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If upgrading right now today...

Zorachus

Zorachus

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Dec 17, 2006
Messages
12,483
My Brother would like to buy my main parts in sig, just the motherboard, cpu, and memory. He is itching for a better system update, and I am willing to sell him parts for cheap. I also have left over DDR2 already for myself.

Now for me, I have been building my own systems for 10+ years, and in general I have a few rules on how much I am willing to splurge on parts. The most I spend is on Videocards, I will go for broke on a killer card, but already have a good for one for now, until next year. So in general I will go up to maybe $250 at most for a motherboard, maybe $350/400 or so on cpu, and $200 roughly on memory, but I have 4gb DDR2 sitting here on desk. So lets round it off near $750 + I am willing to go for new main parts, the rest of stuff in sig is nice and staying.

So do you recommend I wait until Nov 16th and get a cheap Nehalem system, but for a mobo, cpu, and DDR3 that will run at least like $800/900 ?

Or better off getting like a Asus X48 Rampage, Q9550 cpu, and maybe 2 more sticks of memory to give me total of 8gb DDR2. I already have extra DDR2. That right there would just run me approx $600+

So for like $600 I would get X48 motherboard, Q9550 CPU, and total 8gb DDR2. Or spend closer to $900+ to get X58 Nehalem motherboard, the lowest new CPU i920, and 6gb DDR3.

I rather not really spend that much cash right now, but willing to if the difference is worth it. Oh yeah and general I upgrade my mainboard parts maybe every 12-18months
 
Come on someone please reply, I know this is the first time you have ever seen this question on this here

If upgrading just core components today with a budget well under $1000, would you just go Q9550 + X48 motherboard, or wait for i920 Nehalem and X58 mainboard, but will cost more due to needed DDR3
 
In my opinion, I wouldn't be so keen on jumping the bandwagon to be a guinea pig for a new architecture. Nehalem won't be so cheap. I'd go for the top end of the current architecture as for now. If you will be upgrading every 12-18 months, by that time the Nehalem would be cheaper and more apps will be able to take advantage of multi cores. However I wouldn't waste money on 8GB (even if they are cheap) for the current architecture and especially if you're not going for 64bit. I think its pointless to upgrade to 8GB when you will be upgrading to DDR3 in a year.
 
D3z said:
In my opinion, I wouldn't be so keen on jumping the bandwagon to be a guinea pig for a new architecture. Nehalem won't be so cheap. I'd go for the top end of the current architecture as for now. If you will be upgrading every 12-18 months, by that time the Nehalem would be cheaper and more apps will be able to take advantage of multi cores. However I wouldn't waste money on 8GB (even if they are cheap) for the current architecture and especially if you're not going for 64bit. I think its pointless to upgrade to 8GB when you will be upgrading to DDR3 in a year.
Click to expand...

Agree with the new architecture part. But come on, $110 will get you 8GB of some pretty darn decent ram shipped!

And 64 bit Vista is the only operating system other than XP that's worth a darn for gaming right now, and I assume you will be gaming with this system.

I am interested to see where this thread goes, and more input, as I myself am contemplating a 45nm upgrade for my Q6700 just to achieve better temps ...
 
SirKronan said:
And 64 bit Vista is the only operating system other than XP that's worth a darn for gaming right now, and I assume you will be gaming with this system.
Click to expand...

True.. and I wish I can use 64.. my only problem is that X-fi has alot of issues with Vista64. At the same time, do you see much performance boost with 8GB for gaming? I hardly notice any difference for anything beyond 4GB, I'm not using any memory intensive apps anyway - okay, faster image manipulation on photoshop and thats about it for what I use. I'd use that $100 on something else - for example.. if it was me, I'd get a sound card upgrade with $100 :D
 
go cheap

get a Gigabyte UD3 series board and a E8400. Less than $300 for both. Stick with 4GB of ram

why put up all that money now when you know you will get a Nehalem pretty soon anyways :)
 
D3z said:
True.. and I wish I can use 64.. my only problem is that X-fi has alot of issues with Vista64. At the same time, do you see much performance boost with 8GB for gaming? I hardly notice any difference for anything beyond 4GB, I'm not using any memory intensive apps anyway - okay, faster image manipulation on photoshop and thats about it for what I use. I'd use that $100 on something else - for example.. if it was me, I'd get a sound card upgrade with $100 :D
Click to expand...

