I want my X-Fi Prelude's Crystalizer feature. Is this available with modern CL sound cards?

[Delicieuxz]

I'm building a new PC, and wondering whether to move on from the Auzentech X-Fi Prelude that I've been using. But I don't think I can live without the Crystalizer feature in the Creative Labs software suite. I have it enabled and turned up just little bit, and it makes a big, pleasing difference to the sound.

I think the Prelude uses an AGP slot, so I'd need to use an AGP to PCIe adapter to continue using it with a new system. But is it possible to use the old Creative Labs control panel software with any sound device, or is the Crystalizer feature / a clone of it available as generic software, or as part of the software for any of Creative's current sound cards?

 

[GotNoRice]

The Auzentech X-Fi Prelude uses a PCI slot, not an AGP slot. AGP was used for video, PCI was a predecessor to PCIe used for general-purpose cards.

Your best bet would be to just get an X-Fi Titanium. It's a PCIe version of the X-Fi, and has the Crystalizer as part of the software suite. They can be found cheap: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=sb0880&_sop=15&rt=nc&LH_BIN=1

The DAC on the regular X-Fi Titanium is probably not as good as the one in the Auzentech X-Fi Prelude, but it's not terrible. You have the option to run digital output from the X-Fi titanium to an external DAC (This is what I'm doing right now on my main gaming PC), which still gives you access to all of the features on the X-Fi. There is also a higher-end version called the X-Fi Titanium HD that has a great DAC built-in, but it's more expensive. The cards still work great even with Windows 11.

 

[Delicieuxz]

The Auzentech X-Fi Prelude uses a PCI slot, not an AGP slot. AGP was used for video, PCI was a predecessor to PCIe used for general-purpose cards.

Your best bet would be to just get an X-Fi Titanium. It's a PCIe version of the X-Fi, and has the Crystalizer as part of the software suite. They can be found cheap: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=sb0880&_sop=15&rt=nc&LH_BIN=1

The DAC on the regular X-Fi Titanium is probably not as good as the one in the Auzentech X-Fi Prelude, but it's not terrible. You have the option to run digital output from the X-Fi titanium to an external DAC (This is what I'm doing right now on my main gaming PC), which still gives you access to all of the features on the X-Fi. There is also a higher-end version called the X-Fi Titanium HD that has a great DAC built-in, but it's more expensive. The cards still work great even with Windows 11.

I contacted Creative Labs support and was told that Crystalizer is a feature in software for their current sound card lineup.

"The Crystalizer is available in SB Command. This is the software application for the AE-5 series i.e. AE-9, AE-7, and AE-5 Plus, and Z series sound cards i.e. Z, Z SE."

That makes me happy, as I've been clinging to my Prelude and its software suite (which looks like it's the same one as the X-Fi Titanium) for dear life, lol. I need to look into things, but, now, I guess a current card might be the best option. Maybe the current cards don't suffer what I assume to be a buffer overrun issue that my Prelude does, which is that when I have too many audio sources at once (like many hundreds of browser tabs, many of which could have sound), opening a new sound source risks causing the sound to seize up in a series of sputters. And if I don't close that sound source quick enough, the sound will stay choked for a long while, even after I close the last sound source, and then suddenly explode in a violent cacophony of backlogged sounds being vomited out in a garbled mess. If the current cards don't do that, and sound at least as good as the Prelude, I'll be eager to get one.


BTW, check out the Crysis font used in SB Command.


It looks like Crystalizer is in the Audigy card software suite, too.

 

[GotNoRice]

I guess a current card might be the best option. Maybe the current cards don't suffer what I assume to be a buffer overrun issue that my Prelude does, which is that when I have too many audio sources at once (like many hundreds of browser tabs, many of which could have sound), opening a new sound source risks causing the sound to seize up in a series of sputters. And if I don't close that sound source quick enough, the sound will stay choked for a long while, even after I close the last sound source, and then suddenly explode in a violent cacophony of backlogged sounds being vomited out in a garbled mess.

Well that's good that you have options. My main reason that I've stuck with the X-Fi is that I still think that CMSS-3D surround sound works better than the current offerings (SBX). It also seems silly to pay $130-200+ for a card when I can do the same or better with a $25 card. With the extra that you save, you could also get an external DAC, which is really where the improvement has been in audio over the last decade or more. The inside of a gaming computer is a very electrically noisy environment and a terrible place for a DAC to be located, regardless of it's specs.

I use X-Fi cards on all my computers, including PCI models on my older computers, and I don't ever recall having the issue that you describe. I don't usually have hundreds of browser tabs open, usually only about 30, but that's usually in addition to a half-dozen VMs, a game in the background, and streaming music or watching a movie on a 2nd monitor. The X-Fi series has always been flawless for me. I wonder if the auzentech X-Fi Prelude uses the same drivers as the X-Fi Titanium?

