I'm going off to college this fall and for graduation I'm really hoping to get an LCD monitor. I used to be a hardcore gamer but have calmed down since, I still game on occassion but not nearly as much as I used to. Anyway I've heard that this monitor is great for gaming, but some have claimed it is bad for watching movies. Can anyone back up this claim or explain it? Also I would greatly appreciate any recommendations as to what, if any, other monitors I should consider up to 400$. Thanks for any help...
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Hyundai L90D+ 19" LCD
- Thread starter Vs17
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Get a 2005FPW 20" widescreen from Dell for 400 (it's on sale now).
Not to be a Dell advocate here, but the Hyundai is ONLY good for hardcore gamers. It is a TN+ panel, so it stinks for doing things like: watching movies, doing photo work, looking at it from its side (bad viewing angles), anything that requires more than 262,000 colours.
Yadda yadda. You get the drift. If you use your computer mainly for gaming, and are always looking at the screen from straight on, the Hyundai is a great screen. But for anything (and I mean anything) else, look somewhere else. TN+ screens have a lot of quirks to them. The Dell is S-IPS, which is a much better technology, though it doesn't have as good of a response time (12-16ms)... so it's not as much for hardcore gaming.
Not to be a Dell advocate here, but the Hyundai is ONLY good for hardcore gamers. It is a TN+ panel, so it stinks for doing things like: watching movies, doing photo work, looking at it from its side (bad viewing angles), anything that requires more than 262,000 colours.
Yadda yadda. You get the drift. If you use your computer mainly for gaming, and are always looking at the screen from straight on, the Hyundai is a great screen. But for anything (and I mean anything) else, look somewhere else. TN+ screens have a lot of quirks to them. The Dell is S-IPS, which is a much better technology, though it doesn't have as good of a response time (12-16ms)... so it's not as much for hardcore gaming.
The Diplomat
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Wrong StevieP...but thanks for trying to answer his question anyway.
Moogle Stiltzkin
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so if you want to watch movies AND play games, you might as well go Crt cauz it beats Lcd silly.
So once again I am given mixed reviews. One guy says its only for hardcore gamers while the other just blatantly says he is wrong. Is there anyone out there who actually owns this monitor and would like to put their input as to the movie-watching, gaming, viewing angle, and other important features of this monitor?
Diplomat, I beg to differ. My opinion is NOT wrong.
TN+ panels are great for gaming, but SUCK ASS for everything else, including colour reproduction and viewing angles. So if you're a gamer, a TN+ panel like the L90D+ is good because of its fast response time, but you're better off looking elsewhere if you do important things other than gaming. I'm sure many people on here can back up my opinion.
The S-IPS panel is much better. The end.
I mean, you can even check the stickies at the top of this forum. Wrong...
TN+ panels are great for gaming, but SUCK ASS for everything else, including colour reproduction and viewing angles. So if you're a gamer, a TN+ panel like the L90D+ is good because of its fast response time, but you're better off looking elsewhere if you do important things other than gaming. I'm sure many people on here can back up my opinion.
The S-IPS panel is much better. The end.
I mean, you can even check the stickies at the top of this forum. Wrong...
hokatichenci
Gawd
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steviep said:Diplomat, I beg to differ. My opinion is NOT wrong.
TN+ panels are great for gaming, but SUCK ASS for everything else, including colour reproduction and viewing angles. So if you're a gamer, a TN+ panel like the L90D+ is good because of its fast response time, but you're better off looking elsewhere if you do important things other than gaming. I'm sure many people on here can back up my opinion.
The S-IPS panel is much better. The end.
I mean, you can even check the stickies at the top of this forum. Wrong...
I watch movies just fine on my L90D+, the viewing angles arn't as bad as people make them out to be but they arn't great either. The original poster should really just check out some local shops since its a matter of personal preference.
If you can handle it watching movies (and "twinklies") then that is fine. Yes, it is completely a matter of personal preference. But this monitor is meant to be a gaming monitor, hence the 262,000 colours and the super-fast response time. Personally I wouldn't use it as an "all-purpose' screen, as there are better screens for that... such as the afformentioned Dell 20"ers.
I personally have no experience with this "twinkle" effect people talk about. My movies play just fine on my Hyundai screen, so I dunno what you guys are bitching about.
