i7-8700K - better budget cooler than Scythe Mugen 5?

Discussion in 'Overclocking & Cooling' started by RustedAngel, Jun 20, 2019.

  1. RustedAngel

    RustedAngel Limp Gawd

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    I'm currently running an i7-8700K bone stock with an old 212+. For whatever reason I did not feel like replacing the 212 when I built the new system last year, but now I've got the itch. I don't have a drive to overclock, just would like to bring CPU temp down if possible.

    I get the impression from reviews that the Mugen 5 Rev b is a solid performer in temp and noise.
    I like the way it looks
    I like the $45 price point. I think I could spend $60-65 if I felt like I was really going to be getting more.
    I like that it's offset to prevent RAM clearance issues. I don't really need this since my RAM is 34mm tall (Corsair Vengeance LPX), but I might want to swap it for Vengeance Pro RGB at some point(51mm tall).

    Should I consider any other coolers besides the Mugen 5?

    Further background: Last week I ran Prime95 for about 2 hours and saw CPU temp stabilize around 68-69 C, with CPUID hardware monitor reporting max temp at some point of 73 C. Case is a Thermaltake A-71, 2 200mm intake fans, 1 200mm and 1 120mm exhaust. I ran furmark for 3 hours on my new 2080 (EVGA XC Ultra) and reported max temp by hardware monitor was 67 C, so I feel like the case probably flows air pretty well. Weather report said 75 F when I was testing.
     
  2. doyll

    doyll Kyle's Thermocouple is HOT

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    Scythe Mugen 5 is a very good cooler, espeically for it's size. There are a few others similar in price and performance .. even a few that are better. But prices and availability vary depending on location. Thermalright Macho 140mm fan line (ARO-M14G/M14O for AM4, Macho Rev. A, & Macho Rev. B) are very good and also offset back for RAM clearance. TRUE Spirit 140 Power has even better performance for about same price but taller and wider at 171mm tall and 155mm wide has 6x 8mm heatpipes and cools as good or better than any air cooler on the market. I can give you even more choices, but would like to know where on Earth you are first so I can compare prices. ;)

    In my experience 200mm fans are pretty much worthless. Best way to op;)timize case airflow is to monitor airflow temp into CPU cooler and into GPU cooler and compare it to room air temp. Easy and low cost way to do this is with a low-cost wired remote sensor digital thermometer or a simple remote terrarium / fridge thermometer from cheap shop of e-bay like below.
    5464e11e-6dfb-431d-8cb5-0b2b88229684_zpsec54bc38.jpg

    I twist and tape about 8" piece of stiff insulated wire from remote sensor back and put an all plastic cloths pin on it so I can bend wire with closths pin clipped onto something so sensor is about 1" in front of middle of cooler fan. Then run system at full load and watch the temps to see how much warmer the air going into cooler is than room air.j

    Once you know how much warmer air temp into coolers is than room after running stress test / high load for 10+ minutes you will have some idea of how if component temps are higher than need be. A well setup case airflow will result in air temps into coolers being 3c or less above room air temp with both CPU and GPU at 100% load.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
  3. RustedAngel

    RustedAngel Limp Gawd

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    My case only supports max CPU cooler height of 160mm, so the Thermalright Macho and True Spirit 140 are both out because of height.

    I'm located in Washington state, USA.

    Thanks for the tip about measuring air temp in case. I'll keep an eye out for an inexpensive wired thermometer.
     
  4. doyll

    doyll Kyle's Thermocouple is HOT

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    Thermometer from China with free shipping for less than a fiver. ;)
    Usually arrive in less than 2 weeks.
     
  5. chameleoneel

    chameleoneel 2[H]4U

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    The Mugen 5 is tough to beat for the price.

    T
    There are some better heatsinks for 120mm fans. But not significantly better. But the Mugen 5 is priced well And the Scythe stock fan is quite good. Pushes air really well and sounds fine even at full speed. No need to upgrade the fan. But you could sacrifice noise level for a much faster fan, and probably net a fairly decent gain in performance. For example, the Reeven Justice performs a bit better. But its fan is faster.

    I have a Mugen 5 and I like it a lot. It offers good performance, even with quiet fans. and the offset design adds a lot of flexibility for how you configure your setup. I actually use Noiseblocker fans and can hardly hear them at full speed, even with my case open. But, they are also $20...

