Improving the Aspire X Qpack? Design idea changes! (long)

[diasper]

Lurker and first post - well done in advance anyone who reads to the bottom of this

I've been interested in trying out SFF and ended up checking out various SFF cases. There's not much in the way of choice but of all the cases the Aspire QPack seemed the closest, but I reckon their ways of improving it by a large margin. Fundamentally, by improving airflow cooling and reducing noise emissions.

But, I'll say this now; the Qpack is a nice case, I just happen to think it can be nicer.

Anyway, I just wanted to see what you guys thought of the designs changes I had in mind and also what you'd like to see change.

For reference here's the recent Anandtech review on it.



The Short:


Areas to improve/problems
- Inability to fit much in the way of (decent) cooling and when installing cooling lack of clear airflow eg front to back. (Here to see the lack of good direct airflow + limitation of best heatsink being the Zalman 7000CU)
- Poor noise isolation ie the case metal is rather flimsy but what doesn't help is the grills on the side of the case which allows sound to escape directly. As seen here.
- Where are the dust filters? It's bad enough cleaning stuff in a big case but a SFF case just makes it harder. (Same link as above)



Basic suggestions
- Improved airflow where there's clear front to back airflow. Good clear airflow becomes more important as the case gets smaller so any heat produced you want leaving immediately. There are several design changes so they'll be gone through later.
- Reducing noise escaping by not have a direct path for noise to escape to your ears using ideas a bit like what the Antec P180 and P150 use on their front bezels.
- By introducing dust filters that are easily accessed and washed.
- Including right angle molex connectors (or other low profile molex connectors as first suggested here at hardofurms for the front opticals so that standard ATX PSU's can be used with full length optical drives. Their very cheap to include and so there's no reason they aren't.


Additional:
- Other noise reducing features:
1. fan speed controller (for the back fan and maybe the CPU fan) integrated into the controls of the front panel rather than it just being temp probes
2. rubber grommets for the back fan
3. rubber grommets for the hardrive or even better having hardrive suspension (ala the P150)
4. Including some sound dapening layer to the case eg like the P150 has a Vinyl layer inside the metal.


The long...


Design Changes:


Changing the front bezel - improving airflow, reducing noise.

The most radical change I'd like to see is how and where the air intakes are at the front. If you look on the case there is arguably a good part of the front bezel wasted that could be used as air intakes as opposed to having them slap against the side of the hardrive as a direct sound outlet while it does not provide great cooling for the hardrives - only one side gets cooled. Instead, if the air intakes were moved forward to where the ridged part of the front bezel is and then opened up onto the inside of the case such that it is a direct front-back airflow, both airflow would be improved so that:

a) the hardrives are cooled better and more evenly
b) RAM are also cooled better and more evenly
c) the rest of the mainboard gets cooled better with cool air

(Of course, this is reliant on having clear directional airflow in the case especially with the CPU but I'll mention the design changes to achieve this later)

Some pictures to explain more clearly what I mean - apologies in advance for the pathetic paint jobs involved but I hope it gets what I mean across!

The area of the front bezel that is wasted and could be used as intakes is highlighted in red:

Intakes where highlighted in red

And have a vent design more akin to the P150 as seen here.

While it may not be as possible on SFF or may increase production costs too significantly, if the intakes could be made recessed where the intakes are more 'open' to the back it would help improve noise perception eg more sound reflected to the back away from the users ears.

What this would mean for the internal design is that now air intake now comes directly front the front.

Again excuse the poor paint job but here's an idea:

Airflow inside the case idea

The whole of the front sections to the side of the opticals would be open and let airflow through. In that way In that way you can hopefully see the more direct airflow and how the hardrives etc would be cooled more effectively without sound needlessly leaking to the outside.

Things to consider: while the airflow through the case should be pretty clear and unrestrictive the front bezel will probably needed to be extended by a few millimetres to ensure the air intakes on the side of the bezel are open enough to let sufficient airflow through so there is not too much negative air pressure in the case - the dangers if there is too much negative air pressure, it might adversely affect the PSU as the PSU fan ends up struggling and spinning louder - important when we're trying to reduce noise. (In fact in my case recently, until I enforced positive air pressure my Zalman PSU was making constant quite high pitched clicking noises - some Seasonic users in Anandtech have experienced similar problems).

Hopefully, however, this shouldn't be too much of an issue because if a fuller length graphics card is installed (a situation where cooling would become more important and cooling would need to increase) two airflow channels/areas will be created to some degree (given the two intake areas from each side of the case) so the PSU shouldn't have to as directly compete with the 120mm rear exhaust.

Nevertheless, this will mean the case will probably need to be a few millimetres longer. However, since it is a small amount it shouldn't make any perceivably difference to the end user. Also, some small other changes will need to be made - primarily where there aren't filters their shouldn't be any air holes. At this point it's worth adding that ideally airflow could come from the area underneath the optical drives so that airflow can go directly to any northbridge/southbridge parts.

The area I'm talking about is highlighted in red again.

However, implementing this with a filter that you can access and clean easily will be difficult unless there the front panel is easily removable. Also, I'm not sure how easy this would be to implement give the cables and front bezel electronics around there.

There are two ways of having the filters easily accessible. The easiest and first would be where there was some sort of latch design at the top of the bezel where the bit of case above the filters could be flicked up and then the filters slid out. (The way I'd imagine would be easiest to implement is sliding them into metal runners.) Alternatively, a latch design could be incorporated onto the side of the case- ie. the grills on the side could be popped off and the filters slid out. The only other alternative is to have the whole front bezel removable like what most cases do. Of course, this may not be as desirable or as perceived of as much of an easy solution for the average user. However, more importantly it made add significant production cost. That said it would probably be the easiest way a filter underneath the opticals could be cleaned and used.

In fact having just re-looked at the P150 design the idea of a swinging bezel is quite attractive as seen here



Improving airflow around the hardrives - more optional perhaps

Despite the vertical mounting of the hardrives which aides cooling as the heat easily rises from the harddrives (ie doesn't get caught underneath it), airflow is still not very good. As you can see here airflow around the hardrives is relatively restricted by the metal brackets that keep them in place.

There are ways I can see where the amount of metal could be minimised so there is more airflow around the hardrives. However, the best solution I can see is to have the hardrives suspended vertically. The P150 has an option like this as seen here at SPCR. The advantages here is that it minimises materials restricting airflow around the drives while also helping reducing vibrations and thus sound from the hardrives.

