HTC J Butterfly

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CHANG3D

Supreme [H]ardness
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HTC just announcing the 1080p 5" phone.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57533910-94/htc-j-butterfly-5-inch-smartphone-destined-for-japan/

http://www.techradar.com/news/phone...-unveiled-with-full-hd-5-inch-display-1104984

http://www.htc.com/jp/smartphones/htl21/#specs

Important Specs:
1080p 5" SuperLCD3
16GB Internal Storage with MicroSD
2GB of RAM
Snapdragon S4 Pro (Cortex A15-based Quad-core with Adreno 320 graphics and embedded radios)
8MP back camera and 2.1MP front camera
71 x 143 x 9.1 mm and 140g
2020 mAh battery (most likely non-removable due to the feature below)
Waterproof (IPX5 standard)

HTC-J-Butterfly-HTL21-3V-red.png

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HTC-J-Butterfly-HTL21-3V-black.png
 
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Why does HTC always use the tiniest batteries in their phones? That thing is an spec monster otherwise, altho I'm not sure if it's competing with phones or phablets like the note.
 
Psych2l said:
theverge_560.jpg
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Holy smokes...

But I am curious how Sharp's IGZO and LG IPS 1080p 5" looks in comparison. I'm assuming IGZO being best due to each pixel being independently backlit.

Battery wise: if it lasts all day, i'm fine with it.
 
Might be time to sell my Galaxy Note! :p

Phone looks mighty impressive to say the least...1080p 5" screen? Damn!
 
Cool so we cant get it here =]


BTW I think 1080p is a great place for a phone to be, means MHL should output perfectly to most of our monitors. Also makes me wonder what other amazing phones the japanese and koreans get that are absent in north america.
 
Looks like iPhone will be beat on almost all fronts by Christmas. Not bad.
 
ItsNewTechnology said:
I'm pretty sure the HTC J uses LG's 5" 440ppi screen. The LG smartphone panel has the exact same ppi and screen real estate.
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pretty sure LG does not manufacture any "SuperLCD" panels. LG is IPS only. LG has a 1080p 5" panel too hence the same ppi.

ItsNewTechnology said:
And can the human eye even perceive beyond ~320ppi anyway?
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scientifically speaking, what the human eye can perceive also has to do with brightness. At a typical screen brightness at max, 100 ppi is about normal. Disregarding brightness, the human eye has been recorded to be able to perceive beyond 600 ppi. So this whole "retina" display thing is just marketing, although the average human doesn't really care to concentrate on something smaller than about 300 ppi.
 
SuperLCD3 panels on the Butterflly is supplied by Sharp and JDI - says HTC

Mystery solved.
 
Just an FYI on the specs, Snapdragon S4 is not Cortex A15-based. It's Krait. There are many differences, but the chief advertised difference is in DMIPS per cycle. Some specific numbers.

ARM11 - 1.25 DMIPS
Cortex A8 - 2.0
Scorpion - 2.1
Cortex A9 - 2.5
Krait - 3.3
Cortex A15 - 3.5

Basically, Qualcomm designs their own SOCs independent of ARM, but uses their ARMv7 instruction set. Qualcomm got Scorpion out the door around the same time as Cortex A-8 and beat it in DMIPS. Krait came out earlier than A15, but is comparatively slower, but not by much.

So yes, S4 Pro is an outstanding ship, but it is Krait-based, not A15.

Some light reading on it: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4940/qualcomm-new-snapdragon-s4-msm8960-krait-architecture
 
ItsNewTechnology said:
Something tells me that this HTC phone wont sell well like all the other HTC phones. Like people were amazed when the HTC One X came out with the Super LCD 2 screen, but their market share actually decreased.
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That's because Samsung went out there with a hype campaign and assassinated HTC with outrageous claims. Somehow everyone wants a removable battery when Apple has embedded it for so long, and that Samsung's GS3 performs better than the One X when they're using the same SoC in USA.
 
CHANG3D said:
and that Samsung's GS3 performs better than the One X when they're using the same SoC in USA.
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That's the key right there. Most people don't pick up on the fact that the phones use the same hardware. But let's pretend for a second that Samsung meant their international SGS3 (quad-core A9-based CPU).