Basically thruth be told, the L90D+ is the best choice for GAMERS at this point in time. It as a result of the TN panel that results in very fast transfer rates in the crystals giving this screen almost no ghosting which results in awesome gameplay.
That being said, if your a avid video/photo artists that demands color clarity and truness or someone who is really sensative to color and viewing angles, this is NOT the monitor for you. The TN Samnsung panels sacrifice viewing angles and color richness for speed. This is a 6bit monitor that does "dithering" to trick into viewing 16.2 million colors. This monitor DOES have sucky viewing angles, meaning if your not looking direclty at the screen and move to the left/right/up/down to much, you'll get a "tanning" effect on the screen. Again, this is the nature of the TN panel in comparison to the IPS panels of the Dell. You gain speed but loose viewing angle and some color clarity.
Honestly, this panel does such a good job of it I honestly cannot tell the difference PERSONALLY between my folks 8bit Dell 17" monitor in color comparison. But this is PERSONAL preference, I cannot judge for everyones standpoint of standards.
That being said, you may wanna read these reviews to get yourself more familiar with the monitor. The Dells offer higher color spectrum due to their 8bit nature vs 6bit. They also have a nice widescreen ratio if you like your monitor like that. They are however slower in response time, 12-16ms so they ghost more then the L90D+. How much again depends on personal preference but it is there.
All in all, I absolutely love my L90D+, have no regrets not getting a Dell and have no intentions of replacing it anytime soon. It absolutely blew my 19" Viewsonic away in almost every aspect.
For ME, this monitor suited my heavy gaming purposes because it DOES NOT Ghost in any game I play, from UT24k, Battlefront, BF1942, Silent Hunter 3, KOTOR, HL2 Deathmatch, you name it, I simpy cannot see ghosting. The dells are more prone to ghosting as a result of the IPS panel and as such, I opted for less ghosting in tradeoff of smaller viewing angles and slightly less true colors. This was MY decision based on MY DEMANDS. You must make the ultimate decision for yourself in the end.
LCD Tech review
Toms L90D+ Review
BeHardware L90D+ review
Basically thruth be told, the L90D+ is the best choice for GAMERS at this point in time. It as a result of the TN panel that results in very fast transfer rates in the crystals giving this screen almost no ghosting which results in awesome gameplay.
That being said, if your a avid video/photo artists that demands color clarity and truness or someone who is really sensative to color and viewing angles, this is NOT the monitor for you. The TN Samnsung panels sacrifice viewing angles and color richness for speed. This is a 6bit monitor that does "dithering" to trick into viewing 16.2 million colors. This monitor DOES have sucky viewing angles, meaning if your not looking direclty at the screen and move to the left/right/up/down to much, you'll get a "tanning" effect on the screen. Again, this is the nature of the TN panel in comparison to the IPS panels of the Dell. You gain speed but loose viewing angle and some color clarity.
Honestly, this panel does such a good job of it I honestly cannot tell the difference PERSONALLY between my folks 8bit Dell 17" monitor in color comparison. But this is PERSONAL preference, I cannot judge for everyones standpoint of standards.
That being said, you may wanna read these reviews to get yourself more familiar with the monitor. The Dells offer higher color spectrum due to their 8bit nature vs 6bit. They also have a nice widescreen ratio if you like your monitor like that. They are however slower in response time, 12-16ms so they ghost more then the L90D+. How much again depends on personal preference but it is there.
All in all, I absolutely love my L90D+, have no regrets not getting a Dell and have no intentions of replacing it anytime soon. It absolutely blew my 19" Viewsonic away in almost every aspect.
For ME, this monitor suited my heavy gaming purposes because it DOES NOT Ghost in any game I play, from UT24k, Battlefront, BF1942, Silent Hunter 3, KOTOR, HL2 Deathmatch, you name it, I simpy cannot see ghosting. The dells are more prone to ghosting as a result of the IPS panel and as such, I opted for less ghosting in tradeoff of smaller viewing angles and slightly less true colors. This was MY decision based on MY DEMANDS. You must make the ultimate decision for yourself in the end.
LCD Tech review
Toms L90D+ Review
BeHardware L90D+ review
steviep: Have you heard of FRC in TN panels?..
You certainly need real experience instead of nonsense theoretical talk. After I have reviewed many monitors I have a wide view on this matter and can tell a lot of positive things about cheaper TN based monitors.
