Hyper-V on top of ESX

A

aaronearles

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 31, 2006
Messages
2,016
This may seem like a strange question, but it's just for study. Can I run Server 2008 w/ HV with a VM running, ON TOP of ESX along side some other VMs?

I only have one box to dedicate to a vserver, and ESX is a bit more flexible because the host requires so little memory/cpu. However, I want to learn and work with both products.

Server will be a Phenom 9650 x4 with 4GB for now, not sure if all my hardware is supported in ESX, but assuming it is, this would be my ideal setup - I think.

Thanks!
 
There's one way to find out, the performance hit ought to be nasty though.

If I were you, I would review my needs (considering that this seems to be just a box to monkey around) and settle on a dual boot (two physical disks) into ESXi and Server 2008. That ought to make your life a whole lot easier.

Another consideration when it comes to "learn and work with both products" is that ESXi and ESX are different and that learning ESXi will not be sufficient to proficiently administer ESX.
 
ESX and ESXi are not different. The only real difference is in licensing. ESX has three tiers, ESXi has those three in addition to a free one. Virtual Center ties the two together the same. From an admin level the only real difference is you don't get a console based CLI with ESXi, you get a remote CLI with one of the paid tiers.

However it's still there just hidden, if you know VMWare's little secret code you can unlock the console cli on ESXi.

ESXi also has a smaller footprint that allows vendors(HP,Dell,ect.) to embed it on a flash chip. But it still functions the same as a HDD based ESX installation and you can still install it on disk drives.
 
Taco said:
ESX and ESXi are not different. The only real difference is in licensing.
Click to expand...

That's like saying the only real difference between a bike and a motorcycle is the engine, with about the same difference in cost...
 
If you buy an enterprise license for ESXi it is still ESXi, not ESX. You still manage it through VC. It has the same functionality of ESX. The interface is the same, everything that most people will deal with is the same. I'm pretty sure you can use ESXi and ESX interoperably within the same DRS cluster(not positive there). There just isn't an easily accessible CLI and it has a much smaller install footprint. The intention of ESXi is to run ESX in almost a firmware format.
 
Also, you can run it in a trial with full functionality. So saying ESXi will not prepare you for ESX ist just FUD of the worst degree.

Two ESXi hosts + 1 virtualized VC + shared storage = learn everything ESX can do for I believe 60 days. Granted the shared storage is the most difficult part for a hobbiest, just find software that can emulate an iSCSI target and use ESXi's built in iSCSI initiator.
 
Service console functionality is an integral part of any Enterprise level ESX deployment. ESXi is lacking the service console, hence you will not be able to learn and experiment with anything that relies on the service console. No FUD here.
 
http://vmwaretips.com/wp/2008/10/20/access-the-esxi-service-console/
Here is a brief write-up on how to access the Service Console of VMware ESXi. As a disclaimer, this should only be done under the direct supervision of a VMware Support Engineer.

1. From the ESXi console summary screen hit ALT-F1.
2. Enter the word “unsupported” (without quotes).
3. Enter in the root password for your system.
4. Be careful

Now edit the inetd.conf file to enable remote SSH into this console;

1. Edit /etc/inetd.conf (vi /etc/inetd.conf).
2. Remove the # sign in front of the SSH line.
3. Kill and restart the inetd process.
1.) ps -ef |grep inetd
2.) kill -HUP <pid>
# pid is the Process ID, the first number displayed from ps -ef
4. SSH into the IP of your ESXi server, using your root login/password.
Click to expand...

There's your service console. And it's not THAT large of a part, makes some tasks easier, but it's only really required when shit hits the fan. Most people are calling VMWare at that point.
 
There's your service console. And it's not THAT large of a part, makes some tasks easier, but it's only really required when shit hits the fan. Most people are calling VMWare at that point.
Click to expand...

