Improved sound quality

[FrozenOver2]

I have the logitech Z-680's and had some 18 gauge cable laying around and went out and bought an optical connection. I have to say the speakers are clearer and bass is much clearer. Only thing is that when in optical mode it only uses 2 satallites, the middle speaker and the sub how can i get the other 2 satallites working. Is it possible to get them working.

 

[zachary80]

What is your soundcard?

 

[FrozenOver2]

soundstorm

 

[SilverMK3]

The number of speakers you hear largely depends on what you're listening to. Try playing a DVD movie - you should hear sound from all 6 channels.

If you're just listening to music in Winamp, then it is likely that you'll only hear sound from the front 2 speakers and maybe the sub. Try opening your NVMIXER application and setting your speakers to 5.1 (Dolby Digital), Also go to "Surround Settings" and set your surrounds to clone the L/R channels. You can also tell the mixer to create a center channel and adjust the crossover frequency of the LFE channel.

 

[NoxTek]

If you're just listening to music in Winamp, then it is likely that you'll only hear sound from the front 2 speakers and maybe the sub.

If you enable hardware acceleration in the DirectSound plugin in Winamp then it will output on both the front and rear sats quite nicely.

 

[anotherguy159]

Placebo effect.

 

[GodsMadClown]

Placebo effect.

Not if he was using his onboard audio. The DAC stage in the Logitech's are likely better than that on the motherbaord. It's not a mystery.

 

[anotherguy159]

Not if he was using his onboard audio. The DAC stage in the Logitech's are likely better than that on the motherbaord. It's not a mystery.

I was referring to the 18 gauge wire.

 

[Mister X]

I was referring to the 18 gauge wire.

How do you figure that = placebo?

 

[anotherguy159]

How do you figure that = placebo?

Wire replacement isn't going to affect overall sound quality with a few exceptions.

 

[GodsMadClown]

Wire replacement isn't useless. Better interconnects do lead to an increased fidelity. It's just that the wire upgrade happened at the same time as use of the digital connection, bypassing the onboard DAC stage. I feel comfortable assuming that is a bigger part of the increase in quality.

Anyhow. How does this boy matrix out his stereo source to multi-channel? Is there an onboard soundstorm option for that?

 

[Mister X]

Wire replacement isn't going to affect overall sound quality with a few exceptions.

How do you know this is the case here?
Instead of offering us another argumentative and unresponsive reply why don't you just tell us if you have ever tried replacing the wires on the Z680's with some unspecified 18 gauge wire?
If you have then your ASSertion that this placebo may be warranted but if you haven't then.......

 

[Mister X]

How does this boy matrix out his stereo source to multi-channel?

Any number of ways.... one of which is to enable one of the prologic modes on the contol pod.

Is there an onboard soundstorm option for that?

Yup, sure is.

 

[SilverMK3]

Anyhow. How does this boy matrix out his stereo source to multi-channel? Is there an onboard soundstorm option for that?

As I said before, in the NVMixer control panel, set the rear surrounds to clone the front L/R channels (with a delay if you want), and click on the box to enable your LFE effects channel. You probably don't want to use the center channel for music, but there is an option to do so in the NVMixer.

Make sure the speaker configuration is set to "5.1 (Dolby Digital)" and you will have a multichannel DD encoded audio stream going to the Z680's; there's no nead to use Pro Logic on the control pod..

 

[anotherguy159]

How do you know this is the case here?
Instead of offering us another argumentative and unresponsive reply why don't you just tell us if you have ever tried replacing the wires on the Z680's with some unspecified 18 gauge wire?
If you have then your ASSertion that this placebo may be warranted but if you haven't then.......

My lack of evidence in one direction doesn't make the opposite argument true.

But:

The Z680's send approx. 70 watts to the satellite's. 70 watts is not a substantial amount of current by any means. In fact, it's miniscule.

