IHS: Should I remove it?

B

Bop

2[H]4U
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Oct 1, 2003
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For the past week or so I've been thinking whether I should remove the IHS on my 4400+. The max OC I can get right now is 2.7ghz w/ 1.6v and to get 2.75 I need like 1.7v, not worth it to me. So I'm wondering if I should pop this thing off(mounting it will be a little tough...)

In my scenario would it be worth it to remove my IHS? At stock speeds my CPU idles around ambient temp, OCed it idles at about 5-8 more degrees than ambient.
 
Sure, take it off, if you're into living dangerously. Be warned tho, you'll have to account for the ~1/8" difference between the heatspreader installed and removed.

And be VERY CAREFUL. Try to cut with the blade perpendicular to the edge, not towards the inside... the lid will be very stuck on and then very detached... it's easy enough to slip the blade towards the core and damage or remove one of the surfacemounted ICs located around the core.

Also, you might want to find something to push the pins into, as it's pretty easy to bend them.
 
honestly, with your cooling solution, i would go for removing the IHS, if you don't move you machine often. it's almost guranteed to improve your load temps and possibly your bleeding edge OC. just be carefull about it, and know the risks.

i haven't removed my IHS because my pelt sandwitch weighs disturbingly close to 1 KG, and so the risk of a crush is just too great, even though my computer is largely stationary.

if you lan even semi-regularly, i wouldn't do it. between the torque from the tubing and the weight of the WB filled with water, i don't think that it would be safe to move the computer without first removing the cooler from the CPU. too much hastle, if you are going to move that beast regularly.

good choice in WB, and the company that makes the best memory one earth is "mushkin" not "mushking" :D
 
I just uncapped my Opteron, It was nerve wrecking but it amazingly the IHS is pretty easy to cut through. You just have to be careful and make sure you cut upwards so it drags along with the IHS, as if you go down you will cut into your cpu.. I did it, but luckly no harm.
 
pffft, hell yeah remove it. its easy, fun, and chicks dig it.


Go slow slow slow and cut the corners first. I use a normal razorblade, kinda a slicing/pushing motion at each corner...just take your time and you'll be fine. I talked my buddy into cutting his off (after he had 1/2 a bottle of gin in him) and he managed it eventually, and he was pretty much brand new to the hobby.

Take a look at a picture of one with the IHS off so you have an idea of just how deep to go.


Mounting the waterblock will be a bit tricky...especially if you have thick tubing. I had to remove the springs from my friends RDX block because I couldnt get the right feel.....putting TIM on the core is also alot tougher....I have my doubts about the "rice dot" method when it comes to a bare core.


Aint that big a deal. Just be a little more carefull than you normally would.
 
Aaron_ATX said:
pffft, hell yeah remove it. its easy, fun, and chicks dig it.


Go slow slow slow and cut the corners first. I use a normal razorblade, kinda a slicing/pushing motion at each corner...just take your time and you'll be fine. I talked my buddy into cutting his off (after he had 1/2 a bottle of gin in him) and he managed it eventually, and he was pretty much brand new to the hobby.

Take a look at a picture of one with the IHS off so you have an idea of just how deep to go.


Mounting the waterblock will be a bit tricky...especially if you have thick tubing. I had to remove the springs from my friends RDX block because I couldnt get the right feel.....putting TIM on the core is also alot tougher....I have my doubts about the "rice dot" method when it comes to a bare core.


Aint that big a deal. Just be a little more carefull than you normally would.
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I'd suggest using about half the size of a grain of rice, but make sure you smoosh it down right.


Also the IHS on the A64 is pretty damn heavy and thick lol
 
No! No rice graining. If you're removing the heatspreader, you gotta spread the thermal interface material evenly over the whole cpu die... otherwise if it hasn't spread out fully when you power it on, it plays the rice crispies song.

Just think back to the early Athlon days... Actually, Arctic Silver has a install instructions page http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions.htm and use steps 3-8

Then drill a hole in the heatspreader and toss it on your keychain...
Keychain.jpg
 
Logan321 said:
No! No rice graining. If you're removing the heatspreader, you gotta spread the thermal interface material evenly over the whole cpu die... otherwise if it hasn't spread out fully when you power it on, it plays the rice crispies song.

Just think back to the early Athlon days... Actually, Arctic Silver has a install instructions page http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions.htm and use steps 3-8

Then drill a hole in the heatspreader and toss it on your keychain...
Keychain.jpg
Click to expand...

The half a grain a rice hasn't failed me yet... but I guess its exp doing it over and over that I know how to do it for the best cooling.
 
Actually I know several people that have and have not removed the IHS. Some that do it get gains and some dont.. Ive seen several of the top Ocers with IHS still on and get FX57 into the 4.0 ghz area with it on. So its a mixed deal when it comes to results. you may get something out of it. you may not. If the CPU has a warrenty It would be over if you do off course. very VEry easy to cruch the CPU with it off. You would have to make lil feet for the top of the chip that space any cooling so it wont crush the core. Seen lots of people try to do it and ruin the CPU before even getting the IHS off all the way. The choice is yous just know the possibillities and the Conequence. I have done some off and some on. Not any real big gains in cooling.. so I leave mine on now.
 
