• Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
    Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.

How to set up a backup system?

A

a!!!!1

Weaksauce
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
95
Hi everyone, I currently have about 12TB of stuff on my PC spread across 5 HDD's and 1 SSD which is the boot drive. I would like to set up a backup system incase anything fails or someone breaks in and steals my tower, or there's a fire or a flood, etc. not that I expect it, just want to be on the safe side.

I have a fireproof safe in the guest room which also has ethernet ports built into it, so I was thinking about building a backup array of drives inside the safe, then plugging it directly into my local network and having it backup automatically each night when I'm asleep.

Or an alternative would be getting the drive setup out manually, plugging it into the main tower and just backing up via USB or something once a week, because I'm not sure if transferring that much stuff over the network will be too slow.

I am also very new to backup systems and I'm not really sure what to look for, or even what they are called. I have heard of NAS systems but I don't think that's what I need, because I'm going to keep all the files on the drives in the main tower anyway so I don't need the extra NAS drives backing up to each other. But I don't really know because I've never looked into this before. Also, would I need to buy drives of the same size as the ones I currently have, for example if I had three 3TB drives I wanted to backup, would I need three 3TB backup drives, or could I have two 5TB backup drives? Can anyone point me in the right direction or give some recommendations?
 
Last edited:
Sense this all in your main computer I would use something like crashplan, backblaze, etc which are online backup services that are rather cheap. If you still want local I wouldn't build a server in the fireproof safe as that complicates things. Rather just keep a few external HDD and rotate them out over time (like a week or month) storing them in the safe but powered off. I can't imagine most of your files changing that often. Hell you can even use the crashplan utility for doing the backup without paying for the service.

A NAS is just Network Attached Storage, so just a file server. I use my little file server to store all my media and most files, I only have a 1TB storage drive in my main system so everything else goes to the NAS/Server. You would still need to backup your NAS but you could also have all your computers backup to it as a central repository then just have that backup elsewhere, such as online.

You only need the same size drives if you are making a bit for bit copy but most backups are not like that (you would do that to a drive if you wanted to clone it). All you need is enough storage to keep all the files you want secure.

Also when it comes to backups there are a few commonly held ideals. Backup to more than one location is the biggest, so for example a local backup for quick access and off site incase something goes wrong like a fire or flood. There is also the idea of more than one kind of media but that starts to get a bit much for most home users.

Honestly I recommend the online services to most people just because they usually just work, I do more but thats just me (kinda paranoid here). I like crashplan because they offer the most control for online backups, like being able to encrypt everything with your own key so even they can not open it, without going to more extreme measures. Its up to you to what you want to do but just remember more is better, both in copies and locations.
 
I currently use Crashplan online backups for about 100GB of my most important files (business stuff, a few family photos and docs, etc). But my upload speed is only 1.5mbps which was the fastest they offered in my area, so uploading 12TB would be a nightmare.

If you still want local I wouldn't build a server in the fireproof safe as that complicates things. Rather just keep a few external HDD and rotate them out over time (like a week or month) storing them in the safe but powered off. I can't imagine most of your files changing that often.
Click to expand...

This sounds like the simplest solution. Would I be able to link all the external drives together in some kind of enclosure, so that I only need to plug in 1 thing, and it will backup everything? (compared to plugging in a couple of drives and backing some stuff up, then plugging in the next couple of drives and backing some more stuff up, etc, just seems like a hassle).

Would you not recommend a NAS?
 
I use acronis personally. I do a base backup then incremental so I always have a base build and incremental saves. If your data doesn't change a lot incremental saves are great. You can do that to a network drive or through a VPN.

I am going to redo my set up once i get a new computer to this so maybe this gives you an idea of a set up that might work for you

1. First you make a base build
2. back up daily for 7-14 Days
3. keep 8 weeks
4. keep monthly builds

Here is a chart
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ic5qo5heceqq5xz/NAS Set up.png?dl=0

This can be done in acronis plus acronis is pretty feature rich and really user friendly compared to other options
 
Soo... a fireproof safe with network port? Does it also have power and ventilation? Makes it pretty unlikely to be fireproof if it does, and much more likely to cook your drives if not. Best bet is backup to drives and store in the safe. You can use a NAS and just remove the drives, or just get a hotswap bay for your PC and backup that way, then put the HDDs in the safe.
 
Okay, people are stumbling over just saying it.

But what you want is not just a plan for "a" backup.

You want is a play that gives you multiple, layered backups.

Your primary backup should be local. This way, if your computer goes *poof*, you have everything only 1-10 Gbps away. This should keep you safe from pretty much anything but fire/tornado/burglary.

