iBUYPOWER P4 Custom @ [H] Consumer

GForce64 said:
Wow, that was a horrid system 0-o

Good review. I honestly wouldn't have decked them points for the PSU in this case. Even though we all know it was pretty much a box full of shit, it still worked, and you had NO stability problems. I'm not sure how much that factored into the score, though.
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It was more of a cautionary point that we wanted to really drive home. You could have configured this system with VERY power hungry components and received a "stock" PSU that could not support it.
 
Chris_Morley said:
It was more of a cautionary point that we wanted to really drive home. You could have configured this system with VERY power hungry components and received a "stock" PSU that could not support it.
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Don't get me wrong; I think the review was accurate, but this one point may be a bit of a red herring.

Since you didn't order the system with components that required a beefier PSU, I don't think you can assume that the same PSU would have been used.
As you stated in the article, the PSU *did* handle the setup you bought.
If you ordered components that were more power-hungry, they may well have installed a beefier POS supply. :D
 
Chris - This is a little offtopic, but do you guys plan on doing laptop system reviews as well? Cause I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd be interested in your take on the mobile segment too. Getting an informed recommendation on a notebook that isn't an aircraft carrier in size or weight, has a decent battery life, and can still do a decent job at gaming if requested seems to be too much to ask these days.

 
gathagan said:
Since you didn't order the system with components that required a beefier PSU, I don't think you can assume that the same PSU would have been used.
As you stated in the article, the PSU *did* handle the setup you bought.
If you ordered components that were more power-hungry, they may well have installed a beefier POS supply. :D
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Always keep in mind, they were evaluating a mid-range system. With the kind of components [H] was using, they didn't need a beefier PSU.
 
uzor said:
Chris - This is a little offtopic, but do you guys plan on doing laptop system reviews as well? Cause I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd be interested in your take on the mobile segment too. Getting an informed recommendation on a notebook that isn't an aircraft carrier in size or weight, has a decent battery life, and can still do a decent job at gaming if requested seems to be too much to ask these days.

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I'd like to second this request. I'd love to see more laptops with a mid-range video card that comes decked out in the 1500$ range reviewed.
 
GForce64 said:
I'd like to second this request. I'd love to see more laptops with a mid-range video card that comes decked out in the 1500$ range reviewed.
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Got 'em coming.
 
Wow, just wow. I must say I was surprised at the review. We use their systems here at our Cyber cafe and they have been rock solid gaming rigs for two years now.

Maybe because we order in bulk we received better service from them? We have had only one hardware failure (video card, 6800gt) that was quickly corrected via a cross shipment. All our computers arrived with ibuypower branded boxes via a shipping company, all at the same time, all in perfect condition.

Because we are gamers we know where to upgrade from the defaults, ie. power, video, memory, and do not go into the selection process "blind". We did not order ours without an OS and are surprised you guys missed that selection.

Maybe Dell and the like would be a much better choice for the "consumer" level type of reviews you are doing now at the [H]?. Or possible split them up into two categories, One where you are playing "dumb" and base it on support and the ability of the company to protect you from yourself, and one where you use your knowledge to order correctly and base the review on the gaming value (where ibuypowered shined), just a thought.

And considering they build them for a VERY small amount more than we could do it ourselves by purchasing the parts online they will continue to get our business.

iBuypower has done a great job for us and we are about to order another 12 machines from
them.

My 2 cents......

Brent

www.langamezone.com/main
 
I`m struggling to see why you were so down on the PSU. It caused you no problems whatsoever for the system you ordered. You can not say it would not be suitable if you had ordered a more powerful system, you didnt order a more powerful system. If you did, maybe a better PSU would have been fitted.

I can understand all the other issues you have, but the PSU WAS `fit for purpose`.

Nige.
 
brent_anderson said:
. . . and one where you use your knowledge to order correctly and base the review on the gaming value (where ibuypowered shined), just a thought.
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The internet is already full of reviews like this that don't cover the rest of the buying experience. I can absolutely see the situation portrayed in the review happening:

I have played a game or two, and want to get a better computer for it. Knowing that something like a Compaq isn't going to be a great gaming PC, I pick up a magazine, say PCGamer. Flipping through the ads in the mag, I see a cool looking full page ad with various system specs and cool pictures. When comparing the systems in the back, the iBuyPower systems seem to be just as "gamery" as the others listed, but are a bit cheaper. Being frugal myself, I fo with the IBP to save some money. I get to the website, and do the best I can with the options I have on a base system in my price range, and what little I know about hardware (but would like to start learning more sometime!). Make my selections, and hit "Purchase"....

