Hyperloop LA Tunnel will Open on December 10

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by AlphaAtlas, Oct 23, 2018.

  1. AlphaAtlas

    AlphaAtlas [H]ard|Gawd Staff Member

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    Late Sunday night, Elon Musk revealed that the LA Hyperloop Tunnel will open on December 10. In another tweet, Musk claims the system will have a top speed of 155mph. There will be an opening event at night, and if everything goes to plan, there will be "free rides for the public next day." Musk's Boring Company is just one of many companies chasing the hyperloop transportation dream, and Musk hopes that trips from downtown LA to the international airport could take just 10 minutes.

    A hyperloop is a shuttle pod that travels on magnetic rails, somewhat like a train, but which runs in a tube with little or no air. In theory, hyperloops could allow travel faster than the speed of sound.
     
  2. Galvin

    Galvin 2[H]4U

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    Didn't some guy a while back make a video proving this stuff couldn't work?
     
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  3. bobdabilder

    bobdabilder Limp Gawd

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    Waiting for something bad to happen in 3....2......1.....
     
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  4. Spidey329

    Spidey329 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    No, if it's the one I think you're talking about, his video was bias and not based in actual science. Most of his conclusions were hypotheticals with serious flaws in their logic.

    Off the top of my head, his theory that the tube would collapse from the vacuum was flawed as his basis for the theory was the Mythbusters episode (and some other footage) where they vacuum down a tanker and collapse it.

    The problem with that is the tanker is designed to keep pressure IN, not OUT (since a vacuum inside would allow the atmospheric pressure to be greater). Looking at the failure video shows it fails in that very way as the support structure was not designed to be pulled against (only pushed).

    There were many more.
     
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  5. Merc1138

    Merc1138 2[H]4U

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    If they're only running it at 155mph, that's a far cry from "working" when the claims have been supersonic travel under a vacuum.
     
  6. Danny Dawg

    Danny Dawg [H]ard|Gawd

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    I pass on the underground modes of transportation.
     
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  7. kju1

    kju1 2[H]4U

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    Including normal subways and tunnels under the water? What about swimming? ;)
     
  8. purple_monster

    purple_monster Gawd

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    will be interesting to see if the hobos can manage to poop on the train before the grand opening. watching with hungry eyes.
     
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  9. lironmiron

    lironmiron Limp Gawd

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    Not really. It takes time to build up speed if you don't want to your passengers to end up like stamps and I'm guessing that this first stage that they can open in just a couple of months will not be long enough to get to higher speeds.


    If only Elon Musk would spend a little more time making videos explaining why things can't be done, instead of just going out and doing seemingly impossible things, thew world would be progressing so much more!
     
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  10. Ocellaris

    Ocellaris Ginger @le, an alcoholic's best friend.

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    Unless this is running in a near vacuum tube, which it won’t be, it’s just a fast train.

    Saying this is a Hyperloop is like cooking a hot dog and claiming you are a Michelin Starred Chef.
     
  11. viper1152012

    viper1152012 [H]ard|Gawd

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    I love the "only 155mph" comments.

    For those that will use the amazingly fast underground transport I'm sure its better than bumper to bumper traffic.

    100mph would be awesome. So this is fantastic.
     
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  12. Inu

    Inu [H]ard|Gawd

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    Found this on google. Not sure of source.

    Here are the world's fastest high-speed trains in commercial service, ranked by speed:
    1. Shanghai Maglev: 267 mph. ...
    2. Fuxing Hao CR400AF/BF: 249 mph. ...
    3. Shinkansen H5 and E5: 224 mph. ...
    4. The Italo and Frecciarossa: 220 mph. ...
    5. Renfe AVE: 217 mph. ...
    6. Haramain Western Railway: 217 mph. ...
    7. DeutscheBahn ICE: 205 mph. ...
    8. Korail KTX: 205 mph.
     
  13. tempertantrum

    tempertantrum Limp Gawd

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    I think those all go much longer distances than this would, lots of time to build up speed, and since they aren't in a tube the air easily displaces around them. 155mph underground is much more difficult.
     
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  14. Ihaveworms

    Ihaveworms [H]ardness Supreme

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    I rode the Shanghai Maglev this year. It is wild traveling that fast so close to the ground. As for the 155mph, this is just an initial speed. Give it some time.
     