Implementing this vertically in the Qpack would be more difficult but it is still perfectly doable. The suspension would have to be supported from the bottom of the case. I could imagine a sort of TT bars coming from the bottom to support it - in this way it'd also not restrict airflow from the lower area intake to the motherboard (RAM, CPU, NB). Ensuring the bars is strong enough at the top to support the weight of the hardrives and tension of the cables would be more difficult but there are ways round it I could see. (eg if the case was made in separate parts ie according to sides hooks could be implement on the top side of the case. (of course, that part of the case would probably have to be made stronger to take the weight but refer to the part on using sound proofing materials on the case as that will add strength to it)

In short, the ideal solution would be to have the drives suspended vertically. At the very least rubber grommets should be included for sound isolation for the hardrives.



On the rest - improving cooling to the CPU

A large part of the problem with SFF is fitting a decent heatsink in it. Currently, the best options for the Qpack is the Zalman 7000 which while decent is nothing special and more important does not aide in clear airflow which is the much more important for smaller cases than standard ATX cases - fundamentally there needs to be simple front intake to back exhaust airflow.

This can be seen here

In the Qpack the options for heatsink are limited in two ways. First the Qpack has a metal bar running the entire length above the CPU preventing a taller heatsink being used. Then secondly, the hardrives restricted what can be placed in there. In tackling this there are limitations of what can be done. However, significant stuff can be changed giving a good amount of flexibility.

First the bar can be reduced if not moved. Irregardless of how the hardrives are mounted (suspended or fixed) they can be supported from the bottom of the case - without the horizontal bar. The bar as seen in the last picture certainly does not need to be that excessive. It can be reduced so there isn't metal directly above the CPU socket. The metal there is not also helpful as it restricts airflow from the CPU to the exhaust fan. Therefore, with a simple modification you can kill two birds in one stone. If the bar on that side of the case was moved it could be moved to a more traditional position of the running the length of the top corner. While, the fan would then need to be moved down slightly that wouldn't be a problem. Additionally, the bar could also be used to support the hardrives and how they are mounted.

Secondly, the hardrives can pushed forward a little bit more so they are right against the front bezel. This will save some millimetres but that can become a very significant amount as a more vertical and directional heatsink could be included.

Heatsinks this includes are:
Artic Cooling 64 Pro
Asetek Vapochill Micro Ultra Low Noise (nb is actually a good cooler - just use the DFI mounting mechanism to give much better contact and lower temps - poor contact is the reason why some review sites report great performance and others poor performance)
Zalman 9500

Of the coolers mentioned above it seems the Zalman would be the cooler most likely to fit in (presuming when mounted it points to the rear exhaust).

Nevertheless, the benefits for having such coolers are numerous. As well, as much better temps from a better heatsink, the air gets immediately exhausted at the back lowering ambient temperatures and temps yet again. At the same time, such direction airflow+heatsink will mean much increased airflow around the hardrives and then also the the northerbridge and RAM hopefully.

With such a setup a system could be cooled better at lower noise - in fact it could probably be overclocked at near silent.

However, depending on the heatsink and board, such heatsinks might not work. Certainly, for any of those heatsinks to be able to work properly, the CPU position on the motherboard will have to be much more central if not closer to the rear fan of the Qpack. In fact in the Anandtech review the position of the CPU socket on motherboard is actually closer to the hardrive area and so it can't be taken as representative of how the heatsink could fit in.

That said, there is an alternative I could see and that is if a heatsink design like that of the Akasa Evo 120 was used. You can see it here. Certainly, such a design would work - with the Akasa you could effectively have a 120mm heatsink in your case! That might in fact be too big given the rear fan is only a 120mm thing itself. Perhaps a 92mm design based on the Akasa would be perfect.

This comes onto another possible idea that Aspire include a heatsink in their case. For enthusiasts (which account for many who the case sells to) and perhaps P4 owners (sorry - not actually a dig!) this would be a very important and winning feature. Aspire could even get Akasa to produce the fans for them or otherwise license the design of them. In bulk and a corporate deal like that would not add too much cost but would make it much more attractive. In fact, if Aspire was to target such a case at enthusiasts they could easily dump the PSU and add the heatsink and it would come out at about parative cost. All they would need to do is ensure they included right angle molex connectors or so and it'd be fine!

In fact, one idea that could be used is that Aspire could one copy of the case with the PSU included and no heatsink, and another copy without the PSU but with the heatsink - in doing this they can target both markets at once - the stock user build on the cheap and the enthusiast looking for performance and who would use their own PSU.



Reducing case noise otherwise

As has already been mentioned ways to reduce noise would be:
- the rear 120mm fan mounted on rubber grommets
- a fan controller for the rear fan (and maybe CPU) included in the front bezel controls or at the very least speed settings on the rear fan

However, there is a further measure that could be taken and that of adding an extra layer to the aluminium case. The material could be something like the vinyll coating that the P150 uses - bottom picture. Benefits include:
- increased sound proofing
- a more robust case ie less worries about the case being flimsy or getting dented as some people with Qpacks have complained about
- increased strength generally to the case and the sides - it would probably add enough strength that hooks could be added to the top part to suspend the hardrives

Additionally:
- it wouldn't add much weight so would still be fine for lanparties
- cost shouldn't be much extra



Summary
Change the front bezel for direct airflow
Use filters (although not too fine as to restricted airflow)
Suspend the hardrives / otherwise minimise the restrictive metal and include rubber grommets.
Include right angle molex's or other solution for full length opticals / standard ATX power supplies.
Get rid of the PSU
Remove the metal bar running along the CPU side of the case
Add a 92mm special side blowing heatsink ala Akasa.
Use rubber grommets to mount the rear 120mm fan

More optional:
Fan controller (and perhaps CPU) included in the controls on the front.


Oh yeah and the case should be produced (without windows) in black and silver

 

[Dillusion]

It does have a windowless version, made by chieftec.

 

[diasper]

Yep I know - well in the UK Aspire make them themselves. I was just saying they shouldn't bother with the windows if the case was sound dapened eg vinyll inside.

Gimme sleek and simple.

 

[Dillusion]

Yep I know - well in the UK Aspire make them themselves. I was just saying they shouldn't bother with the windows if the case was sound dapened eg vinyll inside.

Gimme sleek and simple.

yeah, i took those pos stock windows out and am replacing them with black plexiglass

 

[Ubermouser]

your ideas seem very doable, in fact, Once the X-Qpack I've sent out for arrives, I believe I'll do some temperature readings to see if any of your ideas lower the temperature of any of the parts in the computer case.

