HTPC-based home theater setup for $300-$500

J

jkrafcik

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Hello all. First time poster, long time lurker.

I'm planning on building an HTPC-oriented home theater for my living room to be used as a PVR, music library, web console, and gaming system. I have an XBox that I'd also like to simultaneously hook up to the home theater. I'd like to spend somewhere between $300 to $500 on the audio portion of my home theater, $500 being an inviolable limit (I'll be buying all the equipment shortly after a relocation to high-rent Boston, so I'm trying to maximize bang for the buck).

I'm trying to concentrate a number of issues into a single, coherent thread that looks at all considerations and will generate some pretty good recommendations. I'm sure with all the hype HTPCs have been receiving over the last year, there's probably a number of other [H] readers in a similar situation.

1) Sound device in HTPC - High-end digital/analog or low-end digital?
I may go with a high-end audio card and using either a motherboard or sound card with some form of digital out, provided that the optical out isn't just a low-quality codec -> lossless signal. Is it possible to do both high quality and low/negligible cost by going digital out?

I am not sure if the system will be a Linux-based MythTV system or a WinXP-based SageTV system, so I would greatly prefer an audio device that is fairly Linux-compatible. I've had good luck with the Audigy line although I've never used digital out in Linux, and I know next to nothing about M-audio's Linux support. Which of these options has reliable Linux support? If Linux support pushes me away from an ideal situation here, I'd be willing to drop the idea and go WinXP.

2) Computer speakers or entry-level home theater package?
I don't think the Z680s are what I'm looking for (reviews suggest the bass is too boomy). It seems like both the Creative GigaWorks S700s and the Klipsch ProMedia Ultra 5.1s would be more than adequate for my audio needs; however, I'll want at least some way to connect both the HTPC and XBox to the system. I also hear that once you start spending a certain amount of money, the bang for the buck is a lot better when looking at home theater packages. I know next to nothing about home theater speakers, but if I went that route I would be purchasing all the components -- I have no stereo setup to speak of. Can anyone recommend any packages that may provide what I'm looking for at my price range, that would be competitive compared to the highest-end computer speakers? It probably couldn't be much more than $400 since I'd still need to buy the sound card/mobo for the HTPC.

3) Dolby/DTS decode by HTPC or stand-alone device?
Obviously, this one is highly dependent on the choices I'd make for the two previous sections. Are there any quality or Linux/WinXP compatibility issues I should be aware of with in-system decoding? I'll either be using an Antec TruePower PS or a Nexus-NX3000 power supply, so my in-system ground signals should be pretty clean, but it may be that a standalone decoder could make them even cleaner.

The major options I could think of that would tie all these together would be:

HTPC and XBox digital out -> Creative DDTS-100 or similar -> Computer speakers

XBox digital out -> HTPC digital in -> HTPC analog out -> Computer speakers

HTPC and XBox digital out -> HT Receiver -> HT speakers

Thanks for reading this and I'll be more than happy to clarify anything that's vague. I look forward to your suggestions!

Jon
 
Originally posted by jkrafcik
1) Sound device in HTPC - High-end digital/analog or low-end digital?
I may go with a high-end audio card and using either a motherboard or sound card with some form of digital out, provided that the optical out isn't just a low-quality codec -> lossless signal. Is it possible to do both high quality and low/negligible cost by going digital out?
Click to expand...
Analog I/O is best for this. Any DAC stages found on speaker sets/home theater kits of this caliber are going to be awful. Furthermore, your applications extend beyond pure DVD or music playback, and a digital passthrough can only pass AC3, DTS, and PCM streams (useful for DVDs and music, but doesn't encompass gaming, PVR duties, etc.).

I am not sure if the system will be a Linux-based MythTV system or a WinXP-based SageTV system, so I would greatly prefer an audio device that is fairly Linux-compatible. I've had good luck with the Audigy line although I've never used digital out in Linux, and I know next to nothing about M-audio's Linux support. Which of these options has reliable Linux support? If Linux support pushes me away from an ideal situation here, I'd be willing to drop the idea and go WinXP.
Click to expand...
I can't speak about Revo support in Linux, but I'll have you look at some possibilities here at AVS Forum if you're interested: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/search.php?action=showresults&searchid=699122&sortby=&sortorder=

2) Computer speakers or entry-level home theater package?
I don't think the Z680s are what I'm looking for (reviews suggest the bass is too boomy). It seems like both the Creative GigaWorks S700s and the Klipsch ProMedia Ultra 5.1s would be more than adequate for my audio needs; however, I'll want at least some way to connect both the HTPC and XBox to the system. I also hear that once you start spending a certain amount of money, the bang for the buck is a lot better when looking at home theater packages. I know next to nothing about home theater speakers, but if I went that route I would be purchasing all the components -- I have no stereo setup to speak of. Can anyone recommend any packages that may provide what I'm looking for at my price range, that would be competitive compared to the highest-end computer speakers? It probably couldn't be much more than $400 since I'd still need to buy the sound card/mobo for the HTPC.
Click to expand...
At your budget, it's going to be hard to do better than a good pair of computer speakers. I would recommend the Klipsch ProMedia 5.1 Ultras, but there are other options too.