You obviously have the knowledge and skill to make up for the faults that Chris et. al. found, so for you, you get a good hardware build at a good cost. My example above, however, does not.

 
nigel.pinder said:
I`m struggling to see why you were so down on the PSU. It caused you no problems whatsoever for the system you ordered. You can not say it would not be suitable if you had ordered a more powerful system, you didnt order a more powerful system. If you did, maybe a better PSU would have been fitted.

I can understand all the other issues you have, but the PSU WAS `fit for purpose`.

Nige.
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Ok, disregard any criticism I had of the PSU. The scores would be the same, across the board.
 
I must have caught ibuypower before they got really bad. Lucky me?

Two summers ago, I ordered my first ever, "gaming pc" from them. I was getting ready for D3/HL2, and I needed something good under $1500. Went with one of their GamerFX's... 9800 Pro, AMD 3200+, etc. $1200 after I paid for their best shipping. It took a week to get there. They promptly answered all my questions over the phone - and I was ordering by money order, where it should have taken much longer, but didn't.

When it arrived, everything was in tact, save for a white mark on the front bezel, which I assume was due to UPS rather... I hate UPS.

I only ordered one DVD drive... but I did, in fact, get DVD encoding software - Power DVD 5. Also included were all the right driver CDs, Home XP SP1 disc, and everything else I needed.

My PSU wasn't the best... a 420w PSU who's name I can't even remember now. But you know, that PSU lasted me up until last December, and I was running an X850XT PE just fine.

I never had to contact support, save for when I wanted to order a part for my case (Nzxt Guardian) that was only being sold through them. That was a hell of a quick and painless process.

Like I said, I must have got lucky. I build my own PCs now, but I had a far better first-time experience with ibuypower... I would order from them again, although cautiously now.
 
Nice review.

People fail to realize that experiences vary and that you don't expect every person to have gone through the same situation.

In most cases this offsets a few negative points, but in this case I could NEVER EVER recommend someone I know who is not computer savvy to ever buy a computer from this company. Even if I set it up and it got to them in perfect condition.
The lack of anything even close to resembling customer service is appalling and I don't care what you had to say about any of the hardware at all. You could have been ordering a toilet seat and got better service.

That’s a disgrace.
 
uzor said:
The internet is already full of reviews like this that don't cover the rest of the buying experience. I can absolutely see the situation portrayed in the review happening:

I have played a game or two, and want to get a better computer for it. Knowing that something like a Compaq isn't going to be a great gaming PC, I pick up a magazine, say PCGamer. Flipping through the ads in the mag, I see a cool looking full page ad with various system specs and cool pictures. When comparing the systems in the back, the iBuyPower systems seem to be just as "gamery" as the others listed, but are a bit cheaper. Being frugal myself, I fo with the IBP to save some money. I get to the website, and do the best I can with the options I have on a base system in my price range, and what little I know about hardware (but would like to start learning more sometime!). Make my selections, and hit "Purchase"....

You obviously have the knowledge and skill to make up for the faults that Chris et. al. found, so for you, you get a good hardware build at a good cost. My example above, however, does not.

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Good points...........That's why I think two categories might work better. Maybe I just think most [H] readers are a little more technically inclined? I guess I need to get used to the more "consumer" friendly [H]. Not saying it's a bad thing, just different.... ;)

Brent
 
I've always wondered how bad ibuypower was, but shipping the system to the wrong address several times really took the cake. I realize that ymmv when it comes to this company, but I'd rather not take the risk of getting the same experience [H] did, and spend that extra hard earned money on some peace of mind.
 
Zero Absolution said:
I must have caught ibuypower before they got really bad. Lucky me?
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With most places you are lucky or really really unlucky. If you were lucky in buying the PC you were also probably lucky in getting people on the phone who actually cared too.

LOL, some of the answers I've gotten from people who should know better are just unreal. Honestly I am barely an amateur when it comes to technology but I could usually tell when they were just trying to get me off the phone.

I have been tempted to go iBuypower or CyberpowerPC but considering the fact that I am already on my second marriage I doubt I'm lucky enough to afford it in the short or long run.

