HTPC Remote controls - finally bought a Harmony. My trials and trubulations

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y0bailey

Gawd
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Mar 31, 2003
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OK...I have been struggling to find the perfect HTPC remote/keyboard/mouse setup for years...I have made this thread to help put everything in one place and because I am bored.

Maybe people will read the thread and save themselves a bit of frustration/$/time.

My setup

1) TV - occasionally use the smartTV function for Amazon on-demand.
2) HTPC using Windows 7 - windows media center for guide/recording TV and XBMC for movies and add-ons.
3) Altec Lansing 2.1 setup

So relatively simple setup. I simply wanted the least number of remotes/devices to give me all the functioning I need. 80% of the HTPC use is straight MCE/XBMC, the other 20% is web surfing, etc....so I do need mouse/keyboard control.

What I tried:

1) plain old MCE remote, IR receiver, wireless mouse, wireless keyboard. Worked fine, could program the MCE remote to turn on TV and receiver. However the mouse/keyboard was annoying sitting on my bed stand...let alone using the mouse in bed in a weird manner. Could survive this way, but less ideal. Still had to use TV remote for smartTV functions.

2) enter the Gyration Air Music Remote. BEST REMOTE EVER. Why the hell they discontinued it I will never know. Programmable to learn TV/Receiver functions, backlit keys with the press of a button, and a very useable air control/gyration mouse built in. Just had a wireless keyboard tucked under the bed for when needed, but the air mouse was so good I could just On-Screen-Keyboard and survive most times. After about 5 years it started to fritz out and needed to be retired. They are so good they are like $120 used on Amazon....but I couldn't do it. Still had to use TV remote for SmartTV functions.

3) iPazzport 2.4GHz Mini Wireless Fly Air Mouse Keyboard with IR Remote. I thought this was going to be a great all in one setup. It was too good to be true. Learning functions for TV/Receiver were insufficient (IE pick one or the other). The keyboard was surprisingly good for the size. The mouse was less useable than the Gyration remote, but still not a deal breaker. The issue was the lack of any true MCE controls that were easy to get to. AKA I don't want to press Fn-1 to fast forward, I want to press fast forward. This remote only lasted a few days until it drove me insane.

4) Logitech Mini PC Entertainment Keyboard. Ordered this mistakenly thinking it was the Dinovo Mini. Turns out it wasn't. Most of the MCE specific functions didn't work so hot, so I sent it back. Immediately after I ordered it realized that even if I was sent the Dinovo Mini I would still need a universal remote to turn on TV/Receiver. So this may be a very good back-up plan in the future, provided you purchase the actual Dinovo Mini. Kinda bulky and awkward for "in bed" tv watching. Something nice about one handed simple operation.

5) Logitech Harmony 650 (the cheapest one) with an IR receiver. Currently in day 3 of this, and so far I am digging it. I am using it with a Logitech K400 (keyboard w/ touchpad) for the 20% of the time I need web/file renaming/etc. Initial setup was a pain in the butt because my IR receiver was a knock off and programming my HTPC in the Logitech software required using a weird device name (Ortek VRC-1100). Once setup, the remote functions well. They have addressed the delay/lag issues people were complaining about initially. TV/Receiver control is the most reliable (the other remotes seemed to take multiple tries to actually turn it on). I can probably live without the "air mouse" function of the gyration remote due to this being a better actual remote, having better back lighting, and being the best with the times I use my TV for Amazon streaming through the smart TV function (XBMC and MCE both struggle with Amazon...although someone has a plug-in for MCE in beta right now).

So there you have it. The quest for the best remote/mouse/keyboard setup continues, but this is where I am at. Feel free to post your setup...because I am sure there are plenty I haven't tried.
 
y0bailey said:
5) Logitech Harmony 650 (the cheapest one) with an IR receiver. Currently in day 3 of this, and so far I am digging it. I am using it with a Logitech K400 (keyboard w/ touchpad) for the 20% of the time I need web/file renaming/etc. Initial setup was a pain in the butt because my IR receiver was a knock off and programming my HTPC in the Logitech software required using a weird device name (Ortek VRC-1100). Once setup, the remote functions well. They have addressed the delay/lag issues people were complaining about initially. TV/Receiver control is the most reliable (the other remotes seemed to take multiple tries to actually turn it on). I can probably live without the "air mouse" function of the gyration remote due to this being a better actual remote, having better back lighting, and being the best with the times I use my TV for Amazon streaming through the smart TV function (XBMC and MCE both struggle with Amazon...although someone has a plug-in for MCE in beta right now).
Click to expand...

