Improving computer audio sound

[sr1230nx]

Greetings!

About 4 years ago I became interested in building a home PC which would offer better video performance than our box store computer using Photoshop elements and some games. With the very kind help and patience of some Hard Forum members I built my first computer.

Here’s that build which we’re still using today and remain very happy with:

Case: Ultra MicroFly (SFF), upgraded 120mm fan to Antec 3 Speed LED TRICOOL and added
4 in. Dual Blue Cold Cathode Kit from xoxide.com
Motherboard: ASUS P5E-VM – HDMI
Processor: E7200 Intel Core Duo
Power Supply: Corsair HX520W (Modular)
Video Card: Visiontek Radeon HD 4850
RAM: G.Skill 4GB (2x2GB) DDR2 800 Dual Channel Kit
Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar 640GB HD OEM
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-S223 Optical Drive OEM
Multicard Reader: Logisys 52-in-1 Internal Card Reader (USB 2.0)
Operating System: Windows Vista Home Premium 64 bit OEM
Monitor: Samsung 216BW
Mouse: Logitec MX620
Keyboard: Logitec illuminated keyboard

Our current audio system includes two parts:

1) Living room: NAD T747 AVR, Panasonic 50” Plasma TV, Polk Lsi7 fronts w/LsiC center, 8” Sub, Panasonic Blu-Ray and an older NEC CD player w/dual D/A Converter & 4x oversampling.

2) Bedroom: our home built computer w/onboard audio directly connected to the RCA aux. inputs of a ’71 vintage Pioneer tuner/amp which drives two Polk Rti4 wall mounted speakers beside a work station. Also connected to the onboard audio is the Aperion Audio Zona Home Link system which is used to stream music from the computer @ 16-bit depth and 48 KHz sampling rate to the NAD AVR in the living room, approx. 15-20’ away.

We use dBpoweramp CD Ripper to convert our CD’s to FLAC which we play on the computer using foobar2000. All files are backed up on a WD My Passport 1T.

Both systems are pleasing as is with the LR sound system being superior to that in the BR, however I’m always interested in cost effective ways to improve the sound of either system.

My computer audio question is this:

Incrementally and affordably, what next step or couple steps could we take which would noticeably improve the sound of either system using our computer as the music source? Wondering about an inexpensive Asus Xonar sound card or Music Streamer II? Or am I shooting at a target that isn’t there, i.e., are we just as well off sticking with our existing onboard Realtek ALC 883 8 Channel High-Definition Audio CODEC?

 

[atarione]

i think a better sound card is probably your next step.

If it is mainly for music something external probably ...inside the pc case is pretty widely accepted to be a pretty hostile environment for high fidelity audio (much rf and whatnot.)


I went from onboard audio to Xonar DG and saw improvements then for my birthday I got a DAW (Focusrite Scarlett 2i2) which is an external audio recording / monitoring device ..but works nicely as a dac also. The sound quality of the 2i2 is better than that from the Xonar. I got it so i could do recording mainly i wouldn't entirely recommend it for someone just wanting a DAC cause the drivers are a bit wonky with sleepmode (pretty much all DAW stuff hates sleepmode apparently) and the scarlett has TS outputs (balanced) which basically results in a rather unfortunate noise floor issue when running TS to RCA to my vintage Pioneer SA-710 amp.

speaking of which I also have th RTi4 speakers and my experience was they are sort of bright to start with and some vintage pioneer stuff is also sort of bright.... originally i was using my RTi4s w/ a SX-780 and they sounded like tinny butt .... right before giving up and returning them i hooked them up to my SA-710 and they sounded pretty nice.... so i'm not saying it is the issue but there can be in my experience pairing issues with the RTi4s and vintage pioneer stuff. I'm not using my RTi4s right now but even w/ the SA-710 to get is sounding best as i could I needed to adjust the trebble to about -2 to tone down teh brightness.

Currently I'm using some JBL L1 speakers i got for $40 instead...which are pretty epic w/ my SA-710 ...oh yeah I also have a Vintage Sansui 350a (only 25~wpc) but the RTi4s sound pretty nice w/ teh sansui which is a warmer receiver than the pioneer stuff.


since you didn't say (that i see) which pioneer you have you might want to list the model number and or search over at audiokarma or something to see if it is known to be sort of bright.


I have heard really good stuff about the HRT Music Streamer and or the Maverick Tubemagic D1 or D2 ... i think either of those would probably be a nice improvement over the ob sound.

I think come xmas time i'm going to ask for a maverick D1 or 2 for a present??

 

[sr1230nx]

Thanks for your feedback. Our audio budget is limited and I’m leaning toward the HRT Music Streamer at the moment (thanks for the reminder that Christmas is coming). I have read good things about the Xonar DG as well, particularly with headphones, however all options remain open. I had not heard of the Maverick Tubemagic before so thanks for the heads-up. I’ll try do get some Google time in later in the weekend.