 

[Delicieuxz]

It also seems silly to pay $130-200+ for a card when I can do the same or better with a $25 card. With the extra that you save, you could also get an external DAC, which is really where the improvement has been in audio over the last decade or more. The inside of a gaming computer is a very electrically noisy environment and a terrible place for a DAC to be located, regardless of it's specs.

I use X-Fi cards on all my computers, including PCI models on my older computers, and I don't ever recall having the issue that you describe. I don't usually have hundreds of browser tabs open, usually only about 30, but that's usually in addition to a half-dozen VMs, a game in the background, and streaming music or watching a movie on a 2nd monitor. The X-Fi series has always been flawless for me. I wonder if the auzentech X-Fi Prelude uses the same drivers as the X-Fi Titanium?

I think the garbled sound vomit I mentioned has to do with over-filling a buffer or something. I likely have hundreds of YouTube tabs open, alone.

And I think the X-Fi cards generally use the same driver package, the one Daniel K was nice enough to update over the years. The software suite for the Titanium is the same as the Prelude's.

One concern I still have about buying a newer CL sound card is that of how I would attach my music production gear to it. The Prelude has coaxial SPDIF in, and I use that to connect an API A2D, and I also run additional preamps through the inputs on that, bypassing the preamps but making use of the units A/D converters. Do you have a recommendation for that situation? Only the AE-9 ($350 US) even has an SPDIF in, and it's optical, not coaxial.

https://us.creative.com/p/sound-blaster?filters=1137

 

[GotNoRice]

I think the X-Fi cards generally use the same driver package, the one Daniel K was nice enough to update over the years. The software suite for the Titanium is the same as the Prelude's.

Ah, I've just been using the latest drivers from the creative site.

One concern I still have about buying a newer CL sound card is that of how I would attach my music production gear to it. The Prelude has coaxial SPDIF in, and I use that to connect an API A2D, and I also run additional preamps through the inputs on that, bypassing the preamps but making use of the units A/D converters. Do you have a recommendation for that situation? Only the AE-9 ($350 US) even has an SPDIF in, and it's optical, not coaxial.

I've used converters like these without any issue: https://www.amazon.com/Optical-Converter-Bi-Directional-Repeater-Splitter/dp/B09HKJH28W

Right now I use one of those converters so that I can run the Optical output on the X-Fi Titanium in my backup computer into the Coax input on my external DAC.

As far as digital input, the X-Fi Titanium does have optical input also if you end up going with the cheap option.

 

[Delicieuxz]

Ah, I've just been using the latest drivers from the creative site.



I've used converters like these without any issue: https://www.amazon.com/Optical-Converter-Bi-Directional-Repeater-Splitter/dp/B09HKJH28W

Right now I use one of those converters so that I can run the Optical output on the X-Fi Titanium in my backup computer into the Coax input on my external DAC.

As far as digital input, the X-Fi Titanium does have optical input also if you end up going with the cheap option.

You can download Daniel's updated X-Fi driver packages from his blog site: https://danielkawakami.blogspot.com/

 

[Zepher]

I have it with my SoundBlaster ZxR as well,

 

[Delicieuxz]

Ah, I've just been using the latest drivers from the creative site.



I've used converters like these without any issue: https://www.amazon.com/Optical-Converter-Bi-Directional-Repeater-Splitter/dp/B09HKJH28W

Right now I use one of those converters so that I can run the Optical output on the X-Fi Titanium in my backup computer into the Coax input on my external DAC.

As far as digital input, the X-Fi Titanium does have optical input also if you end up going with the cheap option.

A converter like that into a SB Z SE (which can be bought used for cheap) seems like it might be the best solution for me. My goal is to use outboard preamps and AD converters, and then getting the already-digitized signal into my PC, so I can work with it in a DAW. I assume that internal PC noise isn't a problem, when the audio signal is digitized before reaching the PC.

BTW, do you know if latency is higher with an external USB sound card than with an internal one?

 

[GotNoRice]

A converter like that into a SB Z SE (which can be bought used for cheap) seems like it might be the best solution for me.

The two series of cards that came out after the X-Fi series were very unimpressive (With the exception of the ZxR). First came the Recon3D series which was panned heavily for reduction in features and taking a lot of things that were previously done via dedicated hardware on the X-Fi and doing them in software via their "Sound Core 3D" chip. They claimed it was an improvement but it was obvious that the driving factor was reduction in cost on their end. After that came the Z series which still uses the same Sound Core 3D chip and was mainly a rebranding effort on Creative's part to try to get rid of the bad reputation. It worked to some extent mainly because the top-end ZxR card came with a very nice DAC, but the lower-end cards in the lineup were still very unimpressive. The Z SE can probably do the Crystalizer so it should be a fine card for that purpose, but if it were me, I'd still go with the X-Fi.