We all know that most mobile applications are single-threaded, and multi-tasking in these devices is very limited. So, you're not going to make use of multiple-cores like you would on a desktop. Some estimates put desktop quad-core CPU usage per core at 100-75-50-25 under semi-ideal conditions. Let's apply that to the SGS3 and the One X.

The One X uses the S4, dual-core, at 1.5ghz. At 3.3 DMIPS per cycle, that's roughly 4,950 MIPS per core. At 100-75 usage, that's 8,663 MIPS.

The SGS3 GT-i9300 uses a Quad-Core Exynos 4 at 1.4ghz, At. 2.5 DMIPS per clock cycle, that's 3,500 MIPS per core. Under 100-75-50-25 usage, that's 8,750 MIPS.

So, under ideal usage, the SGS3 squeaks by the One X in this fake scenario. However, in real world usage, Krait (One X) runs circles around A9 (SGS3 international). Not sure on the GPU though, I stopped following the mobile GPUs about a year ago and generally stopped caring. I'll care to research it more when I want to upgrade my current device.
 
The Snapdragon S4 is Krait. It's not just Krait-based, it IS Krait. Krait is Cortex A15-based (and Cortex A9-based). Qualcomm used parts of the ARMv7 instruction set (which what a Cortex-A15 uses) and mixed it with whatever they like.
 
CHANG3D said:
The Snapdragon S4 is Krait. It's not just Krait-based, it IS Krait. Krait is Cortex A15-based (and Cortex A9-based). Qualcomm used parts of the ARMv7 instruction set (which what a Cortex-A15 uses) and mixed it with whatever they like.
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Please read the link that I provided. It goes into detail on the subject. Krait and A15 are not the same, though they share many similarities.

EDIT: And here's a LONG but interesting read on the subject.

http://semiaccurate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6185

EDIT2: Some clarification on my Krait-based comment.

Phones don't use individual CPUs, they use a SOC (system on a chip). This is akin to referring to your motherboard and all connected components as a product. The SOC is made up of the CPU, GPU, often a radio, and usually other components. The Snapdragon S4 is Krait-based because the CPU used in the S4 is Krait. That is what I meant by the comment.

As for Krait vs. A15, both are based on the ARMv7 instruction set, just as Pentium and Athlon were based on x86 instruction sets. However, the MPCore is different. Krait and A15 are very different beasts with a lot of similarities, just as Core i5 and Llano are very different, with a lot of similarities.
 
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1080p on a phone? :O
It is time to sell my Milestone xD

Oppo (Chinese brand) will release a 1080p phone too, good to review and compare.
 
cool screen but htc continues to shoot itself in the foot with the battery
 
Medion said:
Please read the link that I provided. It goes into detail on the subject. Krait and A15 are not the same, though they share many similarities.

EDIT: And here's a LONG but interesting read on the subject.

http://semiaccurate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6185

EDIT2: Some clarification on my Krait-based comment.

Phones don't use individual CPUs, they use a SOC (system on a chip). This is akin to referring to your motherboard and all connected components as a product. The SOC is made up of the CPU, GPU, often a radio, and usually other components. The Snapdragon S4 is Krait-based because the CPU used in the S4 is Krait. That is what I meant by the comment.

As for Krait vs. A15, both are based on the ARMv7 instruction set, just as Pentium and Athlon were based on x86 instruction sets. However, the MPCore is different. Krait and A15 are very different beasts with a lot of similarities, just as Core i5 and Llano are very different, with a lot of similarities.
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Did Qualcomm take the design and use them as they choose or came up with something completely by themselves without taking a peep at the Cortex-A15 (pre-release design) is tough to say. What is most likely to have happened is Qualcomm dissected the Cortex-A15 and added it to their design. If Intel gives AMD their Haswell design, wouldn't AMD dissect it? If AMD gives the trinity design to Intel, Intel wouldn't base their graphics design on it? To say Qualcomm didn't base their Krait off Cortex-A15 is an flash of ignorance. And plus it so much easier to say that Krait is Cortex-A15-based than to say they are using parts of the ARMv7 instruction set. Now the question is if Apple's A6 is Cortex-A15 based?
 
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That's a beautiful phone. I've always liked HTC's designs and overall built quality in terms of that in hand feel but I don't think I could get past a non-removable battery, even if it is waterproof.
 