I've been using an HT Omega Striker from the get-go on this rig with zero problems, and I believe it uses a Creative chip. For sure it has EAX. And none of my Soundblaster branded stuff has had issues, but I have only used my older audigy's. The HT Omega striker is a beauty of a soundcard and has been amazing. I'm glad I purchased it for my new rig, instead of going with a X-Fi.

But my other friend that runs Vista 64 had a few issues at first, but since service pack one he's had zero issues with his X-Fi, too. I think you'll be fine.

64 bit is so much more stable, it seems. Even in games that are 32 bit or won't take up all 8GB of ram.

And being able to let your indexing service run, while prefetching favorite apps, while at the same time playing a game that will use up 2-3gb of ram ... that is a normal scenario. It could happen to you, too, and having the 8GB will help your PC maintain a more snappy feeling. Vista will take advantage of all that ram and as it tunes itself, you will see boosts in performance, and your system will end up being very fast and very stable.
 
Zorachus said:
So do you recommend I wait until Nov 16th and get a cheap Nehalem system, but for a mobo, cpu, and DDR3 that will run at least like $800/900 ?
Click to expand...

Wha?? :confused: :eek:

I think, at least initially, that will be an oxymoron. I'd buy a high-end system on today's Core2 architecture. :)
 
Valnar said:
Wha?? :confused: :eek:

I think, at least initially, that will be an oxymoron. I'd buy a high-end system on today's Core2 architecture. :)
Click to expand...


Thanks, most likely will get the Asus Rampage X48...Q9550...what is the best fan ?...maybe thinking of getting new drive too, possibly the new WD 150gb Velicoraptor ?

I already have 4gb of Corsair XMS DDR2 6400 sitting on my desk from a birthday gift to me this Summer, should I go for another extra 4gb only costs like $70 right now, will give me total of 8gb DDR2-6400
 
Zorachus said:
Thanks, most likely will get the Asus Rampage X48...Q9550...what is the best fan ?...maybe thinking of getting new drive too, possibly the new WD 150gb Velicoraptor ?

I already have 4gb of Corsair XMS DDR2 6400 sitting on my desk from a birthday gift to me this Summer, should I go for another extra 4gb only costs like $70 right now, will give me total of 8gb DDR2-6400
Click to expand...

If you're going to overclock the system, doesn't having all RAM slots(hehe) filled make it harder to keep the system stable? I know it can be done but I also know it's a pain.
 
Shawnasee said:
If you're going to overclock the system, doesn't having all RAM slots(hehe) filled make it harder to keep the system stable? I know it can be done but I also know it's a pain.
Click to expand...

Also, just because you're going Yorkfield, why overspend, especially if Nehalem is eventually in your plans?

Also, the fact that you're going to hold onto the CPU for less than the length of the warranty (Intel CPUs still have that three-year warranty, if you buy retail-boxed, that is) actually somewhat points *against* any extreme overclocking (also, once you get to a one-third gain overclock (3 GHz), even the best-air-cooled Yorkfield starts to hit the point of diminishing returns (because of the apps, not the processor)).

I have a Yorkfield-ready (don't laugh) mATX mobo that is quite capable of dialing up a Yorkfield to 3 GHz (even with stock air cooling), and it cost me less than $100 (ASUS P5N-EM HDMI, and it cost me $81 local brick-and-mortar). I plan on holding on to it until at least 2010 (however, I originally bought the ASUS P4C800-E Deluxe in 2004, and it's still going strong), and I bought it because the ASRock 4COREDualSATA R2 I originally wanted was not available, and for the Yorkfield capability, even though it's mATX and my plans are around Q6600 initially; not to mention that it forces me into buying RAM, which I was trying to avoid).
 