That is what I like about the reviews here since they include what the reviewers went through when something went wrong.
 
brent_anderson said:
Maybe Dell and the like would be a much better choice for the "consumer" level type of reviews you are doing now at the [H]?. Or possible split them up into two categories, One where you are playing "dumb" and base it on support and the ability of the company to protect you from yourself, and one where you use your knowledge to order correctly and base the review on the gaming value (where ibuypowered shined), just a thought.

And considering they build them for a VERY small amount more than we could do it ourselves by purchasing the parts online they will continue to get our business.
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Think of it this way. Even if you ordered this system as a "gamer" the lack of dvd and cd burning software would have been bad. The case is beat up pretty bad with marks all over it. They got really bad support and could not get them to ship to the right address. All of these issues are universal. Also being a "gamer" does not mean one knows how to fully diag a problem. If you had to send them system back because it was having really bad issues(Ie logic board went out and hosed some other stuff) would you want to be without it for over a month? What about the lack of a power cord? The reviewer should have called them on it to see if they would overnight one for free. I would be pissed if I ordered a system and didn't have a cord(pretend most of us don't have these lying around) and had to go pay 10 to 30 bucks for one in town from a compusa or best buy where they like to assrape you on cables. Also small things like making them pay for shipping to return a "defective" part. Mind you if the problem had not been so easy for most people to see(other then IBP) many "gamers" may not be able to diag it. I look at it this way. Pretty much any company can throw together a system with off the shelf parts and make it work. Baseing a review on just the gaming aspect would not be as good becuase what happens when something does go wrong? It would be like buying a car based only on how fast it goes. Sure this is a great number to brag about but when it comes down to it more points come into play.
 
brent_anderson said:
Good points...........That's why I think two categories might work better. Maybe I just think most [H] readers are a little more technically inclined? I guess I need to get used to the more "consumer" friendly [H]. Not saying it's a bad thing, just different.... ;)

Brent
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I could see that. I've seen the suggestion too that some of the systems be upgraded and tested at that point from an Enthusiast perspective.

For me though, I read the consumer reviews soley for the purpose of recommendations for friends/family/acquaintances who ask me for advice in a buying a computer, and I do forward the reviews to several of them who are currently contemplating buying a system.

Honestly, I've purchased one single pre-built system in the last 8 years for myself, and that was after a big raise at work. I knew what I wanted and I also had no inclination to use the limited tech support that I was forced to purchase, apart from the possibilty of an RMA. I have absolutely no intention of going through an integrator anytime soon for my own box.

At the same time though, I have little desire to put together a system for a friend since I don't want to be the one responsible for troubleshooting if anything goes wrong with it. I have been known to ship parts to friends who know how to work with computers, and have actually considered shipping a fully built system to one or two people, so the bit about being unable to ship properly to a ship to address is of particular note to me.

I love these reviews because they keep me informed of what the integrators are doing so I can make a solid recommendations to others based on thier knowledge level.
 
Chris_Morley said:
Ok, disregard any criticism I had of the PSU. The scores would be the same, across the board.
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One could argue that you should dock them because a crappy power supply limits upgradeability in the future.

Good review. Sad to see another vendor bite the dust.

One day you should try and buy a computer off one of those Ebay stores. I think you will be unpleasantly surprised at the total lack of integrity. :mad:
 
herryoyo said:
I I love these reviews because they keep me informed of what the integrators are doing so I can make a solid recommendations to others based on thier knowledge level.
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I solved that one years ago, "Mom, just buy a Dell and get the on site service warranty" :)

Seriously, I use iBuypower because they configure a system with the components I want for a great price. You pay more for a Dell, Sony, or Gateway BECAUSE of the service, not the great systems. We do have exceptions that offer both, Alieware, Falcon, etc, but look at those prices!

With a builder like iBuypower basically we are buying the parts preassembled and go into it knowing if there is a problem needing an RMA, etc, you are NOT going to get Dell grade support. But that is OK because barring hardware failure, I can fix most of the problems myself.

Ounce again, I think I am just adjusting to the "consumer friendly / average Joe" mentality of these reviews. I mean the system did great in the gaming benches, ran ROCK solid in the stress test, and was delivered without ANY bloat ware preinstalled. That is just the way I want them built for my store.

However, the screwed shipping, damaged case and crap packaging job are so far removed from my experience with them that I want to believe this was a anomaly, not the standard with iBuypower.

Maybe they can try again in a few months and test this theory out? (don’t forget to order the OS though!)