Is that truly the case during HTPC use as well? I have several of the Harmony remotes, and they all seem to have the delay / lag only when using it with an HTPC. It is annoying enough that they don't even get used anymore.

For example: If you are in the guide in WMC, and you press the down button repeatedly 20-30 times. Does the remote act instantly or is there a delay on processing the ir commands? If I do this with the actual Microsoft WMC remote, it functions perfectly and no delay is present. If I do this on my three (different) Harmony remotes, it results in a large delay while they carry out the commands. I have tried various tweaks in the software without success in the past, but it has been quite a while now.
 
Fleat said:
Is that truly the case during HTPC use as well? I have several of the Harmony remotes, and they all seem to have the delay / lag only when using it with an HTPC. It is annoying enough that they don't even get used anymore.

For example: If you are in the guide in WMC, and you press the down button repeatedly 20-30 times. Does the remote act instantly or is there a delay on processing the ir commands? If I do this with the actual Microsoft WMC remote, it functions perfectly and no delay is present. If I do this on my three (different) Harmony remotes, it results in a large delay while they carry out the commands. I have tried various tweaks in the software without success in the past, but it has been quite a while now.
Click to expand...

It is for mine. I have tried a few of the delay and repeat adjustments, but honestly at default it was near perfect. I would get the occasional double tap when I pressed it once, but messing with repeat adjustment fixed it.

That being said, it could be my knock off IR receiver being part of it. Don't have an official MCE receiver to test with. And yes all of this is in Win7 MCE using the guide/etc to browse channels.
 
y0bailey said:
It is for mine. I have tried a few of the delay and repeat adjustments, but honestly at default it was near perfect. I would get the occasional double tap when I pressed it once, but messing with repeat adjustment fixed it.

That being said, it could be my knock off IR receiver being part of it. Don't have an official MCE receiver to test with. And yes all of this is in Win7 MCE using the guide/etc to browse channels.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I will see if maybe an update is available for any of my remotes via the software and play around with it again. I would love to be able to use a universal remote with my HTPC's, but the Harmony's performance was always so poor.
 
Have you considered using a motherboard with a native IR header to help with the input lag?
 
Zangmonkey said:
Have you considered using a motherboard with a native IR header to help with the input lag?
Click to expand...

I have not gone down that road yet. I have a variety of receivers (Microsoft, Dell, HP, and iMedian), but they all connect via usb. I was contemplating doing a NUC build to replace my bedroom HTPC. I would be curious if the built in IR on that motherboard would resolve the issue.

The input lag issue with HTPC usage is fairly well known for the Harmony remotes, but I am wondering if it was fixed on a hardware level with some of the newer remotes.
 
I have the Harmony 650 and I still experience lots of input lag.

It could be the HP IR receiver I am using but this is the second one I am on and both had the same issue.
 
The Lurker said:
I have the Harmony 650 and I still experience lots of input lag.

It could be the HP IR receiver I am using but this is the second one I am on and both had the same issue.
Click to expand...

That is disappointing to hear. I don't intend to purchase any more Harmony products until that is fixed. Anyone know of any capable universal remotes (physical remotes) that don't have input lag with HTPC's?
 
I have the new harmony smart control. It has 0 lag after i tuned it. In the harmony programming, there are 3 different settings you need to tweak to make increase the responsiveness of the remote, while making sure transmissions are not getting dropped (i set all these values to 0):

Fix delay settings:

Power on:
The time your device needs to power on, warm up, and be ready to receive additional commands.

Inter-key:
The time your device needs before being ready to accept another command.

Inter-device:
The time your remote waits between sending commands to different devices within the same Activity.

Input:
The time your device needs to be ready to accept another command after switching inputs.
 
Fleat said:
That is disappointing to hear. I don't intend to purchase any more Harmony products until that is fixed. Anyone know of any capable universal remotes (physical remotes) that don't have input lag with HTPC's?
Click to expand...