My goal is to use outboard preamps and AD converters, and then getting the already-digitized signal into my PC, so I can work with it in a DAW. I assume that internal PC noise isn't a problem, when the audio signal is digitized before reaching the PC.

You have it kind of backwards. The noise is potentially introduced where the Digital to Analog conversion (DAC) occurs, as that is literally where the final analog signal that you hear is generated. Where the digital signal comes from (either generated by the computer itself or from an external source via the Digital Input) is irrelevant and not part of the equation. If you're still planning to use the DAC on the card to produce analog output, then there is still potential for noise. Also, there is nothing special about the DAC on the Z SE.

BTW, do you know if latency is higher with an external USB sound card than with an internal one?

Latency should not be noticeably higher. However, the best use of an external DAC in terms of isolation from a noisy PC is to connect it to the PC via optical digital. That is because electrical noise cannot physically transfer over an optical cable. Even with an external DAC, it's still possible to get noise from your computer if you are using Coax Digital or USB. Using USB would also essentially bypass your internal Sound Card, meaning that you would have to get an external creative solution in order to get things like Crystalizer. There are a LOT of much better external DACs out there (compared to a creative "external sound card") since that has been a rapidly expanding market for over a decade now. I truly believe that a cheaper creative card (internal), running Optical Digital to an audiophile-quality External DAC is the best solution as you get all of the features you need, you get guaranteed isolation from noise, and you get a (potentially) very high-end DAC to ultimately generate the analog signal that you hear. Many external DACs also have multiple inputs, so that you could potentially run some of your equipment directly into the DAC if it doesn't need to go though the PC.

 

[Delicieuxz]

The two series of cards that came out after the X-Fi series were very unimpressive (With the exception of the ZxR). First came the Recon3D series which was panned heavily for reduction in features and taking a lot of things that were previously done via dedicated hardware on the X-Fi and doing them in software via their "Sound Core 3D" chip. They claimed it was an improvement but it was obvious that the driving factor was reduction in cost on their end. After that came the Z series which still uses the same Sound Core 3D chip and was mainly a rebranding effort on Creative's part to try to get rid of the bad reputation. It worked to some extent mainly because the top-end ZxR card came with a very nice DAC, but the lower-end cards in the lineup were still very unimpressive. The Z SE can probably do the Crystalizer so it should be a fine card for that purpose, but if it were me, I'd still go with the X-Fi.



You have it kind of backwards. The noise is potentially introduced where the Digital to Analog conversion (DAC) occurs, as that is literally where the final analog signal that you hear is generated. Where the digital signal comes from (either generated by the computer itself or from an external source via the Digital Input) is irrelevant and not part of the equation. If you're still planning to use the DAC on the card to produce analog output, then there is still potential for noise. Also, there is nothing special about the DAC on the Z SE.



Latency should not be noticeably higher. However, the best use of an external DAC in terms of isolation from a noisy PC is to connect it to the PC via optical digital. That is because electrical noise cannot physically transfer over an optical cable. Even with an external DAC, it's still possible to get noise from your computer if you are using Coax Digital or USB. Using USB would also essentially bypass your internal Sound Card, meaning that you would have to get an external creative solution in order to get things like Crystalizer. There are a LOT of much better external DACs out there (compared to a creative "external sound card") since that has been a rapidly expanding market for over a decade now. I truly believe that a cheaper creative card (internal), running Optical Digital to an audiophile-quality External DAC is the best solution as you get all of the features you need, you get guaranteed isolation from noise, and you get a (potentially) very high-end DAC to ultimately generate the analog signal that you hear. Many external DACs also have multiple inputs, so that you could potentially run some of your equipment directly into the DAC if it doesn't need to go though the PC.

Great info, thanks.

Regarding the potential of noise in the signal, my main concern is getting a recorded sound without interference from the PC case. If the signal is digitized before it enters the PC, I guess the sound file I record should be free of added PC noise. But in playback, I suppose noise could be added by the internal sound card DAC, though that noise won't be in the actual recording.

What external DAC might you recommend?

 

[GotNoRice]

What external DAC might you recommend?

Personally I'm fond of the Tubemagic D2 DAC, because it has swappable OpAmps as well as as a Vacuum tube to color the output to your preference (It has two outputs, one that does not use the tube, so you can always compare). But DACs are a huge market that extends very far beyond computers at this point. There are so many DACs (and opinions about each DAC) that you really have to go based on preference. Thankfully DACs are a pretty mature technology at this point so there aren't many "bad" external DACs, just different DACs.