Yes, it would be mainly for music. Your Pioneer stuff is more exotic than mine – a humble SX-1500TD, but it has plenty of umph, good bass and it’s so pretty to look at at night, but I blew a channel out a few years back and the local repair guy I brought it to may have screwed some other things up which leads me to ask if you know anyone who is in the business of restoring these as I simply don’t have the expertise. I had two of them at one point but got rid of one in a move.

I don’t know how you used your RTi4’s but mine are hanging on the wall and while they are a tad bright they exhibit unusually strong bass for a speaker that size. We don’t have many places to listen to decent speakers here and I got these new on closeout from Polk Audio Direct based on reviews – I think they were in the $150-200 range. Wonder what the RTiA3’s would sound like in this same environment.

 

[HammerSandwich]

I wasn't familiar with the Zona, but it appears to work with either analog or USB. Trying the USB connection should give some idea of how good the onboard sound is.

 

[atarione]

Thanks for your feedback. Our audio budget is limited and I’m leaning toward the HRT Music Streamer at the moment (thanks for the reminder that Christmas is coming). I have read good things about the Xonar DG as well, particularly with headphones, however all options remain open. I had not heard of the Maverick Tubemagic before so thanks for the heads-up. I’ll try do get some Google time in later in the weekend.

Yes, it would be mainly for music. Your Pioneer stuff is more exotic than mine – a humble SX-1500TD, but it has plenty of umph, good bass and it’s so pretty to look at at night, but I blew a channel out a few years back and the local repair guy I brought it to may have screwed some other things up which leads me to ask if you know anyone who is in the business of restoring these as I simply don’t have the expertise. I had two of them at one point but got rid of one in a move.

I don’t know how you used your RTi4’s but mine are hanging on the wall and while they are a tad bright they exhibit unusually strong bass for a speaker that size. We don’t have many places to listen to decent speakers here and I got these new on closeout from Polk Audio Direct based on reviews – I think they were in the $150-200 range. Wonder what the RTiA3’s would sound like in this same environment.

the only place i know personally is near my house in San Diego (Classic Audio Repair)....however I know where you could probably find recommendations for someone near you... over @ audiokarma they can probably steer you to someone in your region at least that is good... that is one of the problems with vintage not a lot of people who work on this stuff now.

i had my rti4s on a shelf about 10" away from the wall... they are nice speakers they just need (in my experience) to be paired with a suitable amp carefully ... i am keeping my RTi4s (i actually have them in my HT set up now (surrounds) I just really like these JBL L1 speakers i found for $40 for my computer audio set up more.


I honestly haven't heard the receiver you have ...but I read a bit about sounds like a pretty decent one... however these things are old yours is 40+ years it sounds like maybe.. so the sound can be off factory specs for a ton of reasons (aging caps, adjustments .. ..etc). it might must be the onboard sound also... personally i felt like when moving from logitech multimedia speakers to proper stereo gear / speakers the limitations of the onboard audio was readily apparent.

regardless of what else you probably want a better sound card ..so maybe i'd get that HRT Streamer II thing and see where that leaves you.... if you still think it (sound) is lacking you can start looking about for deals on different amp/ receiver or speakers ...or see about getting your current receiver serviced? i suppose if you want to use it for the long haul it might be a good idea to get it serviced anyways.

 

[sr1230nx]

Well, that’s one of the things that goes along with being an old guy (me) with old stuff = emotional attachment as much as anything else. It’s already a long haul and a little longer won’t hurt. I appreciate your recommendation to check @ audiokarma and if I come up short there maybe I’ll email Classic Audio Repair in San Diego on your recommendation. Working on old equipment is one thing, doing a great job on it can be quite another as I have learned. I’d love to get this unit back to factory specs.

My RTi4s are in our bedroom where hanging them on the wall is the best solution for us space wise. We like them and in retrospect I should have ordered a second pair at the price we paid. Can’t find the stupid receipts but I recall that the price was very ok. I have never seen or heard the JBL L1 but upon Googling them found them quite handsome & if the sounds matches, sweet. I will look for a pair if we ever need shelf speakers for another room. Appreciate that recommendation as well.

I have found that any speakers I have attach to the NAD T747 AVR sound really nice, including the RTi4’s and my ancient Pioneer CS88A’s (just re-foamed the tweeters). FYI, despite some weird/frustrating setup attributes, the NAD is a very, very nice unit which I also purchased at a closeout price = half of original retail.


I received another reply on the Aperion Zona Home Link and yes, I have link #1 plugged into the USB port on the back of my computer and link #2 into the USB on the back of my AVR in another room. Had it running within minutes of receiving it - it was soooo simple to set up. I actually first read about it in the letters section of a Maximum PC magazine and after reading about it decided to try it. Wow! We love it. We program a playlist on the computer and listen to it on our LR system. Highly recommended.