  15. BSmith

    BSmith [H]ard|Gawd

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    Top speed, while neat to look at, is not the major consideration. Average speed over the length of time is more important as it takes a long time to get to speed. For instance, the route where the Shanghia Maglev runs averages 142MPH. It does 267MPH runs ever other run (twice a day). Presumably to allow cooling of the system.

    How long is the tunnel?
     
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  16. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics I don't get it

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    Well they are only zipping around the LA area and from the sounds of it a tunnel from downtown LA to the airport then 155mph isn't horrible. I'm really curious about how it will work, will it be individual cars that house a few people like originally planned? Will it basically be a really fast subway car?

    Whether it works or not it certainly will be entertaining.
     
  17. bobdabilder

    bobdabilder Limp Gawd

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    I snickered a little at 2
     
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  18. Merc1138

    Merc1138 2[H]4U

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    Except the entire point, is to be a train/car/module/whatever in a vacuum. If this is not in a vacuum, then it's no different than any other rail system except having Elon's name on it.
     
  19. JavaLava

    JavaLava [H]Lite

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    Went to San Francisco for the first time 2 years back for work...was told to take the train from airport to our office...was greeted to a nice turd on the seat when I entered the train. Walked out...grabbed a Lyft, will never take the train again in that city (have many more hobo stories from that trip).
     
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  20. griffinhart

    griffinhart [H]ard|Gawd

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    This is NOT a Hyperloop tunnel. This was the tunnel he created to test the "boring company" equipment. This has nothing to do with the hyperloop projects out there. There is no vacuum chamber involved. It's simply a conventional high speed train in a tunnel.
     
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  21. griffinhart

    griffinhart [H]ard|Gawd

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    150mph is trivial for high speed rail. Even the current Acela line hits that speed. Most of the limitations of that train are due to speed limits in place. The Acela isn't even a maglev train. It uses standard gauge tracks.

    People are confusing this tunnel train with the Hyperloop. This is not that at all.
     
  22. SLee

    SLee Gawd

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    Actually, it's only a <2 mile tunnel from the SpaceX property in Hawthorne to the NW side of the Hawthorne Airport.

    From the city documents, the tunnel starts at 12220 Crenshaw Blvd. It originally was supposed to exit at the intersection of 120th Street and Hawthorne Blvd but has now been shorten to 4012 120th Street with an "car elevator" at 3834 119th Place.

    http://hawthorne-ca.granicus.com/MetaViewer.php?view_id=2&clip_id=551&meta_id=36052

    IBIc4HQ.jpg
     
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  23. griffinhart

    griffinhart [H]ard|Gawd

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    This was the original concept for the project.


    Since then, it has become a fast subway tunnel going from the airport to near his offices.
     
  24. seanreisk

    seanreisk Gawd

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    It's called 'iterative design'. This is a small step in their process. They've finished a usable section of tunnel and they plan on studying that section while people use it. Each stage has a big emphasis on safety and validation.

    The Boring Company is Elon's 'casual' company, it's not in a great hurry to change the world.
     
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  25. lightsout

    lightsout Gawd

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    Oh man that's great, and gross lol.
     
  26. dvsman

    dvsman 2[H]4U

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    OK so I get the idea of sending a pod through a vacuum tunnel at high speeds but can someone with en engineering / science background explain how a person can survive at 700mph+ in the same said pod?
     
  27. Merc1138

    Merc1138 2[H]4U

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    Uhh... the same way you can survive traveling at hundreds of miles per hour on a plane. As long as you aren't accelerating or decelerating too fast, it's not an issue.
     
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  28. dvsman

    dvsman 2[H]4U

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    Hey I'm sorry man, I've never flown on anything faster than a commercial jet and those are only what 300-400 miles per hour?

    Looking at how much gear a fighter pilot has to wear to go mach 1+ (=700mph+) I've always thought there was something more required to going that fast.
     
  29. Merc1138

    Merc1138 2[H]4U

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    They wear a lot of gear, again because of the acceleration and deceleration involved in their maneuvers(plus oxygen, comms, etc.).

    Let me put it this way. The Earth rotates once every 24 hours, and is around 25,000 miles in circumference. That means at the equator, you would be moving at a little over 1000 miles per hour. Obviously it's not as if things are being obliterated at the equator by moving that fast, since they're all moving that fast. As long as the vehicle you're in isn't accelerating fast enough to the point of turning you into paste against the back of your seat, it's fine.

