If you have an HDR600 monitor or greater, please help

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sblantipodi

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Hi,
I have an Acer XV273K monitor.

It is an HDR400 monitor (so crap HDR) but it have a great 10 bit panel, the same panel used in the HDR1000 monitors from Acer/Asus without FALD.

Sometimes HDR contents looks overbright, sometimes looks good, sometimes I loose many details with a sort of "white crush".
This video is an example:


The parrot is "eating" the three branch but the tree branch is so white, if I disable the HDR content in youtube by setting the 1080P non HDR video, I can see much more details in the tree branch.
Is this a problem of my monitor?

If you have a HDR600 monitor or greater, with that video, by setting HDR on on both Windows and Youtube, do you see that tree branch as details as with HDR off?

Thanks
 
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I'll tell you in a couple hours.

What I will say about the monitor, though, is that HDR mode only changes the color space rendered on the screen and uses a technique called "full screen dimming." In addition to dynamically changing the backlight brightness, contrast is also dynamically changed to try and give the perception that areas that should appear bright really are. That often means blowing out the contrast in either direction, which will cause both "white" and "black" crush depending on what is being displayed. HDR400 is simply a marketing certification offering no real benefit, actually giving disadvantages compared to SDR, in my opinion.

UPDATE: I took a look at the timestamp on my PG27UQ at home and I definitely still see all the detail in the tree branch. The highlight got so bright at one point that I needed to squint, though. I paused it and after letting my eyes adjust I could still see all the detail in the tree branch.
 
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Looks ok on my Asus PG27UQ which is an HDR 1000 display.

One thing that can get weird is if you toggle HDR off in windows without refreshing the video, then things get weird. You can really see at 3:02 with the panda, it's fur just goes completely flat with no detail at all after you toggle HDR off in windows. With HDR on, it looks perfect, if you refresh with HDR off, it looks OK, just not HDR.

You might be having an issue with your monitor not toggling into HDR mode or something automatically causing a color space mismatch (what I was trying to describe above).

As for how you fix that... The only thing I can think of is make sure you are using display port, other than that I'm not sure.
 
Canon said:
Looks ok on my Asus PG27UQ which is an HDR 1000 display.

One thing that can get weird is if you toggle HDR off in windows without refreshing the video, then things get weird. You can really see at 3:02 with the panda, it's fur just goes completely flat with no detail at all after you toggle HDR off in windows. With HDR on, it looks perfect, if you refresh with HDR off, it looks OK, just not HDR.

You might be having an issue with your monitor not toggling into HDR mode or something automatically causing a color space mismatch (what I was trying to describe above).

As for how you fix that... The only thing I can think of is make sure you are using display port, other than that I'm not sure.
Click to expand...

thanks for the answer.

the video I posted is ok on my monitor but some parts are over bright with detail loss.
have you seen the part of the video with the parrot that bite the tree branch?

is the three branch as detailed in HDR as in SDR?
 
I have an Acer VG271U HDR400 monitor and using AMD Radeon display adjustments I can make the video you linked to look pretty good. I used the Mehanik HDR test patterns to do this. I have decided to just use it as a very good SDR monitor.
 
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MaZa said:
If in HDR it calls for a brighter details than what your monitor/tv is capable of then the result is clipping.

Click to expand...


This videos shows bad monitors for comparisons.
My XV273K uses the same panel of the PG27UQ but it lacks FALD.

I'm sure that the HDR range is so worse than PG27UQ that have a good FALD but I don't expect white crash because of the good 10 bit panel.

Am I wrong?
 
let's make "more" scientific xD

when HDR is enabled in both monitor and windows,

in this video to test for white clipping I can see clear difference until 155 nit, the sixth tile.

PG27UQ is an HDR monster, how much tile can you clearly see when HDR is enabled on monitor/windows?
how many tile can you see on non monsters like other HDR600 monitors?

thanks
 
sblantipodi said:
This videos shows bad monitors for comparisons.
My XV273K uses the same panel of the PG27UQ but it lacks FALD.

I'm sure that the HDR range is so worse than PG27UQ that have a good FALD but I don't expect white crash because of the good 10 bit panel.

Am I wrong?
Click to expand...

To my knowledge unless there is some tone mapping happening then clipping is what occurs when the HDR video calls for a brighter detail than what the screen is capable of. Bits are irrelevant in this case, it matters more in the reduction of banding.
 
sblantipodi said:
let's make "more" scientific xD

when HDR is enabled in both monitor and windows,

in this video to test for white clipping I can see clear difference until 155 nit, the sixth tile.

PG27UQ is an HDR monster, how much tile can you clearly see when HDR is enabled on monitor/windows?
how many tile can you see on non monsters like other HDR600 monitors?

thanks
Click to expand...


I will test his video when I get home. My KS7500 should be UHD Premium capable. (TV equivalent for HDR 1000).
 
MaZa said:
I will test his video when I get home. My KS7500 should be UHD Premium capable. (TV equivalent for HDR 1000).
Click to expand...

thank you, it would be really interesting to test this video even on other HDR400 monitors and more interestingly on HDR600 and HDR1000 monitor :)
 
sblantipodi said:
thank you, it would be really interesting to test this video even on other HDR400 monitors and more interestingly on HDR600 and HDR1000 monitor :)
Click to expand...

Okay, my KS7500 using its built-in Youtube app gets to 897 nit mark and it is clearly visible against the background. The 1011 nit and above is clipped away.
 