CHANG3D said:
the fact is arm's cortex-A15 design was given along with the instruction set. Did Qualcomm take the design and use them as they choose or came up with something completely by themselves without taking a peep at the Cortex-A15 is tough to say. What is most likely to have happened is Qualcomm dissected the Cortex-A15 and added it to their design. If Intel gives AMD their Haswell design, wouldn't AMD dissect it? If AMD gives the trinity design to Intel, Intel wouldn't base their graphics design on it? To say Qualcomm didn't base their Krait off Cortex-A15 is an flash of ignorance. And plus it so much easier to say that Krait is Cortex-A15 based than to say they are using parts of the ARMv7 instruction set. Now the question is is Apple's A6 Cortex-A15 based?
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Nope. Time travel hasn't been invented yet. Krait was finished significantly ahead of A15. Anyway, I can see you are more concered with "being right" than actual facts, so once again debate over. Get in your obligagory last word as with before so that you can feel better about yourself. I posted facts and references, so anyone interested in this topic can see the factual information.
 
Medion said:
Nope. Time travel hasn't been invented yet. Krait was finished significantly ahead of A15.
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Would it make you feel any better to say it's Cortex-A15-architecturally-similar rather than Cortex-A15-based? So what is the difference in saying based on ARM's Cortex-A15 chip architecture and Cortex-A15 based?

This is just a ridiculous attempt made by you to argue something out of nothing aka trolling. I've just got to stop feeding you.
 
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CHANG3D said:
Somehow everyone wants a removable battery when Apple has embedded it for so long, and that Samsung's GS3 performs better than the One X when they're using the same SoC in USA.
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+1 I don't really understand Apple's insistence that the battery be sealed in, but for myself and many others, its a dealbreaker....

Also, really wish HTC would get with the times and slim down Sense and put in 2GB of RAM like Samsung did... really, realy makes a difference when multitasking (especially with Chrome being the amazing memory hog that it is)
 
Building the battery in is about planned obsolescence and thin design. It probably shaves the thickness of 1 or 2 sheets of plastic off the phone. I guess that matters when everyone if fighting over 1 mm. But on top of that you get to force people to upgrade their phone every 2 years. The sad thing about phones is that they are not modular and not possible to upgrade in any sort of way so sometimes you are forced to deal with a sealed battery if you want a particular feature. This is what I really love about samsung right now is that they are still doing removable batteries even though they could get away with building them in because their main competition in apple and HTC are building them in. I used to like HTC phones but they are starting to turn me off.
 
ItsNewTechnology said:
I'm pretty sure the HTC J uses LG's 5" 440ppi screen. The LG smartphone panel has the exact same ppi and screen real estate.

Or it's just a coincidence that HTC used the exact same size and ppi count on their screens.

Where did HTC get their screen from is the main question?

And can the human eye even perceive beyond ~320ppi anyway?

And I don't expect HTC to launch this smartphone anytime in the USA soon because HTC sucks at logistics and organizing contracts with US carriers.

But I don't like the design of the phone and generally hate HTC Sense with all the cartoonish aspects and bloatware so I doubt I'm going to give HTC another chance.

And ewww. Beats Audio. Ewww.
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are you a 12 year old girl?
 
CHANG3D said:
That's because Samsung went out there with a hype campaign and assassinated HTC with outrageous claims. Somehow everyone wants a removable battery when Apple has embedded it for so long, and that Samsung's GS3 performs better than the One X when they're using the same SoC in USA.
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Reasons I opted for S3 over One X:

Battery
microSD
Sense is more invasive and annoying than TouchWiz, IMO
Amount of rear camera protrusion on the One X is obnoxious

I was slightly concerned about the S3 screen being noticeably inferior, but I actually love it after a few weeks of use and have no regrets.

Perhaps HTC needs to learn that Android users won't accept "Apple does it too!" as an excuse for missing features.
 
Samsung assassinated HTC? Am in a spy conspiracy novel now? Did you conveniently forget how -

- The One X removed support for sdcards and removable batteries, with a pathetic reason for both
- It had broken multitasking (i.e. it didn't multitask), which turned into huge news on every site, and which HTC claimed was a 'feature'
- Beats audio is glorified and not very good equalizer
- the UI has the annoying menu button on a lot of apps (not totally HTC's fault as they simply followed Googles design guidelines, but it looks ugly)

There are plenty of reasons the OneX was not a huge success and it simply boils down to the fact that the S3 is a much better phone.
 