For example, take a look at the colour reproduction on a typical 12 ms TN based monitor:
- although black isn't perfectly black. (general due to backlighting)
Price/qual ratio is indeed good.
Keep in mind that colours below delta 1 is almost perfectly reproduced.
Not every person has your needs but you seem to find that fact hard to accept.
Don't make it worse than it actually is.
You certainly need real experience instead of nonsense theoretical talk. After I have reviewed many monitors I have a wide view on this matter and can tell a lot of positive things about cheaper TN based monitors.
For example, take a look at the colour reproduction on a typical 12 ms TN based monitor:
Price/qual ratio is indeed good.
Keep in mind that colours below delta 1 is almost perfectly reproduced.
Not every person has your needs but you seem to find that fact hard to accept.
Don't make it worse than it actually is.
I apologize if I make TN panels sound like the devil... because they are truly not.
They are targeted obviously to gamers, such as Icewind (fantastic post, btw), and personally... if I was a heavy gamer, I wouldn't have bought a Dell 20" myself.
I am a casual gamer, who uses his monitor for almost everything under the sun, and I find that a TN panel won't do me any good. The recent gen of TN+ panels aren't as bad, granted, as your chart shows. But that doesn't change the fact that simply, 262,000 colours < 16.7mil colours. It also doesn't change the fact that VA panels' 1000:1 contrast ratios are better than 400:1. It also doesn't change the fact that 130/130 degree viewing angles (if you're lucky... don't read manuf. specs) are not as good as 160/160 degree angles. All that said, if you can live with the quirks of TN panels in order to get those amazing response times in comparison to the other technologies, like Icewind so obviously can, then by all means, a TN+ monitor such as the L90D+ is for you.
For me, it is not. My 12ms 2005fpw does fine for the few games that I play. Besides, now with VA screens hitting acceptable response times, those in the LCD market currently should stray away from TN+ panels unless they are [H]core gamers.
They are targeted obviously to gamers, such as Icewind (fantastic post, btw), and personally... if I was a heavy gamer, I wouldn't have bought a Dell 20" myself.
I am a casual gamer, who uses his monitor for almost everything under the sun, and I find that a TN panel won't do me any good. The recent gen of TN+ panels aren't as bad, granted, as your chart shows. But that doesn't change the fact that simply, 262,000 colours < 16.7mil colours. It also doesn't change the fact that VA panels' 1000:1 contrast ratios are better than 400:1. It also doesn't change the fact that 130/130 degree viewing angles (if you're lucky... don't read manuf. specs) are not as good as 160/160 degree angles. All that said, if you can live with the quirks of TN panels in order to get those amazing response times in comparison to the other technologies, like Icewind so obviously can, then by all means, a TN+ monitor such as the L90D+ is for you.
For me, it is not. My 12ms 2005fpw does fine for the few games that I play. Besides, now with VA screens hitting acceptable response times, those in the LCD market currently should stray away from TN+ panels unless they are [H]core gamers.
Personally, I love my L90D+. I got it to replace my Philips 107mb 17" CRT and now have them in dual monitor mode. There isn't anything the CRT does better.. and I thought it was a pretty nice CRT to begin with. The color differences are amazing. I design simple stuff sometimes, like webpages in macromedia fireworks. And if I use a palette of just one color, and drag it across both of the screens, the difference is simply amazing. Now I have no comparison to other LCD's (I liked this one so much i bought a hyundai imagequest 17" for my mom when she upgraded), but I plan to get another one along with a dual dvi graphics card before I go to college.
I'd like to thank all of you greatly for the helpful advice, I most likely will be using this monitor for gaming and for coding, I'm not really big into imaging, perfect color reproduction, and as long as I can see the monitor dead on I should have no problem with viewing angles. In a couple of minutes I'm logging into Newegg and placing my order...
ordered mine on saturday, ncix.com had them on sale i got the 4th one they had left, i was going to wait for the new VA pannels but they were a little out of my price range, this one was getting there but this sale knocked it to where i couldnt resist, i can hardly wait.
steviep: again: Have you heard of FRC in TN panels? - Have you heard of the reproduction of more than 64*64*64 = 262.144 colours?
