should be able to get buy with around 1.28-1.33v, runs a good bit cooler. It's really cold out, and having harder time keeping the house warm...but right now where it's falling into a lot, Doing really well. Pretty good for no delid. I'm not Brave enough to try agian with a Razor blade/vice after messing up last cpu....fail...lol, but i do have some Liquid pro, just need to get delid tool and some RTV Silicone to reseal it.

Definitely Recommend the Thermal Grizzly though, doing a Hair better than both MX4 and the Ectotherm.

Kinda want to put a Glycol solution in...I lost evaporated about an inch in the rez with the Lid off just leaving it running....so closed it back up. Idk whatever with the cryofuel solution.
 
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Definitely Need to go Rad first before the Block too. I swear it's always been cooler. Despite many say it doesn't matter, Iv'e tried both, always been a little cooler. That was Block First and yeah 67c stuff, Rad first more like 60-62c
 
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