MrCrispy said:
Samsung assassinated HTC? Am in a spy conspiracy novel now? Did you conveniently forget how -

- The One X removed support for sdcards and removable batteries, with a pathetic reason for both
- It had broken multitasking (i.e. it didn't multitask), which turned into huge news on every site, and which HTC claimed was a 'feature'
- Beats audio is glorified and not very good equalizer
- the UI has the annoying menu button on a lot of apps (not totally HTC's fault as they simply followed Googles design guidelines, but it looks ugly)

There are plenty of reasons the OneX was not a huge success and it simply boils down to the fact that the S3 is a much better phone.
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Point by point response:
-HTC One X international version has 32 GB internal memory. US version has 16 GB. 16 GB is enough for most people. And with the international version at 32 GB, there is practically no reason to demand a MicroSD slot. And the future is moving towards cloud. While I myself would have love 32 GB in the US version, but I suppose it's the US carriers wanting to make Apple look good... The Sprint variant has microSD btw.

Embedded battery mean thinner phone and one less moving part which improves reliability. Does HTC One X have a more reliable design? You bet!

-The supposed "broken" multitasking were "corrected" with the Sense 4.1 update when Sense was made faster and smaller. The method in which you "break" multitasking cannot be typically achieved by normal usage except in a few cases, but it was still a problem. This issue was then completely overblown. The biggest problem was when an app like Chrome Beta browser demands a whole lot of memory. But since Chrome is in Beta, I'll blame that on Google! HTC reserved the memory so your basic phone functionality will run smooth. Yes, that's the "feature." Not too many other apps or games seem to break the One X.

-Beats? Yes, that's HTC marketing hype. But somehow the Galaxy S3 has "superior" sound when they're comparing the US versions. Both US version use the same integrated DAC from Qualcomm. The international GS3 has a Wolfson DAC which does produced superior sound. And Samsung doesn't provide a decent equalizer out of the box. Despite its short-comings, Beats is still better than the standard. I would rather use PowerAMP or Winamp Pro (which I do use Winamp Pro).

-Yeah, blame Google! :D

-------------

Aside from that, the One X has a superior camera with discreet photo processor and a true 720p SuperLCD2.

So I call the GS3 and the One X pretty even. The hate on One X is just so overblown!
 
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CHANG3D said:
Point by point response:
-HTC One X international version has 32 GB internal memory. US version has 16 GB. 16 GB is enough for most people. And with the international version at 32 GB, there is practically no reason to demand a MicroSD slot. And the future is moving towards cloud. While I myself would have love 32 GB in the US version, but I suppose it's the US carriers wanting to make Apple look good...

Embedded battery mean thinner phone and one less moving part which improves reliability. Does HTC One X have a more reliable design? You bet!

-The supposed "broken" multitasking were "corrected" with the Sense 4.1 update when Sense was made faster and smaller. The method in which you "break" multitasking cannot be typically achieved by normal usage except in a few cases, but it was still a problem. This issue was then completely overblown. The biggest problem was when an app like Chrome Beta browser demands a whole lot of memory. But since Chrome is in Beta, I'll blame that on Google! HTC reserved the memory so your basic phone functionality will run smooth. Yes, that's the "feature." Not too many other apps or games seem to break the One X.

-Beats? Yes, that's HTC marketing hype. But somehow the Galaxy S3 has "superior" sound when they're comparing the US versions. Both US version use the same integrated DAC from Qualcomm. The international GS3 has a Wolfson DAC which does produced superior sound. And Samsung doesn't provide a decent equalizer out of the box. Despite its short-comings, Beats is still better than the standard. I would rather use PowerAMP or Winamp Pro (which I do use Winamp Pro).

-Yeah, blame Google! :D

-------------

Aside from that, the One X has a superior camera with discreet photo processor and a true 720p SuperLCD2.

So I call the GS3 and the One X pretty even. The hate on One X is just so overblown!
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In general I agree with this, I never understood the hate for HTC, they make excellent hardware and do have better radios than Samsung (but then again, who doesn't :)). And I say this as a former Evo 4G and current GS3 owner.

w.r.t the multitasking - it was broken for more than Chrome and there are plenty of videos that show this.