However, I should mention that the amount of clearance between the front of the case and the rear of the bezel is as tight as can be - theres not even a millimeter of wiggle room between the two. The only area in which the case widens out is where the USB, firewire, microphone and headphone jacks are, and then only slightly, by less than half a centimeter.

 

[kumquat]

I disagree with some of your airflow ideas.

First, I don't beleive that the vent holes are the result of randomness. Adding vent holes randomly won't necessarily make things better. The trick is to use just enough holes to maximize airflow while strategically placing them in order to create airflow through the areas of the case that are the hottest. The existing holes appear to accomplish this, as I get a ton of airflow out the back of the case and the holes seem positioned to create airflow over the motherboard and hard drive.

Second, I don't like filters because of how much they restrict airflow. I know I'm probably alone on that one.

Third, the fan controller and additional materials for "sound-proofing" and so forth. This case is obviously designed to be a value case. It retails for less than $90. It's also meant to be exceptionally lightweight and portable. Adding rubber, vinyl, aluminum, and unnecessary electronics will raise the weight as well as the price.

None of your design change ideas, except perhaps adding rubber hard drive mounts, seems to be a solution to any actual problem with the QPack. I think that any discussion such as this should BEGIN with a discussion on what the limitations of the QPack are, and THEN discuss possible solutions to those limitations.

 

[Devii]

All I'd want is slightly thicker metals used, increased area for CPU fan, and increased case structure/stability.

Vent slits, or more air flow intake from the handle area (just remove the useless thing and put a large slit there, hidden from view).

 

[Jelic]

Heh, I think they're good ideas, but the X-Qpack is indeed a budget case for the most part, if Aspire would come out with a more enthusiast targeted version with these suggestions, it would be perfect. But, the enthusiast market is a bit of a niche so I really can't say... but it was a great read ^_^

 

[Soymilk]

holy crap long. i read the "short" section and i was like dam that was long, and then i saw the next part was labeled the long section.

sound dampening materials lining the case would be bad for the temps though, cuz the aluminum shell acts as a heatsink for the entire case. line it with vinyl or whatever, and heat wont be able to transfer out directly through there as well as the exhaust fan.

 

[Solar]

Diasper,
My first thought was: “hmmm sounds like you want an aria with better cooling…” but after reading your suggestions and digesting them here's what I have to say:

First question, do you own one? This has no bearing on my judgement of your ideas I'm just curious.

In response to the front bezel, an aesthetically pleasing bezel that also included a useful amount of intake of some sort on either a SFF or HTPC case does not readily come to mind. So you'd be hard pressed to sway my opinion on wanting a bezel with an intake of some sort. The side intake idea is nice but from what I know of the case (I don't own one) I don't think that the side vents were ever intended to be used as a major entry or exit point of air for the case, more just making the case breathable. From what I read, the temps in this case are pretty good, I'm sure you've read that too. As always more ways for air to move around the case can't hurt. I do think though that the front bezel could lose the handle, as it’s more of a gimmick than anything else. I believe it could also take on a more refined, maybe living room-ready, look (I.E. Silverstone SG-01, Shuttle XPC or A-Open XC Cube). I think I remember reading in one of these threads that someone e-mailed Aspire and received the response that the company was indeed designing a new front which would be out in 5-6 month's time. Hopefully this will have some intake improvements, but don't quote me on that.

The hard drive idea is straight up cool. I haven't read the SPCR review yet, but I just saw the P150 design after you brought it to light in this post and I think Antec is doing what they do best, innovating in the mid-tower segment. (Now if only they would revamp their Aria and then we'd have an SFF ball game between that and the Qpack!) I sometimes think about the arrangement of the Qpack's hard drives. But from the pictures I've see and the ways other SFF cases tackle this issue I think Aspire has managed space very well because you can fit the a full length graphics cards in there with 2 DVD drives and not have an overly wide case and still have space left over for 3 more 3.5" slots. Vertically mounting the drives using the same suspension mechanisms as the P150 though leads me to believe that the drives will slip to the bottom of the case, not hanging in the middle of the twists, as displayed in the picture. I believe a teardrop type sling used to hang the HDs from the top of the case might solve this task better. But with this idea comes the question of lateral g's as the HDs are simply swinging at will now...

Looking at improving the amount of useable area above the heatsink, the use of an arch comes to mind. The arch would go from the lower front corner of the case thin out as much as possible at it's apex towards the middle and grow again as it reaches the back of the case. The arch would not touch the bottom as the bottom is still a removable tray. This would allow the rear area to be more useable as the support for the rigidity of the case comes from the side arch as opposed to a crossbar. A few problems arise when using this design. First, the hard drive slots are no longer supported. It's possible that you could simply weld the HD frame to the arch, but that would make installing the HD's, traditionally or with the new suspension method, ten times harder. Second is the fact that the window, for those who buy the windowed case (there are quite a few of you) would be severely obscured. Aspire could possibly reshape both side windows as a result, giving the interesting shape of hump windows or just leave one partially obscured and still use the rectangle shaped windows. In the non-windowed version, this wouldn't be a problem, but in the windowed version I could see many people being turned off by the unusual window shape, and other being attracted by its non-traditional approach. Also because I don't have an X-Qpack, I don't know how feasible this would be, in terms installing components, as it would definitely cut down the amount of working space accessibility, from the side, at least. Again the issue of cost and weight comes into the picture with this arch idea, while it does free up space over the CPU, how much more will this thing weigh and how much more will it cost from this update alone?

I personally like the ability to choose my own heatsink to put into my system, once you start bundling a heatsink, I start to feel like the motherboard bundle isn't too far behind. The word Shuttle comes to mind, for some funny reason... While I am jumping to conclusions, I think that more space above the CPU area is where that idea should rest. Kudos though for the interesting heatsink products you brought up, some of which I've never seen, like the Asetek and the Akasa. Along the lines of sound dampening, I agree with Soymilk in believing that it will only add to system temps. I ask anyone who owns the Qpack, does the case really rattle that much that it's a bother? I think you did an excellent job a describing your views of the short comings of this case and prescribing some inventive solutions. I'm sure that there are a few more that haven't been touched on. Great suggestions though and I hope you like mine in return as I did read the long version, tossing ideas around is always fun.

 

[Soymilk]

yeah i was the one who emailed aspire asking about it, heres the exact response i got:

Chris:

We will have another new front panel for the same case body in the future. But it may be another 6-8 months later.


Thanks,
Elise

i forgot to check when i emailed it, and im too lazy to go log back in, but it was around a month ago i think.

