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I need help building a new computer.

T

Taskism

Weaksauce
Joined
Jan 26, 2005
Messages
71
Sup people?
My computer died on me, I been using a crappy pentium 3 server computer for internet access and email and waht not, so I havnt been able to keep up with gaming, but I miss it! Its time for me to get back into it, and I need your help! I havnt been paying attention to computer technology in 2 years, not since I built my last computer.
SLI?? PCI-E? Some new things have shown up, and along with that, I have no idea what kinda video cards are what now days.

What I need:
Something that will play all the current games at a high frame rate, around 100gig of HDD space, 1 gig of ram, high end video card, good processor, good sound, basically the works. The price has to be below $3,000.00. I know its a lot to waste on a computer when its gonna be outdated in a year or two, but thats my problem, thats not what I need help with. So, if anyone here has any ideas on a good system, please help me out! Below are the two directiosn I want to go with.

1.
I have a Pentium 4 3.75ghz socket 775 processor sitting on my desk right now, using this would be good, and I have about 2 gig of DDR2 ram sitting here too, so going this rout would save money for other parts, id like to use this, but its not a necessity.

2
Start fresh. An AMD Athlon 64 FX-53 processor and Id like to get something that supports SLI and DDR2.

I think I covered everything. So if anyone has any ideas, pelase share.
Thanks

Task.
 
You can go with SLI and be future proof.

Sell ur P4.

Get a nice PCI-E video card or dualies

Or look in the FS/FT section and buy a pre built gaming computer.

Or check out my sig, I might be selling mine soon.
 
I would go with option 1 and buy me a nice Intel 925x chipset board.

Then I would try to find a good PCI-E video card, but the top end ones are tough to find at a decent price. Perhaps a 6800GT for now?

As for SLI, I would not bother right now, since as stated in the HardOCP article, it only supports 15 games as of right now. Its going to mature as PCI-E has a long road ahead of it. I would give some time and possibly think about getting it in the next upgrade.
 
MaMMa said:
You can go with SLI and be future proof.
Click to expand...

I disagree - SLI has issues that need to be resolved (lack of driver implementation, can't use both cards' memory, random slowness, overpriced motherboards, incompatibility with some games' code). Good idea in theory, but in practice it needs work.

At the moment, PCI-E shows no advantage over AGP - no single card out today really benefits from the extra bandwidth. Also, socket 939 has almost no advantages over socket 754 boards right now. It will be the wave of the future when dual cores and DDR2 come to AMD systems, but that won't be for another year, and the current A64 CPU's aren't starved for bandwidth, so the dual-channel controller doesn't really lead to a performance increase. The one thing that can be said for the new socket 939's is that the 90nm parts overclock very nicely. That said, the socket 754's are no slouches either, and the mobo's cost less.

Taskism, the processor and memory you already have are nice, but probably more expensive than you need. You definitely don't need 2 gigs of memory, and probably won't see any real-world benefit over just 1 gig. If I were in the market for a whole new system, I'd get this system from the for sale/for trade section and replace the video card with a 6800GT for $375. That is a whole system for $1K, and a good one at that. You could sell those Intel parts and the 9700 included in the system, and come out dead even or even with some extra money.

That said, here are the individual parts I would get if buying it in pieces:

Socket754 motherboard, something like this one - EP-8KDA3J - $77
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-123-219&depa=0

3200+ Athlon64 - $172
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-103-487&depa=0

1GB of memory with TCCD chips and the BrainPower PCB (do a google search) - $225
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-220-033&depa=0

250GB Maxtor Maxline Plus - $125
http://www.techforless.com/cgi-bin/tech4less/7Y250P0
7200rpm, 8mb. Huge.

nVidia 6800GT 256mb graphics card - $377
http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=190144&AFFIL=pg&NR=1

2.1 Speakers - $20
http://www.buy.com/prod/Altec_Lansi...m_20_Watts/q/loc/101/10322733.html?dcaid=1688
Cheap, but good sound and hard bass.

8x Optorite DVD-/+RW drive - $52
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?DEPA=0&description=27-182-029

CPU Cooler + Arctic Silver Alumina - $18
http://svc.com/pa9c-38cual.html
http://svc.com/aral17syr.html

The case, keyboard, mouse, and monitor are all your preference, though the MX Duo is my personal favorite for input devices.