Replacing the speakers wires, on those speakers, will not affect sound quality. Over LARGE runs, perhaps, but in a room...nope.

 

[GodsMadClown]

70 watts isn't any amount of current at all. An amount of current would be measured in amps. 70 watts is an amount of power. Power is, if my hazy memory of physics serves me correctly, the ability to do a descrete amount of work.

If you don't know enough physics to know your units, then how should you expect us to believe your assertions about the effects of some decent speaker wire?

 

[anotherguy159]

70 watts isn't any amount of current at all. An amount of current would be measured in amps. 70 watts is an amount of power. Power is, if my hazy memory of physics serves me correctly, the ability to do a descrete amount of work.

If you don't know enough physics to know your units, then how should you expect us to believe your assertions about the effects of some decent speaker wire?

I know watts do not equal current.

Watts = Volts X Amps

Watts is a good indication of the amount of power travelling through a wire. Did I use the wrong terminology? Yes.

Do my claims remain valid? Yes.

 

[Mister X]

Do my claims remain valid?

No.
You are still telling us what you think and not what you have heard with your own ears.
Seen but never heard is never a valid argument when it comes to something as subjective as audio ... no matter how hard you attempt to rationalize it.


Take my Sennheiser HD650s headphones as an example.
The current amp I am running them from delivers roughly 4 watts.
If I was to apply what you said before to this scenario then my cans would sound the same no matter the cable (because there is not enough power and the cord is not long enough to matter).... Correct?

I beg to differ because the funny part here is the cans sound very different with either the Clou red or the Equinox cable I have regardless of the amp that powers them. Hmm



Besides that decrease the capacitance of a cable and what happens to the frequency response?

 

[FrozenOver2]

U might also want to take into consideration that I bought 18 gauge premium copper cable. The stock cables are like 24 gauge steel cable. Plus the roll I bought seems to be covered a little better possibly reducing outside interference. And i got them to work, all of them for mp3 playing its pretty nice. And its almost light and day the difference in sound quality because of bigger wire and optical cable. My roommate thinks so and so do the people down my wing that come over. Hiss = Gone thats just my ten cents believe me if u want or tell me to stuff it I dont really care I am just stating my opinion. BTW the size of the wire really doesnt have jack shit to do with it, its more about what the wire is made of and how it is shielded. BTW i am no english major lol..

 

[anotherguy159]

I beg to differ because the funny part here is the cans sound very different with either the Clou red or the Equinox cable I have regardless of the amp that powers them. Hmm

That is because headphones are a high impedence device.

Speakers, on the other hand, range from 4-16 ohms. Much less impedence.

And its almost light and day the difference in sound quality because of bigger wire and optical cable.

Once again, it isn't the speaker wires. As stated above, the 680's digital decoder is better than the onboard DAC's. You are hearing that, not the speaker cables.


This is not a personal attack. This is simple Philosophy:
You WANT to hear the difference. What you are experiencing is a condition in which you detect 'change' in something because you expect there to be a change.

OR-

You believe the change, if it exists, was caused by one or more things, while it may have been caused by something else. EX: Optical Cable -> Better Digital Conversion.

 

[Briguyatx]

If that is the case, why is it every single review of the z680's recommend replacing the included wiring with 16-18ga high quality speaker wire, and every single one of them mentioned the sound quality improvement after using the larger gauge wire. In fact, I had a set of 680's breifly before I returned them (didnt need 275.00 speakers after all, the z560's work fine).

I originally installed the 680's with all the included wiring. Hooked it up to a sb audigy via the 6channel connectors. Wasn't impressed. The satellites were slightly muddy, couldnt get the sound to clear up the way I like it.

Changed the satellite wiring to some 16ga I have from my ht system that I upgraded. Noticeable improvement in sound clarity. Both to my ears and the 10-12 other people that come by every week. So please, if your going to make statements based on "fact" please make sure it IS fact. Remember, everybody hears differently, maybe you just cant tell the difference.