 

[diasper]

Thanks for all the replies - I am genuinely surprised at the number of replies! I posted something similiar in the forum where I normally hang around *cough* anandtech *cough* but responses were lackadaisical at best. Originally, I heard there were a few Qpackers here and got reading around here and thought I might post here - I'm glad I did

Just to be more clear on the OP - I know it isn't nearly as clear and articulate as it could be but behind everything there is a reasoning. Of course, if I had tried for something more proper I could easily have spent all day writing it and topped 5000 words, which I'm not sure how many of us would want

I'll try and answer your questions as best I can now:



Solar - No, I don't actually own one. Really, this all started when my brother challenged me to build a budget and quiet office PC for my father to replace his decrepit machine (P2 266mhz!). I also wanted to go for small if I could. Anyway, short of story is after a fair bit of searching I came across the Qpack which is near perfect for that role - when the day comes to buy the machine I'll be buying a Qpack. However, having looked up and researched the case myself I realised I actually really rather liked it for myself but for what I wanted I felt it came short in several areas. Therefore, the original post is the idea I had in my mind of how I thought the design could be changed and improved to accommodate what I would love to see. I guess as such the designs changes are to a large degree personally reflective - they reflect how I want a case that can provide better airflow at lower noise (including shielding hardrive noise as much as possible) while giving the end user the greatest flexibility as far as SFF allows.

In short, I only spent so much time thinking up design changes and committing it to text because I do honestly like the case and think it has so much more potential.



Dillusion - black Plexiglas case - I bet that'll look nice. Please post some pics when you're done



Ubermouser - I'm glad you liked my ideas. I'm not sure how much stuff can be implemented successfully in the Qpack as it current stands as its a bit of a complete design overhaul (eg how airflow works). The front bezel is all part of this as it would need to be redesigned such that the bezel is deepened so that there are adequate side intakes - I'm pretty sure that some extra space will need to be added to make it work - perhaps 5mm which will in turn make the case longer but in my books that’s a small sacrifice. Ignoring overclocking and what enthusiasts might want, as stands in the current Qpack, the only noise that can not be cut out is the stuff coming from the hardrives - in fact the current design of the Qpack affords it a direct line out to the user. With cases like the Antec P180, I've always been surprised at just how much having side vents cuts out noise from internals coming out - including hardrives.

Still, I'm sure some stuff can be done and I'd be interested to know what you're thinking of implementing in the Qpack.



kumquat - To your first point I agree holes should not be placed randomly and that is the same for the design changes I have. This is where I disagree with the current Qpack design - with their current design I think they placed the vents as best they could while retaining their overriding drive on making the cheapest (decent) case possible. I applaud them on this and this is why the Qpack is a great value case - for a value case I think it's great. Really, this comes down to priorities. As I see it the for the design time who were charged with designing the Qpack it was Cost > Airflow/quality whereas what the design I've suggested is more Airflow/quality > Cost. While, I would like to add that the changes I think won't add too much cost essentially, the design I've suggested would be targeting a different markets - enthusiasts, home media PCs and more demanding office/general users who would want a higher quality case with lower noise.

On the filters - the filters would be washable and therefore removable as the user would see fit. If you wanted to remove it you could and run it as you want. To be fair, I've run my Antec 3700 both with and without the fans for a long while before getting lazy and deciding on having the filter so I don't have the deal with the dust bunnies as often.

The current Qpack is designed as a value case absolutely - that's why I have said it should stop being sold. It has its market segment and this case would in turn have slightly different ones - targeting new markets and extending the appeal into markets already targeted by the Qpack. In this way, the design I've suggested is not without its business context. However, I would like to say that the design changes you've picked on probably won't add as much cost as you might think. Ultimately, I could only find out for sure if I talked to one of Aspire's engineers but my suggestions where meant as a best guess design suggestion while staying within economic design rationale. Also, as for overall cost and if this is going to be targeted at enthusiasts (or at least one variant), costs could be saved in some areas such as the PSU that could make the design I'm suggesting arguably cheaper than the Qpack as it stands.

A fan controller for the back fan would only be a variable rheostat, a cable and some knobs/buttons to use it and so is not all that expensive. Of course, Because I couldn't give it a cost value I did suggest alternatively just using a rear fan with variable speed settings as a more easily/readily implemented solution. On the materials for sound proofing, they would be to actually serve more than one purpose - sound proofing and strengthening the case. I'm not sure but I guessed that using vinyl (or similar) might actually be cheaper than increasing the width of the aluminium used in the case (an idea I was thinking about) while having the additional benefit of doing more to strengthen the case. As for weight, adding a layer like some thin vinyl really would not add much weight to the case - certainly less than adding something like a hardrive. I know when it comes to it if I need extra space I'll add that hardrive. After all as far as I'm concerned weight isn't too important for me as I carry my cases round much and if I did I wouldn't really care. I guess for those who place weight as a higher priority they'd still be the original Qpack to use so all market segments could be happy.

As for outlining what the limitations of the Qpack are, I did try to start with it. Of course, I know I could have been much more eloquent. Then again, the design changes I suggested weren't so much about limitations as the Qpack as it stands is a great case, but about making a great case even better.



Devii - I agree with you - those were all things that motivated me and in fact was stuff I consistently picked up both from reviews and forums as stuff that could be improved.

As for removing the handle that is a more complex decision than just design as it incorporates marketing.

If you removed it and replaced it with a slit I know it would help cooling but it could increase noise more significantly than the advantages of the extra cooling - It probably wouldn’t though. Also, it could make an aesthetically pleasing / sophisticated looking front bezel more difficult. In short I’m a bit out on that one - if there was a slit I'd suggest it be used with some 'guard' over the top that would deflect sound down and away from the user. (And just to pick on Antec again - as seen here on the front of the 3000B case for an idea).

Alternatively, you could just remove the handle and replace it with a more elegant and stylish bezel (perhaps thinking like Silverstone here) as the side intakes should be more than sufficient for good cooling supposing a decent implementation of it. The only thing that really needs mentioning is that the handle is all part of Aspire’s marketing effort to target the case at the lanparty crowd (hence also the windows and bright colours) – it is the sort of thing that could be easily (and is?) used in advertisements to sell the case given its clear and distinctive message and imagery. Therefore, and repeating from before, Aspire should continue producing the current QPack as it does very well targeting the lanparty and value markets. However, I would argue that if a redesign as I’ve suggested was done to target new markets and extend penetration into existing ones, the handle would not be necessary and could easily be dropped. For enthusiasts, or people looking for home media boxes or a more stylish yet quiet office PC, the handle is an unneeded extra and could actually act as a significant detracting factor. Personally, it is a feature I’m not too enthusiastic about. It does cheapen the case to some degree but fundamentally, if I’m going to carry my case I’ll grab the box direct rather than trusting a handle.



