I Need Best AGP

D

drew_3258

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Jan 13, 2007
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I am in the market for a new AGP card for my old machine. Due to the low prices, the pricetag doesn't matter. I am looking for the best AGP card out there.

Which AGP Card do you think is the best available?

Is a 512mb card with 128 bit ddr3 better than a card
with 256mb memory and 256 bit ddr?

Please help. Thanks! :D

________________________
specs update :

amd fx-51
sk8v
1 gb ecc registered
________________________

also plan to get another gb of memory, possibly turn this into a HTPC , just want to be able to play games for a while until I build a duel pci-e system

- thanks for all of your help!
________________________
 
avoid 128 bit memory. and quantity isn't everything either. :p

if you insist on the best then what you want is an x1950pro. what's the rest of your specs?
 
Another request for specs, without them, we can't give any advice as to which card is best for your system.

That said, the 7600gs/gt cards are great bang for the buck cards, and typically suitable for most AGP based machines.
 
I am in the same boat. I have a p4 2.53 and a gig of ram and I am leaning towards the 7600gt. I dont think the x1950pro would be much better as I would be highly CPU limited with it. My 6800gt is getting a little long in the tooth and I dont really need a whole PC upgrade but would like a little more juice to work with.
 
greyt_Autumn said:
You'll be cpu bound for sure..
Click to expand...

not necessarily. i'm pulling 10381 in 05 with my agp rig. and there are plenty of people running these agp cards with overclocked s939 setups too. the funniest i've seen though is someone running one of these agp cards on a conroe rig with one of those asrock dual vsta combo things. what a waste. :D

Blauman said:
I am in the same boat. I have a p4 2.53 and a gig of ram and I am leaning towards the 7600gt. I dont think the x1950pro would be much better as I would be highly CPU limited with it. My 6800gt is getting a little long in the tooth and I dont really need a whole PC upgrade but would like a little more juice to work with.
Click to expand...

i don't think the 7600gt will offer much of an improvement over your 6800gt. sure it's a little faster but i don't think you'll be getting much bang for your buck at all. and i agree with you about the x1950pro. avoid that as it will be seriously cpu limited like you say.

i can only suggest you start saving for the inevitable whole new rig upgrade.... :eek:
 
marc2003 said:
i can only suggest you start saving for the inevitable whole new rig upgrade.... :eek:
Click to expand...

See, this is the problem with these type of threads. The whole "buy a whole new rig" advice is fine, but the bottom line is this. The op specifically asked what the best AGP card is, not "should I buy a new machine??". Therefore that type of advice is useless to the op, and on top of everything else, we haven't even seen his specs yet. There are AGP machines that can squeeze alot out of an X1950, and maybe the op is just such a person.

And, the performance difference between a 6600gt and a 7600gt is rather impressive. Is it going to run Crysis? Nope, but it will run alot of todays games rather well.
 
digital_exhaust said:
The op specifically asked what the best AGP card is, not "should I buy a new machine??".
Click to expand...

you've lost me. i wasn't replying to the OP when i suggested a new machine. like you say, we still have no specs to work with yet. :)

and i really don't think a 6800gt>7600gt upgrade is worth it especially on a p4 2.53ghz. i used to run an xp2500@2.2ghz (faster than a p4 2.53ghz. agreed?) and even that horribly bottlenecked the 6800gt i had at the time. so the 7600gt is going to fare even worse i think. and even if we take the p4 out of the equation, i still don't think the 6800gt>7600gt is worth it anyway. imho of couse. :D
 
sk8v
amd fx-51 940 pin
1 gb ecc registered
psu 420w ( i think) vantec stealth
old school i know...thanks for all of your timely responses!
 
with those specs i'd definitely go for the x1950pro. look out for the HIS models as they have one of the best coolers and are also factory overclocked. avoid visiontek and gecube as these don't even have temp sensors on board. as for 256mb vs 512mb, go for the best you can afford. if money is no problem, grab the 512mb card for sure.

one important spec you've missed is your psu though. it needs to be a quality unit to power one of these cards. and also another gig of ram wouldn't go amiss with that setup if it can be had cheaply enough. :)
 
with regards to the ram, make sure it is only two 1 gig sticks. you will suffer horrible instability placing more than 3 sticks in a system. and putting 3 sticks in will slow your overal ram throughput and speed. not a good idea.