-SEAL
 
I think you'd be daft to go socket 754 when you have a big budget for newer hardware. The price difference is going to be marginal in any case over 939 and stops you getting the fastest CPUs. Also ignore the problems with SLI - you can make yourself SLI ready, without having to commit. If you really want to go all-out, I'm sure you could get the following core components:

AMD FX-55 (socket 939)
ASUS SLI motherboard (they have a few variations)
1 GB RAM
One 6800GT or 6800Ultra PCI-e graphics card
74Gb Western Digital Raptor for boot and games
200Gb 7200k SATA drive for storage
PCP&C SLI PSU (not available in UK, but everyone raves on about them)

So, with the FX-55 you have the fastest processor you can buy. The SLI motherboard may well be overpriced, but in the scheme of things it's not a huge chunk of your budget. You get a single 6800GT or 6800Ultra and fit it in the motherboard. When the early problems with SLI are ironed out (I'm confident they will be - nVidia seems to be in this for keeps), you drop in another GT or Ultra and get 60-80% extra performance.

EDIT - the PSU I mentioned will last several upgrades, so don't think it'll be useless in a year and if you get a smart case (Lian-Li have good write-ups) that will also be something to be proud of long term and isn't money lost.
 
With 3 grand the sky's the limit. I'd suggest water, because once you go with air, all you'll want is water. I just got done putting mine together and the liquid lust has hit me hard. I might just do it yet. . .
 
Taskism said:
1.
I have a Pentium 4 3.75ghz socket 775 processor sitting on my desk right now, using this would be good, and I have about 2 gig of DDR2 ram sitting here too, so going this rout would save money for other parts, id like to use this, but its not a necessity.
Click to expand...

Just FYI People, going AMD is really not that smart when he has this already!
 
I would suggest waiting for the nForce 5 motherboards. They will be the Intel SLi motherboards. Get one of those, stick your 775 CPU in it, and get a SINGLE GeForce 6800GT (PCIe). A gig of Corsair PC3200 (or PC4000 if you are overclocking) should do just fine. One 74GB Western Digital Raptor should be good for your games and OS, then get a second (250GB) drive for storage. Then, like the above guy said, get another 6800GT for SLi mode after the wrinkles are ironed out. Lian-Li cases are good. For a Power Supply, get the PC Power and Cooling Turbo-Cool 510 SLi, it must be the SLi model since that one has hookups for 2 PCIe video cards. Pioneer makes good DVD burners, and go Logitech for your keyboard mouse.

Now I guess the only issue is your monitor. Do you need a new one? If so, do you want a CRT or an LCD? CRTs are better for gaming, but LCDs take up less space. LCDs can also do games, but gaming-quality LCDs can get pricy. Your call.

Here's my dream machine.
 
mulpsmebeauty said:
I think you'd be daft to go socket 754 when you have a big budget for newer hardware. The price difference is going to be marginal in any case over 939 and stops you getting the fastest CPUs. Also ignore the problems with SLI - you can make yourself SLI ready, without having to commit. If you really want to go all-out, I'm sure you could get the following core components:

...

So, with the FX-55 you have the fastest processor you can buy. The SLI motherboard may well be overpriced, but in the scheme of things it's not a huge chunk of your budget. You get a single 6800GT or 6800Ultra and fit it in the motherboard. When the early problems with SLI are ironed out (I'm confident they will be - nVidia seems to be in this for keeps), you drop in another GT or Ultra and get 60-80% extra performance.

EDIT - the PSU I mentioned will last several upgrades, so don't think it'll be useless in a year and if you get a smart case (Lian-Li have good write-ups) that will also be something to be proud of long term and isn't money lost.
Click to expand...

Socket 939 won't have a noticeable advantage over s754 until dual-core, and AMD themselves say that "gaming will be best served with a maximum frequency, single core solution until 2006." (source - http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2303) By next year, there will be new mobos with new chipsets, more features, etc. Point being - he'll want a new processor and a new mobo by then. Given that socket 754 is cheaper now, and he'll be upgrading then, and that there's no real difference between then two now performance-wise, why not go cheaper? And another thing - he said he wanted good framerates for high-res gaming, and he can get that with an overclocked socket 754 and an overclocked 6800gt (or x800pro, for that matter). Given the 5% increase of the Ultra, the extra $100 would be best spent elsewhere or later.