Jelic - Thanks for reading all of it and saying so. I know I should have made it clearer in the original post, but I would not advise Aspire to abandon the value market (and not even discontinue their current Qpack design). Rather, I see how with some re-designed cases they would be able to penetrate further into markets and into more market segments (essentially I mean by making SFF more attractive as the traditional compromises perceived are completely removed eg poorer airflow & cooling, more noise, etc all the while at lower cost)



Soymilk - I really don't think dampening materials like vinyl would be bad for temperatures. The P150 seems to do great with its sound dampening (as does the P180). In fact both those cases seem to be the best in their class (and price). To quote the SilentPCReview review on the case:

The board temp in the BQE and the Sonata II were the same, while in the P150 it was 7°C cooler. The CPU temp in the BQE and the Sonata II were very nearly the same, while in the P150, it ran 6-7°C cooler.

Since the PSU fan CFM was nearly the same for all three different samples, the board and CPU temps are most probably affected by the impedance in the airflow path through the case. Judging by these results, the P150 has better airflow than either of the other cases.

For a link to the review click here

I think if a case has to rely on its external case for cooling something is simply going wrong. Heat is removed from the case most successfully with clear, direct airflow, which is what I've tried to aim for. In fact, given how much the P150 was able to reduce temperatures really shows how important airflow is and how much can be achieved with a re-design. I think the Aspire is capable of this also - just as Antec made their (already great and widely acclaimed) cases much better so can Aspire. Also, just to answer your point on the enthusiast market being niche - it hasn't been so niche that Antec has sold boatloads of P150s and P180s at a higher cost than even the most enthusiast targeted redesign of the Qpack would sell for. Also, as I see it the future trend of PCs is a preference to what is smaller, more aesthetically pleasing without sacrificing any functionality. The Aspire could quite happily fill this growing market. (We just need better mATX boards to come out in volume ie have the stability, overclocking, features etc of their ATX cousins. We're getting there especially with the 6150 but once quality boards with the features of ATX become mainstream is the moment SFF really takes off and the potential market for Aspire is great)



Solar - Damn, that's long response too!

You see I think a useful amount of intake can be combined with an aesthetically pleasing bezel. I think in this the SFF can take some lessons from its larger and most successful ATX brethren eg the P150 and P180. Of course, to do this it will need a significant redesign of the front bezel including probably lengthening it and in turn adding a small amount (and hopefully insignificant) of length to the case. As for a general aesthetic redesign of the front bezel, I wholeheartedly agree with you - this is an area I thought the Aspire could do better in but it wasn't an area I was looking to touch on in my original post as it can be a bit of an ambiguous thing to say and might only distract discussion from the design points. As for a bezel taking after the Silverstone cases, I'd be all for that! Aesthetically, they are actually the cases I like the best. In short though, I'm glad they are re-designing the front bezel and I look forward to any developments.

I absolutely agree with you - Aspire have done a great job with space management in this case and that's only the reason why I've spent my time writing up what improvements I think can be made - because I think it might be worth it. As for the hardrives, them being vertically mounted is a feature I really like in the Qpack. As well as being the most space conservative it also does the most for heat dissipation as heat 'rolls off' the sides and away from the hardrives. Personally, my hardrives overheating and reducing their reliability is something that does concern me - that hardrives are getting only faster only makes this more pertinent - anyone want to try a Raptor in the Qpack? Now as for vertically mounting the drives via suspension, it is perhaps something I am getting less sure of. I think if it could be done it'd be great. However, I can see plenty of other minimalist ways of mounting the hardrives that would serve the same purpose of allowing better cooling around the hardrives and reducing noise/vibrations - I'm still thinking about them now and have not yet come up with best and most economical solution.

On that note, I think your idea of a teardrop/sling would is very interesting and I think workable - you can easily stop the hardrives swinging from side to side with just include another rubber band (that you tie to the bottom of the teardrop loop where the hardrive nestles in to a hook or bar etc) at the bottom of the case. In fact such a solution might even be more economical than the current one of using a metal fixture/shroud. However, I guess these sort of discussions or viability against cost could only be resolved with a discussion with an engineer but all things said I really like your idea. That said, in the meanwhile and at the *very* least in their current Qpack design they should include rubber grommets which add much at all in the way of cost.

On the side bars running along the CPU end, I think there are a lot of solutions that can be implemented. I think Aspire took the easy decision when designing it - symmetry using straight bars down the middle. I suspect they also took this decisions because while being a value case they wanted it to be able to have windows and appear fun while being able to show off your components - this is obviously an attempt to target the lanparty market segment. Consequently, this is why I say they shouldn't discontinue their current Qpack design. It does a great job targeting the value and lanparty sections. However, I think SFF will be a greatly growing area in future, particularly does that want a more sophisticated aesthetic but without making compromises elsewhere.

Therefore, for the sort of design I'm suggesting the market target will not be the same that will as a whole want windows (for those that do they can go with the current Qpack) and so how the beam looks or its asymmetry will not be important. Nevertheless, on the beam design I suspect Aspire would need to keep to a straight (presumably hollow?) beam design for cost. Nevertheless, there are a number of beam designs possible. The two most immediate that come to mind is either a beam running from the top corner of the front bezel to the back corner just by the fan (the fan would have to be moved slightly at the back for the bar) or alternatively a beam starting approximately in the middle region at the front of the case rising diagonally perhaps up to the same top corner by the fan. I think the beam running along the top corner would be the best solution. I've poorly illustrated what I mean again in red here.. If the case integrity still needs to be strengthened after that I would then say the central metal running from the front to back under the PSU could be strengthened. Likewise the beam on the other side could be strengthened. Both can be seen here. There possibly some additional benefits from having the beam running along the top of the case and that is the case fan will then have to move down which will then move it closer to the motherboard and CPU meaning it should provide slightly better heat extraction from the lower section (where it seem like heat could get unnecessarily trapped) irregardless of what heatsink is being used.

Finally, as for the heatsink idea, it is perhaps a slightly strange suggestion but if cases include power supplies there is absolutely no reason why they couldn't include a heatsink / cooling solution specifically designed for their case. Arguably, including a heatsink makes more sense than a PSU given a case's purpose is to provide cooling - providing a heatsink that is designed for the case that facilitates excellent cooling. Perhaps we can take a bit of Nvidia's marketing here but adapt it - how about a new slogan - "Cooling the Way it is Meant To Be" tm. If that isn't take it very much should be. As a marketing message on its own it works very well (differentiation from your competitors) but also using it you set a psychological link with Nvidia and hopefully their high-end products which can help get recognition, sell products, even get some controversy for some recognition etc etc In fact given the emergence of Intel's new marketing strategy of power/watt this would even fit in well with that.