I would get the 512mb video card, reviews have shown that if your ram sits at roughly 1 gig then this will help with rendering. if however you have 2 gig of system ram then the 256mb version will do. tho for obilivion i would get the 512mb video card.
 
drew_3258 said:
as far as memory goes - I currently have 512X2, so what about 2 more? pros/cons ? duel channel? heat? speed?

also I found a link to this HIS card...looks like my best option so far..comments?
http://www.hisdigital.com/html/product_ov.php?id=276&view=yes
check out the cooler on that puppy

thankyou my friends
Click to expand...


what ever you do dont use more than 2 sticks of ram if you want dual channel ddr. basically if you ram is running at say 200mhz (400ddr) and you dump 1 extra stick (or 2) it will drop down to 166 (333ddr) your ram through put will drop from 5.8G/s to 3.6 (give or take) and the power used will go up and themps of the cpu (or northbridge) will climb according, system response will fall. so no dropping more in is bad. your system will also become unstable and have random crashes. buy the 2 gig (two 1 gig sticks) and sell what you have or use it in a server or htpc or another computer. also you will note that games will load faster and close quicker, windows will be more responive and overall system use will be more pleasant with 2gig of ram (less hdd page file use). you will be glad and happy with 2 gig. i have 2 gig now and any computer i buy or laptop will have no less than 2 gig of ram (it is like the difference of night and day.).
 
as for the video card, well hmm the question you have to ask yourself is ..

how long am i going to keep this rig for?

If your answer is another 2 years then the x1650 agp card is a waste of dollars. get the x1950 agp version instead. Put it this way i bought my x850xt pe edition video card when they just came out and i am still using it today. i am going to wait till next year to get a new one, basically i am going to wait 2 gen into dx10 before getting one. reason well $$ for one and well i want a c2d system or quad core preferablly first.. :)
 
like I said the price does not matter, I want the best card. I am going to keep this system for as long as it runs. so which is it the x1950 or x1650??

Yea I am waiting for vista, dx10 and quadcore to settle in to build a new system. Although it is tempting with the low prices to build a new duo core intel system.

thanks
 
that was a mistake, ok x1950 pro is the best but which version? I've seen a diamond one, powercolor, his...ect ect...they hard to find, I need the one with the best possible specs...
 
i think power color is the one that makes the X1950 pro go for that one its got a improved HSF and it a good card, find it on newegg
 
Easykill1978 said:
what ever you do dont use more than 2 sticks of ram if you want dual channel ddr. basically if you ram is running at say 200mhz (400ddr) and you dump 1 extra stick (or 2) it will drop down to 166 (333ddr) your ram through put will drop from 5.8G/s to 3.6 (give or take) and the power used will go up and themps of the cpu (or northbridge) will climb according, system response will fall. so no dropping more in is bad. your system will also become unstable and have random crashes. buy the 2 gig (two 1 gig sticks) and sell what you have or use it in a server or htpc or another computer. also you will note that games will load faster and close quicker, windows will be more responive and overall system use will be more pleasant with 2gig of ram (less hdd page file use). you will be glad and happy with 2 gig. i have 2 gig now and any computer i buy or laptop will have no less than 2 gig of ram (it is like the difference of night and day.).
Click to expand...
Ihave 4 x 512MB TCCD modules running with no problems. PC3200 o/clocked @ PC3888 so I could keep stock voltages with CPU & DDR. Operating perfectly Dual Channel.

I agree that 2MB gives massive improvement to XP performance. Check out various forums to see if there any issues with your board running 4 modules DDR. There are some boards and DDR that don't mix well.

I'm using the HIS which stays lovely and cool but would probably go for the Powercolor 'cos they also offer good Artic cooling solution and looks better price and value.
 
cozumel said:
Ihave 4 x 512MB TCCD modules running with no problems. PC3200 o/clocked @ PC3888 so I could keep stock voltages with CPU & DDR. Operating perfectly Dual Channel.
Click to expand...

ah, you're missing the point here. that fx51 has an integrated memory controller and cannot cope with with 4 sticks of ram at ddr400. a common affliction for all old a64s. i think the newer cores such as venice and san diego are ok but the OPs chip certainly isn't. with more than 2 sticks, it will have to run the ram at ddr333 speeds as mentioned by easy. it's not such a bad thing though. a64s cope admirably with being run on a divider and the extra ram will more than offset the few percentage points of performance lost by running @ ddr333. :)
 
marc2003 said:
ah, you're missing the point here. that fx51 has an integrated memory controller and cannot cope with with 4 sticks of ram at ddr400. a common affliction for all old a64s. i think the newer cores such as venice and san diego are ok but the OPs chip certainly isn't. with more than 2 sticks, it will have to run the ram at ddr333 speeds as mentioned by easy. it's not such a bad thing though. a64s cope admirably with being run on a divider and the extra ram will more than offset the few percentage points of performance lost by running @ ddr333. :)
Click to expand...