Shawnasee said:
If you're going to overclock the system, doesn't having all RAM slots(hehe) filled make it harder to keep the system stable? I know it can be done but I also know it's a pain.
Click to expand...

It is harder to maintain an OC with 4 slots fills compared with 2 slots filled. Some times you have to up voltage, sometimes timings must be relaxed, sometimes FSB must be reduced. Depends on the mobo and sticks of course and as always YMMV. It can be done.
 
$750 will get you a 3GB nehalem CPU/mobo/ram. Add ≈$150 for 6GB. (3GB of ram being confirmed at $132, 6GB at $285 (kingston ram, used 3x1 or 3x2).

Will it be faster than an OCed yorkfield? Not too much. Will it be upgradable for longer? Yup. Upt to the user.

IF you end up going yorkfield, build it cheap, get a stable OC to 3.6 or so, and relax for a year, build up funds, and buy a kickass GT300/RV8xx machine.
 
personally I don't see the point in overbuying at this point.

Either buy cheap now or wait and see how these new chips work out.

I am in the buy cheap now camp. I would certainly look for a bang for the buck motherboard and not worry about the get the best because regardless how much you spend, in a month it is going to be outdated.

Bang for the buck is the game to play today.
 
zeekle said:
personally I don't see the point in overbuying at this point.

Either buy cheap now or wait and see how these new chips work out.

I am in the buy cheap now camp. I would certainly look for a bang for the buck motherboard and not worry about the get the best because regardless how much you spend, in a month it is going to be outdated.

Bang for the buck is the game to play today.
Click to expand...

I'm in the same camp myself but there are a number of guys here who live on the bleeding edge. Some really keep it [H]
 
Hey why crossfire-specific board when you have a 280

9550 (make sure its an E0)
either a good p45 or sli board
though sli board may hinder oc capabilites

you're looking at 4ghz stable if you go with p45
or go sli if you want another 280 in the future!
if you go x48, are you swapping for ati cards?
 
More I think about it, might be smarter to wait for Nehalem ? I mean if I am willing to spend close to $600/700, for just a tad bit more can get me a X58, i920 + 3 sticks DDR3 for like $800 or so ?

And that should be even a little faster than a X48 and Q9550 with 4gb DDR2 ? Plus will give me some legs to keep much longer, and just replace the CPU for like a i990 or faster in 2009. Because I know myself I will be happy as heck to have the X48 and decked out right now, but come November I would get envious of not having the latest and greatest and felt like I wasted the cash
 
Question is... why buy Nehalem in the begining? Next thing you know.. the x58 is buggy..4 months later.. next gen chipset that beats the crap out of X58 comes out. Then what? The price you pay for a Nehalem in the begining will be sky high - unless you go for the lower end chip - then what? buy a new chip when the price drops? or buy 32nm when it comes out? either way, you're still wasting cash anyways. Its actually ridiculous how we keep trying to keep up with technology. I've just bought my rig.. yes.. a Q6600 and I have no problems with gaming or the applications I use.
If you are working on 3D rendering applications or encoding, then yeah, Nehalem will fit you. But right now, I really dont see any point for it.
I'd rather get a top end quad and sit on it for another 2 years. But then again.. thats just me...
 
Actually I am doing 180 again :rolleyes:

More and more I Google the i7 stuff, it is actually slower in some game apps now, and there is rumor of a memory bug, that slot 0 must be filled for it to work, and Intel themselves admit X58 too far along to change, will have to wait for P55 and later X68. I don't want to have issues with a brand new architecture being flaky.

I am thinking maybe the even number X series Intel mainboards are the sure and safest bet ? I mean the X38 was brand new at the time and had some issues but the X48 is perfect from what I hear ? Could be same for X58, it is totally brand new, but the X68 due later in 2009 will be revised and have the bugs worked out ?
 
Zorachus said:
Actually I am doing 180 again :rolleyes:

More and more I Google the i7 stuff, it is actually slower in some game apps now, and there is rumor of a memory bug, that slot 0 must be filled for it to work, and Intel themselves admit X58 too far along to change, will have to wait for P55 and later X68. I don't want to have issues with a brand new architecture being flaky.