Fundamentally, for a smaller company like Aspire that could work very well. (/tangent) Nevertheless, in an economic sense given Aspire's size providing a heatsink would actually be easier than a heatsink because heatsinks require less R&D in the short and long-term and are pretty cheap to produce. A good heatsink produced today will still work well with CPUs many years down the line whereas a PSU there's likely to be more change - changing power requirements, new power connectors etc etc. In short outside of the value segment there is an argument to drop the PSU given that people's requirement can all be radically different. Coming back onto the cost side of things again, if you remove the PSU you can make pretty big savings which you can then pass on to the buyer - for an enthusiast design that could pay for all the changes and more.

 

[diasper]

Summing up
I really want to thank you guys for your responses again as I appreciate it. Also, on a more practical side of things discussing stuff gets more ideas flowing and refining other ones. Solar’s idea of a sling is just that. One person is unlikely to come up with the best design possible and as such I know the design I’ve suggested can be improved in numerous ways. If people do have suggestions I’m happy to hear them after all that is what forums are meant to be for.

But as for such a re-design (whatever it exactly is), I’m sure there would be a market for it. The current Aspire very successfully targets the lanparty and value market segments but there are other markets segements it can expand to. Namely the enthusiast, the home media box PC and the more demanding home/office PC demanding lowest noise and a stylish case. As I see it, these are all areas for the SFF that can expect massive growth in the coming years. The current culture is that smaller and stylish is better – Apple Ipod is perhaps an example of that, the rise of the ever-increasing growth of the laptop is perhaps another. As I see it, this could be a real market opportunity for companies like Aspire. Of all the case markets it is the mATX segment that will undoubtedly see the fastest and largest growth in the coming years. Depending how motherboard technology goes we may very well see the stagnation (and even decline) of the ATX size case in the longer term – if mATX motherboards can show similar stability, overclocking and features of its ATX brethren it will become a much more popular format. With boards like 6150 and now ATI beginning to compete more there is the real promise that mATX can really get there.

At this moment in time, it could perhaps be argued that Aspire has the opportunity to become a much more dominant force in the SFF market. It could push to become fill the emerging market segments of the SFF just as Antec has done with the standard ATX market. Perhaps Aspire could become ‘the Antec’ of the SFF market. I guess at this is diverging from design discussions, but if there is a real market opportunity and the people working as Aspire can be convinced then seeing a new more high-end design can become a real possibility.

/end and thank you (and sorry!) for your time

 

[diasper]

I think I got everyone's questions - if not just say and I will

 

[diasper]

Just wondering, do you reckon I should forward this thread to Aspire?

 

[M4rk]

'Ya know what I reckon? Not quadruple posting.

Thanks to some random guy in the Case Modding forum, I now have my hands on SketchUp. I plan on using it to recreate the 'Pack and plan my mod for it. Wish me luck! If all else fails, I'm just gonna' buy a bunch of cheap plexiglass and make my own SFF case.

Diasper, download SketchUp and put your thoughts on digital paper. Aspire might be impressed!

 

[spadefoot]

I certainly can't claim to speak for Aspire ( or Chenming or ???) as to the intended market for the Qpack, but I don't think it's really a "value"-targeted case.

However, it certainly has found it's home in the enthusiast market. If you consider that the case runs about $80-90, and then a decent power supply (assuming you are going to replace the one that come with it) is $50-100, you are looking at spending $130-190 on a case.

Honestly, even if you don't replace the power supply, I'd be hard pressed to consider a case near the $100 mark to be a "value" case.

How many "value" consumers are going to build SFF pc with a LAN-party-convenient handle? How many care about the temperature of the CPU and hard drives?

 

[diasper]

M4rk - I tried going back and deleting the two shorts posts (#14 & 15)and add them to the previous post but I can't find where to click to do it - it only allows me to edit. Apologies for the extra posts but nothing was meant by it. The first two posts I had to separate because I went over the character limit (20,000) for one single post.

spadefoot Perhaps I should comment that I was using the term value in its comparative sense. It's a value case according to what it's competing with - ie other SFF cases and among them it is one of cheaper ones - or more importantly cheap while offering decent quality and therefore becomes value.

I had a brief look at other cases (newegg prices) and here's what they are give or take:
Silverstone (without PSU) - $100
Lian LI PC-V1000 (without PSU) - $200
Shuttle/Biostar ...different market really but it is more expensive especially when considering proprietary parts.
Antec Aria (with 300W PSU) - $95
Aspire Qpack (with 420W PSU) - $80

Therefore anyone looking to build a cheap mATX box will probably regard the Qpack in the value section of the SFF market. Sure it isn't quite as cheap as cases like the Antec 1650 at $65 but $15 isn't so far off really.

As being a value case for an enthusiast, I never said it was - surely such a term would be an oxymoron anyway? If you were an enthusiast buying this case and looking to replace the PSU surely you'd probably appreciate the Qpack more if it was selling for cheaper eg just say $65?

Ultimately, I can't say what market segments Aspire was really aiming for but I'd say right now the Qpack as it stands is falling within the 'value' segment of the SFF market.

 

[spadefoot]

If you check somewhere like directron, there are 30-40 mATX cases (admittedly many are small towers, but some more "sff" ones as well) in the sub-$50 range, some with PS some without. The cases you list are all "Enthusiast"-grade cases, to me at least. That does make the Qpack agood deal for the enthusiast market, I supose.

I guess my interpretation of value has been warped to make value=cheap as opposed to value=good quality for a good price.

 

[Solar]

It's funny but I forgot about Dillusions point, if we want any changes made to this box Chieftec might be the company we might want to talk to, if this design talk ever gets off the ground.

Diasper, I like your ideas to rework the case structure, the use of top corner case bars is a good idea. I agree, it does require some reworking of the internal components though.

I don't know if this really is targeted at the value segment because there are some cheaper mATX cases out there, just not in the same toaster box format, check out Directron or Tiger Direct. What I can say is that Aspire took Chieftec's design and turned it into a lan party idea, I don't think any HTPC has a glowing powersupply and fan come standard. We could also look at the Qpack as being the cheapest within the midrange segment, which is where I think it falls. There are more expensive SFF barebones kits that round out the high range and like I stated before there are $40 cases that bring up the low end. In terms of functionality though the case can't be beat and at it's price rance it's killer.