    However, if your max temp in Prime 95 is only 73c, you are doing just fine. I wouldn't bother upgrading your heatsink. Prime95 is actually unrealistic for heat. You'll never get close to that as an average temp, through gaming. Handbrake is a more realistic test, because its a workload people actually do. Even that will be lower than your Prime95 temps.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2019
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  6. RustedAngel

    RustedAngel Limp Gawd

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    I went and bought a Fuma 2 and am very happy with it. I don't think this was a need to buy, I just had the itch. I was surprised how much quieter the Fuma 2 is, and also observed 12-13C lower temps in Prime 95. Also I had zero RAM clearance issues.
    zYa77O9yt0biJ2HwfaQz512ugoW5Sfx8gzc5KRE5DpeQIHiWjTBKFfsMCasnrr3z5UIAGawWjZT1DCvinM=w1280-h720-no.jpg
    NFQHuGu0_Ci4Tfe5pmQxekW5xinnzxDEcJPwn9bcP_RULHO290E-1cdFUcSBc1l62OsuJqC3GmjIPfPo_w=w695-h1235-no.jpg

    I tested the 212+ right before installing this cooler, to try to keep most variables as close as possible. One variable that changed was 212+ was installed with Arctic Silver AS 5 thermal compound, with the Fuma 2 I used Gelid GC Extreme that came in the same shipment. House temperature was 68 F.

    With the 212+ I observed 32-34 C at idle, 71-73C in Prime 95 blend, and 79-82 C in Prime 95 small FFT test. With the Fuma 2 I observed 32-34 C at idle, 58-61 C Prime 95 Blend, and 68-69 C in Prime 95 small FFT.

    System: i7-8700K (stock settings), Asus Z370A prime motherboard, Chaser A71 case, EVGA RTX 2080 XC Ultra, 2 x 8GB Corsair LPX 3000 MHz ram, M.2 970 EVO SSD and one 4TB storage drive.

    Pros:
    - Extremely quiet, especially under full load. Fan is audible at 100% RPM, but I can only hear it if I turn down my case fans.
    - Reduced temps 12 C in Prime 95, both Blend and Small FFT tests vs prior cooler (Hyper 212+, circa 2011!)
    - I think it looks really cool
    - I have no RAM clearance issues
    - 155mm height means it can fit in a wide variety of cases. My case has 160mm max which eliminates many of the larger 140mm coolers
    - Fluid Dynamic fan bearings should be more quiet and last longer

    Cons:
    - Costs $15 more than Fuma Rev b did, however availability on that model is limited now. A few days ago I saw sellers still had the Fuma Rev b for $46 shipped, today though it's $65 shipped. The Fuma Rev b also uses sleeve bearing fans.
    - Installing the middle fan is indeed a little tricky, especially installing with mobo still in the case as I did. I found it helped if I gently pulled the fan clips away from the cooling tower while lowering the fan.
    - In my excitement I initially installed the center fan backwards :confused:. I was initially disappointed that temps did not improve at all and thankfully decided to double check my install work.
     
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  7. chameleoneel

    chameleoneel 2[H]4U

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    the Fuma is really nice.


    Where did you see the specs on the fan bearings? The fans for the Mugen rev B. are Kaze Flex, which have fluid dynamic bearings. The fans for the Fuma are Slipstream fans, which have dual ball bearing.

    And both Amazon and Newegg have the Mugen 5 rev. b available at ~ $45
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2019
  8. doyll

    doyll Kyle's Thermocouple is HOT

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    'Fluid dynamic bearing' are just sleeve bearings. All the 'fluid dynamic' means is there is oil between shaft and bearing sleeve .. this lubrication layer between shaft and bearing is in all fans, even ball bearing fans have oil in them.

    Industry advertising just calls it 'fluid dynamic' to make it sound better. :D
     
  9. chameleoneel

    chameleoneel 2[H]4U

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    Are you confusing yourself?

    In the pros you said fluid dynamic bearings are good

    and in the cons you said the fuma uses sleave bearings

    but no you are saying they are the same thing?

    what?
     
  10. RustedAngel

    RustedAngel Limp Gawd

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    To be honest, I wanted the Fuma 2 over the Mugen rev. b because I like the way it looks. I like the dual tower look and it has matte black top fins instead of polished metal. I was willing to pay $15 extra (33%) more for these features, which is unlike me, but I'm happy with what I got.