LadyMakoFox said:
The half a grain a rice hasn't failed me yet... but I guess its exp doing it over and over that I know how to do it for the best cooling.
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i've applied paste to plenty of bare dies, and just a touch of paste spread out as thin as you can get it with a clean razor blade works quite well, and is the safest way to apply.
 
Captin Insano said:
Actually I know several people that have and have not removed the IHS. Some that do it get gains and some dont.. Ive seen several of the top Ocers with IHS still on and get FX57 into the 4.0 ghz area with it on. So its a mixed deal when it comes to results. you may get something out of it. you may not. If the CPU has a warrenty It would be over if you do off course. very VEry easy to cruch the CPU with it off. You would have to make lil feet for the top of the chip that space any cooling so it wont crush the core. Seen lots of people try to do it and ruin the CPU before even getting the IHS off all the way. The choice is yous just know the possibillities and the Conequence. I have done some off and some on. Not any real big gains in cooling.. so I leave mine on now.
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i'd be tempted to use a solid metal shim, personally. i ended up permanently cementing a shim onto my old 2600m just to be safe.

you have to have the correct thickness and all, but once it's on there, you should be good to go.
 
i think you just have to be careless to crush a naked core. just be sure to place the heatsink on flat and tighten it down evenly. screw one side 1-2 turns, screw other side 1-2 turns, repeat. i did it twice. did it the first time for test purposes to make sure i was getting good surface contact and make sure the 1/2 bb sized drop of ceramique i put on the core spread out all the way.
i did it this way with my new water block and screwed it down pretty tight. no probs.
 
Haste266 said:
i think you just have to be careless to crush a naked core. just be sure to place the heatsink on flat and tighten it down evenly. screw one side 1-2 turns, screw other side 1-2 turns, repeat. i did it twice. did it the first time for test purposes to make sure i was getting good surface contact and make sure the 1/2 bb sized drop of ceramique i put on the core spread out all the way.
i did it this way with my new water block and screwed it down pretty tight. no probs.
Click to expand...
jolting the case when using a heavy heatsink or water block on a naked core can crush the core pertty quickly. more than one XP has died in that way. these 90nm single cores aren't exactly substantial, even if 130nm single cores or 90nm dualies are okay.
 
DFI Daishi said:
jolting the case when using a heavy heatsink or water block on a naked core can crush the core pertty quickly. more than one XP has died in that way. these 90nm single cores aren't exactly substantial, even if 130nm single cores or 90nm dualies are okay.
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and the paranoia sets in... :rolleyes:
 
Haste266 said:
and the paranoia sets in... :rolleyes:
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there's a difference between knowing the risks of what you are thinking of doing and paranoia.

if i was paranoid, i wouldn't pelt cool and i wouldn't strap such a massive cooling solution to my proc for fear of jolting and crushing. as it is, because i know that the risks of crushing my 90nm with such a heavy cooler i don't go bare myself. if i had a light cooler or a dual core, i might consider it.

given that the OP has a 90nm dual core and a moderate weight water block........it's somewhere in the middle, but probably safe, right? i wouldn't want to risk it in a comp that gets moved often, but for a stationary box it's probably just fine. where are you seening paranoia? what are you disagreeing with?
 
I've read that some people removing the IHS soaked the CPU (covering just the IHS) in a solution that dissolves the epoxy (or whatever) that sticks the IHS on to the CPU. After 24hrs, it only takes about 15secs to remove it. I think some mentioned Solvoplast.

Any ideas? Safe to do? Anybody try it?
 
Logan321 said:
Dropped my temps by 5C, that's hardly miniscule.
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lmao

risking a $500 loss for a 5 C drop in temps that you'll never even notice?

I think that's the definition of miniscule
 
EnderW said:
lmao

risking a $500 loss for a 5 C drop in temps that you'll never even notice?

I think that's the definition of miniscule
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keep in mind the forum that you're in: 5C might be enough to affect his OC. :D

not much riskier than sub-ambient cooling in many ways, and MUCH cheaper if you screw up.
 
EnderW said:
lmao

risking a $500 loss for a 5 C drop in temps that you'll never even notice?

I think that's the definition of miniscule
Click to expand...

That 5C was enough to enable me to run my 3000+ from erroring out above 2350, to running stable at 2520. So that "miniscule" temp drop yielded me another 170MHz... Still think it's miniscule?
 