Looking at the marketing strategies of other companies though, what Aspire/Chieftec would have to do to give the case broader appeal is give the case more appeal. Make it look snazzy, give it some sparkle, other than a handle. One thing I've learned is that 95% of marketing is about appearances, the other 5% is making sure that the product is good enough to please the customer. Look at Microsoft with Windows XP, Apple with the iPod and partially with its computers too, Dell with its computers and Intel with its processors, there are more examples but I hope you get the picture. What the product has to do is be good enough for the consumer to live with and look good/meet expectations while doing so. Create a big enough hype about anything, people will buy it (Singing Big Mouth Bass, the AB Shocker and Furby, case in point). What seperates a lot of us who are on this forum is that we look beyond the marketing and look at the functionality of a device, which is why a lot of us put up with Windows even with some of its short commings (I think it's a fine OS, but the GUI is ugly, so there's always Desktop X ), have an iPod even though there are better players out there (I don't own one and don't intend to either) and build our own PC's becasue we can A) get a better price than what's offered by either Dell or Apple and B) get better performance and have the greater ability for customization (e.g. Intel or AMD) at that lower price. But then again, how do you sell something so basic as a computer case?

edit: my mistake, Chenming is the case OEM and sorry spadefoot I didn't see your post until after finished writing my post I started it at about 10 but started watching Stepford Wives...(laptops and DirecTV, dangerous combination)

 

[Soymilk]

to the part about something being wrong if the case needs to help dissipate heat: no, nothing's wrong. it's a sff. the p150 is fine because it is larger than the qpack, which enables it to have 1) better airflow, and 2) lower ambient temps, because it's spread out over a higher volume. the qpack on the other hand is small, so it relies on the shell to help dissipate heat to keep down the ambient temps. shuttles do the exact same thing, and sff is what they do best, so its a correct/proven method.

 

[diasper]

Soymilk, I think (as far as I'm aware) the Antec Aria uses a layered and dapened case shell so I wouldn't say its as necessary - IMO it might help but it's effects would be very limited especially so in a well designed case with hot air being directly exhausted out not adding to ambient.

I mean taking well-designed airflow - if its nigh a wind tunnel the airflow in a SFF could match (or even better?) that of a larger ATX case simply because it is direct intaking cold outside air directly to the CPU (other hot parts) and directly exhausting them so there is very limited heat staying around in the case to cause a raised ambient temperature (and make any use of a thin aluminium shell to disipate heat). In some senses a SFF case could benefit more from a real wind tunnel effect simply because its smaller size means fans can have a more direct/stronger effect on a great proportion of the case. Arguable.

Anyway, I've emailed suggestions@aspireusa.net and gave them a link to this thread.

 

[Soymilk]

the antec aria is a very bad example for you to use, it has overheating problems all over the place.

 

[vanilla_guerilla]

yous about a poster, man.
anyway theres a thread here somewhere, use a low rpm 120mm in the back for intake, put a vent or fan in each side panel near the front for cross vent. i use a tt venus 12 with a 80x15mm fan to clear the cross member above the cpu. works pretty good. i was using the 120mm for intake in the summer, i turned it back around few months ago. doesnt get very hot in there. ive had hotter tower cases(original lanboy)

 

[curtisfong]

With a minimal amount of work. Also, reversing the rear 120 will lower system and cpu temps by a lot.

If you are willing to cut the support brace just about any heatsink will fit.

 

[mrweasel]

why not just buy a Shuttle if you want good cooling and a relatively quiet machine.

Mind you, you can't put your own motherboard in there, but they do have some very nice machines...and how much stress is Dad really gonna put on it if he has a 266 now?

 

[curtisfong]

Because for $80 for this case, and another $80 for a 6150 board is significantly less money than what Shuttle would charge. Depending on the board you choose you can get dvi+vga out, HD sound, component video out, and spdif out.

The 120mm fan is also a much better solution than the relatively tiny fans that Shuttle uses. And don't forget the 40mm fan that most Shuttles use in their power supplies.

 

[diasper]

The Aria is bad at cooling because it has next to no airflow not because of the noise dapening materials as far as I'm concerned. As before, implement proper airflow and noise dapening materials will be negligible. I wasn't bringing up the Aria as an example of good cooling but as an example of how it could be implemented.

Just to mention I remember reading studies that disproved the notion that aluminium cases worked as giant heatsinks/helped temperatures in any significant way a while back.

Reversing the intake is a nice workable solution which does help lower the temperatures somewhat - I think 3C on the CPU and upto 10C on the hardrive. In a way that that can do it shows that airflow in the Qpack is far from what it could be and so we come back to the central point of how airflow can be imrpoved.

More importantly on reversing the airflow is that it is not as workable for the average person.
- It increases dust intake into the case. Most people are bad enough at removing dust from the case let alone into a SFF which'll make the dust/cm^3 worse + those who might be it might be more asthetically than recognising potential limitations of the case. This could be partly solved by mounting/modding some filter onto the back but for the vast majority of people this is not a real solution.
- Some people might end up putting their SFF case against a wall or otherwise in a restricted space. In such a situation it could well end up that the hot air being exhausted by the PSU is being intaken directly again. This is the fundamental reason why cases don't exhaust from the back - one can guarantee more air from the front of the case where the bezel/drives to be accessed than at the back of the case.

As a result having the rear fan as an intake is only a solution for a minority of users - the small number that are willing to mod their case, take greater care in case maintenance and have their case sitting in the open in an utterly unrestricted environment - in short it's not a flexible or easy solution that can be targetted at as large a number of people as possible which is what any case aims for.

As for not buying a shuttle there are plenty of reasons why that's not a desirable solution - reasons that are well known.

mrweasel: As for the discussion, this about improving the case in a number of ways but primarily cooling/noise and thus targetting it even more at the enthusiast market where it already has found some home. For those looking at good, excellent value SFF box for office apps it is already clear that the Qpack is already more than sufficient bar perhaps a more simple/sophisticated lookign bezel.

 

[diasper]

Looking again at the rear fan, placing the fan lower down and thus closer to the motherboard and CPU looks like a design change that could provide yet improved cooling.

It'll be closer to the heat producing parts and so would be able to exhaust the hot air much more efficiently. Even in traditional blow-down type heatsinks its proximity would help more immediately exhaust the hot air and reduce ambients. Also, it should provide additional cooling the the mosfets and also possible the northbridge (depending on placement) and the top side of the graphics card. Although in all a more central placement but still near enough the top it should more effectively create a wind tunnel effect as it draws from both the top and the lower part of the case equally..