I have done what you said and i noticed a difference as my ram throughput fell by 2gig/s (sysoft sandra test amongst others). I have the 2 venice core for 939 (agp and pci-e boards) and i tried 4 sticks then and it work 90% of the time but sluggish. so i went and got 2 single 1 gb sticks for both and never looked backn. it is now sitting as my htpc and file server (good old samba). perfomance wise get the 2 1gig sticks, your running an fx51 and well you want the most performance out of it..

also intels do as well, they slow down to the next common speed. for example, 4 1gig sticks of ddr800 ram in an intel rig will slow down to 667, unless of course you use ecc ram and the board can handle ecc ram. but the overhead of ecc ram is simply not worth it when it comes to games etc.
 
Easykill1978 said:
(sysoft sandra test amongst others)
Click to expand...

ah well that's those crappy synthetic benchmarks for you. of course it shows poor performance when you're not running your ram 1:1. but back in the world the difference would have been negligible. :p

cozumel was right above. old school intel setups can run 4x512mb of ram no problem. infact i'm doing so right now with the ocz in my sig. it's running at stock most of the time but i can clock it past 250 1:1 if i need to. i have no clue about the ddr2 you mention. i know less than nothing about that stuff..... :eek:

oops this thread is a little off topic now. apologies to the OP. :D
 
marc2003 said:
ah, you're missing the point here. that fx51 has an integrated memory controller and cannot cope with with 4 sticks of ram at ddr400. a common affliction for all old a64s. i think the newer cores such as venice and san diego are ok but the OPs chip certainly isn't. with more than 2 sticks, it will have to run the ram at ddr333 speeds as mentioned by easy. it's not such a bad thing though. a64s cope admirably with being run on a divider and the extra ram will more than offset the few percentage points of performance lost by running @ ddr333. :)
Click to expand...
I understand that some boards/memory/CPU don't mix but I've never done an AMD build so I wouldn't have known those issues.


oops this thread is a little off topic now. apologies to the OP.
Click to expand...
No, it hasn't really. This discussion that will help Drew to make the best choices. It's good that you take the time to dispense with your knowledge to prevent him having troubles. ;)


Drew: IMHO you should get the Powercolor or HIS as they have the best cooling solutions as part of the package. The bundle is better with the Powercolor. You could go for the Sapphire as a alternative but I would definitely advise you to also buy a third party cooler. Whichever GFX you get make sure that before you run any games or benchmarks you install GPU temp monitoring software. This is especially important with the Saphire but necessary for all cards to prevent any failures. IE if the fan dies on the GFX you'll know straight away if the temps are monitored and can power down to save damage. If you want you can have 2GB total memory to boost overall system performance as well as gaming.
And one last thing. If there are financial constraints I would consider getting a new PSU with the X1950 and save a bit for the memory later. With an underpowered PSU you could damage (fatally) the core components of your system. A 500W (or higher) 20Amp dual rail such as the Liberty or Noisetaker from Enermax will be needed.
 
BTW My PSU Is a 520a vantec stealth....Haven't looked at that thing in a while...

Why do I need a 3rd party cooler? Incase the stock unit dies? Or Just For added cooling in the case?
 
drew_3258 said:
BTW My PSU Is a 520a vantec stealth....Haven't looked at that thing in a while...

Why do I need a 3rd party cooler? Incase the stock unit dies? Or Just For added cooling in the case?
Click to expand...
You said in an earlier post that you had the Stealth 420W. Which model do you have? If it is the 420W then it definitely will not do the job and could cause damage or failure of your hardware. The 520W may do the job ok but when you're testing the new card keep an eye on the voltages and check whether the PSU is heating up when you touch it. If it feels hot then you'll need a different PSU.

You wouldn't need a 3rd party cooler with either the Powercolor or HSI but IMHO it is imperative that you have one with the Sapphire. Everything I've read in reviews and also from current users shows Sapphire's cooling solution to be very poor indeed. If you plan to do much gaming or to overclock the graphics then it will be needed. Without it you could be looking at the card getting fried and failing. Additionally, good cooling on the graphics helps to keep the temps of the entire system lower and may extend the life and performance of your components.
 