I see you don't understand the graph either. It shows the colour reproduction of ALL the grey tones from 0 to 255 which are the same for any other panel. The graph therefore shows how the monitor can display the colours (not only 262.144).
Grey tones from 0 (black) to 255 (white) are those which can reproduce a colour by showing an intensity of light in each of the three subpixels and a combination of the three subpixels will make the eye believe, that you actually see a colour.
FRC (Frame Rate Control) can trick your eye into believing that you see some colours that you dont by refreshing certain pixels synchronously with the refresh rate (Hz) and therefore you see more colours than the theoretically 262.144.
If you want to discuss the matter stop reposting your replies in disguise, you have said the same things over and over again now without shedding light on the matter and without being objective but only shallow.
I see you don't understand the graph either. It shows the colour reproduction of ALL the grey tones from 0 to 255 which are the same for any other panel. The graph therefore shows how the monitor can display the colours (not only 262.144).
Grey tones from 0 (black) to 255 (white) are those which can reproduce a colour by showing an intensity of light in each of the three subpixels and a combination of the three subpixels will make the eye believe, that you actually see a colour.
FRC (Frame Rate Control) can trick your eye into believing that you see some colours that you dont by refreshing certain pixels synchronously with the refresh rate (Hz) and therefore you see more colours than the theoretically 262.144.
If you want to discuss the matter stop reposting your replies in disguise, you have said the same things over and over again now without shedding light on the matter and without being objective but only shallow.
Just to mention, even if you sit directly in front of the screen there will already be some colorshift introduced due to narrow vertical viewing angle so the bottom of the screen will always be brighter than the top. If that doesn't bother you, then i'd say go for it.Vs17 said:
mistar I understand that the monitor can "dither" up to 16.2million colours, which is still not true 24-bit colour (16.7m). However, I still stand by my statement that TN+ panels are for gamers and web browsers, because using them for anything else is impractical. There is nothing further to discuss.
alright good, i know some places like Toms hardware say it scales badly, but they know what to look for, this is my first LCD and if it does a reasonable job i would rather keep my 4x AA and 8xAF
Should be getting it today, ill post my review of it shortly
Should be getting it today, ill post my review of it shortly
soulsaver_8229
2[H]4U
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- Mar 17, 2005
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Basicly, if you go with the dell 2005fp, youll have more veiwing surface, like widescreen movies? get the FP, when i saw the L90D+ i loved it, loved reviews from people, and such, but when i thought about it, only games i play is Halo, and i watch anime, so......in my prefrence i want more viewing area, so im going to be getting a dell 2005fp once i can afford it
what im getting at is, if your going to collage, get the L90D+ its smaller, much much lighter, and its a great lcd, no doubt about it, and cheaper than the FP.......
and Icewind you love whoreing out your L90D+ dont ya?
soulsaver_8229
what im getting at is, if your going to collage, get the L90D+ its smaller, much much lighter, and its a great lcd, no doubt about it, and cheaper than the FP.......
and Icewind you love whoreing out your L90D+ dont ya?
soulsaver_8229
Error Macro
Weaksauce
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Yeah, I don't see why some places have negative comments towards the L90D+'s ability to interpolate a lower resolution. I have to play some games at 1024x768 to keep the framerates up, and it looks fine. You lose the sharpness of the native resolution, but it doesn't look terrible. Text is perfectly readable. I'd say it makes everything about as "blurry" as a good CRT monitor, like my Mitsubishi Diamondtron looked.
Droban said:
I guess if there was one thing about the monitor that I would be less than 100% happy with, this would be it. Black colours can be sometimes not truly black looking - this is especially noticable if you are watching movies or whatever in a darkened room. With a lamp or something else on in the room, blacks look more realistic. Kinda hard to explain...
But I would not hesitate to buy another one!
Well, a tradeoff for ANY LCD is your not gonna get true blacks due to the nature of the crystals showing light from the backlight behind them, so your never gonna get true black IN LED technology until OLED or SED comes out in force.
That being said, if impure black is the biggest tradeoff, I have no qualms still with this monitor, it kicks ass.
That being said, if impure black is the biggest tradeoff, I have no qualms still with this monitor, it kicks ass.
xappie said:Dunno - I haven't found any games that I can't play at it's native resolution of 1280x1024 on my X800XT.