3) Dolby/DTS decode by HTPC or stand-alone device?
Obviously, this one is highly dependent on the choices I'd make for the two previous sections. Are there any quality or Linux/WinXP compatibility issues I should be aware of with in-system decoding? I'll either be using an Antec TruePower PS or a Nexus-NX3000 power supply, so my in-system ground signals should be pretty clean, but it may be that a standalone decoder could make them even cleaner.
Click to expand...
Use the computer to do the decoding. It's basically a given if you're going to go with analog. There aren't any Windows XP issues with Dolby Digital/dts decoding, and there are several choices.

Basically, my recommendation is as follows:

Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1, using analog output to Klipsch ProMedia 5.1 Ultra. The XBox would connect to the Prodigy's coaxial input via an appropriate adapter for the XBox's proprietary connection. Decoding of all audio steams would occur at the computer, using your choice of decoder. The price of the soundcard and speakers should be right around $500.
 
Analog I/O is best for this. Any DAC stages found on speaker sets/home theater kits of this caliber are going to be awful. Furthermore, your applications extend beyond pure DVD or music playback, and a digital passthrough can only pass AC3, DTS, and PCM streams (useful for DVDs and music, but doesn't encompass gaming, PVR duties, etc.).
Click to expand...
Don't NVIDIA's MCP-D/MCP-T sound processors re-encode positional audio into AC3/DTS? If digital sound quality isn't up to snuff at my budget, then I'll definitely go with analog regardless.
At your budget, it's going to be hard to do better than a good pair of computer speakers. I would recommend the Klipsch ProMedia 5.1 Ultras, but there are other options too.
Click to expand...
What are the other options I should be looking at? Any reason why you lean towards the Ultras rather than the S700s? Quick PriceGrabber check shows the Ultras coming in at a $80 premium, but most of the reviews I've read seem to think their performance is fairly similar, with a number leaning more towards the GigaWorks set.

I'll definitely check out the Audiotrak card. How would you compare them to an Audigy 2? Does it include game-related features like EAX? I've never heard of Audiotrack before.

It's good to know that entry-level digital output is probably a bad way to go.

Thanks a lot!
Jon
 
"HTPC-based home theater setup for $300-$500 "

For that price range nothing comes close to beating the klipsch ultra 5.1 for movie reproduction.

The gigaworks set from creative has slightly better sats for most types of music (not all) and the sub is quite a bit weaker- boomier and does not extend nearly as deep and is not as defined.
 
Originally posted by jkrafcik
Don't NVIDIA's MCP-D/MCP-T sound processors re-encode positional audio into AC3/DTS? If digital sound quality isn't up to snuff at my budget, then I'll definitely go with analog regardless.
Click to expand...
Yes, but they have despicable analog output fidelity if that concerns you. Analog is just more flexible because you can play any sound on your computer without worrying about encoding it into a digital stream.

What are the other options I should be looking at? Any reason why you lean towards the Ultras rather than the S700s? Quick PriceGrabber check shows the Ultras coming in at a $80 premium, but most of the reviews I've read seem to think their performance is fairly similar, with a number leaning more towards the GigaWorks set.
Click to expand...
It's a matter of personal preference. You should listen to both sets of speakers, and judge from there. I don't think my personal opinion of the speakers will be exactly the same as yours'.

I'll definitely check out the Audiotrak card. How would you compare them to an Audigy 2? Does it include game-related features like EAX? I've never heard of Audiotrack before.

It's good to know that entry-level digital output is probably a bad way to go.

Thanks a lot!
Jon
Click to expand...
In terms of sound quality, the Prodigy 7.1 sounds as good or better than the Audigy 2 ZS, based on the specs and from reviews. The soundcard support EAX 1.0/2.0, A3D 1.0, Direct Sound 3D, and Sensaura, though these features are probably not hardware-accelerated. Audiotrak has a larger presence in the recording industry, which is why you haven't heard of them.

http://www.audiotrak.net/prodigy71.htm
 
Hmm, for that price, can you just mod the xbox to do some of these things? I have no experience in this area, but I have seen some x-boxes that run pretty much any software. My bias is that once you start getting into HT, you should get a reciever and speakers of some kind. A refurb onkyo SR500 from ecost.com and a pair of decent bokshelves, perhaps with a DIY subwoofer cobbled together...? Just some off-the-cuff ideas.

What sort of extra computer hardware have you got laying around that you can use? That can bring costs down.
 
I'm not very interested in modding my XBox -- it has no video capture capability that I know of, and even if it did it would be too slow to do real-time MPEG2 encode.

A DIY subwoofer isn't really an option. I don't have the time or the tools to put it together. If I can't put together a decent system without doing DIY speakers, then I'll definitely go the computer speaker route.