On that note, set up an online backup from your on-site backup device. Unlimited can be expensive, depending on the service, though Backblaze is actually really cheap for unlimited.

Now you CAN choose to back up EVERYTHING. But, be aware that it's going to take time (and GOBS OF BANDWIDTH) to push up multiple terabytes of data on a 1-200 Mbps connection. And if you're going with Backblaze and need a whole-data restore, DEFINITELY go for the "E-mail you a hard drive" option, as you could be WEEKS recovering multi-terabyte backups, even on something like Google Fiber.

If you don't trust online backups, get yourself a safety deposit box at a local bank. Buy yourself a trio of NAS devices (like the WDC MyBook). And swap them out on a weekly/bi-weekly/monthly basis. Then, trot the most current one to the bank and drop it in the box. This way you have a live, in-play backup, a hot spare if the device fails and an off-site backup that's relatively current.
 
Thanks for all the suggestions so far.

Due to this mediocre upload speed, I don't think backing up my entire machine online is really feasible. (I do backup my extremely important files online, but that's it at the moment)

Do you think my best bet for backing up my less important files would be to get a NAS system, and then just plug it into my desktop via USB once a week and back everything up, and then store it in the safe when it's not in use?
 
a!!!!1 said:
I currently use Crashplan online backups for about 100GB of my most important files (business stuff, a few family photos and docs, etc). But my upload speed is only 1.5mbps which was the fastest they offered in my area, so uploading 12TB would be a nightmare.

This sounds like the simplest solution. Would I be able to link all the external drives together in some kind of enclosure, so that I only need to plug in 1 thing, and it will backup everything? (compared to plugging in a couple of drives and backing some stuff up, then plugging in the next couple of drives and backing some more stuff up, etc, just seems like a hassle).

Would you not recommend a NAS?
Click to expand...

Ouch thats slow, I can understand why you don't want to do that with 12tb, though don't they let you do a seed backup by sending them a hard drive(s) with a backup already on it??

12tb is a lot of space, you may have to do more than one external hard drive or you could use internal drives with an external dock and some hard drive cases. Really your goal is to safely copy all 12tb of files to one or more drives (copies could be good too) and have some sort of rotation with another set of drives so there is always a backup in the fireproof safe and one set connected to your computer maintaining a back up. Using incremental backup could help save time with transfer though you will need more space if you want to maintain a difference over time, like the changes over a month.

As for a NAS I would say get one but thats just me. With a NAS you can probably store that 12tb of files (or at least most of it) on the NAS and just access it over the network. Have your computers back up to the NAS and backup the NAS as well. But it may not be for you as it is another device you have to manage and maintain plus there is a cost. But when you start saving Tbs of files it makes more sense. Though keep in mind when people are specing for a NAS the rule of thumb is to figure out how much space you will need in a year and double it, for you that could be about 24tb or so and thats a lot (though that can be built up over time with upgrades).

You have to figure out what you need to back up, what could be replaced if you lost it, and how long do you want to keep the backup. For example, if part of that 12tb are games installs from steam, do you really need to back those up?? Also do you want to keep changes made to files, every hour, for a day, week, month?? Does it matter to you whether you keep changes at all?? Its your data, you have to figure out how much you want to protect it. For example family pictures, tax data, and work/school stuff I keep in 5 different place at different sites (+1 local), my movie collection only has one copy off site, steam games have no backup (except for the few that don't sync saves on games I care about). I keep changes of the important stuff for every hour for 4 hours back, then a weekly copy for 2 weeks and a monthly copy for a year. For the movies I don't keep any changes sense if I change something in a movie file its on purpose.

Hope this is helping and not becoming overwhelming, there is a lot that can be done and it really comes down to how much you want to do.

Edit: took to long to reply:
a NAS is network only, if you use USB its an external hard drive.
 
Syncing over network is fast and easy as long as you already have a base build. Incremental builds are never that big of a deal unless you have some crazy amount of changes. I am assuming your 12TB is mostly static. Any good NAS will allow you to connect via ehternet, usb, eSATA, and something else. If you do Ethernet you could put the NAS outside in your garage or a shed so in case a fire it will be safe. You just simply need to lay a network cable to the garage or shed.
 
SomeGuy133 said:
Syncing over network is fast and easy as long as you already have a base build. Incremental builds are never that big of a deal unless you have some crazy amount of changes. I am assuming your 12TB is mostly static. Any good NAS will allow you to connect via ehternet, usb, eSATA, and something else. If you do Ethernet you could put the NAS outside in your garage or a shed so in case a fire it will be safe. You just simply need to lay a network cable to the garage or shed.
Click to expand...