nowt wrong with my sapphire cooler. i can't hear it and my idle temp is 41c. i must admit i haven't checked for load temps. the card hasn't missed a beat in the 2 weeks i've had it. only issue with the card is that the ram won't overclock. but at stock it's perfect. :)
 
marc2003 said:
nowt wrong with my sapphire cooler. i can't hear it and my idle temp is 41c. i must admit i haven't checked for load temps. the card hasn't missed a beat in the 2 weeks i've had it. only issue with the card is that the ram won't overclock. but at stock it's perfect. :)
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Check your temps on load. When I'm gaming on HIS the temps go up from 40c (idle) to 46c. The cooling fan accelerates from 40% to 64-77% but is still quiet. This is with an overlock @ 621/742

ATI Tray Tools has a fix for the RAM not being able to overclock on the X1950 series and has many other fixes for the cards. I posted it in the ATI section of this forum and here is the link.
 
you mention overclocking? your HIS card has those clocks as stock so what are you on about. yes i realise it's faster than my sapphire but it's not overclocking.... :p

given the choice, i'd take the HIS over the sapphire for that reason alone. my point earlier was simply that you don't need a 3rd party cooler on the sapphire. :)

edit: i'll have a go with ATT. thanks for the link.
 
It's a factory overclock above the ATI specifications (580/700) which HIS do because of the cooling. I will be trying once I've got everything else sorted to o/clock further
 
well according to ATT, my fan is running at 40%. the next increment up is 45% and it won't do that until the temp reaches 70c. :p

using scan for artifacts, the gpu temp maxed out at 60c that's quite a bit warmer than yours. however the fan hasn't had to speed up and the temp is still perfectly acceptable. :)
 
marc2003 said:
not necessarily. i'm pulling 10381 in 05 with my agp rig. and there are plenty of people running these agp cards with overclocked s939 setups too. the funniest i've seen though is someone running one of these agp cards on a conroe rig with one of those asrock dual vsta combo things. what a waste. :D
Click to expand...

Thats impressive i get just under 7k with my 7800GS overclocked
 
i just got the powercolor x1950 pro, but was wondering if anyone has tested the powercolor x1950pro 256b and the HIS x1950pro 512mb, I also know more isnt always better. So has anyone tested or seen benches on these 2 cards on the same rig...
 
anyone have a review or used both of the powercolor x1950 pro w/ 256mb vs the his x1950 pro w/ 512mb...any input would be greatly appreciated
 
x1950pro is the fastest AGP card, but by how much? A few percentage points? Look at some of the benchmark scores.
The 7800gs actually comes out ahead at certain resolutions.

The 7800gs can be had for $160 after rebate right now. Just got one myself. That is about $60-$70 less than the AGP x1950pro.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814143046

So, I say it all comes down to price. Is the slight speed advantage worth the extra ca$h?

And please don't color me nVidia green. Personally I couldn't care less. Have run both ATI and nVidia in my machines and like
them equally. Well, think I do prefer the nVidia drivers. But that is small consideration overall in my book.
 
Susquehannock said:
x1950pro is the fastest AGP card, but by how much? A few percentage points? Look at some of the benchmark scores.
The 7800gs actually comes out ahead at certain resolutions.

The 7800gs can be had for $160 after rebate right now. Just got one myself. That is about $60-$70 less than the AGP x1950pro.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814143046

So, I say it all comes down to price. Is the slight speed advantage worth the extra ca$h?

And please don't color me nVidia green. Personally I couldn't care less. Have run both ATI and nVidia in my machines and like
them equally. Well, think I do prefer the nVidia drivers. But that is small consideration overall in my book.
Click to expand...

Check you benchmarks, is AA on? What are the resolutions? My older 6800GT can keep up with my new X1950PRO in Quake3Arena.

I look at it this way, the X1950PRO was designed to compete with the 7900GS in PCI-E form. In most reviews I've seen, the X1950PRO is considered better (overall) than the 7900GS. The 7800GS AGP is a castrated 7800GT, or a super-overclocked 6800GT.

If they made a 7900GS for AGP, how much more would you pay for that card over the 7800GS?
 
dej166 said:
If they made a 7900GS for AGP, how much more would you pay for that card over the 7800GS?
Click to expand...
79** AGP is coming according to the rumour-mill. If it does, you can bet NVidia will provide better drivers than ATI does for for the X1950!!
 
cozumel said:
If it does, you can bet NVidia will provide better drivers than ATI does for for the X1950!!
Click to expand...

I've never, ever had a problem with either the official Catalyst or Omega drivers with any ATi cards I've owned. /shrug

Edit- I've never had a problem with Forceware drivers either. Both Nvidia and ATI make top-notch drivers. If you want to see shoddy drivers, check out the old Sound Blaster stuff. Ugh..
 
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