Brent
 
Chris and Kyle (and everyone else who put up with this mess) - great review.

iBuy was actually one of the online computer companies I looked at when I was first considering a "boutique-type" computer as opposed to a large company. Being somewhat computer illiterate, I found their menu and options confusing and daunting. Plus, after doing just a few upgrades, that attractively (base) priced computer was now well over $1,000. And not knowing if the upgrades were needed/necessary/overkill/would cause the new computer to asplode.

You had an experience I could only call horrifying. I sat shaking my head reading what you went through just trying to get it delivered. You had to pay for their shipping mistake? You had to wait over a month for an o/s to be installed? The case looked like that when you finally got it back?!

I would have had thrown a complete and total hissy fit. If I had received that, it would have been returned/refunded ASAP or the BBB and anyone else I needed would have been involved.

I think your reviewing methods - looking at a computer from a consumer standpoint as well as the DIY/enthusiast who can a) build/upgrade their own, b) really understands the inner workings of computers and the testing methods you use and c) has the money for the higher end computers is a very good thing. The average consumer is not going to be running torture tests on their computers for the most part.

I appreciate your reasoning on the PSU being inadequate, notwithstanding that you didn't have any stability problems. It may be fine for what you ordered if you did nothing else. But let's say you did add more drives, a ton of peripherals, etc. and suddenly you have a computer that won't post. For the average non tech-savvy buyer, this is a major problem.

The DVD coming without software is, IMHO, inexcusable. Not for a whole system. Maybe if you'd gotten something barebones to finish building yourself. But people who are buying a complete computer are buying it so they have something to use out of the box. Not something they have to either buy or chase down a compatible freeware software.

The o/s not being included? Well, yes that is something you missed - but so would I. By the time you get to that on the second page of options your eyes are crossing. And it's kind of buried with all the "extra" options.

If I was in Texas near you, I'd be applying for a job on helping to test systems from the truly average user (n00b) standpoint. If you all had this many problems and they made you jump through hoops to get anywhere, I can't even think what someone like me would have done.

Thanks for another great review!
 
Focusing on the two months it took for you to get the computer back, and sorry if this is a dumb question, but it's been nearly ten years since I last bought a computer through a boutique vendor.

During this time, aside from saying 'oh, it'll be ready in a few days', did they try to do anything else to compensate you for lost time (free stuff is always a good way to ease someone's frustration) or was that their mantra that entire time? Also, did you or Tim (the author) look into what it would have taken to cancel your order and get your money back during that time? Had I that kind of experience, I would have wanted to get my money back and go somewhere else, potentially getting in on better stuff for the same price (considering the time it took for the machine to get back, something new may have become available).
 
Never trust a company that sounds like it was named by a 10 year old.
 
i would like to hear what excuses thay have for all this lets see how long it takes for this to get back to them
 
nigel.pinder said:
I`m struggling to see why you were so down on the PSU. It caused you no problems whatsoever for the system you ordered. You can not say it would not be suitable if you had ordered a more powerful system, you didnt order a more powerful system. If you did, maybe a better PSU would have been fitted.

I can understand all the other issues you have, but the PSU WAS `fit for purpose`.

Nige.
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Because the point of these reviews is to cover all of the bases and reveal all the potential issues with a company. That is like wondering why a company gets downgraded severely for shitty customer service when the computer was fully, 100% functional. They won't all be fully 100% functional, and the people using these reviews to decide which company will get their money need to know about the potential pitfalls before they choose. Judging by this review, they would have no problem sending out that POS Raidmax PSU with a 7900GTX SLI system.
 
Considering.. the machine performed well dvd drive not withstanding.. Tech supprt sucked ya but no less intelelgent then the oems you had a few months ago.

complaining about the power supply when it gave u know problems seems petty, considering u never hit dell or compaq or anyone eldse for sending out those weak 250 and 300watt suppluies. If you had ordered a much beefier system that required mroe power u may have gotton a different one but you did not.

I agree the shipping is stupid, the tech is stupid but the machine performed better then most u have had for the price..

i dont know your values seeme overly weighted.

seems some reviews the bad things dont get counted are harsh and in other the good are ignored.

how a computer that runs everything u throw at it with no problems with exception of a dvd drive that was missing a free driver you could have eaily found online.

computer ran well thats does not mean its terrible in my book /shrug

the fact they spoke in a dialect u could understand even if not correct is nice since the over seas techs in your reviews have been just as clueless.

seems you let your anger over shipping make this a few points lower then is logical considering the machines actual performance.

i mean whats the point of your catagorial points system if the end result does not add up.


if all catagory scores are equal this sytem gets a 5.8 when proper math is conducted..
 
if all catagory scores are equal this sytem gets a 5.8 when proper math is conducted..
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Now we know that evoking rage in the customer docks them 3.8 points. ;)
 
dajet24 said:
if all catagory scores are equal this sytem gets a 5.8 when proper math is conducted..
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The category scores are weighted, with tech support being one of the heaviest weights.

brent_anderson said:
I solved that one years ago, "Mom, just buy a Dell and get the on site service warranty" ;)
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Heh heh. :)
Yeah, I have actually recommended some Dell stuff as of late. But I do like to be able to point people towards other options.