Yeah most of it is static, I might change a few GB or less each day. So I could get the NAS and then plug it into my desktop to run the initial backup, and then after that just sync over the network?

As for a NAS I would say get one but thats just me. With a NAS you can probably store that 12tb of files (or at least most of it) on the NAS and just access it over the network. Have your computers back up to the NAS and backup the NAS as well. But it may not be for you as it is another device you have to manage and maintain plus there is a cost. But when you start saving Tbs of files it makes more sense. Though keep in mind when people are specing for a NAS the rule of thumb is to figure out how much space you will need in a year and double it, for you that could be about 24tb or so and thats a lot (though that can be built up over time with upgrades).

You have to figure out what you need to back up, what could be replaced if you lost it, and how long do you want to keep the backup. For example, if part of that 12tb are games installs from steam, do you really need to back those up?? Also do you want to keep changes made to files, every hour, for a day, week, month?? Does it matter to you whether you keep changes at all?? Its your data, you have to figure out how much you want to protect it. For example family pictures, tax data, and work/school stuff I keep in 5 different place at different sites (+1 local), my movie collection only has one copy off site, steam games have no backup (except for the few that don't sync saves on games I care about). I keep changes of the important stuff for every hour for 4 hours back, then a weekly copy for 2 weeks and a monthly copy for a year. For the movies I don't keep any changes sense if I change something in a movie file its on purpose.

Hope this is helping and not becoming overwhelming, there is a lot that can be done and it really comes down to how much you want to do.

Edit: took to long to reply:
a NAS is network only, if you use USB its an external hard drive.
Click to expand...

I don't really need any of the extra backups for keeping changes, just the latest copy would be fine.

So based on your reply and the reply above, it sounds like a good solution would be to use some kind of NAS build that has a USB connection as well, yeah?

Also as someone mentioned above, if I store a NAS inside a safe it might get too hot in there so it doesn't seem like a good idea to keep it turned on while inside. So if I'm just going to open up the safe and take the thing out to run a weekly backup, do I still want a "NAS" or should I just get a huge external hard drive? How would I go about putting a few drives inside a single enclosure and "linking them together" so I can backup to them as a whole and then they can decide which files go on which drive?
 
a!!!!1 said:
Yeah most of it is static, I might change a few GB or less each day. So I could get the NAS and then plug it into my desktop to run the initial backup, and then after that just sync over the network?



I don't really need any of the extra backups for keeping changes, just the latest copy would be fine.

So based on your reply and the reply above, it sounds like a good solution would be to use some kind of NAS build that has a USB connection as well, yeah?

Also as someone mentioned above, if I store a NAS inside a safe it might get too hot in there so it doesn't seem like a good idea to keep it turned on while inside. So if I'm just going to open up the safe and take the thing out to run a weekly backup, do I still want a "NAS" or should I just get a huge external hard drive? How would I go about putting a few drives inside a single enclosure and "linking them together" so I can backup to them as a whole and then they can decide which files go on which drive?
Click to expand...

You can buy a NAS from like QNAP that has a huge amount of ports or you cna build your own from an actual computer. It is all up to you and your needs. I would get one with USB 3.0, Ethernet, and eSATA at minimum. eSATA wold be the fastest.

The only way to tell if the safe would get too hot is to try it out. Now that I think about it...it probably would be too hot but figure out a way to test it.

Also that shed/garage option is always valid.

You will need some sort of array of drives to have the ability to sync your whole computer or set up multiple separate backups. Your computer with 12TB, is that all in one logical drive? (if thats the correct term) Or is it in C D E F G Y drives? If its all in C and D and you have several drives in some sort of raid then you need to have an equally if not larger drive (array of several drives).

I hope that makes sense sorry trying to go quickly. Busy day.


EDIT: if you had the money a NAS with SSDs might be cool enough to stay in the safe since their idle uses virtually no power.
 
Chas said:
Also note:

If you want an added modicum of safety for your local backups, you can set up a room or build an enclosure that, while ventilated, is still somewhat fire-resistant.

Fire rated drywall: http://www.homedepot.com/s/fire%20rated%20drywall?NCNI-5

Fire resistant insulation: http://www.homedepot.com/s/fire%20resistant%20insulation?NCNI-5

You'll need to look up fire resistant lumber in your area though. Availability can be sketchy.
Click to expand...
He can always use metal studs.
http://www.homedepot.com/b/Building-Materials-Drywall-Drywall-Steel-Studs-Framing/N-5yc1vZbuim
 
SomeGuy133 said:
You will need some sort of array of drives to have the ability to sync your whole computer or set up multiple separate backups. Your computer with 12TB, is that all in one logical drive? (if thats the correct term) Or is it in C D E F G Y drives? If its all in C and D and you have several drives in some sort of raid then you need to have an equally if not larger drive (array of several drives).
Click to expand...

