Hunted: The Demon's Forge

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darkstarcow said:
I just watched the video you linked WabeWalker. I found it hilarious that it was an xbox 360 site which did the interview. Let me guess, this is going to be one more crap console port which you are going to eat up like you have Crysis 2 and DA: O.
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I'm beginning to regret having posted this.
 
WabeWalker said:
Because a huge number of people don't understand what debate is. Debate is about attacking a person's views - and yes I used the word attack.

You're free to attack my views in return - give as good as you get. It's only when one's ideas are under attack that they're truly put to the test.

A personal insult, on the other hand, is directly calling a guy a dickhead or telling him to fuck off - your posts, if they're really well written, will communicate that sentiment anyhow, and will be one hundred times more powerful because you DIDN'T tell the guy to fuck off. At this forum I've done that just once - just out and out told a guy to go fuck himself. I deeply regretted it the next day. It was one of the worst things I've ever done at any forum and the next day I was deeply ashamed of myself for having done it.

At no point in this thread did I attack any person. Their views - yes. Aggressively - yes. That's what forums have always been about.

The fact is, you just don't like me. You don't like what I write. And you want me gone. THAT'S what's really happening here.
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You don't "debate" - you flame and namecall until people start giving it back to you, and then you pull the "poor me up on my cross" bullshit.

You haven't debated anything in this thread on the merits, but just - yet again - flamed people for disagreeing with you. You do nothing more than cause trouble, and I challenge you to find a majority here who would be sad to see you gone from here.
 
I don't name call or flame - sorry, but I don't. You simply can't see what an argument is. It's a set of premises followed by a conclusion.

The arguments I construct at this forum really seem to agitate you. In consequence you view them as being inflammatory. They're not. It's amazing that you don't seem to understand this.

And I completely disagree with your assertion that I haven't presented any arguments in this thread. I happen to think I've presented some fairly decent arguments in this thread. But again, they're arguments that you personally don't like.

Calling me a 'troublemaker' because I disagree with what you write is kind of silly.
 
The way you see yourself is so distorted it's well beyond pathological.

This is by no means a rational and flame-free argument:

WabeWalker said:
What the hell is this... so now even Brian Fargo is getting the treatment!!!

Who the fuck is left!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've never used that many exclamation marks in my life... but seriously... WTF? My god, if it were revealed that Jesus Christ himself had just designed a game some of you guys would probably still be skeptical. Do we have to resurrect Leonard Fucking Da Vinci and get him to make a game - maybe we could get Mozart to write the score?

Just... unbelievable.
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WabeWalker said:
Fail post.

People absolutey do care about who develops the games.

If an announcement was made at E3 that, say, Joey Schmoey, from Queens, had developed a strategy game, and then two hours later another announcement was made, that Sid Meier had developed a strategy game, are you telling me that people wouldn't give a damn about the developer, but would focus solely on the strategy games themselves. Bullshit they would. Sid Meier has earned a reputation, and for that reason alone people would be drawn to his game.

Yeah, right, a developer with an amazing track record should be treated like every other designer - not.

I suggest, Fail, that you take a second gander at the video in which Mr. Fargo's shelf is revealed. Take a look at the titles that are resting on that shelf. If that shelf doesn't impress you - and clearly you too are a guy who finds fault with most contemporary developers, judging by your posting history - then, pray, tell... what WOULD impress you.

You can be critical of developers all you like, but there comes a time... and this is it.. when a person either has to put up or shut up.

Don't make me list all those titles on his shelf. I swear to god, it will just make your argument look foolish.

But I want to know, which developer has a better track record than Mr. Fargo? Which developer on the face of this planet has a shelf that can even compare with that one? I want to know. I want to SEE that name.
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Oh, and calling people who don't like a game after its release pirates (by the actual term or by a poorly-disguised implication) is namecalling.
 
What? Those are all perfectly valid arguments.

The first post is half satirical, although there's a lot of truth in it - I mean, if we're going to be skeptical of Brian Fargo, then we might as well be skeptical of everyone. No, seriously. If Brian Fargo is now a lousy developer, then everyone is.

The second post in particular pretty much gets straight to the heart of the matter, and I thank you for quoting it. In particular, pay attention to the third paragraph in which I explain why people DO care about the developer. That's a clever argument. I have no idea whatsoever why you think this post is inflammatory. It's one of the better posts I've written.

Ah well, I can see that trying to discuss a potentially good game isn't going to happen. The developer has to be attacked... the game has to be labelled another shit console port... yup, par for the course.
 
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WabeWalker said:
What? Those are all perfectly valid arguments.

The first post is half satirical, although there's a lot of truth in it - I mean, if we're going to be skeptical of Brian Fargo, then we might as well be skeptical of everyone. No, seriously. If Brian Fargo is now a lousy developer, then everyone is.

