I was a snap away from buying the new MBP... butttt

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Kassem

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
Messages
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I recently sold my 13" unibody macbook. I was planning on buying a 15" i5 new MBP however now I've gone a month without a laptop and its really got me thinking.

For the last month I had my macbook I found myself using windows 7 on it just as much as OSX. I really do like OSX but I don't use it enough for it to be necessary for me. The newest version of ubuntu is just ultra sexy as well. Anyways, I've got this pile of money here burning a hole in my pocket and since I have NEVER owned a windows based laptop I don't even know where to start.

I can't do 13" laptops anymore. I look like a circus bear trying to use a calculator.
15" is the absolute maximum I can handle, so it has to be > 13 > 15.

I'd like it to have atleast an i5 processor but i7 is nice.

I want to be able to play games, lots of starcraft 2, diablo 3 when it releases, and older windows games. It doesnt have to be a "gaming laptop" but starcraft 2 is really easy to run.

Battery life is really important to me. It doesn't have to be 9-10 hours like the new MBP but it has to be decent.

I like how thin the MBP's are. This is important to me. Weight isnt as important as bulkiness/thickness. I also like the simplistic look but I'm not goin to be too concerned with aesthetics.

I can't think of anything else right now :D
I had money set aside for the MBP so i guess my budget is around 1500-1600 right now.

THANKS [H]
 
http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/s...ation.do?destination=review&config_id=4755793


If you want to save about 100 bucks you can go with the lower res screen, as it is I configured it with the 1080p screen.


gave you the extra slice battery for longer battery life. It's pretty dense and heavy, but not bulky, it will just lift the entire notebook up a bit, but will provide mbp level battery life, maybe a bit less, but in the same ballpark.


+++ envy 15
+higher res display options
+VASTLY superior discreet graphics (5830 is just slightly less powerful than an nvidia 260/360, but supports dx11 - if you bother to up clock the memory on it you can get nice performance boosts as well, coupled with the power it uses vs the nvidia options, it is superior to the 260/360 as a whole)
+cheaper for the hardware you get
+similar style to mbp if you care about that form factor


- envy15
less battery life than a mbp with no slice
with slice battery similar battery life but couple pounds heavier (if this is an issue, hit the gym, seriously)


for general computing plus gaming, the envy is one of the best out there if you want something slimmer and with the option for respectable battery life (only with the slice add on) You can go with an i7 quad, but doing so will add much more to the price, and really cut into battery life.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unpbOjp-beE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJKhQGmvdxI

The above, especially the latter is what you will gain by jumping to the windows world for similar money on a pc notebook. Step away from the dark side!
 
I've had such... bad.... experiences with HP. How are they these days?
 
Also, how much different is that than the new MBP?

That extra battery thing is straight ugly but if i can just keep it in my backpack and add it on when needed I wouldn't mind it at all.

Also, MBP comes with 1 year warranty and I can extend that to 3 years any time during that year. What type of warranty do HP's come with?
 
Kassem said:
Also, how much different is that than the new MBP?

That extra battery thing is straight ugly but if i can just keep it in my backpack and add it on when needed I wouldn't mind it at all.

Also, MBP comes with 1 year warranty and I can extend that to 3 years any time during that year. What type of warranty do HP's come with?
Click to expand...

1 year warranty is standard with almost any hardware manufacturer, and you can always get longer warranties, check the site for more info.


As for the battery being ugly, not sure what to tell you. It is not a lump, it is literally a flat slice attached to the bottom. I cannot think of another form factor for an added battery that is more streamlined and less obtrusive.

http://www.notebooks.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/HP-Envy-15-13.jpg


I don't see the ugly, it just raises the notebook up, but over doubles the battery life.


Incidentally, there seems to be a 200 dollar coupon on the envy now as well. Not bad, makes it even more of a steal for the form factor.
 
oh the picture it showed on the site was different. Thats not really bad at all, i'm gonna look at some more pictures.

Still though, the price isnt TOO different from the mbp. How do the video cards compare? I assume the 5 series is pretty nice on these HP's, and I heard the 330m's on the mbp's are downclocked.

Also, why no internal optical drive?
 
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5830 is much faster than the 330m, but it all depends on what games you play and how long you plan to keep this laptop.
 