I agree on the 74K Raptor - maybe even two of them in RAID 0. Also, go for that PSU or one like it - a good PSU is the best investment you can make when building a computer.

There are more issues with SLI than just lack of support in the drivers (though there is that - each new game needs a driver update to enable SLI support) - it's that, in some (and maybe lots) of the games out, the actual game code will not run correctly on SLI. Given that, in Kyle's words, "another more than a pair of 6600GT's in SLI (which gives roughly the same performance as a single 6800gt) is probably overkill," I say that a single-GPU solution is and will be just fine until at least 2006, which will be the ideal time to spend the money he saves now on a dual-core, possibly dual-GPU solution.

I'm not saying that the FX-55 and SLI wouldn't be faster - just that that stuff wouldn't equate to a real-world difference in his gaming experience, and that it would be best-spent down the line.

-SEAL
 
UltimaParadox said:
Just FYI People, going AMD is really not that smart when he has this already!
Click to expand...

That stuff is as good as money, and will sell very fast for a good price in the FS/FT section. AMD makes sense from the price/performance standpoint, and is the better choice for gaming systems at the moment.

-SEAL
 
I dont need a monitor, I have a 21 inch Trinitron now, dont wanna go flatscreen at the moment, dont want ghosting and the like.

I didnt even think about the power connectors on the power supply for SLI.
I read about SLI mobos for intel procs coming out sometime next month from Gigabyte, but I dont know about first generation stuff like that, dont wanan get stuck with something full of bugs and wahtnot, so Im thinkin maybe stickin with 1 videocard would be best for now.

How much would this processor be worth if I were to try to sell it you think? If I can get a little bit out of it, It might be workable to do that and go with AMD.
 
Taskism said:
How much would this processor be worth if I were to try to sell it you think? If I can get a little bit out of it, It might be workable to do that and go with AMD.
Click to expand...

Well, Intel doesn't make a 3.75GHz processor, so I assume it's overclocked... what speed is it originally? That will determine the price it can fetch. Also, you'd have to sell the DDR2 to go AMD, as Athlon64 doesn't support DDR2 yet. You should expect to get around $350 for the 2 gigs of DDR2, based on current prices, and maybe more depending on brand, speed, latencies, etc. You might not recoup all the money, but certainly most of it.

-SEAL
 
Maybe its 3.70 then running at 3.75, its not retail, its straight from Intel.
 
I just checked, it is 3.75, its not retail though, its from the lab at intel, it was taken from a batch of 3.75ghz engeneering samples, theyre just not sold retail yet. It has 2 meg of cache too.
 
Keep. That. Processor. It is an engineer model, meaning it has NO locks on the multiplier. Slap some good cooling on that processor, and the sky is the limit on overclockability.
 
Ok guys, I think Ive got it all nailed down, Im posting here so anyone who has lots of knowledge on this kinda thing can veryify that this is a good setup, and everything is compatible. This is what I got:

Motherboard:
- ASUS "P5AD2 Premium" 925X Chipset
$235.00

CPU:
- Intel pentium 4, 3.75ghz, 2meg Cache Socket 775
Already Have This.

Ram:
-2 gig of DDR2 Ram
Already have this as well.

Hard Drives:
-One Western Digital Raptor 74GB 10,000RPM SATA Hard Drive for games and OS.
$153.00
-A 100gig drive I already have for storage.

Monitor:
-21 inch Sony Trinitron
Already have this too.

Speakers:
- CREATIVE GigaWorks S750 7.1 Speaker
$418.00

Soundcard:
-Audigy 2 ZS Platinum Pro
$215

Videocard:
- nVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra Video Card, 256MB GDDR3, 256-bit, Dual DVI/TV-Out, PCI-E
$639.00

PSU:
- Thermaltake Silent PurePower 680W Power Supply
$169.99

Optical Drives:
- Sony Internal 16X DVD+/-RW / Double Layer Drive Black
$64.00
-An 8x DVD drive I already have.