The second post in particular pretty much gets straight to the heart of the matter, and I thank you for quoting it.
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Yeah well I never mentioned the guy, I actually posted a positive sentiment about the game. You still carry on regardless.

A healthy about of scepticism is good - whenever developers get a blank cheque to do whatever they want, you end up with shitty games. Acting butthurt over people attacking a guy you don't even know personally is completely irrational.

This is a problem I have articulated as best I can to you now on several occasions - your arguments always get lost in the histrionics that go with them. There is clearly inflammatory language in those posts regardless of validity of the argument - instead of fostering a healthy discussion with Fail about the merits of Fargo-worship, you're trying to rile him up so you can look like the good guy. If your argument carries so much weight of truth, you don't need to do that...plus people see right through it, and it inevitably leads to thread derailment and posts reported.

Bottom line - act with some civility and drop the anger and overzealotry - you'll make everyone's time here much more enjoyable, not least of all your own. Nobody in this thread has actually told you to "fuck off", so you've no reason to act so mortally offended all the goddamned time.
 
Well, it's really easy to see, you turned a thread from being about a game that's coming out, into a flamewar crapfest, THAT, sir, is par for the course with you.

It's all blind assertions, logical fallacies, and straw man arguments same old shit as in all the other 5720702 threads you've made.

It's getting really old man, so old, I PM'd Oldie, see if we can't wrap this up, since there's nothing constructive being said.
 
Fail said:
Well, it's really easy to see, you turned a thread from being about a game that's coming out, into a flamewar crapfest, THAT, sir, is par for the course with you.

It's all blind assertions, logical fallacies, and straw man arguments same old shit as in all the other 5720702 threads you've made.

It's getting really old man, so old, I PM'd Oldie, see if we can't wrap this up, since there's nothing constructive being said.
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Closing the thread is merely treating the symptoms.
 
What I don't need is you telling me 'to act with civility'. You're not the judge of me. And quite frankly, you're the last person I would take any type of advice from. You over-react to everything I write, and you're constantly in my face. It's getting really tiring. I can't write one single thing without seeing your name show up almost immediately afterwards.

Look, in life, you're probably a nice guy. But at this forum it's clear that I agitate you. Just stop reading what I write, okay. Enjoy the titles you play, and let's leave it at that.
 
Fail said:
Well, it's really easy to see, you turned a thread from being about a game that's coming out, into a flamewar crapfest, THAT, sir, is par for the course with you.

It's all blind assertions, logical fallacies, and straw man arguments same old shit as in all the other 5720702 threads you've made.

It's getting really old man, so old, I PM'd Oldie, see if we can't wrap this up, since there's nothing constructive being said.
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Fail, just one slightly off topic question. I read almost all of your your posts at this forum. In all sincerity, which titles, at present, are you truly enjoying? Which PC games are a turn on for you?
 
WabeWalker said:
What I don't need is you telling me 'to act with civility'. You're not the judge of me. And quite frankly, you're the last person I would take any type of advice from. You over-react to everything I write, and you're constantly in my face. It's getting really tiring. I can't write one single thing without seeing your name show up almost immediately afterwards.
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That's really rich Wabe, really. You are judge for everyone here, you just can't handle it in return. If my posts offend you so, put me on your Ignore list. I'm not about to put you on any Ignore list because someone needs to refute the inflammatory crap you get away with posting here. If you think you're going to silence me without actually changing how you behave here, I'm afraid it's just tough shit. I'm not out to personally attack or harass you - the frequency of your carry-on right now just seems to make it appear that way.

I actually tried to give you some damn good advice there but you're clearly incapable of admitting fault or accepting responsibility for anything.
 
Guys, seriously, you both need to put my name on your ignore lists. You're now attempting to run me out of the forum. Sorry, but that's what you're doing.
 
WabeWalker said:
Guys, seriously, you both need to put my name on your ignore lists. You're now attempting to run me out of the forum. Sorry, but that's what you're doing.
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You want a free pass to act like a bully and make everyone see things your way. Isn't going to happen.

Plague_Injected said:
I'm not about to put you on any Ignore list because someone needs to refute the inflammatory crap you get away with posting here. If you think you're going to silence me without actually changing how you behave here, I'm afraid it's just tough shit.
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Wabe you are praising the hell out of Fargo (and I'm probably one of the few people around here that had heard of the name long before this thread), but you are praising him for some games he didn't even work on. Fargo was the head of Interplay. He didn't create all of the Bioware or Black Isle games, he signed off on them and got the funding for them. He allowed them to be created, but thats about it. Fargo was also part of the group of Interplay execs the drove the company into the ground. Going public was the worst decision they could have possibly made at the time. Before Fargo left they released Freespace 2 and Decent 3 without bothering to market them or do anything to prevent their piss poor sales and losing the company a lot of money. Fargo left before Titus bought out his company, but he is a big reason for what happened to it.