Hm.. I just can't justify not getting the MBP over the envy when its a clear knock-off that doesn't have the same features ;/

The only thing better about it is the video card. To make it equal I have to add another half inch to the bottom (and still not get the battery life of the MBP) and an external optical drive. Unimpressed.
 
Kassem said:
oh the picture it showed on the site was different. Thats not really bad at all, i'm gonna look at some more pictures.

Still though, the price isnt TOO different from the mbp. How do the video cards compare? I assume the 5 series is pretty nice on these HP's, and I heard the 330m's on the mbp's are downclocked.

Also, why no internal optical drive?
Click to expand...

actually, with this coupon, it is even better, in fact a steal.

http://blog.laptopmag.com/deal-of-the-day-save-200-on-an-hp-envy-15
 
Kassem said:
Hm.. I just can't justify not getting the MBP over the envy when its a clear knock-off that doesn't have the same features ;/

The only thing better about it is the video card. To make it equal I have to add another half inch to the bottom (and still not get the battery life of the MBP) and an external optical drive. Unimpressed.
Click to expand...

Better =
video card
resolution (up to 1080p)
the OPTION for a quadcore i7 (none on the mbps as even they can't give stellar battery life with them)

usb 3.0 (only on the i7 quad models)
expandable to 16 GB of memory (on the i7 quad models - special motherboard with FOUR ram slots not two like most notebooks)

hdmi out

for the money, you get more power, even without the coupon. It is not a contest unless you are looking primarily for battery life above all else, then the mbp wins, or if you cannot live without osx. But for less money and maybe a 1/3 of an inch to the thickness, with the extra battery, you can get much more power, with much more screen resolution.

I know which side of the fence I would fall on.
 
I hear that the trackpad isnt as functional and smooth as the apple counterpart.

The nicer video card is just that, nicer, and very enticing.

The battery life is weaker, even when I make the laptop thicker.

No optical drive inside, which isnt a huge deal, but still.

HDMI out is nice.

Upgradeable to 16gb but does that even work? Whats the max that windows can use? Or 32-bit applications for that matter.

USB 3.0 is awesome. I dont have any devices that use it but its awesome nonetheless.

The extra resolution is nice... hm.

The coupon makes it pretty damn awesome. We'll see.


Quick question: If you could get the MBP with 25% off or the semi-equivalent Envy with the 200$ off coupon, which would it be?
 
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Why wouldn't 16GB RAM work? If you run many, many applications at the same time or want to run a small RAMDisk then 16GB is definitely worth it. What exactly do you do with your computer?
 
450 said:
Why wouldn't 16GB RAM work? If you run many, many applications at the same time or want to run a small RAMDisk then 16GB is definitely worth it. What exactly do you do with your computer?
Click to expand...

I use 4 right now, but I could see using more. I dont know about 16 though.

Gaming, multiple tabbed browser sessions, IM client.
 
I don't think you need to bother with 16GB. 4GB is more than enough for you.

What games do you play? Was the older MBP doing okay for your gaming needs? At this point I think you shoulld just get the MBP since it seems like thats what you want. Remember, with the MBP you at least have the option of using OS X, with the HP you have no official/supported way to get it on.
 
Kassem said:
The nicer video card is just that, nicer, and very enticing.
Click to expand...

Do remember that nice video and long battery life are counter indicated. Nice video needs many of the transistors which need many of the watts to drive them.

For best results make sure to get a laptop that is switchable with the integrated Intel graphics when you don't need the dedicated. However regardless, if you want battery you need lower power dedicated. Note that the highest a MBP offers is a GT 330M, which is a low-mid range card, with only 256MB of RAM (memory takes power too).

Upgradeable to 16gb but does that even work? Whats the max that windows can use? Or 32-bit applications for that matter.
Click to expand...

The memory limits in Windows depends on versions. If you are running 32-bit Windows it is 3.something GB. The .something depends on what hardware yo have that uses memory mapped IO. Generally 3.2-3.5. For 64 bit Windows 7 limits are as follows:

Home Premium: 16GB
Professional/Ultimate: 192GB

These are limits set by MS, and could be changed if they wanted. The current actual architecture limit is 2TB of physical RAM, which is supported in Server 2008R2. All versions support 8TB max of virtual memory currently.

