HTPC + 8500GT + Forceware = Headache!

[TokyoShoe]

I have recent been venturing into the realm of a full fledged HTPC. Previously I was just using my spare Windows Vista computer as a basic DVD & Video Player. I housed my downloaded Doctor Who or Torchwood episodes on it, as well as DVD playback. Well I decided to upgrade it and start progressing it into a HiDef HTPC for use with my recently purchased 32" Toshiba HDTV. I've got it connected via DVI-to-HDMI Cable which gives me great clarity with nill interference and pretty much no picture loss (that I can identify). I bought an XBOX 360 HD-DVD Addon drive and plugged it in. Installed PowerDVD Ultra (that cost a pretty penny, too!), as well as Slysoft's AnyDVD (a useful app I already had, so I upgraded it to the HD version).

Then I upgraded the video card to a Geforce 8500GT based upon some recommendations here (thanks guys) as well as some research. And this is where things have kind of stuck ever since. I'm at a struggling point with the Nvidia Forceware Drivers, and seem to have a hard time finding a functional and QUALITY set of Forceware Drivers. The problem basically breaks down as follows, with there being two basic categories of Nvidia Forceware Drivers:

Category 1: These drivers will give me full HDCP Compliance at all HD Resolutions, but this horrible "Tearing Line" horizontal across the middle of the screen.

Category 2: These drivers don't show the "Tearing Line" and usually have great HD-DVD performance, but won't give me HDCP compliance in 1080i.

So basically as it breaks down, I either sacrifice picture quality through tearing, or through resolution restrictions. I have tried 162.01, 162.22, 163.11, 163.16, 163.44, & 165.01 Forceware Drivers. All of them fall into one of the above two categories. I have yet to find a set of drivers that will give me 1080i HDCP Compliance, WITHOUT the "Tearing Line". I really must say, I used to be a real proponent of Nvidia drivers.. but this is starting to sway me to the side of ATI. I don't want to have to RMA this card, I'd really rather just get it working. However at this point I can't even notice a difference with it's so called Hardware Acceleration enabled or disabled, and I can't even get a quality driver setup to cooperate with it for Windows Vista 32-bit.


I am crying out to the HardForums for help, I just cannot get this to work without massive amounts of more testing and frustrations. I'm looking to see if I can get any comments and suggestions on "Best Drivers" for this setup. If anyone can give some recommended driver versions and settings, PLEASE let me know!

 

[Stereodude]

Sorry I can't really help you... I recall reading that the 8500GT was still iffy for full Purevideo HD support though...

On another note I've been having my own private hell with an 8600GT under Windows XP. Turns out MSI can't make up their mind whether the card has HDCP compliance or not. Latest word is that is doesn't (and it doesn't work), so I'm sending it back.

So, you're clearly not alone in the nVidia problem camp, but I know the grass isn't any green on the red side of the fence...

 

[TokyoShoe]

Sorry I can't really help you... I recall reading that the 8500GT was still iffy for full Purevideo HD support though...

On another note I've been having my own private hell with an 8600GT under Windows XP. Turns out MSI can't make up their mind whether the card has HDCP compliance or not. Latest word is that is doesn't (and it doesn't work), so I'm sending it back.

So, you're clearly not alone...

Yeah I suspect I will end up having to go ATI for this one. Blargh!

 

[CrimandEvil]

Yeah I suspect I will end up having to go ATI for this one. Blargh!

Good luck with that, ATI still hasn't gotten their drivers together enough for me to go with one of their cards (for the most part going DVI/HDMI from an ATI card is either a PITA or effortless, it's really up to what TV you have. If you have to make manual adjustments to the timings then you're pretty much screwed with an ATI card).

That said I have no issue with my 8500GT, Vista and the latest drivers but I'm also not using it with an HD DVD or Blue Ray drive right now (it's the Gigabyte card which is suppose to have HDCP).

 

[w1retap]

I've been telling your guys over and over again, for the least amount of headaches..

- You can't rely on AnyDVD for compliance to avoid HDCP
- Get a HDCP certified graphics card AND a HDCP certified monitor supporting 1080p
- I strongly recommend a newer nvidia 8 series card with HDCP support, then use the newest official drivers from nvidia's site.
- Vista with Nvidia's VP2 decoding on the 8500/8600 cards work best for HDDVD and Blu-ray playback, forget XP at the moment. Also, PowerDVD Ultra is the best playback software with hardware acceleration support. Keep it up to date.