Hunted looks interesting, but Fargo's history isn't all roses and chocolate. Their last interesting looking title HEI$T was canned supposedly due to being crap. Their iOS games all sound like garbage shovelware as well. So yes the man and his former company have a hell of a history, but its a history of good and bad choices and games.
 
The point I was trying to make was really a fairly simple one - namely, that Brian Fargo is a well respected name in gaming, and that any title he's behind is at least worth looking out for.

Had Sid Meier announced a new title I would have taken notice for the same reason. I thought it was perfectly legitimate to respond to a person who was saying that the name Brian Fargo didn't mean much. It means quite a bit actually.

Will this game be great - I have no idea, but it's worth watching out for. Has Brian Fargo made mistakes, and released poor games - yes, of course. Not everyone is going to be successful all the time, but there is a reason successful people are successful. Which is actually why I wrote this:

"Tiger Woods didn't hit the green every single time, Andres Aggasi didn't ace every serve, Michael Schumacher didn't win every race, and indeed Sid Meier hasn't always created strategy games that have become instant classics - but if I hear that Sid is working on a new strategy game I sure as hell am going to sit up and take notice.

Bill Roeper, when his company was going down the tubes, expressed frustration that his name, and his name alone, was associated with Hellgate London, and he very eloquently stated that when games are successful the lead designer gets way, way too much credit - a game, rather, is made by dozens of people, all chipping in, and working towards one vision.

Brian Fargo has always had the Midas touch, because he has something that very few people possess - an ability to spot talent, and to acquire it. His track record for bringing people together, and allowing them to go at it, and make great games, is unparalleled. When I hear that this guy is creating a new game, I take notice."
 
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Wabe, why don't you check out League of Legends?

A lot of us play it, it'd be cool if you were on the other team . . . . .
 
WabeWalker said:
I thought it was perfectly legitimate to respond to a person who was saying that the name Brian Fargo didn't mean much. It means quite a bit actually.
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It seems to YOU that it means quite a bit, which is all fine. I'm sure he means just as much to other people also, but I'm gonna go on a leap and say he doesn't mean jack diddily to the majority of us (gamers).

The past is the past, the only thing relevant is recent history.

That out of the way, thanks for bringing this to my attention. From the little I watched of it, it seems to be a bit different gameplay style and I think it'll be refreshing at leas for a little bit for me.
 
Samson4EiT said:
It seems to YOU that it means quite a bit, which is all fine. I'm sure he means just as much to other people also, but I'm gonna go on a leap and say he doesn't mean jack diddily to the majority of us (gamers).

The past is the past, the only thing relevant is recent history.

That out of the way, thanks for bringing this to my attention. From the little I watched of it, it seems to be a bit different gameplay style and I think it'll be refreshing at leas for a little bit for me.
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In particular, the elven archer looks interesting. I watched a video of the melee character posted at Gamespot, and it looked solid for an action RPG. The gameplay footage is just very enticing. This title has the potential to be a sleeper hit - I think that this has maybe been flying under the radar a bit.

Not saying it will be great. But there's potential here.

Respectfully, though, I have to disagree about the past being the past. Reputations are difficult to build - guys like Sid and Brian, who have proven themselves, to say the least, just seem to have the Midas touch - and, honestly, very few do.
 
WabeWalker said:
In particular, the elven archer looks interesting. I watched a video of the melee character posted at Gamespot, and it looked solid for an action RPG. The gameplay footage is just very enticing. This title has the potential to be a sleeper hit - I think that this has maybe been flying under the radar a bit.

Not saying it will be great. But there's potential here.

Respectfully, though, I have to disagree about the past being the past. Reputations are difficult to build - guys like Sid and Brian, who have proven themselves, to say the least, just seem to have the Midas touch - and, honestly, very few do.
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Fargo has killed his reputation by running Interplay into the ground. Prior to the Bard's Tale remake/reimagining the last game I can find he had a significant involvement on is Fallout and he is pretty much responsible for it being damn good. He led to the creation of a number of good games, but he also led to the creation of some really terrible shovelware during his time running Interplay.

Question Wabe: Did you have any clue who Brian Fargo was prior to learning about this game?
 
Derangel said:
Fargo has killed his reputation by running Interplay into the ground. Prior to the Bard's Tale remake/reimagining the last game I can find he had a significant involvement on is Fallout and he is pretty much responsible for it being damn good. He led to the creation of a number of good games, but he also led to the creation of some really terrible shovelware during his time running Interplay.