As a design change it would also fit perfectly with placing the support bar at the top and thus creating more space around the CPU socket area for airflow/a large heatsink.

(edit) I think if the design changes end up allowing the use of a good number of excellent heatsinks (eg Zalman 9500), including a heatsink I guess is pointless especially if all the measures significantly improve airflow & cooling over the current design which is working satisfactorily.

 

[kumquat]

Hot air rises.

 

[diasper]

Hot air rises.

Yes it does.

Perhaps you can accuse me of overestimating, but fans don't only pull the air just in-line with the fan but in fact to some angle - certainly, if you place your hand next to a fan you'll feel the air moving beyond what's only in-line as at the very least surrounding air is pulled into the negative air pressure where air is drawn from.

Of course fans are different and some will do this to a greater extent than others depending on their fan design. However, it means you can lower the position of the case fan and still draw air from the top (and encourage airflow around the hardrives).

Perhaps I should have been clearer, but there are benefits from lowering the position of case fan by some amount - how much is only dictated by (calculating) how much it can be lowered while still pulling air from the top. Unfortunately, fan design isn't an area where I have much knowledge so I can't give any real figures - that'll be left to engineers. But, I could easily imagine the position it being lowered by 2cm (range say 1.5 - 2.5cm) and still being highly effective.

The only real factors to bear in mind and limits where it can be placed is:
a) there is no heatspot above the CPU area ie where a heatsink might draw air from.
b) there is still good airflow around the hardrives

 

[kumquat]

I'm not saying that you're wrong or anything. I like being the devil's advocate.

Beyond the fact that there's no better place to be mounting that 120mm fan no matter how you lay the thing out, and beyond the fact that the case is so short to begin with that it doesn't matter, what you intuitively think about the airflow inside the case is probably not all that accurate. I bet that if we did some smoke traces of how air flows inside the case, and if we could couple that with cubic inch by cubic inch temperature readings, you'd find that moving the fan down one inch accomplishes nothing at all and may impede air flow to some degree. We have to be careful about looking at something designed by professional engineers that has quite possibly gone through several revisions with actual measurements and data, and saying "oh no, that should go there because it'll give us better performance" or "we need more air holes over here" when we have no actual evidence for it.

 

[diasper]

Sure - to really tell what effects and how significant design changes are you would need smoke traces / infrared thermal image to tell fully. Unfortunately, not many people have that sort of equipment lieing around so I guess we are left with educated guesses

I agree with you that moving the rear case fan will never have a large impact compared to other design changes that remove obstructions. As such, it is a minor point in any discussion of design changes.

However, I think trying to optimise any wind tunnel effect is still no doubt an area worth investing energy in. Given the lengths case designs like the Silverstone TJ-06 go to with a duct from front to back to create a proper wind tunnel effect, I can only end up assuming it is an important thing to strive for and achieve as best as possible.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[Ubermouser]

Change the front bezel for direct airflow
Use filters (although not too fine as to restricted airflow)
Suspend the hardrives / otherwise minimise the restrictive metal and include rubber grommets.
Include right angle molex's or other solution for full length opticals / standard ATX power supplies.
Get rid of the PSU
Remove the metal bar running along the CPU side of the case
Add a 92mm special side blowing heatsink ala Akasa.
Use rubber grommets to mount the rear 120mm fan

**edit - I should probably mention the 120mm fans always blew IN with my tests, never out.** D'oh.

I've done as I have told you I would.. the test subject was an ancient motherboard I "borrowed" from <a retail outlet that doesnt track their RMAs before 15 days>, along with an ancient Pentium 2.4C (cooled with sp-94), and an ancient Geforce MX4000-t64, cooled passively. Memory I have no idea (256mb of something) - I pulled it out of my friend's Sony for the occasion. I simulated a load to the computer by running Prime95 and 3dmark2001 (something older than the current)

The bezel was changed for direct airflow in the process of drilling out the bezel to fit a dual 80mm radiator. I found that this increased temperatures to the cpu and graphicss card and memory while GREATLY reducing temperatures to the already frigid hard drives.

Get Rid of the PSU : This actually Increased temperatures to the CPU and GPU slightly, since instead of an outward blowing fan where the psu was, there is nothing.

Remove support bar: No, not again. The case is already extremely fragile. It damn near fell apart when I did this.

Add a 92 *(80)*mm side fan blowing towards the heatsink: I implimeted this by replacing the window of the case with a piece of cardboard for the time being and shoving a fan ducted to a SP-94 into the space. This, of course, did reduce temperatures, however the pressure in the case was now positive and no longer negative, and raised overall system temperatures very slightly.

Rubber Grommits to mount fans: absolutely. Vibration -> no Vibration.

Other Things I tried:
Move the 120mm back fan so it blows into the processor instead of onto the hard drives
This increased temperatures of the hard drives oh so slightly (they werent getting a buttload of air anymore; they were getting the lion's share with a Silverstone 110cfm fan).
This further reduced temperatures, even when the CPU was ducted. This was done in the process of ducting the original 120mm fan so hot air from the radiator wouldnt enter the case.

2 80mm exhaust fans on pci bus side of case: Slightly reduced temperatures of the graphics card. This was done in the process of venting the airflow from the dual 80mm radiator to the outside, without heating up the case. 80mm fans were mounted with another piece of cardboard.

Removing the backing on the I/O plate: This was done so that the radiator would fit atleast slightly closer to the case. It wasnt very intelligent - it increased temperatures by a small margin (1C) because cold air from the 120mm fan would simply flow straight out.

 

[diasper]

Wow! Post pics of what you've done whenever you can.

I think the rear fan will need to be reversed to blow out to bring CPU, NB etc temps downdemd I'm guessing the air is just blowing as a jet over the top of the CPU etc (path of least resistance) and therefore not affecting tempertures as it should. Switching it the other way, pressure will go negative and so should draw air from more areas of the case as the air struggles to fill the negative pressure. (You'll also gonna need to put in a PSU for it to work) Only thing is the hardrive temps will go up somewhat although that shouldn't be a problem.

What temps are you reporting atm?

Quick question - what/how are you using the dual 80mm radiator?

If you have a soldering iron and a bar could you add a bar to run along the top corner of the case?

Also, quick question - if you've managed to remove the bars, do you have a Zalman 9500 to see if it would fit?

You're the man. Seriously.

 

[diasper]

Any update?