Not to say your experience will be perfectly smooth, but if you follow those 4 guidelines, it should go well. I've helped over a dozen people on HDbits, and they've had success. On the subject of ATI, I'm not even going to touch that nightmare.

 

[TokyoShoe]

I've been telling your guys over and over again, for the least amount of headaches..

- You can't rely on AnyDVD for compliance to avoid HDCP
- Get a HDCP certified graphics card AND a HDCP certified monitor supporting 1080p
- I strongly recommend a newer nvidia 8 series card with HDCP support, then use the newest official drivers from nvidia's site.
- Vista with Nvidia's VP2 decoding on the 8500/8600 cards work best for HDDVD and Blu-ray playback, forget XP at the moment. Also, PowerDVD Ultra is the best playback software with hardware acceleration support. Keep it up to date.

Not to say your experience will be perfectly smooth, but if you follow those 4 guidelines, it should go well. I've helped over a dozen people on HDbits, and they've had success. On the subject of ATI, I'm not even going to touch that nightmare.

I actually have an 8500GT installed, which IS an HDCP certified Card. 163.16 drivers (at present they are giving me best image quality but no HDCP 1080i). My monitor is 720p / 1080i certified HDCP. I'm actually not USING AnyDVD for the sake of busting the HDCP Path. I use AnyDVD for busting region encoding on regular DVD's, as well as some of the "Workarounds" it offers on HD-DVD & Blu-ray disks (plus DVD's).

Some drivers will give me 1080i as HDCP, but have horrible DVD Playback quality. Other drivers won't give me 1080i and have it seen as HDCP Compliant, so I have to use 720p.. but those drivers give me GREAT playback quality in DVD & HD-DVD.

So.. I've GOT HDCP compliant hardware path for both 1080i & 720p. I even have some of the drivers tested see all of this path. The rest of the drivers I try only see half of this HDCP path, however.

 

[Stereodude]

I've been telling your guys over and over again, for the least amount of headaches..

- You can't rely on AnyDVD for compliance to avoid HDCP
- Get a HDCP certified graphics card AND a HDCP certified monitor supporting 1080p
- I strongly recommend a newer nvidia 8 series card with HDCP support, then use the newest official drivers from nvidia's site.
- Vista with Nvidia's VP2 decoding on the 8500/8600 cards work best for HDDVD and Blu-ray playback, forget XP at the moment. Also, PowerDVD Ultra is the best playback software with hardware acceleration support. Keep it up to date.

Not to say your experience will be perfectly smooth, but if you follow those 4 guidelines, it should go well. I've helped over a dozen people on HDbits, and they've had success. On the subject of ATI, I'm not even going to touch that nightmare.

I understand 1. I did 2 and 3, and it still didn't work. Why, because MSI didn't have HDCP on a card they originally advertised as such. So, the card is going back, and I'll try again. XP does work with the some of the beta drivers though like 163.16.

 

[CrimandEvil]

Keep in mind that just because you have a 8500GT doesn't mean you have a HDCP complaint video card. HDCP is entirely optional for the 8500/8600GT cards, it's mandatory on the 8600GTS.

I actually have an 8500GT installed, which IS an HDCP certified Card. 163.16 drivers (at present they are giving me best image quality but no HDCP 1080i). My monitor is 720p / 1080i certified HDCP. I'm actually not USING AnyDVD for the sake of busting the HDCP Path. I use AnyDVD for busting region encoding on regular DVD's, as well as some of the "Workarounds" it offers on HD-DVD & Blu-ray disks (plus DVD's).

Some drivers will give me 1080i as HDCP, but have horrible DVD Playback quality. Other drivers won't give me 1080i and have it seen as HDCP Compliant, so I have to use 720p.. but those drivers give me GREAT playback quality in DVD & HD-DVD.

So.. I've GOT HDCP compliant hardware path for both 1080i & 720p. I even have some of the drivers tested see all of this path. The rest of the drivers I try only see half of this HDCP path, however.