Jon
 
I would get the Logitech Z680's and make use of their built in decoder. Use an nForce2 motherboard with the coaxial digital out (Asus A7N8X Deluxe) and you can still plug in your XBOX's optical digital out at the same time.

nForce2 Coaxial SPDIF out + XBOX Optical SPDIF out -> Logitech Z680 speakers

All digital solution. Granted the decoder on the Z680's isn't Uber-hifi, but it does quite well for the price.
 
In regards to the last post;


"Computer speakers or entry-level home theater package?
I don't think the Z680s are what I'm looking for (reviews suggest the bass is too boomy). It seems like both the Creative GigaWorks S700s and the Klipsch ProMedia Ultra 5.1s would be more than adequate for my audio needs; however, I'll want at least some way to connect both the HTPC and XBox to the system."



So basically that rules out the 680s. Both the Gigaworks and the Ultras STOMP all over anything logitech has to offer in terms of quality. The ultra sub also goes significantly louder and deeper than that of the 680- not to mention a million times more defined.
 
I agree the 680's are not the be-all and end-all of hifi computer speakers. They're not absolutely terrible though. You should give them a listen.

A slightly more expensive option is getting the Klipsch Promedia 5.1 Ultras or Gigaworks S700's, but connecting your computer and XBOX to the Klipsch DD-5.1 preamp/decoder:
klipsch_dd51.jpg



nForce2 Motherboard -> DD-5.1
XBOX SPDIF out -> DD-5.1
DD-5.1 -> your own powered 5.1 speakers or 6 channel power amp.

It is a bit pricier to go this way, but I'm sure there are benefits!
 
Originally posted by SilverMK3
but I'm sure there are benefits!
Click to expand...
No, there aren't. Never mind the inferior sound reproduction abilities of the Z-680s over competing solutions; the Z-680's DAC/decoder circuitry is much worse than you'll find on most decent soundcards. Why settle for inferior, pricier sound that requires you to go with a SoundStorm based solution to maintain comparable flexibility for his needs?
 
The soundcard support EAX 1.0/2.0, A3D 1.0, Direct Sound 3D, and Sensaura, though these features are probably not hardware-accelerated.
Click to expand...

They're not, you're right. Recall however that even the Envy24 cards with hardware acceleration are not necessarily lighter on CPU usage than those with pure software, because so much depends on the driver.

I believe the Tech-Report had an examination of the DMX6Fire versus the Revo and found the Revo sometimes used less CPU in games than the DMX, this despite the hardware DirectSound support of the DMX's Envy24 chip.
 
Yes, that wasn't supposed to be Envy24 vs. Envy24HT commentary as much as it was Envy24(HT) vs. EMU10k series.
 
I went to BestBuy yesterday to see if I could compare the ProMedia Ultras to the GigaWorks S700s, but they didn't have the GigaWorks set. Their Klipsch set was also set up in just about the most retarded fashion ever (big sub on a high, thin shelf, two speakers right next to the rear of the sub). Where can I go to get a comparison of how the speakers might actually sound in my home?
 
Buy 'em both on a credit card, set them up in a sensible arrangement and return the one you don't like?
 
Originally posted by xonik
No, there aren't. Never mind the inferior sound reproduction abilities of the Z-680s over competing solutions; the Z-680's DAC/decoder circuitry is much worse than you'll find on most decent soundcards. Why settle for inferior, pricier sound that requires you to go with a SoundStorm based solution to maintain comparable flexibility for his needs?
Click to expand...

I was referring to the benefits of using the Klipsch DD-5.1 external preamp/processor to do your Dolby Digital or DTS processing. You can use it to process the DD streams from an nForce motherboard and the DD stream from your XBOX without swapping cables. It would then send the decoded signal to the speakers of your choice through discreet RCA outs.

The benefit of doing this rather than using the S/PDIF-in on your soundcard or motherboard is that there would be absolutely zero additional load on your processor or sound subsystem because it is an external solution. Of course you need the nForce2's DICE to do this, so it may or may-not be a valid option.

Yes it is an additional expense over speakers with a built-in decoder, but then you have the flexibility of using whatever analog 5.1 system you desire.

The fact is that you need a Dolby Digital decoder to get surround out of your XBOX. You can use your sound card's SPDIF-in, a home-theater receiver, speakers with a decoder, or this preamp.
 
I would rather sacrifice CPU utilization for the superior analog fidelity of a higher-end soundcard. It would also free me to use whatever motherboard I'd like, and avoid the clutter of another external box. For a serious home theater application, I might suggest differently, but at this budget, my recommendation still stands as stated.
 
You would get far better answers if you looked here:
http://myhtpc.net/forum/
http://htpcnews.com/forums/index.php?act=idx
http://htpcnews.com/forums/index.php?showforum=10
http://www.htpcnews.com/main.php?id=hardware
http://www.nforcershq.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=37&sid=0be22431a60979d3ddc4a70f6c10205e
http://www.avsforum.com/
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?forumid=88
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?forumid=3

Read this:
http://myhtpc.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2558
http://myhtpc.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5736
http://myhtpc.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4383
http://myhtpc.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5678
http://myhtpc.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1495
http://htpcnews.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1143

If you want I have a whole bunch of links to reviews of sound cards that I could post if you want.
 
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