No, it's all split up. So for example, C is the boot drive, D is family videos, E is business files, etc.
 
If you plan to store the NAS in the fireproof safe offline then just get a big external HDD (or more than one, perhaps one per drive you have??) and just rotate it out. I would not recommend running it in the fireproof safe even if it could get cool enough, any holes you need for wires are going to make it lose its fireproofing and the home fireproof safes are already not the best. Honestly if you want to avoid fire/water/nature you have to go off site with your backups.

Someone recommend Bittorrent Sync which is a good tool but sense v2 where they put artifical limits on it I would say go with syncthing. Though not as polished its at least open source and will always be free.

I would say get a couple of large external HDDs that cover enough space x2. Keep one set in the safe and have another set backing up the data live (or close enough using an appropriate tool). Every week or two exchange the set of drives. This would provide you with 1) and offline and online backup 2) KISS (Keep it simple stupid) and 3) hopefully safe from any disaster. If you can swing it at some point add an off site backup as well.
 
what you can do is use a NAS and Acronis like I said and once a week just take the latest build and store it in the safe.

Acronis saves each time period as a separate Acronis type file. Keep a base build in the safe with an updated daily build.

This is what it looks like. I daily back up my app data folder because of game saves, logs, and windows note pad.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1eh47lu07f1hpkq/app data roaming daily backup image.png?dl=0
 
One backup of video files is probably sufficient. For personal and business files, a redundant onsite and offsite/cloud backup is a good idea. You can get esata enclosures for 2-4 HDDs for quite cheap, if you don't plan on backing up your data over your network. Backing up over gigabit or usb3 is slower but still an option. Look into backup styles; full, incremental and supplemental, and choose a method and frequency that suits your data changes.
 
Alright so here is what I've found, please tell me if this seems good for my goal:

This enclosure: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817198061

2 of these drives: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...804&cm_re=wd_6tb_green-_-22-236-797-_-Product

I'm only going to get 2 drives for now, but the enclosure holds 4 incase I want to add more drives in the future.

So I will just keep the entire thing in the safe, and then once a week I'll take it out and run some backup software that will send over any files that have been changed.

Here are my 2 questions:
1) Will the enclosure "combine" the drives, so when I plug it in I'll see a single 12TB thing, instead of 2 separate 6TB external drives? Combining them seems like it would be best, so I can just back everything up without worrying about what's on what drive, right?
2) What backup software should I use? A couple people recommended Crashplan, but since I already use Crashplan for online backups of my work files, I don't know if it would make it complicated also using the same software for this backup.
 
Chas said:
Also note:

If you want an added modicum of safety for your local backups, you can set up a room or build an enclosure that, while ventilated, is still somewhat fire-resistant.

Fire rated drywall: http://www.homedepot.com/s/fire%20rated%20drywall?NCNI-5

Fire resistant insulation: http://www.homedepot.com/s/fire%20resistant%20insulation?NCNI-5

You'll need to look up fire resistant lumber in your area though. Availability can be sketchy.
Click to expand...


wra18th said:
He can always use metal studs.
http://www.homedepot.com/b/Building-Materials-Drywall-Drywall-Steel-Studs-Framing/N-5yc1vZbuim
Click to expand...

I would wager those metal studs would provide less fire protection than standard 2x4's, particularly when using fire-resistant drywall and insulation. I don't even know if you'd need fire resistant 2x4's. Drywall isn't a bad fire protection, especially when properly sealed. It's what is used in most cheap fire safes.

Metal is pretty weak when it comes to fire protection, and heavy lumber can usually take a real beating prior to collapse in a structure (think lodges, very large laminated beams, etc). The metal will also conduct the heat right through it, which the wood will not do so much.

Not really the direction OP is going, but if you're looking to build a fire-resistive room, food for thought.
 
a!!!!1 said:
Alright so here is what I've found, please tell me if this seems good for my goal:

This enclosure: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817198061

2 of these drives: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...804&cm_re=wd_6tb_green-_-22-236-797-_-Product

I'm only going to get 2 drives for now, but the enclosure holds 4 incase I want to add more drives in the future.

So I will just keep the entire thing in the safe, and then once a week I'll take it out and run some backup software that will send over any files that have been changed.