Example, I've got a buddy in town here who enjoys gaming, but is a bit incompetent when it comes to parts for full systems. He's capable of removing bloat from a system, but rarely has the time to deal with something like that. His wife also plays, and she is about as far removed from technically skilled as it gets.

For him, the ideal system(s) (since the wife won't accept something that's lesser) are reasonably cheap since he has to buy two, low on bloat (stability issues and the like), and capable of running games decently. His upgrade cycle seems to be around every 2-3 years for a full system, with possibly a video or ram upgrade in between.

I guess I'm just saying it's cool to have some knowledge about the other integrators out there. For the IBUY folks, it sounds like they fulfil a perfect need for you, especially since you're talking about multiple systems at a time, and since you have the technical ability to deal with whatever need arises.

With all the various builders out there, it's nice to actually have a decent review source who has tested these things out. If someone asks, I may actually have a little familiarity from reading the article and reading the related forum thread.
I liken it to when someone asks me about Bose speakers. I have a fairly strong opinion on that particular topic, and it's nice to be able to point out other speaker manufacturers who will be more suited to thier individual needs.
 
Unless I`ve missed it, I find the lack of response from ibuyPower quite telling.

At least some of the other suppliers who have had bad reviews have had the integrity to post on here and try and respond to some of the issues raised.
 
dWhisper said:
Also, that "bug up the ass" you refer to is called the "customer experience." These weren't small little problems, they were functionality issues and obvious process breakdowns with an OEM. They entered into an oral agreement for shipping and processing, and by breaking that, they were legally liable. [H]Consumer could easily file a claim against them through the BBB or with their state attourney general, and get reimbursement for the actions take.
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Too bad [H] caused the bulk of their shipping problems with incompetent ordering. Forgot that eh? They screwed up by ordering the system incorrectly. Also, oral agreements are no legally obligating in most circumstances.

To further your ignorance you throw out the "BBB" as a viable means of grievance resolution. Sorry, at one time they were a good path for some problems but now exist mainly to shield the companies that pay them. State Attorney general? Are you daft? Sorry, small claims court at best, no written contract and its called "best of luck"

Sheesh.
 
nigel.pinder said:
Unless I`ve missed it, I find the lack of response from ibuyPower quite telling.

At least some of the other suppliers who have had bad reviews have had the integrity to post on here and try and respond to some of the issues raised.
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Monarch did worse and they are more well known here. I gave up on Monarch and I had previously ordered nearly a thousand dollars of parts through them across many years.

iBuyPower failed on shipping for a misordered system and suffering from a tech who didn't know his ins and outs about the paticular DvD drive. The system itself ran without a hitch and was exactly what [H] ordered.
 
dajet24 said:
Considering.. the machine performed well dvd drive not withstanding.. Tech supprt sucked ya but no less intelelgent then the oems you had a few months ago.

complaining about the power supply when it gave u know problems seems petty, considering u never hit dell or compaq or anyone eldse for sending out those weak 250 and 300watt suppluies. If you had ordered a much beefier system that required mroe power u may have gotton a different one but you did not.

I agree the shipping is stupid, the tech is stupid but the machine performed better then most u have had for the price..

i dont know your values seeme overly weighted.

seems some reviews the bad things dont get counted are harsh and in other the good are ignored.

how a computer that runs everything u throw at it with no problems with exception of a dvd drive that was missing a free driver you could have eaily found online.

computer ran well thats does not mean its terrible in my book /shrug

the fact they spoke in a dialect u could understand even if not correct is nice since the over seas techs in your reviews have been just as clueless.

seems you let your anger over shipping make this a few points lower then is logical considering the machines actual performance.

i mean whats the point of your catagorial points system if the end result does not add up.


if all catagory scores are equal this sytem gets a 5.8 when proper math is conducted..
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very good points
 
dajet24 said:
Considering.. the machine performed well dvd drive not withstanding.. Tech supprt sucked ya but no less intelelgent then the oems you had a few months ago.

complaining about the power supply when it gave u know problems seems petty, considering u never hit dell or compaq or anyone eldse for sending out those weak 250 and 300watt suppluies. If you had ordered a much beefier system that required mroe power u may have gotton a different one but you did not.