I am thinking maybe the even number X series Intel mainboards are the sure and safest bet ? I mean the X38 was brand new at the time and had some issues but the X48 is perfect from what I hear ? Could be same for X58, it is totally brand new, but the X68 due later in 2009 will be revised and have the bugs worked out ?
Click to expand...

You know there really is a pattern there sometimes. Some people prefer to buy on a tick. Some on a tock. Some prefer a tick to have the latest and greatest cutting (sometimes bleeding) edge stuff. Some would rather buy on a tock and get that technology after it's had a price drop, die shrink, or at the very list a bit of refinement.

One of my friends bought an 8800 Ultra right when they came out. He held off on buying the GTX just so he could buy the Ultra. He's had that card for well over a year, modded its BIOS, overclocked the crap out of the thing on air, then overclocked even more "the crap" out of the thing after watercooling it.

His overclocked ultra cost him like $700 dollars! But ask him if he regrets it? Heck no! He still has a card that can handle all the latest games quite well. It takes a 9800GTX+ at the very least just to beat it by any margin humanly noticeable. He's gotten an extraordinary amount of usage out of it.

The thing is, he bought an extremely good brand of card - EVGA. The Ultra was EVGA's "crown prince" at the time, so to speak. They made sure those cards were the best of the best 8800's, all the kinks worked out, beyond extremely overclockable, and more future-proof than any other card on the market. Even today he can download the latest physx packs and enjoy most of the new eye candy. It took a year for ATI and nVidia to come out with anything other than dual GPU - whether single or dual card - that could beat it.

But you're not just buying a graphics card. You'd be buying into a whole entire architecture - RAM, chipset, processor, all on the very cutting edge. If it were just a video card and it kept crapping out on you or giving you fits, as long as you bought it from a reputable cardmaker like EVGA, BFG, XFX, Visiontek, etc., they would keep taking care of you. And while they're fixing your card how hard it is to throw down 100 bucks on an 8800GT to get you buy??

If you struggle with you X58 and have to send that back in for repairs you'll be sitting on RAM you can't use and a CPU you can't use, and a Windows installation that is not likely to be happy with a new chipset from a motherboard you throw in to "get you by."

DDR2 is so cheap and so mainstream. Excellent Core 2 chips abound. P45 is an economical, solid performing, and very stable/robust chipset. X48 is also exceptional, with boards hitting $200 on good sales now a days.

Just something to think about. Are stability, ability to quickly and cheaply remedy, wealth of support options, and cost your top factors? Or is future upgradeability, and having all the latest and greatest architecture priority number one? And is money even a big issue? Your answers to those questions should help you pick.
 
As you said, some buy on a tick, some on a tock.
Ill buy the i7 on the arch and a new laptop on the shrink. Speed for desktop, power improvements on the laptop. Sounds like a plan to me.
 
GLSauron said:
As you said, some buy on a tick, some on a tock.
Ill buy the i7 on the arch and a new laptop on the shrink. Speed for desktop, power improvements on the laptop. Sounds like a plan to me.
Click to expand...

See, now from an enthusiast point of view that makes sense, and if you can afford it (maybe something from your nickname gave me a clue :p) then why not?

Just depends on priorities, and budget.
 
Zorachus said:
Actually I am doing 180 again :rolleyes:

More and more I Google the i7 stuff, it is actually slower in some game apps now, and there is rumor of a memory bug, that slot 0 must be filled for it to work, and Intel themselves admit X58 too far along to change, will have to wait for P55 and later X68. I don't want to have issues with a brand new architecture being flaky.