Here are my 2 questions:
1) Will the enclosure "combine" the drives, so when I plug it in I'll see a single 12TB thing, instead of 2 separate 6TB external drives? Combining them seems like it would be best, so I can just back everything up without worrying about what's on what drive, right?
2) What backup software should I use? A couple people recommended Crashplan, but since I already use Crashplan for online backups of my work files, I don't know if it would make it complicated also using the same software for this backup.
Click to expand...

This won't be safe in a safe. If your house burns down, your backups will almost certainly be toast (literally). Determine how many USB hard drives you need to store everything, then double that number and buy that. Keep one set offsite and one onsite. The onsite set should only be powered up to run a backup, and should be carried to the offsite location and swapped.

Never have everything in one location at one time.

Also, if you have a large amount of data that doesn't change much, you can send Crashplan hard drives.
http://support.code42.com/CrashPlan/Latest/Backup/Seeded_Backup
 
kumquat said:
This won't be safe in a safe. If your house burns down, your backups will almost certainly be toast (literally). Determine how many USB hard drives you need to store everything, then double that number and buy that. Keep one set offsite and one onsite. The onsite set should only be powered up to run a backup, and should be carried to the offsite location and swapped.
Click to expand...

This really sounds like overkill for the type of data I'm backing up (family photos/videos, random apps, etc, nothing of life or death importance) and I already have my most important stuff being backed up daily to CrashPlan servers. I just want something simple to backup the rest of my stuff, without spending a boatload of time/money.

What do you mean by "if your house burns down, your backups will almost certainly be toast"? We spent over a thousand dollars on this "fireproof safe", if it turns out it's actually not fireproof then that would be ridiculous.
 
All of those fireproof safes are fireproof, it just largely depends on the amount of fire damage it can take, the size and insurance applied.
 
In a horrible twist of fate, I went down to the store to buy some backup drives to get started on this, and I when I got back I saw that one of my internal drives had just failed. If it had only lasted 1 day longer, everything would've been saved.

It was a Seagate though so I guess I shouldn't be too surprised.
 
Is your fireproof safe UL rated? A lot are not, and they will have no guarantee of providing real protection--just manufacturer claims.

Second, most fireproof safes are rated against paper, which means they keep the inside of the safe below 450 degrees in a fire. This is not a good condition for hard drives.

Unless of course you've bought a UL rated media safe, then it should be OK, as long as the fire doesn't last longer than the safe ratings.
 
iroc409 said:
Is your fireproof safe UL rated? A lot are not, and they will have no guarantee of providing real protection--just manufacturer claims.

Second, most fireproof safes are rated against paper, which means they keep the inside of the safe below 450 degrees in a fire. This is not a good condition for hard drives.

Unless of course you've bought a UL rated media safe, then it should be OK, as long as the fire doesn't last longer than the safe ratings.
Click to expand...

Just checked, and it does appear to be. There is a sticker inside the door that says UL, and then another that says Intertex Verified fire resistance 1200 F for 60 minutes.
 
That's a pretty decent rating! Now it depends on what it is rated for. I have a UL-rated cabinet, but it's also just for paper. I put one of the small Sentry chests inside it, and store hard drives in it. In theory, it should work, and some of the insert "media chests" are basically just that.

The nice thing about a UL rating is that it's actually tested by them, and not just what a manufacturer claims. 60 minutes is pretty decent, and that temperature would *probably* sustain a fully involved structure for the hour.
 
iroc409 said:
That's a pretty decent rating! Now it depends on what it is rated for.
Click to expand...

How would you find out what it's rated for?

When I purchased it I specifically told the dealer that I would be storing hard drives and electronics in it, and they said it would be fine. But like you said, that's just the manufacturer's claim, so it would be good if there's actually a way to check it or look at some feedback from other customers who have actually had theirs exposed to fire
 
Safes are usually rated to indicate the temperature at which the interior may get after a certain amount of time in a given external environment. If the safe is rated to stay under 450 degrees (paper safe) after 60 minutes in a fire, then it's probably not overly useful for data safety.
 
IOSafe has some products that might be up your alley. Granted, I get you already bought a fire safe, but at least with iosafe, they're designed to withstand fires and other types of disasters depending on the model. They also feature a data recovery warantee if all goes wrong.

https://iosafe.com/
 
dreamnid said:
IOSafe has some products that might be up your alley. Granted, I get you already bought a fire safe, but at least with iosafe, they're designed to withstand fires and other types of disasters depending on the model. They also feature a data recovery warantee if all goes wrong.

https://iosafe.com/
Click to expand...

That looks really cool. I would consider it if I hadn't already bought other stuff. Also, it looks like their standard $600 model only has 2 drive slots, and if you want more you have to get the $2,000 model. Do you use one of these yourself?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top