Question Wabe: Did you have any clue who Brian Fargo was prior to learning about this game?
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ROFL.
 
It could, by all means, be an alright game. I do think Fargo is bullshitting himself about its novelty.
 
Derangel said:
Fargo has killed his reputation by running Interplay into the ground. Prior to the Bard's Tale remake/reimagining the last game I can find he had a significant involvement on is Fallout and he is pretty much responsible for it being damn good. He led to the creation of a number of good games, but he also led to the creation of some really terrible shovelware during his time running Interplay.

Question Wabe: Did you have any clue who Brian Fargo was prior to learning about this game?
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I was an avid reader of Computer Gaming World in the 1980's, and the first two editors-in-chief, Russell Sipe, and Johnny Wilson, were huge admirers of Brian Fargo, and wrote about him extensively. Both those editors wanted the developers to be known to the public, and both said that one day developers would be as well known as rock stars. Johnny Wilson also introduced me to Sid Meier and to Brian Moriarty.

I'm puzzled by your question, and don't see why Plague is rolling on the floor with laughter, though by now I shouldn't be surprised. :rolleyes:
 
WabeWalker said:
I was an avid reader of Computer Gaming World in the 1980's, and the first two editors-in-chief, Russell Sipe, and Johnny Wilson, were huge admirers of Brian Fargo, and wrote about him extensively. Both those editors wanted the developers to be known to the public, and both said that one day developers would be as well known as rock stars. Johnny Wilson also introduced me to Sid Meier and to Brian Moriarty.

I'm puzzled by your question, and don't see why Plague is rolling on the floor with laughter, though by now I shouldn't be surprised. :rolleyes:
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CGW was great for that. I was an Interplay fanboy back in the day. I was pretty pissed at Fargo and Titus for killing the company. Fargo is a huge reason for Interplay's downfall. As an actual creative lead and hands on developer he had a ton of talent, but as the head of a company he failed hard. I'm worried about inXile so far of the games they have released most of is the same kind of shovelware that killed Interplay. One game was killed by Codemasters due seemingly to quality concerns. I haven't played their Bard's Tale game but I've heard a lot of mixed opinions. So while Hunted looks interesting there is a lot of reason to be concerned and its not like Bethesda Softworks cares too much about the quality of the games they publish.

I'm not sure why he is laughing either actually. I was asking because it seemed like you didn't know the problems he had and were crediting him with games he didn't actually develop.
 
Starcrossed said:
It could, by all means, be an alright game. I do think Fargo is bullshitting himself about its novelty.
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This was in reference to the two co-op players not being tethered, but being able to run free of each other. If that carries over into the single player as well then it will be a big step forward. In the vast majority of these games I just want to shove the other NPC out of the way.
 
Derangel said:
CGW was great for that. I was an Interplay fanboy back in the day. I was pretty pissed at Fargo and Titus for killing the company. Fargo is a huge reason for Interplay's downfall. As an actual creative lead and hands on developer he had a ton of talent, but as the head of a company he failed hard. I'm worried about inXile so far of the games they have released most of is the same kind of shovelware that killed Interplay. One game was killed by Codemasters due seemingly to quality concerns. I haven't played their Bard's Tale game but I've heard a lot of mixed opinions. So while Hunted looks interesting there is a lot of reason to be concerned and its not like Bethesda Softworks cares too much about the quality of the games they publish.

I'm not sure why he is laughing either actually. I was asking because it seemed like you didn't know the problems he had and were crediting him with games he didn't actually develop.
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He's known mostly for nurturing products into existence. I'm kind of baffled why that other person thinks Fargo has been mostly silent? He's always been vocal about game design. He and Chris Crawford, and also Richard Garriott (now there's a guy who is over-rated), were constantly in the press pontificating about the 'state of gaming'.
 
Bard's Tale has Biblical references and the backdrop of the story has a Christian slant, which I think would've turned me off to it. I have a hard time remembering it but vaguely remember believing it wasn't that great. Who knows, it was forever ago. Michael Cranford was the Lead Programmer and creative drive behind the project. I guess Fargo worked on the maps. Cranford went to high school with Fargo and supposedly brought up the idea of doing an RPG because of Wizardry. Who knows.
 
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WabeWalker said:
He's known mostly for nurturing products into existence. I'm kind of baffled why that other person thinks Fargo has been mostly silent? He's always been vocal about game design. He and Chris Crawford, and also Richard Garriott (now there's a guy who is over-rated), were constantly in the press pontificating about the 'state of gaming'.
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Fargo seemed a lot more talkative years ago before leaving Interplay. Well rather before everything went to hell between him and Titus.
 
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