Keyboard
-Memorex 120-Key MX3300 Multimedia Office Keyboard
Already have this.

Mouse:
-Logitech® MX™510 Performance Optical Mouse
$49.99

Case:
-Cooler Master ST ATX/BTX STC-T01-UW
$152.00

Thermal Controler
- Thermaltake "Hardcano 12"
$64.49
Click to expand...

Total $2160.47

Leaves me with some extra cash too incase I forgot anything.
 
Use this PSU:
http://www.pcpowerandcooling.com/products/power_supplies/highperformance/turbocools/510/index.htm

Just in case you need convincing:
http://www.pcpowerandcooling.com/pdf/Turbo-Cool_510_vs.pdf

Thermal controllers suck hard. I had to install one for a friend once, and not only was it a PITA, all the wires and such cluttered up the case and drove his temps to like 68C idle. Bad idea.

If you want surround, don't get 7.1. All games use 5.1, so you are wasting your money. Get a nice set of Klipsch ProMedia 5.1 Ultras, or maybe the high-end Logitech 5.1s (cant remember the name).

I guess the KB is all up to your taste, and good choice of mouse.

Other than that, it looks good man!

EDIT: I dunno if you are overclocking or not, but that processor would make an incredible overclocker. Make sure you get some AS5 and at very least an Arctic-Cooling Freezer 7. I would water-cool it and OC the hell outta' it, but that's just me.

EDIT 2: Or, get a nice VapoChill. Check the Case Modding Gallery for some ideas:
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=859342
I think they can get your CPU down to like -50C if I'm not mistaken.
 
sac_tagg said:
Use this PSU:
http://www.pcpowerandcooling.com/products/power_supplies/highperformance/turbocools/510/index.htm

Just in case you need convincing:
http://www.pcpowerandcooling.com/pdf/Turbo-Cool_510_vs.pdf

Thermal controllers suck hard. I had to install one for a friend once, and not only was it a PITA, all the wires and such cluttered up the case and drove his temps to like 68C idle. Bad idea.

If you want surround, don't get 7.1. All games use 5.1, so you are wasting your money. Get a nice set of Klipsch ProMedia 5.1 Ultras, or maybe the high-end Logitech 5.1s (cant remember the name).

I guess the KB is all up to your taste, and good choice of mouse.

Other than that, it looks good man!

EDIT: I dunno if you are overclocking or not, but that processor would make an incredible overclocker. Make sure you get some AS5 and at very least an Arctic-Cooling Freezer 7. I would water-cool it and OC the hell outta' it, but that's just me.

EDIT 2: Or, get a nice VapoChill. Check the Case Modding Gallery for some ideas:
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=859342
I think they can get your CPU down to like -50C if I'm not mistaken.
Click to expand...


ahahah the keyboard is gay, I admit, but its a nice color, and theres nothin wrong with it so im not gonna replace it. Watercooling,t hats somethign I can spend the rest of the money on, imma check out your links dude, thanks for the suggestion on the speakers.
 
For your cooling, unless you're just really uncomfortable with it, you should get into watercooling. The cheapest watercooling will be better than the best air cooling, and only cost a little more. Given that you're ready to put the money down, that's one thing I would definitely get.

Before deciding on a PSU, I would definitely give this post a read. This guy knows what he's talking about, and has been researching power supplies for years. This is the first sticky in the PSU subforum, and there's a reason why. Personally, this would be my choice - it's a very good PSU, and the author singles it out as such.

The setup you outlined will last you a year or two, but it really is overkill for today's games. You could spread the money out over 5 years and have no noticeable difference in your gaming experience. If anything, upgrading using that money would give you a better overall experience. It's your money, and you can do what you want, but that's not how I would spend it.

I would look really closely at the differences between a $400 6800GT versus a $650 6800Ultra and ask yourself if it's worth it. Then I would look at whether you need all that CPU power for what you're going to be doing (gaming). For gaming, I just don't see the need for more than an Athlon 64 at 2.5GHz, which is an easy goal for a 3200+ 90nm s939, which costs a lot less. Going AMD also cuts the cost of the motheboard by $150. Also, 2 gigs of RAM will bring you only a marginal difference over a single gig.