    Now a sudden stop at 700 miles per hour would indeed be a problem, but a sudden stop at 70 also isn't good for you.

    edit: I'll also point out that the concorde passenger jet cruised at mach 2. Obviously passengers didn't need to wear g suits for that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
  30. Nafensoriel

    Nafensoriel Limp Gawd

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    Musk hasn't done anything revolutionary in a while. He has utilized older technology and ideas that haven't been utilized yet, however. This is not the same as innovation.

    The hyperloop as sold is not the hyperloop thats opening soon. This is merely a high-speed subway train system. If its top speed is 155mph its actually a pretty terrible one at that considering its supposed to operate at a vacuum. A subway train can operate in a far more predictable environment than a bullet train on an exposed track dealing with shifting air pressures and wind. The fact that they are limiting it to 155 suggests technical problems with the vacuum system.

    Frankly, this is just a bait and switch cash grab like solar roadways. Musk has spent billions to build... a subway train. To boot he also is building it in what is probably the least efficient way possible.
     
  31. FearTheCow

    FearTheCow [H]ardness Supreme

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    Thunder foot has a couple videos on the problems with an actual hyperloop. The biggest problem being decompression of the tunnel or vehicle, with wtf happens when their is a malfunction and a group of people are stuck inside a non-mobile capsule in a vacuum tube.

    Oh, he also points out people have come up with the same idea for 60+ years.
     
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  32. Nafensoriel

    Nafensoriel Limp Gawd

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    At 200mph just running into the atmosphere rushing into the breach would likely kill everyone in the transport unit. At the proposed speeds worrying about suffocating would be pretty low on the list of challenges to solve.
     
  33. Burticus

    Burticus 2[H]4U

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    high speed underground homeless shelter
     
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  34. DrBorg

    DrBorg Gawd

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    This; If you want to go sonic speeds, you need to be in a vacuum, otherwise the wear and tear on the equipment inside the tunnel would be a bit severe as well.

    I'd personally hate to be the engineer that tests the sound barrier with it on a non looping track. :)


    Niven and others have pointed out that a parabolic trajectory tunnel, using maglev in an evacuated tunnel, the passengers would basically be in free fall for half the trip in the tunnel, and would rise back almost to the terminus without power, only needing to replace losses.

    Having a breach in the tunnel at one end, with passenger pods in the tunnel, would be very similar to the ping pong ball thing on mythbusters; you'd get blown thru the wall at the end at sonic speed. :)
     
  35. lucidrenegade

    lucidrenegade Limp Gawd

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    When the passenger version arrives, the question is...

    How do you poop in the hyperloop?
     
  36. Makaveli@BETA

    Makaveli@BETA 2[H]4U

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    Baby steps friend baby steps.

    You don't want to launch something like that going 800 Mph you start small and work your way up.

    Better to run into issues now and fix them at 155mph then at the speed of sound or above.
     
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  37. Nafensoriel

    Nafensoriel Limp Gawd

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    The trouble is from an engineering POV 155mph rail line in a pressurized tunnel isn't a baby step. Its a step two states over on a different project.
    If this was 300mph under vaccum.. then it would be something to be impressed about.
     
  38. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics I don't get it

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    From what I've heard it rarely gets to those speeds due to going through populated area quite often. Now only if they built a tunnel :
     
  39. Paul_Johnson

    Paul_Johnson [H] Admin Staff Member

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    No, that's BART.
     
  40. Sycraft

    Sycraft [H]ardness Supreme

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    How so? That's pretty regular speed for high speed passenger trains. The Eurostar goes 100mph in the Channel Tunnel (undersea tunnel from England to France) and as much as 180mph overland. Heck even the Javelin trains that do shorter hops in the UK can get up to 140ish. That's just train speeds, not even really fast train speeds. Putting a train in a tunnel is nothing new or special. As I mentioned, there's a 30 mile tunnel that runs under the English Channel that was built over 2 decades ago. The idea of the "Hyperloop" is supposed to be a vacuum tunnel with supersonic trains. Demonstrating a regular high speed train in a tunnel does not demonstrate they are any closer to that as that is something that the technology is already widely available for.

    The Alpha and Omega problem for it is how do you maintain a vacuum in a large tunnel safely and efficiently. Until they can show a solution for that, it is all just fluff. Making the train that can go fast is not the hard part, we do that already.