:edit: Oh and if your using the digital out and the on-speaker decoder, your only going to get multi-channel sound if the software outputs a matrix signal that the decoder can work with :O , for example, dvd software set to spdif will output a multi-channel sound, winamp will not without plugins (and im still not sure if it will)

Games need the 6 analog connectors for multi-channel gaming for the most part.

 

[GodsMadClown]

Games need the 6 analog connectors for multi-channel gaming for the most part.

Did you miss the part where he said that he was using a soundstorm-equipped MB?

 

[Briguyatx]

No... but he also said he was using the optical connection...

 

[SilverMK3]

No... but he also said he was using the optical connection...

Soundstorm's Dolby Interactive Content Encoder only works through a digital connection, whether its optical or coaxial. His scenario is specifically the only time when having a SoundStorm mobo is relavent.

He can play games with multichannel audio because the DICE will transcode the in-game audio to Dolby Digital 5.1 and send it via his optical out to the Z680's.

 

[anotherguy159]

So please, if your going to make statements based on "fact" please make sure it IS fact.

Just because you, or others, believe something to be truth does not mean that it is.

Your statements hardly constitute fact.

 

[NightRaven]

Just because you, or others, believe something to be truth does not mean that it is.

Your statements hardly constitute fact.

Likewise. Simply because you claim it is placebo does not make it true. You are in no position to argue that the thread starter's perceptions are flawed.

 

[zachary80]

How do you know this is the case here?
Instead of offering us another argumentative and unresponsive reply why don't you just tell us if you have ever tried replacing the wires on the Z680's with some unspecified 18 gauge wire?

These questions remain unaswered, anotherguy159

 

[anotherguy159]

These questions remain unaswered, anotherguy159

No, they don't.

How do you know this is the case here?
Instead of offering us another argumentative and unresponsive reply why don't you just tell us if you have ever tried replacing the wires on the Z680's with some unspecified 18 gauge wire?

Personal experience is not going to win this argument. Whether or not I have done speaker wire swaps is irrerevant.

Likewise. Simply because you claim it is placebo does not make it true. You are in no position to argue that the thread starter's perceptions are flawed.

No, I backed my claims.

The only arguments against my claims are personal experience.

FrozenOver2 is the only person who made a claim, backed it with some fact, but still attributed it to his opinion. That, I accept.

But, like I said, personal experience can be influenced by 'placebo effect.' Personal experience does not make it true.

 

[NightRaven]

This is your first couple of posts:

Wire replacement isn't going to affect overall sound quality with a few exceptions.

My lack of evidence in one direction doesn't make the opposite argument true.

But:

The Z680's send approx. 70 watts to the satellite's. 70 watts is not a substantial amount of current by any means. In fact, it's miniscule.

Replacing the speakers wires, on those speakers, will not affect sound quality. Over LARGE runs, perhaps, but in a room...nope.

I know watts do not equal current.

Watts = Volts X Amps

Watts is a good indication of the amount of power travelling through a wire. Did I use the wrong terminology? Yes.

Do my claims remain valid? Yes.

That is because headphones are a high impedence device.

Speakers, on the other hand, range from 4-16 ohms. Much less impedence.

Where is there a single relevant fact? You state the fact that the wires do not transfer a large amount of current (which may or may not be true depending on the voltage) and then proceed to make a CLAIM that it will therefore not affect the sound quality. You state the fact that speakers have low impedence and then make the CLAIM that whatever effect is minimal.

Simply having facts is not sufficient. The facts have to support the argument, and you have yet to produce any relevant factual data.

 

[Mister X]

you have yet to produce any relevant factual data.

Agreed.

These questions remain unaswered, anotherguy159

As does this one-----> decrease the capacitance of a cable and what happens to the frequency response?

 

[anotherguy159]

As does this one-----> decrease the capacitance of a cable and what happens to the frequency response?

No idea; that is why I did not answer it.