 

[TokyoShoe]

Keep in mind that just because you have a 8500GT doesn't mean you have a HDCP complaint video card. HDCP is entirely optional for the 8500/8600GT cards, it's mandatory on the 8600GTS.

Are you sure? Based upon what Nvidia says is why I bought the card.
http://www.nvidia.com/object/geforce_8500_features.html
Since there is only one 8500 in the series (the 8500GT), this isn't a situation of mixed tech specs with another card.

From the 8500 Series Technical Specs:

HDCP Capable:
Designed to meet the output protection management (HDCP) and security specifications of the Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD formats, allowing the playback of encrypted movie content on PCs when connected to HDCP-compliant displays. Requires other HDCP-compatible components

Are you stating that Nvidia's specs are not accurate?

 

[w1retap]

Some of th 8500GT's have HDCP, some don't. It has to say on the box or product manufacturers page.

 

[TokyoShoe]

The page on Newegg that had my video card lists it as HDCP compatible. I checked eVGA directly, and they don't list HDCP anywhere .. on ANY of their cards. They just list "HDTV Interface" and "Nvidia TV Encoder". No place on their website lists HDCP on their video cards. I checked all 8500's, 8600's, 8800's... not listed.

Does that mean all their video cards are missing HDCP compatibility?

 

[w1retap]

What is the model number of the card and the newegg product page?

 

[TokyoShoe]

What is the model number of the card and the newegg product page?

Product is an EVGA 256-P2-N741-LR GeForce 8500GT 256MB 126-bit GDDR2 PCI-Express x16 HDCP READY
Newegg Product Page
Actually states HDCP Ready on the title as well as the product description. This isn't mentioned anywhere on the EVGA page for it. I have an email out to EVGA to see if this card does infact support HDCP or not.

 

[w1retap]

Ok, well if your graphics card and monitor are both HDCP ready, then you should be good to go hardware-wise. My guess now is driver support. All I can say is hang in there. Everyone sucks at making drivers in this day and age.

 

[TokyoShoe]

Ok, well if your graphics card and monitor are both HDCP ready, then you should be good to go hardware-wise. My guess now is driver support. All I can say is hang in there. Everyone sucks at making drivers in this day and age.

That is pretty much the conclusion that i have come to, myself. The drivers suck, basically.
Some versions of Forceware drivers, I can get 720p w/ great picture quality. Other driver versions, I can get 1080i but the picture quality is HORRIBLE or not seen as "HDCP Compliant" (just that resolution). It's driving me NUTS!

 

[JBark]

What model Toshiba do you have? I'm assuming since it has HDCP support, that it's an LCD, and that it's not a 1080p panel? If so, you're probably better off just using 720p anyway. My 1366x768 LCD looks like absolute garbage if I try to give it a 1080i signal over DVI or VGA.

 

[TokyoShoe]

What model Toshiba do you have? I'm assuming since it has HDCP support, that it's an LCD, and that it's not a 1080p panel? If so, you're probably better off just using 720p anyway.

I can't recall the model number off hand as I am at work, however I do know that it does NOT support 1080p... only 1080i and below. I can get a nice crisp 720p picture on that HD looks just fine on. I CAN get 1080i on certain Forceware driver revisions, but as I said with those drivers installed.. PowerDVD sees 720p as HDCP but 1080i as non-compliant HDCP (which makes NO sense to me).

Right now I am just having to admit defeat on 1080i due to driver complications, and have been trying to muddle through finding a version of FFDSHOW that will cooperate in Windows Vista 32-bit.

 

[w1retap]

The native resolution of your tv must be either 1366x768 or 1280x720. You are better off running 720p.

 

[TokyoShoe]

The native resolution of your tv must be either 1366x768 or 1280x720. You are better off running 720p.

I believe it is 1366x768 , but honestly 1280x720 looks real nice on it. 1080i, everything is supertiny yes.. but legible otherwise.

 

[huynhc]

i concur with running it at 720p. i have a 42" panny plasma and i run it at 720p with my 8600gts and it is fantastic. Honestly, anything below 50" and if you're not sitting right in front of the screen, you wont notice much of a difference or at all. Hope that helps with you're problem. Also you can try installing the hotfix located on the nvidia page that supposedly helps with performance. it is located on the drivers download page if you read carefully....not sure what the hotfix does exactly but it is supposew to improve performance under vista.