    I was the one who listed fluid dynamic bearings as a pro. I must have read a short article that said "fluid dynamic bearing better than sleeve bearing".
    Newegg has the Slipstream fan on the Fuma rev. b as a sleeve bearing:
    https://www.newegg.com/p/13C-0004-00074?Description=scythe%20fuma&cm_re=scythe_fuma-_-13C-0004-00074-_-Producthttps://www.newegg.com/p/13C-0004-0...&cm_re=scythe_fuma-_-13C-0004-00074-_-Product
    Scythe EU's website says the same thing:
    http://www.scythe-eu.com/en/products/cpu-cooler/fuma-revb.html
     
  11. doyll

    doyll Kyle's Thermocouple is HOT

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    Actually it was RustedAngel who said 'fluid dynamic bearing' was a pro.

    There are only 3 basic kinds of bearing commonly used in computer fans. This is a very, very few meganetic levitation bearing fans on the market .. meaning all the rest are variations off the s: 1/ sleeve bearings or 2/ ball beasrings.

    Below is quote of my post to clarify what I actually said:
    I did not include magnetic levitation bearings because they are vary rare. Corsair ML is only consumer fan I know of with ML bearing.


    Fuma is a very nice cooler. It cools very well, is not too big and is good quality.

    Advertising market uses all kinds of slogans, descriptions and sayings to hype up sales. 'Fluid Dynamic Bearing' is one of them. Fact is any fan with a decent quality bearing will probably last way longer than any of use will be using it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2019
  12. chameleoneel

    chameleoneel 2[H]4U

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  13. Vengance_01

    Vengance_01 [H]ardness Supreme

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    I would go with the Fuma 2. Damn why did not I not see that when I ordered my Scythe Mugen rev B.
     
  14. Team_Slow

    Team_Slow n00b

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    I own a Hyper 212+ as well. A few months back I decided to play around with over clocking on this PC. I looked around at other air coolers and then eventually decided to just purchase another PWM fan and slap it on the back side of the 212+. Push/Pull. So far its worked extremely well.
    If you'd like to keep things on the cheap side, this might be a good solution for you.

    Oh, nevermind. I see you already purchased a new cooler. I hope it works well for you. And it DOES look pretty sweet.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019 at 4:31 PM
  15. JRZoid

    JRZoid [H]Lite

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    if you can the find the fuma or whatever noctua like one etc...but the mugen 5 should do it man and be ok...it holds the the delidded 7700k at 5ghz even just fine. really about one of the best man..can get for like 50 bucks man...
     
  16. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

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    It looks like Scythe doesn't distribute in Canada (shipping across borders sucks) which is too bad, since they have some nice heatsinks.
     
  17. freeagentt

    freeagentt n00b

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    No problem shipping across borders.. at least with Amazon. My Le Grand Macho RT was here in about 5 days I think.. I think that came from Florida. I got my True Spirt 140 Power with TY-143 in about 22 hours from their Dallas warehouse to Winnipeg Canada. It was crazy. I did pay for the fast shipping though. Both are awesome coolers. I like how compact that Scythe, that's a tiny build. Its literally 3 apples tall, and blue.. :D
     
  18. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Burned once too often, so I will stick with what is available here.

    Amazon.ca carries the Noctua lineup for fair pricing and free shipping, which makes them a better deal than ordering Scythe Ninja or Grand Macho from the USA.

    I have my eye on D15S, for good overall compatibility and quite decent performance.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019 at 8:36 AM
  19. doyll

    doyll Kyle's Thermocouple is HOT

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    I agree Le Grand Macho RT and TRUE Spirit 140 Power w/ TY-143 are the very best coolers on the market. TS140P is best price to performance and LGM RT is quietest with best performance, de-throning NH-D15.
     
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  20. freeagentt

    freeagentt n00b

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    You betcha buddy. I've had a D14 and I wasn't really that impressed with it. It is good no doubt about that.. but I sold it because of how much space it took up, the inconvenience.. and with its stock fans I didn't really see a gain from the Ultra120 Extreme that I was running with dual 120x38 Panaflos previously. And my mobo ran hotter because I couldn't move the air that I did before. I ended up just selling it to a friend. These two Thermalright coolers put it to shame, add the TY-143 and its a hands down smack down for certain. They say the D14 is a bit better than the D15 right? heh.
     
  21. doyll

    doyll Kyle's Thermocouple is HOT

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    Testing both D14 and D15 with same fans gave D14 at most 1c better temps .. barely enough to say it was better. TRUE Spirit 140 Power at 1200rpm was 2.9c cooler than D14 at same speed, and at 2500rpm it was 1.9 cooler than D14 with same fan. With 2x fans it was about 2c better still. The difference between 2x TY-143 @ 1200rpm vs 2500rpm was about9.3c on TSP140P and 8.2c on D14. Obviously 2500rpm was also much louder and required similar speed/airflow case fans.