 

[HammerSandwich]

I received another reply on the Aperion Zona Home Link and yes, I have link #1 plugged into the USB port on the back of my computer and link #2 into the USB on the back of my AVR in another room.

So it shows up as a 2nd playback device in Control Panel\Sound? If so, then it's not connected to your onboard, and a soundcard shouldn't improve remote audio. Or I don't understand how the Zona works...

 

[sr1230nx]

Sorry Hammer, I was rushed and tried to answer two messages with one reply.

The Zona shows up under the Control Panel\Sounds as “Speakers – 2-USB Audio Device.” Whenever I want to switch from my local Pioneer tuner/amp to my AVR in the living room, I simply switch the default playback device to USB. The Zona itself consists of two hockey puck like units; #1 = send and #2 = receive.

And also thanks, Hammer. You probably helped me answer my own question, at least for sound from the computer via the Zona to my LR setup. I do not have audiophile ears however there are times when I feel that the sound from my CD player directly thru my AVR is ever so slightly better than from the computer to the AVR via the Zona, but the difference if any is so minute as to be inconsequential. So, perhaps that leaves me with the BR setup and since I really love my old Pioneer Tuner/Amp I think I may start there.

 

[Matthew Kane]

Any final nirvana upgrade would be to go fully balanced through an expensive DAC to balanced integrated amp (tube or solid state, matter of preference what you prefer).

Good to see people still using NAD products, there not as popular as they use to be.

 

[sr1230nx]

In my case the ultimate nirvana upgrade would be a new pair of ears. Banning a miracle of some sort I will never own a truly expensive DAC in this lifetime - I’m reaching toward budget nirvana.

I lusted after the NAD T747 after seeing and hearing it in a showroom years ago. Patience finally paid off in the form of closeout pricing at Crutchfield. While I think my modest system sounds pretty good I always have to couch that thought with the question, “Compared to what?” Having very little opportunity to compare components, especially speakers, instead I mine lots of reviews and try to talk to people on forums for a glimpse of gold before I buy. So far, so good.

 

[Matthew Kane]

In my case the ultimate nirvana upgrade would be a new pair of ears. Banning a miracle of some sort I will never own a truly expensive DAC in this lifetime - I’m reaching toward budget nirvana.

I lusted after the NAD T747 after seeing and hearing it in a showroom years ago. Patience finally paid off in the form of closeout pricing at Crutchfield. While I think my modest system sounds pretty good I always have to couch that thought with the question, “Compared to what?” Having very little opportunity to compare components, especially speakers, instead I mine lots of reviews and try to talk to people on forums for a glimpse of gold before I buy. So far, so good.

Get yourself a headphone/portable setup. Like I do see sig. There are times that while some speakers may sound great, the intimacy from a good headphone setup will be hard to beat.

"Comparing to what?"
Go to meets, book in audition sessions with any local audio stores etc, there's a whole variety of options out there to see how your current setup compares to other same price ranged setup's and more expensive flagship ones. In the end what's more important to you, is go with whatever sounds good to your ears.

 

[sr1230nx]

I’m enjoying the Koss PortaPro Headphones at the moment – with a 6 year old in the house I need to hear what’s going on around even while listening to music. Yes, I need do to try to get to a few meets. I live in Houston, TX, and this isn’t exactly a haven for audio stores.

And to Matthew Kane, I don’t know what’s popular or not these days but I’m curious to know your opinion as to why NAD products are not as popular as they used to be. Thanks.

 

[Matthew Kane]

I’m enjoying the Koss PortaPro Headphones at the moment – with a 6 year old in the house I need to hear what’s going on around even while listening to music. Yes, I need do to try to get to a few meets. I live in Houston, TX, and this isn’t exactly a haven for audio stores.

And to Matthew Kane, I don’t know what’s popular or not these days but I’m curious to know your opinion as to why NAD products are not as popular as they used to be. Thanks.

Good old PortaPro's, got two myself, one kramer modded and other one stock, they don't get as much head time as say my Sennheiser HD800's but yeh, them PortaPros are still going strong for over 20 years now.

As with general audio products, I know Sansui, Nakamichi and NAD had really great amp, turntables and SACD players back then, Sansui and Nakamichi has pretty much died off, although NAD is still around, there selection's aren't as popular as say audio offerings from Cambridge Audio and Arcam.

I personally owned the NAD 542EE CD player, was audiophile grade, sounded great especially the timbre from the treble and bass was not heavy but well extended, but the drive belt for the CD transport system and the sensor broke down and cost quite a lot to order it from the UK for parts. I eventually sold it off and got myself an Audio Request Nitro Pro music server.