I agree the shipping is stupid, the tech is stupid but the machine performed better then most u have had for the price..

i dont know your values seeme overly weighted.

seems some reviews the bad things dont get counted are harsh and in other the good are ignored.

how a computer that runs everything u throw at it with no problems with exception of a dvd drive that was missing a free driver you could have eaily found online.

computer ran well thats does not mean its terrible in my book /shrug

the fact they spoke in a dialect u could understand even if not correct is nice since the over seas techs in your reviews have been just as clueless.

seems you let your anger over shipping make this a few points lower then is logical considering the machines actual performance.

i mean whats the point of your catagorial points system if the end result does not add up.


if all catagory scores are equal this sytem gets a 5.8 when proper math is conducted..
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You're free to disagree with our scoring. However, we have spent 5,000 words stating why we think that iBUYPOWER is not a place you should be spending your money. If, out of all the other integrators you could possibly buy from, you decide that you want to buy from them or recommend them to friends or family, go for it.

If you have been reading our articles, you'd know this:

"As fast as PC hardware has become over the years, we think giving a personal computer "5 stars" based on how quickly it ran a synthetic benchmark is simply irresponsible. We think service, support, and reliability are much more important factors in today's climate than speed. Fast is easily paid for, but purchasing and ownership satisfaction can be elusive."
 
Shivetya said:
Too bad [H] caused the bulk of their shipping problems with incompetent ordering. Forgot that eh? They screwed up by ordering the system incorrectly. Also, oral agreements are no legally obligating in most circumstances.

To further your ignorance you throw out the "BBB" as a viable means of grievance resolution. Sorry, at one time they were a good path for some problems but now exist mainly to shield the companies that pay them. State Attorney general? Are you daft? Sorry, small claims court at best, no written contract and its called "best of luck"

Sheesh.
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So if you misorder something, and you ask a company to fix it, you are now at their mercy when it comes to the $1,000 you spent? They are free to keep your product for five weeks, lie about shipping dates, ship to the wrong address on three occaisions, and give incompetent technical support? Oh, not to mention ship you a damaged case. Wow, you're much more forgiving than me.
 
gathagan said:
Don't get me wrong; I think the review was accurate, but this one point may be a bit of a red herring.

Since you didn't order the system with components that required a beefier PSU, I don't think you can assume that the same PSU would have been used.
As you stated in the article, the PSU *did* handle the setup you bought.
If you ordered components that were more power-hungry, they may well have installed a beefier POS supply. :D
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That's exactly what I am thinking as well. I have a feeling that the rest of the experience colored your view on the PSU. Fact is that it worked stably for the computer that was ordered - I personally do not think that the mere 'possibility' of it being underpowered should result in a negative mark.

Edit: Just saw Chris' response about the PSU not changing the scores (and everyone else's same exact point). :) Don't be upset about it, but do you see our point?
 
_NARC_ said:
That's exactly what I am thinking as well. I have a feeling that the rest of the experience colored your view on the PSU. Fact is that it worked stably for the computer that was ordered - I personally do not think that the mere 'possibility' of it being underpowered should result in a negative mark.
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Thanks for your thoughts, they are noted.
 
Shivetya said:
Too bad [H] caused the bulk of their shipping problems with incompetent ordering.
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I must have missed how [h] caused their own shipping problems. Most PC companies will ask you these days to confirm your shipping address with the credit card company if it's different from the billin address. in these days of identity theft, such precautions are standard. Of course, most builders do manage to figure out the difference between billing and shipping addresses...

Shivetya said:
To further your ignorance you throw out the "BBB" as a viable means of grievance resolution. Sorry, at one time they were a good path for some problems but now exist mainly to shield the companies that pay them. State Attorney general? Are you daft? Sorry, small claims court at best, no written contract and its called "best of luck"

Sheesh.
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So your solution is what? It's not entirely hopeless out there. But the best thing you can do is read the warranty and terms and conditions of sale before you buy so you know your rights within the contract.

Finally, you seem to ignore the fact that this experience was completely unpleasant and perhaps not unique to [H]. If this had happened to me, I would be pissed - you wouldn't be?
 
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