I am thinking maybe the even number X series Intel mainboards are the sure and safest bet ? I mean the X38 was brand new at the time and had some issues but the X48 is perfect from what I hear ? Could be same for X58, it is totally brand new, but the X68 due later in 2009 will be revised and have the bugs worked out ?
Click to expand...

lol.. as mentioned by several posters... it depends on priorities and how willingly are you going to go for it without regrets (if there is any). As mentioned earlier.. I dont believe in the 'latest tech bandwagon'.. I'll just wait til the guinea pig phase is over...

scenario 1: Play it safe..buy top end x48 quad, stay with it till 32nm comes out - upgrade.
scenario 2: Go with the technology - buy Nehalem low end.. might be buggy.. but what the heck.. upgrade again when 32nm or X68 is out.
a) good chipset, bad cpu - upgrade cpu
b) bad chipset, good cpu - upgrade mobo
c) bad chipset, bad cpu... Whats the point?
scenario 3: Go uber, get the top end... next thing you know.. AMD blind-sighted Intel and all of us and release an ultimate CPU with a cheaper price.

No matter which route you take, you're still wasting money. lol - just find the route that makes you spend the least possible.
 
Suprfire said:
Hey why crossfire-specific board when you have a 280

9550 (make sure its an E0)
either a good p45 or sli board
though sli board may hinder oc capabilites

you're looking at 4ghz stable if you go with p45
or go sli if you want another 280 in the future!
if you go x48, are you swapping for ati cards?
Click to expand...
4ghz with a Q9550 on p45? huh?
 
Sigh, I hate it when new technology comes out, I bite and end up regretting it. But I won't this time since I just got a new case, and x58 isn't Matx.
 
Markistehnamezor said:
Sigh, I hate it when new technology comes out, I bite and end up regretting it. But I won't this time since I just got a new case, and x58 isn't Matx.
Click to expand...
It will be within a couple months :)

I got the title for mentioning to Kyle one day that my grandmother had bought me a dell 2000FP around november 2003 (right before the 2001 came out). In those days, a 15" LCD was impressive and a 17" VERY impressive, so a 20".... :D
 
lol.. its like karma.. a never ending cycle.
When dealing with technology, you have to fire and forget.. buy your parts and be happy with it. My sig below.. I bought it 2.5 months ago and I'm happy with it as it gives me the performance I require, so I'm happy with my investment.

If you want Nehalem, get Nehalem.. if you want Quad.. get Quad.. and be happy and use your system as it is intended. Doesn't make sense to have doubts then regret about it later.
 
I'm happy with my system, I'm just one of those guys that buys something. Gets in the car and thinks "Wtf did i just buy this for"? This happened to me last sunday, I went to taco bell and got the grande meal where you got to pick 10 items. I get home I was like, Why did I just spend $9 on this?
 
well my pentium 4 i got that in the tock cycle and damm i regret for a number of reasons.
A. the latest new gen was ALOT better then p4's from AMD,
B. AGP was practicly dead and we saw the birth of PCI-E

I dont want to make the same mistake twice by buying last gen stuff when the next gen stuff is just around the corner.

How long till a q9450 become a bottleneck for pc games? How long will pci-E survive? will we see another GPU interface?

What about the next gen cards likely to come out end of next year? ie ati 5870's/Nvidia 380's? will a q9450 be a bottleneck for those cards?

What about windows 7? it could well and truelly run faster on a nehalem system then on a core 2 system.

what about other intensive software such has photoshop CS5? cubase 2009 edition? adobe premier pro 2009 edition?

The reason why we see nehalem not making much impact on current software(note the word current) is because maybe, just maybe these softwares out today wasnt programed to take advantage of the nehalem architecture. if im not mistaken, there are a SHIT load of new features in nehalem right?

you have got to think about tomorrow, not today when it comes to building pc's.

if you go with nehalem like im planning to, one things for sure, the next gen GPU cards will not be held back by any nehalem cpu unless someone can prove otherwise?


My bro bought the first core 2 system after around 4 months after it was released and till this day his still laughing and doesn't regret it. he has oc'd it a bit and i have tossed in a 4850 card and he still playing the latest games with ease. the cpu he has is a E6300 clocked at around 2.4ghz with 4gb ddr2 ram(started at 1gb) .

it has last him a very long time. buying a core 2 wont last long. i'd say a max of a year before it starts age a while and like i said, you never know, the next gen GPU's maybe held back buy a core 2 cpu.