My 6800nu handles every game but HL2 at 1280 great, i need 50fps+ to be happy though, it sits at around 38-45 in out door areas. If i notch AA and AF down a little in tha game it climbs back up.
I must say, though I have only had very limited time with my monitor, as the two-week drunken senior vacation intervened, I am thoroughly impressed. The monitor looks beautiful and I even reinstalled some of my old games just to try them out on this monitor. I've never seen something so clear, and I am blown away by the size. I've had a 75 pound 19" CRT for so long that it amazes me to see how far we've come with this monitor. I havent watched any movies yet but the episodes of Aqua Teen Hunger Force I've seen look great. Ill reply later
TheRapture
Supreme [H]ardness
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- 6,885
I'll chime in on this one too....I have a Samsung 915N which is the same TN panel in the L90...and I have an older (but very good) Trinitron P1110 21" CRT. Let me compare some things...
1. text crispness----- the LCD wins, hands down, period, ad infinit !!! The Trinitron CRT is good, but nowhere near as sharp...especially at higher resolutions like the native 1280x1024 of the LCD, small text is very easy to read, the CRT gets fuzzy with small fonts. I wanted an LCD because while I do game 3-5 hours per week, I spend ALOT more time reading, etc. Easy on the eyes is what I need...
2. speed for 3D---- CRT of course, very good. NO ghosting, high refresh rates, different resolutions are just as good, etc. The LCD, while very fast and smooth, is NOT as smooth as the CRT. I notice minor ghosting, but nothing that bothers me, especially in the heat of battle.
3. color reproduction---- the CRT wipes the floor with the LCD. You can REALLY see it in FarCry like on the opening screens and such, the dithering of the LCD is very noticeable. In actual gameplay, it is better, but certain areas where you have the same color that goes from light to dark levels, you CAN see some dithering, sometimes the sky shows this. Not bad really, but NOT as good as a CRT, period. Doom3 with all it's (lack of) color shows dithering badly in some areas, due to all of the dark/black shadowing.
4. Contrast/brightness--- LCD wins hands down. Lots of adjustment possible. Of course my CRT being a bit older may have lost some of it's intensity.
I picked the Samsung 915N because I needed crisp text AND good gaming capabilities with LIGHT WEIGHT...my small desk was bowing from the 75lb CRT hehe. Also going to a LAN was a bitch with the big heavy CRT. The TN panel does this with aplomb. I never expected it to be a complete replacement for my big CRT or to do everything better. It does great in some things, good in others, and never is "bad" at anything...and overall, I am very happy. These displays are so subjective you really need to try one out if possible before making a decision...
1. text crispness----- the LCD wins, hands down, period, ad infinit !!! The Trinitron CRT is good, but nowhere near as sharp...especially at higher resolutions like the native 1280x1024 of the LCD, small text is very easy to read, the CRT gets fuzzy with small fonts. I wanted an LCD because while I do game 3-5 hours per week, I spend ALOT more time reading, etc. Easy on the eyes is what I need...
2. speed for 3D---- CRT of course, very good. NO ghosting, high refresh rates, different resolutions are just as good, etc. The LCD, while very fast and smooth, is NOT as smooth as the CRT. I notice minor ghosting, but nothing that bothers me, especially in the heat of battle.
3. color reproduction---- the CRT wipes the floor with the LCD. You can REALLY see it in FarCry like on the opening screens and such, the dithering of the LCD is very noticeable. In actual gameplay, it is better, but certain areas where you have the same color that goes from light to dark levels, you CAN see some dithering, sometimes the sky shows this. Not bad really, but NOT as good as a CRT, period. Doom3 with all it's (lack of) color shows dithering badly in some areas, due to all of the dark/black shadowing.
4. Contrast/brightness--- LCD wins hands down. Lots of adjustment possible. Of course my CRT being a bit older may have lost some of it's intensity.
I picked the Samsung 915N because I needed crisp text AND good gaming capabilities with LIGHT WEIGHT...my small desk was bowing from the 75lb CRT hehe. Also going to a LAN was a bitch with the big heavy CRT. The TN panel does this with aplomb. I never expected it to be a complete replacement for my big CRT or to do everything better. It does great in some things, good in others, and never is "bad" at anything...and overall, I am very happy. These displays are so subjective you really need to try one out if possible before making a decision...