These suggestions would save you over $1,000, and that would definitely cover the cost of a dual-core processor and graphics card upgrade a year from now. I might be wrong about my suggestions, but if I were you I'd do more research and get more opinions before dropping 2.5K. I'd do lots of google searches and ask specific questions on the forums.

-SEAL
 
SEALTeamSix, I already have the processor sitting on my desk along with the RAM, so its not costing me anything at all. Thats not an issue. As far as having to upgade in the future, Im well aware of that, I have x amount of money available to kill now, and will have more int he future, Im not strapped for cash so the cost aint an issue. Im gonna check out the power supply you linked to as well.
Watercooling is something im gonna find out about, I know nothing about it, but you gotta start somewhere right? So I Think im gonna give that a shot as well. You have any good links to anyplace thats good for a starter on that?

Thanks for your help dude.
 
Taskism said:
SEALTeamSix, I already have the processor sitting on my desk along with the RAM, so its not costing me anything at all. Thats not an issue. As far as having to upgade in the future, Im well aware of that, I have x amount of money available to kill now, and will have more int he future, Im not strapped for cash so the cost aint an issue. Im gonna check out the power supply you linked to as well.
Watercooling is something im gonna find out about, I know nothing about it, but you gotta start somewhere right? So I Think im gonna give that a shot as well. You have any good links to anyplace thats good for a starter on that?

Thanks for your help dude.
Click to expand...

If you've don't mind paying, then I say go for it - your computer will absolutely fly. About the power supply, the Fortron I recommended is top-notch and will do everything you need it to. However, just FYI, if you're looking to spend a load of money on the absolute best/most powerful power supply made by mortal hands, this $315, 700W monster is the one to get.

Also, I would recommend the x800xt-pe over the 6800 Ultra - for the money, they are better.

Intro to watercooling? I'd start here:
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=759705

Also, just browse this sub-forum for a while:
http://hardforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=91

I'll post my own personal suggestions later, but there's a good place to start.

-SEAL
 
Okay, for watercooling:

Swiftech 6002 CPU block w/ LGA775 mounting hardware - $50.00
DD Maze 4 GPU block - $40.00 (assuming your going to WC your graphics card)
Via Aqua 1200 Pump - $20.00
1 foam pad to put the pump on (dampens any vibration) - $5
1977 bonneville heater core, pre-painted and pre-threaded from a good guy named 2Fresh - $37.00
2X 120mm fans of your choice 2 X ~$7.00, depending on your choice
7 to 10 feet clearflex tubing - ~$1.25 per foot
Aprox 10 steel clamps - $.50 ea
1 bottle of additive ( HydrX, Zerex, or some other anti-corrosive agent) - $10

Total cost - ~$190, give or take. This system will last you a long time, give you much better performance than air cooling, be much quieter, and allow you to overclock higher. Given that cost isn't a big factor, this is what I would get.

However, if you don't want to take the time to order all the parts, there are some good kits out there too. For instance, here is a good kit. If I got this kit, I would replace the CPU block with the Swiftech 6002 block I mentioned earlier, replace the hose barbs on the included bloack with elbowed barbs (these are also called "90-degree" barbs), and use that to cool the GPU. The Masterkleer tubing included in the kit is good, by the way - I would still go ahead and drop some additive in the system, just for heck of it. The total cost of this would be around $120 or so, and would give great performance as well.

How do you fill a system with water if it doesn't have a reservoir? Jonsey explains it for us:
Jonsey said:
I didn't use a res or t-line at all. I put my stuff together in the case, so that the lines were the right size and in the correct orientation. Then I took the whole system out of the case, still connected. I disconnected the line between the rad and the pump. Then I put the rad on the floor and held the rest of the system above it. I filled it with fluid until the rad was full. Then my wife held her finger over the open rad line while I filled the rest of the system. I shook the system around some to get the air to the top, and then put the line back on the rad. I had one tiny air bubble. I might get a resevoir yet, but this was an easy way not to have to mess with one.
Click to expand...

-SEAL
 
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