Nowadays there are new companies offering products just as good as good oldschool vintage gear from the late 70's to early 90's could get and was back then.

 

[sr1230nx]

Haven’t the foggiest as to what a Kramer modded PortaPro is but I’m sure it’s sweet. The only thing I don’t like about them is the short cord – guess that’s what you get at that price point.

Many military folks from the 60’s came home with either Sansui or Pioneer stuff - I chose Pioneer. My Pioneer PL-50 turntable just gave up the ghost a few years ago but I haven’t replaced it yet. When CD’s began replacing cassette tapes I purchased an NEC CD-530 with a nice display that’s large enough to see across the room. For the time being I’m fairly pleased with the modest LR system I have – the only thing I’ve read and been curious about near my price range are Monitor Audio Silver RX-6 speakers. To the best of my knowledge there is one place here where I can audition them but it’s on the other side of town = a day trip to plan.

I have been trying to learn a little more about computer audio and at some point may move my SFF computer into the LR as it is HDMI equipped. I just bought a WD My Passport to store the FLAC files from my converted CD’s and trying to figure out how to play directly from the portable drive instead of my computer HD. As you can tell, this stuff takes me lots of time and effort to understand but it’s fun and in the process I get to listen to some great music. I logged on here to determine what steps I might take to possibly improve computer audio and have picked up a few ideas.

 

[Matthew Kane]

Haven’t the foggiest as to what a Kramer modded PortaPro is but I’m sure it’s sweet. The only thing I don’t like about them is the short cord – guess that’s what you get at that price point.

Many military folks from the 60’s came home with either Sansui or Pioneer stuff - I chose Pioneer. My Pioneer PL-50 turntable just gave up the ghost a few years ago but I haven’t replaced it yet. When CD’s began replacing cassette tapes I purchased an NEC CD-530 with a nice display that’s large enough to see across the room. For the time being I’m fairly pleased with the modest LR system I have – the only thing I’ve read and been curious about near my price range are Monitor Audio Silver RX-6 speakers. To the best of my knowledge there is one place here where I can audition them but it’s on the other side of town = a day trip to plan.

I have been trying to learn a little more about computer audio and at some point may move my SFF computer into the LR as it is HDMI equipped. I just bought a WD My Passport to store the FLAC files from my converted CD’s and trying to figure out how to play directly from the portable drive instead of my computer HD. As you can tell, this stuff takes me lots of time and effort to understand but it’s fun and in the process I get to listen to some great music. I logged on here to determine what steps I might take to possibly improve computer audio and have picked up a few ideas.

Yeh them was the good old days with the vintage Sansui and Pioneer gear, heck even the Sony transport SACD systems were considered absolute audio nirvana by most back then when the transition of audio went from turntables to the evolutionary Compact Disc.

I think most of those that walk the paths of audiophilia have sort of adapted foundation from the roots of our memory when our father use to have some sort of awesome audiophile grade speaker setup, ahh it does bring back some memories, I remember listening to my dad's good old Magnepans connected to what was a Sansui S 3300 integrated amp or something (eventually to a pair of late 1980's Polks), a Pioneer turntable later to a Teac VRD-7 CD transport system, sounded really great, shame I didn't know much about audio at the time as I quite young and he did eventually sell it for about $200 in total, if he still had the exact same items, it would total more then $1k easily nowadays.

You can google the kramer mod, a fellow member by the name of "kramer" on the Head-Fi forum board's invented the mod, by drilling a few holes in between the empty space on the driver cover grills the treble is more tamed and the sound is more opened up, more forward and the bass less prominent to those finding it boomy but sounding tight when it need's strike from the source music.

You should build yourself an music server, doesn't need state of the art part's to make one, as long as you have some sort of single core pc, gig or two of ram, big hard drive, itx based form-factor mobo (if you want it nice and small to fit in with the rest of your gear and furniture) a good sound card with digital out and finally any open source linux based music server O/S that will take any music format and your all done.

Playing with audio stuff is fun, you learn quite a bit and also discover that the more you spend the less in return with sound quality and there is a bit of placebo that goes on as well. Once you travel on this path of audio you will want more, learn more, hear more, see more and it is quite an adventure leaving a bruise to your wallet.

 

[sr1230nx]

Hmmm. You caught my attention on the music server idea – the thought hadn’t occurred to me to build one but maybe I’ll give it some thought and research. Thanks for the idea.

 

[Matthew Kane]

Hmmm. You caught my attention on the music server idea – the thought hadn’t occurred to me to build one but maybe I’ll give it some thought and research. Thanks for the idea.

If you want it to be able to network stream it to end devices for music playback, a wireless lan card or fast Gigabit port are additional add on's. You also can upload and download music to your music server via this method, connecting it remotely.