A 32-bit app running on 64-bit Windows will have a maximum of 2 or 4GB depending on if it is large address aware or not. All 32-bit apps are given their own 32-bit (4GB) address space and thus can use in theory up to 4GB. Non LAA apps will use only 2GB max.

64-bit apps on 64-bit Windows are limited only by the total memory the system will allocate to them.

Do remember that more RAM uses more power and shortens battery life. How much I'm not sure, but anything that adds transistors subtracts battery.

Quick question: If you could get the MBP with 25% off or the semi-equivalent Envy with the 200$ off coupon, which would it be?
Click to expand...

I personally wouldn't get an MBP because I've no use for OS-X and you can get better technology for the money if you don't go with Apple. Also I like trackpads with 2 mouse buttons.

You may wish to look at Sony and Dell. For Dell, look at their Studio line. They may be to your liking.

For graphics cards, look at this list. You want to shop in the Class 2 card range, probably somewhat towards the lower end. Class 1 cards will run your games better but hit the battery hard. Class 3 or lower cards may not be enough.

In general I'd look at a system with a Radeon 5000 series as they are pretty efficient. However I don't know if those will switch with Intel graphics, you may need an nVidia card for that. In that case, make sure to get one of their 40nm cards. You get more processing power for less power usage with that. Sony should have some laptops along those lines.

If you decide that you are willing to trade off battery life to get a more powerful notebook, have a look at MSI. I elected to get a GX640 since I want a gaming laptop and battery is not that important.

Just remember you can't have both. Deck out a system with a high end mobility card, a quad core, and tons of RAM and your battery life will be low.
 
Kassem said:
I hear that the trackpad isnt as functional and smooth as the apple counterpart.

The nicer video card is just that, nicer, and very enticing.

The battery life is weaker, even when I make the laptop thicker.

No optical drive inside, which isnt a huge deal, but still.

HDMI out is nice.

Upgradeable to 16gb but does that even work? Whats the max that windows can use? Or 32-bit applications for that matter.

USB 3.0 is awesome. I dont have any devices that use it but its awesome nonetheless.

The extra resolution is nice... hm.

The coupon makes it pretty damn awesome. We'll see.


Quick question: If you could get the MBP with 25% off or the semi-equivalent Envy with the 200$ off coupon, which would it be?
Click to expand...

I'd go with the envy for a couple reasons.


1st, I have never gotten into the mac craze. I have an inherent bias towards pcs. This is not a rational or logical argument or feeling, any more than the throngs of people who lept on the ipad before any reviews were done, just because it was made by apple and that was enough based off past experiences with apple products. I am completely and utterly unaffected by the apple halo effect, in fact I am one of the rarer people that gets the opposite reaction it produces in many of its fans. It just turns me off. Not rational, but part of my internal aesthetic baggage.

2nd, I play computer games. More graphics power is always more useful to me.


couple negatives on the envy that might bother you though and you need to know.

-The power adapter is reportedly fairly large relative to the size of the notebook.
-the i7 quad runs pretty hot and the battery life will not be good
-the ONLY version of the envy 15 that have usb 3.0 are the quad versions.
-the ONLY versions of the envy 15 that have 4 rams slots (as opposed to the standard 2) are the quad versions
-if you go with the 1080p screen option, games will be harder to drive at that resolution. Now the 5830 is so much more powerful than the 330 from nvidia that it will still perform much better even at the higher resolution, but if you want to play the latest and greatest with all the candy turned on, the standard resolution should net that performance for a couple years for many games.


The version of the envy that would be best suited for you would be one of the i5 versions due to longer battery life. Performance should still be great, but you will get the standard 2 memory slots instead of four, and will not have a usb 3.0 port. Screen resolution is entirely up to you, I'd probably just go with the 1080p even if games were harder to drive than the standard resolution, but the standard resolution would net longer practical use since it could drive games today and the future with higher settings.
 
ok thanks guys, i'm going to keep looking. Starting with the recommendations from sycraft.
 
I ordered an Envy 15 a month ago but the only reason why was due to the $450 coupon, + I got $95 BCB (still pending, might go through), plus another 10% off because my order was delayed. I'm down to nearly $800 for this beast!
 
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