As far as it being just careless.. no. I can tell you that it takes very little to crush one of these cores. Ive seen the most experinced overclockers do it. No matter what the cooling situation was. air ..water ..dryice/Ln2..Phase..ect. It just can happen. Now as far as -5 degrees more in temps for the $$$ spent. thats all a personal issue. I have found that even though this is the [H] forum most users here arent as go get-um(or xtreme) on doing such stuff as say at XS or XR or OCX.. Most the guys at those forums are world record holders of Oc's and benchmarks and need and want every lil thing they can get. But as said before removing the IHS does not guarentee you will get -5 degrees or even -1 degrees. Ive seen some that get nothing. Ive also seen plenty that get that -5 degrees and get no benifit in performance. Its all based on the cip. As well as how good the contact between the IHS and the Core is. So I say again. If you wish to do so, feel free. BUT know the risk and the possibilitties.
 
DFI Daishi said:
keep in mind the forum that you're in: 5C might be enough to affect his OC. :D

not much riskier than sub-ambient cooling in many ways, and MUCH cheaper if you screw up.
Click to expand...
Logan321 said:
That 5C was enough to enable me to run my 3000+ from erroring out above 2350, to running stable at 2520. So that "miniscule" temp drop yielded me another 170MHz... Still think it's miniscule?
Click to expand...

I'm aware of the forum I'm in, and I don't expect a lot of support here, but sometime you really have to take a step back and ask yourself if it's worth it or are you just trying to outdo someone else on the internet.

I'm willing to bet you couldn't even tell the difference between 2350MHz and 2520MHz without the aid of a benchmarking program.
 
EnderW said:
I'm aware of the forum I'm in, and I don't expect a lot of support here, but sometime you really have to take a step back and ask yourself if it's worth it or are you just trying to outdo someone else on the internet.

I'm willing to bet you couldn't even tell the difference between 2350MHz and 2520MHz without the aid of a benchmarking program.
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well, i don't know about going from ~2.3 to ~2.5, but going from ~2.3 (on air) to ~2.7(on pelt) certainly made a difference in what settings i can pull off in FEAR. frame rates are more consistent so i can run better lighting, shadows and either slightly higher res or higher AA.

overclocking is an ends unto itself for me. i kind of enjoy tweaking BIOS settings in a perverse kind of way. the added performance in-game is the icing on the cake for me.
 
EnderW said:
I'm willing to bet you couldn't even tell the difference between 2350MHz and 2520MHz without the aid of a benchmarking program.
Click to expand...

It's easy to tell the difference... at 2350MHz I didn't have a cool keychain, and at 2520MHz I do. :cool:
 
DFI Daishi said:
well, i don't know about going from ~2.3 to ~2.5, but going from ~2.3 (on air) to ~2.7(on pelt) certainly made a difference in what settings i can pull off in FEAR. frame rates are more consistent so i can run better lighting, shadows and either slightly higher res or higher AA.

overclocking is an ends unto itself for me. i kind of enjoy tweaking BIOS settings in a perverse kind of way. the added performance in-game is the icing on the cake for me.
Click to expand...
I agree it's fun seeing what a chip can do, but the 4400+ is a $500 chip compared to a 3000+ which can be found for close to $100.
It just comes down to risk vs gain and how big of a loss you're risking.
 
EnderW said:
I agree it's fun seeing what a chip can do, but the 4400+ is a $500 chip compared to a 3000+ which can be found for close to $100.
It just comes down to risk vs gain and how big of a loss you're risking.
Click to expand...
agreed.

however, it's my own opinion that you can minimize the risk with knowledge and care.

i did qualify my own "yes" earlier by noting outside factors the would make the risk unacceptable in my mind.
 
My PC stays put 24/7 all year round, I have a seperate PC for LANing. Only time it gets moved when I decided to tinker with the fans or something.

I think I'm going to try using that solvoplast stuff if I can ever find some. I read about it a few months ago at xtremesystems. I hope I don't crack the core, I'm usually the kind of person who screws the HS/block on tight(even on the athlon XPs) :)

Before I do remove it, is there any modification required with the Swiftech Storm
block?

EDIT: lol "mushking" oops
 
Bop said:
Before I do remove it, is there any modification required with the Swiftech Storm block?
Click to expand...

Hmm... I'd guess no, since it uses a bolt-down retention mechanism, and can be used on multiple socket configurations.

try mounting it straight to the socket, without the cpu installed... if that works, then it'll work with the heatspreader off. :)
 
If you can go down to the hardware store and find some lil sticky back pads (kinda like the ones that were on the old Athlon XP cpu's) it will help you to keep from crushing the core..
 
5C is miniscule, and that is a good result from removing the IHS. You are never guaranteed 5C - ever. You may only get 1C for all you know. It's not worth risking a $500 processor over 500MHz. I'm gonna laugh real hard if you ruin your chip buddy.

This guy has gotten to 2.7 already. He wants to go from 2.7 to 2.75 on a dual core CPU. That is not the same as going from 2.35 to 2.52 on a single core CPU. If you are already at 1.6v, I seriously think that the chip is at its limits.
 
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