Alternatively, you can even use things like an AV receiver as a DAC+headphone amp. You can find really nice ~10 year old Pioneer Elite receivers on places like Craigslist that sold for $2000+ when they were new, now being sold for $100 just because they don't support the latest version of HDMI, Dolby Atmos, or whatever - none of which matters if you are just using 2-channel and an optical input.

 

[Legendary Gamer]

Well that's good that you have options. My main reason that I've stuck with the X-Fi is that I still think that CMSS-3D surround sound works better than the current offerings (SBX). It also seems silly to pay $130-200+ for a card when I can do the same or better with a $25 card. With the extra that you save, you could also get an external DAC, which is really where the improvement has been in audio over the last decade or more. The inside of a gaming computer is a very electrically noisy environment and a terrible place for a DAC to be located, regardless of it's specs.

I use X-Fi cards on all my computers, including PCI models on my older computers, and I don't ever recall having the issue that you describe. I don't usually have hundreds of browser tabs open, usually only about 30, but that's usually in addition to a half-dozen VMs, a game in the background, and streaming music or watching a movie on a 2nd monitor. The X-Fi series has always been flawless for me. I wonder if the auzentech X-Fi Prelude uses the same drivers as the X-Fi Titanium?

I'm curious about the X-Fi stuff. I, too, use these on all my PC's. I'm mostly using external USB versions of the X-Fi but I had been running into increasing instances of audio glitches in nearly everything. Happening on all my X-Fi parts. All that disappeared when I moved to the GC7 on my main rig. IIRC Creative dropped support for the X-Fi lineup entirely, (allegedly they still support my X-Fi Pro USB 5.1 but having issues with both and drivers haven't been updated since 2020) so updated drivers are gonna be impossible to find.

The X-Fi series has been my go to for everything for years. You have a secret line on better drivers?

 

[GotNoRice]

The X-Fi series has been my go to for everything for years. You have a secret line on better drivers?

I don't think that the PCI/PCIe X-Fi cards and the USB versions share much other than the name and maybe some software features.

 

[Delicieuxz]

I'm curious about the X-Fi stuff. I, too, use these on all my PC's. I'm mostly using external USB versions of the X-Fi but I had been running into increasing instances of audio glitches in nearly everything. Happening on all my X-Fi parts. All that disappeared when I moved to the GC7 on my main rig. IIRC Creative dropped support for the X-Fi lineup entirely, (allegedly they still support my X-Fi Pro USB 5.1 but having issues with both and drivers haven't been updated since 2020) so updated drivers are gonna be impossible to find.

The X-Fi series has been my go to for everything for years. You have a secret line on better drivers?

Have you tried the Daniel K driver? The last one was released August 8, 2021.

https://danielkawakami.blogspot.com/

 

[Delicieuxz]

The two series of cards that came out after the X-Fi series were very unimpressive (With the exception of the ZxR). First came the Recon3D series which was panned heavily for reduction in features and taking a lot of things that were previously done via dedicated hardware on the X-Fi and doing them in software via their "Sound Core 3D" chip. They claimed it was an improvement but it was obvious that the driving factor was reduction in cost on their end. After that came the Z series which still uses the same Sound Core 3D chip and was mainly a rebranding effort on Creative's part to try to get rid of the bad reputation. It worked to some extent mainly because the top-end ZxR card came with a very nice DAC, but the lower-end cards in the lineup were still very unimpressive. The Z SE can probably do the Crystalizer so it should be a fine card for that purpose, but if it were me, I'd still go with the X-Fi.

I picked up a Titanium HD for my new system. My speaker system connects via 3.5mm. Do you have insight into whether it would be better for me to run the speakers' 3.5mm connector into the headphone-out port on the HD, or to run the 3.5mm connector through a 3.5 -> stereo RCA adapter, and then use the RCA-in ports on the HD?

I also got a PDF of the Titanium HD manual from CL support. Their website download links weren't working. Download here, if anybody wants it.

 

[GotNoRice]

I picked up a Titanium HD for my new system. My speaker system connects via 3.5mm. Do you have insight into whether it would be better for me to run the speakers' 3.5mm connector into the headphone-out port on the HD, or to run the 3.5mm connector through a 3.5 -> stereo RCA adapter

Assuming that your speakers are powered, then you should absolutely use the RCA outputs on the card. The RCA outputs on the card are what uses the good DAC on the card. However, the RCA outputs only output a line-level signal (not amplified) and thus are not suitable for powering headphones, unpowered speakers, etc. The 3.5mm output is mainly intended as a secondary option for people who need to power their headphones (or unpowered speakers) directly using the card. It uses a different (worse) DAC than the RCA outputs, but does provide amplified output.