No idea.

Another thing that drives me insane is that the fact that Logitech does not allow you to adjust the interkey delay or repeat rate (forgot what its called) on your own. As an example. Whenever I browse my TV's menu, hitting down on the remote will emit the down command twice and the tv skips two items. I literally have to press down and quickly cover the remote with my hand to get to where I need. This cannot be adjusted online or through the software. You need to call them. But if you are not covered by the 30 day post purchase let-us-help-you-get-setup warranty you need to pay them $30 per incident because only they can adjust it on their end.
 
The Lurker said:
No idea.

Another thing that drives me insane is that the fact that Logitech does not allow you to adjust the interkey delay or repeat rate (forgot what its called) on your own. As an example. Whenever I browse my TV's menu, hitting down on the remote will emit the down command twice and the tv skips two items. I literally have to press down and quickly cover the remote with my hand to get to where I need. This cannot be adjusted online or through the software. You need to call them. But if you are not covered by the 30 day post purchase let-us-help-you-get-setup warranty you need to pay them $30 per incident because only they can adjust it on their end.
Click to expand...

I am not sure this is true. I can adjust those values by holding down HELP for 5 seconds. It tells me how to do this in the myharmony setup when I am adjusting other delay settings. No phone calls needed.
 
y0bailey said:
I am not sure this is true. I can adjust those values by holding down HELP for 5 seconds. It tells me how to do this in the myharmony setup when I am adjusting other delay settings. No phone calls needed.
Click to expand...

That's the inter device delay. You can set how long it waits before sending commands to your devices when you hit one of the activity keys.
 
The Lurker said:
That's the inter device delay. You can set how long it waits before sending commands to your devices when you hit one of the activity keys.
Click to expand...

I can adjust that on my Logitech Harmony Smart Control. There is an option to change how many times to send a transmission, between 1-3.
 
af22 said:
Power on:
The time your device needs to power on, warm up, and be ready to receive additional commands.

Inter-key:
The time your device needs before being ready to accept another command.

Inter-device:
The time your remote waits between sending commands to different devices within the same Activity.

Input:
The time your device needs to be ready to accept another command after switching inputs.
Click to expand...
I had a cheapie harmony that replaced a very old higher end harmony sst659.
I found the cheap harmonies don't let you adjust these damn settings. They just disappear from the harmony website when I connect the other harmony

get the better harmony remotes, they let you adjust delays for zero lag
 
I have usede many remotes and wireless keyboards What works for me is the harmony 650 yes threr is a slight lag but its not bad. And you can adjust it out. They are complicated but once its set up right it works. Then I use a logitech K400. Absolutely the best HTPC keyboard there is
 
y0bailey said:
2) enter the Gyration Air Music Remote. BEST REMOTE EVER. Why the hell they discontinued it I will never know.
Click to expand...


I am in the same boat now with 3 devices TV+AMP+WMC. I use Microsoft WMC remote that is perfect fro WMC and it can switch on the TV but it cannot switch on AMP. If there would be another button on WMC remote for the switching on AMP.

Anyway, looking for remote now and that lag on Harmonies sounds like a deal-breaker for me. Do you still use Harmony remote? Are you satisfied?

Gyration Air Music Remote sounds like a great remote but on ebay I can find only used ones sold in US for 70 Euro peace + local european taxes that is on the expensive end.
 
SanFran.LAN said:
I had a cheapie harmony that replaced a very old higher end harmony sst659.
I found the cheap harmonies don't let you adjust these damn settings. They just disappear from the harmony website when I connect the other harmony

get the better harmony remotes, they let you adjust delays for zero lag
Click to expand...

My 650 is looking like it wants to die.

Does anyone know which harmoney models support user customize-able interkey delay?
 
I've been using a Harmony Remote 300 and 650 along with a K400 keyboard for about 2 years now on my HTPC now. Its been flawless for the most part. As far as the delay I had to mess with the timings on the harmony to get right.

But for me the delay gets bad when the battery is getting low, usually I change the batteries and all is good.

Currently I moved to antec fusion case, because I wanted a case with a built-in IR receiver. I've been using it now for a year now. Its been working great for me. The Imon stuff can be a pain at first especially if you use Powerdvd or Totalmedia Theatre with media center.
 
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