Here is another video to test, just against black background. Here the greyscale range increases step by step from black and near black to 3000 nits and beyond. Mine turns to solid white around 1000 nits mark, above that there is nothing but whiteness.

 
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MaZa said:
Okay, my KS7500 using its built-in Youtube app gets to 897 nit mark and it is clearly visible against the background. The 1011 nit and above is clipped away.
Click to expand...

still don't understand why my monitor scores a so low result.
in the white clipping test I can barely see the sixth patch which is 155 nit. my monitor should be able of 400 nit at least.
 
For shits and giggles try using limited RGB range (and/or Ycbcr mode), as counter intuitive as it may seem. At least with Shadow Warrior 2, which was first OC HDR game before Windows support even officially happened, conflicted with full RGB range and you got washed out picture. With PS4 also full RGB range screwed things up with FF7 Remake which is the only HDR capable PS4 game that I have at the moment.

*Edit* and if you have ps4 also try your monitor with that and test the youtube videos.
 
ok I probably found the problem.
it seems that the

windows10-windows-hd-color-settings.jpg

sdr content appearance slider affect my youtube videos.
I have that slider at 40 and it causes white clipping even on youtube HDR video.
why? isn't that slider only relative to SDR content?

setting that slider to 0 completely solved all my white clipping problems :O
why I don't understand.
 
Windows HDR support is wonky at best. If I have to guess it may not even realise the Youtube videos you watch are HDR.
 
MaZa said:
Windows HDR support is wonky at best. If I have to guess it may not even realise the Youtube videos you watch are HDR.
Click to expand...

HDR ON vs HDR OFF is night and day, so HDR should be enaged in youtube.
far better with HDR on
 
Checked OP's video.

Samsung CRG9, 49", 5120x1440, DisplayHDR1000 with 10 zone local dimming, 100 Hz, 10-bit, HDR on.
Video set to 2160p HDR.

SDR slider has no effect on the video image quality and I don't see any white crush issues.

On a positive note, Microsoft has fixed something regarding HDR on Windows 10 version 2004 because HDR on my CRG9 no longer looks washed out at least in daylight (it doesn't even get properly dark during the summer here in Finland). In fact the HDR looked pretty impressive overall. Very pleasantly surprised.
 
kasakka said:
Checked OP's video.

Samsung CRG9, 49", 5120x1440, DisplayHDR1000 with 10 zone local dimming, 100 Hz, 10-bit, HDR on.
Video set to 2160p HDR.

SDR slider has no effect on the video image quality and I don't see any white crush issues.

On a positive note, Microsoft has fixed something regarding HDR on Windows 10 version 2004 because HDR on my CRG9 no longer looks washed out at least in daylight (it doesn't even get properly dark during the summer here in Finland). In fact the HDR looked pretty impressive overall. Very pleasantly surprised.
Click to expand...

I'm using Windows 10 1909 and that slider have huge effect on white clipping but I'm pretty sure that HDR is on since the image in HDR is pretty different.
Probably is something fixed with 2004?
 
sblantipodi said:
I'm using Windows 10 1909 and that slider have huge effect on white clipping but I'm pretty sure that HDR is on since the image in HDR is pretty different.
Probably is something fixed with 2004?
Click to expand...
The slider shouldn't have any effect at all when viewing HDR content when HDR is enabled.
 
sblantipodi said:
thanks for the answer.

the video I posted is ok on my monitor but some parts are over bright with detail loss.
have you seen the part of the video with the parrot that bite the tree branch?

is the three branch as detailed in HDR as in SDR?
Click to expand...
Yea, it looks totally fine to me.
 
sblantipodi said:
ok I probably found the problem.
it seems that the

View attachment 253032

sdr content appearance slider affect my youtube videos.
I have that slider at 40 and it causes white clipping even on youtube HDR video.
why? isn't that slider only relative to SDR content?

setting that slider to 0 completely solved all my white clipping problems :O
why I don't understand.
Click to expand...


Thank you for this. Ever since I upgraded to Windows 10 2004, I've lost color saturation in YouTube HDR videos. Setting the slider to 0 fixed this.

I'm using a Vega 56. Not sure why this wasn't an issue for me with the previous Windows 10 version.
 
I have a few HDR400 monitors. They look okay in games (not great but not horrible either), however YouTube is absolutely blown out and not good.

About a month ago, I found a flag in Chrome you could change the color space, and this worked. The HDR videos looked great, but the whole rest of the browser, and all webpages, were grayed out.

Firefox doesn't support HDR at all and Edge has the same problem as Chrome does. And that flag has been removed by Google, so I can't find a way to use YT HDR.

This may be exasperated by poor HDR panels, but then games look good, so that can't be the whole story.
 
MaZa said:
Here is another video to test, just against black background. Here the greyscale range increases step by step from black and near black to 3000 nits and beyond. Mine turns to solid white around 1000 nits mark, above that there is nothing but whiteness.

Click to expand...


that’s actually really interesting. Hadn’t realised how different the performance was between different colors. My experience with video professionally was pre-HDR so it was pretty much just color space. As long as that was accurate enough it didn’t matter. Just wheel your 20k tiny Sony reference monitor round all the suites so they could check.

You can see why the film industry is trying to make tv settings more consistent. It’d drive you crazy if you were a colorist/dop/director etc, it’s bad enough for me when I go to someone’s house and they have an LCD.
 
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