My opinion of why the OneX failed - Sense has way too many bad memories (even though I quite like a lot of things it does), there was hardly any hype about it, and Samsung's Galaxy line has a very loyal following, thanks to the awesome GS2, along with their much better marketing.
 
CHANG3D said:
Point by point response:
-HTC One X international version has 32 GB internal memory. US version has 16 GB. 16 GB is enough for most people. And with the international version at 32 GB, there is practically no reason to demand a MicroSD slot. And the future is moving towards cloud.
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lol, seriously?

16GB is a laughable amount of storage for a smartphone, with 32GB barely qualifying as entry level, and "the cloud" wont do shit for 99% of the people in the world that don't have complete 4G coverage with unlimited data.....
 
The One X is also only available on one carrier in the US, and that carrier locked the bootloader (dealbreaker for a ton of people, especially if you don't like Sense). The One S on T-mobile has a terrible screen (otherwise seems to be a great phone). Not sure how the Evo 4G LTE's doing, but it's better than the One X in a lot of respects (microSD, camera button, kickstand), though the design isn't as attractive.
 
brucedeluxe169 said:
lol, seriously?

16GB is a laughable amount of storage for a smartphone, with 32GB barely qualifying as entry level
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A lot of people bought 8GB and 16GB iPhones.

Also depends on your usage. I have a 16GB Nexus 7 and over the last 3 months only used up about half of the 16 gigs. Granted, I rarely watch movies and only have about 10 songs on the thing.
 
brucedeluxe169 said:
lol, seriously?

16GB is a laughable amount of storage for a smartphone, with 32GB barely qualifying as entry level, and "the cloud" wont do shit for 99% of the people in the world that don't have complete 4G coverage with unlimited data.....
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why would anyone buy a phone today without ready access to at least 3 Mbps through cellular or wifi?
 
CHANG3D said:
why would anyone buy a phone today without ready access to at least 3 Mbps through cellular or wifi?
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1. Coverage.
2. Caps.
3. To actually answer the question, price. A lot of people still buy flip phones and stuff. I still use a basic slider as my phone.
 
I'm using about 21GB on my phone, but that's only because "I can." I have 16GB internal and a 32GB MicroSDHC. If I only had 16Gb to work with, I could, but I do prefer 32GB just in case.
 
CHANG3D said:
why would anyone buy a phone today without ready access to at least 3 Mbps through cellular or wifi?
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because its very expensive? because even streaming 16GB of content over cellular will kill any cap? because coverage is nowhere near universal? because some of us work in buildings that murder wireless signals? commute underground?

holy crap, I could go on and on... the cloud isn't a substitute for local storage ... no way in hell...
 
Medion said:
I'm using about 21GB on my phone, but that's only because "I can." I have 16GB internal and a 32GB MicroSDHC. If I only had 16Gb to work with, I could, but I do prefer 32GB just in case.
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I have about 10gigs on my phone and 2 chips (each 32 gig) for their intended media purposes. I use them quite a lot and would hate the idea of upgrading my phone only to get less in the long run.

Cloud isn't a good option for media, maybe pictures or documents but those don't take up a lot of space anyways.
 
Trimlock said:
I have about 10gigs on my phone and 2 chips (each 32 gig) for their intended media purposes. I use them quite a lot and would hate the idea of upgrading my phone only to get less in the long run.

Cloud isn't a good option for media, maybe pictures or documents but those don't take up a lot of space anyways.
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Agreed. The things you'd want to have accessible via the cloud on the phone don't take up much space. The things that do, especially movies, will destroy your data cap (which many, likely most have).

8/16GB are fine options for casual and mainstream users. But the keyword there is "option." They either need to also include 32/64GB options for power/media users like many of us, as Apple does, or they need to support expandable media. This is why I've avoided the Nexus S and Galaxy Nexus. It's why I will likely avoid the next Nexus.

And I'm not knocking this HTC. It's a fine phone, just not for me.
 
physically its probably a good bit larger than my GNexus, simply because of the physical buttons.
Much as that screen looks sexy, I'll pass (but probably get an LGNexus.)
 
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