I have customized a shopping list of a typical core 2 system i would buy and it comes just only slightly cheaper then a nehalem system. a quad core q9450 will costs nearly the same amount has a i7 920, i imagine the psu will cost the same, ddr3 with 3gb costs double but ddr2 ram is so cheap that doubling the price of ddr2 is still not that expensive. a typical p45.x48 mobo costs around 3/4 of a x58 mobo. i could build a 1k core 2 now with a quad ,4gb and a 280gtx but i can also build a x58,ddr3, i7 920 along with just a 260gtx for a similar if not the same price.

thats just my 2cents on the matter
 
since we dont know what x68 might entail, its likely but not guarenteed. Depends on what bus they base it on, along with the voltage fun that intel seems to do.
 
jonneymendoza said:
well my pentium 4 i got that in the tock cycle and damm i regret for a number of reasons.
A. the latest new gen was ALOT better then p4's from AMD,
B. AGP was practicly dead and we saw the birth of PCI-E

I dont want to make the same mistake twice by buying last gen stuff when the next gen stuff is just around the corner.

How long till a q9450 become a bottleneck for pc games? How long will pci-E survive? will we see another GPU interface?

What about the next gen cards likely to come out end of next year? ie ati 5870's/Nvidia 380's? will a q9450 be a bottleneck for those cards?

What about windows 7? it could well and truelly run faster on a nehalem system then on a core 2 system.

what about other intensive software such has photoshop CS5? cubase 2009 edition? adobe premier pro 2009 edition?

The reason why we see nehalem not making much impact on current software(note the word current) is because maybe, just maybe these softwares out today wasnt programed to take advantage of the nehalem architecture. if im not mistaken, there are a SHIT load of new features in nehalem right?

you have got to think about tomorrow, not today when it comes to building pc's.

if you go with nehalem like im planning to, one things for sure, the next gen GPU cards will not be held back by any nehalem cpu unless someone can prove otherwise?


My bro bought the first core 2 system after around 4 months after it was released and till this day his still laughing and doesn't regret it. he has oc'd it a bit and i have tossed in a 4850 card and he still playing the latest games with ease. the cpu he has is a E6300 clocked at around 2.4ghz with 4gb ddr2 ram(started at 1gb) .

it has last him a very long time. buying a core 2 wont last long. i'd say a max of a year before it starts age a while and like i said, you never know, the next gen GPU's maybe held back buy a core 2 cpu.

I have customized a shopping list of a typical core 2 system i would buy and it comes just only slightly cheaper then a nehalem system. a quad core q9450 will costs nearly the same amount has a i7 920, i imagine the psu will cost the same, ddr3 with 3gb costs double but ddr2 ram is so cheap that doubling the price of ddr2 is still not that expensive. a typical p45.x48 mobo costs around 3/4 of a x58 mobo. i could build a 1k core 2 now with a quad ,4gb and a 280gtx but i can also build a x58,ddr3, i7 920 along with just a 260gtx for a similar if not the same price.

thats just my 2cents on the matter
Click to expand...

Don't worry about PCI-E dying out quite yet. PCI-E 3.0 is still down the pipe, and it will be backwards compatible still with 2.0 & 1.0.

BTW, I have my E6300 at 3.0GHz with ease. Does your brother overclock? That's a great CPU to hit 3.0GHz with little fuss. Just my two cents.
 
D3z said:
True.. and I wish I can use 64.. my only problem is that X-fi has alot of issues with Vista64. At the same time, do you see much performance boost with 8GB for gaming? I hardly notice any difference for anything beyond 4GB, I'm not using any memory intensive apps anyway - okay, faster image manipulation on photoshop and thats about it for what I use. I'd use that $100 on something else - for example.. if it was me, I'd get a sound card upgrade with $100 :D
Click to expand...

No problems at all with Vista x64 and X-Fi. There were a few minor issues before Creative released a few driver updates.. and before SP1.. but it works perfectly fine now.

There are even some new beta X-Fi drivers available from Guru3d.com that add a few features.
 
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