Let me rephrase that. If you are trying to get to the level of doing enterprise deployments, well using an enterprise level of ESX to play around with is not going to get you to that level either. You need hands on experience in a real environment first. But you defintely can get enough knowledge to walk into a VMWare job. Knowledge out there is still pretty abysmal.
 
Not sure where the argument came up. All I said that ESXi alone will not make you proficient in administering ESX because the two are different.

Yes, you can use the ESX 60-day trial to learn things that you can't using ESXi, I am not arguing otherwise.

All I am saying is that one shouldn't learn ESXi and then go to a job interview assuming they know ESX, because that will end badly. Whether or not the CLI can be accessed in ESXi has nothing to do with the fact that ESX includes functionality, and thus admin options, which simply don't exist in ESXi.

I think it's a good suggestion to just use the 60-day trial of the full VI3 instead of ESXi if one is really out to land a job and not out to just monkey around out of curiosity.
 
Taco said:
ESX and ESXi are not different. The only real difference is in licensing. ESX has three tiers, ESXi has those three in addition to a free one. Virtual Center ties the two together the same. From an admin level the only real difference is you don't get a console based CLI with ESXi, you get a remote CLI with one of the paid tiers.

However it's still there just hidden, if you know VMWare's little secret code you can unlock the console cli on ESXi.

ESXi also has a smaller footprint that allows vendors(HP,Dell,ect.) to embed it on a flash chip. But it still functions the same as a HDD based ESX installation and you can still install it on disk drives.
Click to expand...

The CLI for ESXi is very, very different from the one in ESX. There are major architectural differences as well, especially in the management agents and interface systems.

Even tech support mode is barely related to the CLI in ESX classic.

Trust me, they're VERY different. VERY very different.
 
Taco said:
http://vmwaretips.com/wp/2008/10/20/access-the-esxi-service-console/


There's your service console. And it's not THAT large of a part, makes some tasks easier, but it's only really required when shit hits the fan. Most people are calling VMWare at that point.
Click to expand...

It's a very different service console and missing about half the commands that are in the classic CLI, not to mention that many system files are dynamically generated instead of statically like one would expect (/etc/hosts for instance).

In addition, using the CLI in classic is fully supported. Using the CLI in ESXi without vmware tech support on the phone is "unsupported".
 
Taco said:
If you buy an enterprise license for ESXi it is still ESXi, not ESX. You still manage it through VC. It has the same functionality of ESX. The interface is the same, everything that most people will deal with is the same. I'm pretty sure you can use ESXi and ESX interoperably within the same DRS cluster(not positive there). There just isn't an easily accessible CLI and it has a much smaller install footprint. The intention of ESXi is to run ESX in almost a firmware format.
Click to expand...

Yes, the VC interacts the same, and yes you can intersperse them (even with 3.0.2 / 3.0.3 boxes), they're VERY different under the hood though and on how they actually achieve the same objective, especially on most of the management agents and interactions (heaven forbid you have to configure HA without DNS on 3i - /etc/hosts is a dynamic file, as is /etc/ft_hosts. Good luck!).

ESXi is to separate the Hypervisor from a bootstrap environment, so yes, we're eventually trying to make it just like an extra bios on server motherboards. Ish.
 
Thuleman said:
Another consideration when it comes to "learn and work with both products" is that ESXi and ESX are different and that learning ESXi will not be sufficient to proficiently administer ESX.
Click to expand...

Disagree. ESXi works perfectly fine with VirtualCenter and supports VMotion, HA, DRS, and anything else supported by ESX classic.

IIRC, VMware's long term plans is to get rid of the Console OS.
 
lizardking009 said:
Disagree. ESXi works perfectly fine with VirtualCenter and supports VMotion, HA, DRS, and anything else supported by ESX classic.

IIRC, VMware's long term plans is to get rid of the Console OS.
Click to expand...

he didn't say that it didn't, he said that they're administered differently, which they are. :) Especially if you want things like hardware monitoring and the like.. They are identical from an end user and high-up administration perspective, but troubleshooting is very different.

There are major differences under the hood.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top