![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
-
Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.
How to properly ground yourself?
- Thread starter makshim
- Start date
Kakyoin said:
Same. I make sure that I touch a metal object before working on anything (sometimes the case it self is fine), and make sure I work on a counter or something that doesn't generate static.
If you do use an anti-static band, i think you connect it to anything that is grounded to the ground in your electrical system. You can use the PSU option, but you can also connect it to the ground socket on your power point (this is only if you know what you are doing; if you don't you risk electrocution, and I personally don't recommend it).
RancidWAnnaRIot
EspantaPajaros
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2004
- Messages
- 11,033
yup.. what the others said.. i don't use a band.. if you are ever forces to work over carpet.. just don't move too much
BillLeeLee
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2003
- Messages
- 13,486
I actually do most of my comp work on carpet, since this entire house is carpeted...
I unplug the PSU though, then I touch the case to ground myself, and always make sure a part of my body's in contact with the case.
Most of the time, I just use my strap. Haven't fried anything yet.
I unplug the PSU though, then I touch the case to ground myself, and always make sure a part of my body's in contact with the case.
Most of the time, I just use my strap. Haven't fried anything yet.
BillLeeLee
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2003
- Messages
- 13,486
On ATX systems, the 5V line stays on if the PSU's still plugged in. Sometimes, say, if you pull out a PCI card or insert one, having the PSU plugged in and the 5V still live could damage the card.
So I just like "better safe than sorry"
So I just like "better safe than sorry"
I
Ice Czar
Guest
I unplug the main Power Connector to the mobo, because there is voltage running through it even when the computer is off (POW_on +5VBS, which deals with standby wake on LAN ect) but leave the PSU plugged in, then I have a central ground point for the pad and wriststrap connected to an outlet tester that easily tells me if the ground is good, and then I try to keep the environment humidifed (pretty important here, since its a high desert plateau, and running teh AC dries the air so much)
My basic ESD Rant (which is half of the ESD & Electromigration Rant In the Power Supplies FAQ
http://www.ewh.ieee.org/r10/bombay/news2/story11.htm
"According to (not so) recent studies conducted by the AT & T Bell labs, 25 % of all component failures today are related to E.S.D and out of all defective components that arrive 50%are damaged by E.S.D. the annual damage due to these failures is estimated at 25 Billion dollars"
An Integrated Circuit (IC) consists of several transistors fabricated on one chip. Due to the advances in L.S.I and V.L.S.I thousands of transistors are crowded on a single chip. By decreasing the thickness of the gate oxides and interconnecting lines the manufacturers hope to achieve much higher speeds at very low power consumption. But under these conditions if the Electrostatic Discharge passes through an IC and the current that results is not diverted or diminished by a suitable protective mechanism, the discharge may raise the temperature of the junction inside the component to melting point which will cause damage to the junction or interconnecting lines. Since surface mount devices are smaller than conventional ICs they are even more susceptible to E.S.D damage. E.S.D causes two main types of failures: -
1. Immediate failure where the effect can be readily seen by the equipment manufacturer.
2. Delayed failure where the device is damaged only upto the point where it may pass quality control tests, but wears out sooner than its rated time
http://www.esda.org/esdbasics1.htm
Table 2
Examples of Static Generation
Typical Voltage Levels
Means of Generation .........10-25% RH ......65-90% RH
Walking across carpet ......,35,000V ...........1,500V
Walking across vinyl tile ....12,000V ............250V
Worker at bench ................6,000V .............100V
Chair with urethane foam ..18,000V ...........1,500V
ESD DamageHow Devices Fail
Electrostatic damage to electronic devices can occur at any point from manufacture to field service. Damage results from handling the devices in uncontrolled surroundings or when poor ESD control practices are used. Generally damage is classified as either a catastrophic failure or a latent defect.
Catastrophic Failure
When an electronic device is exposed to an ESD event it may no longer function. The ESD event may have caused a metal melt, junction breakdown, or oxide failure. The device's circuitry is permanently damaged causing the device fail. Such failures usually can be detected when the device is tested before shipment. If the ESD event occurs after test, the damage will go undetected until the device fails in operation.
Latent Defect
A latent defect, on the other hand, is more difficult to identify. A device that is exposed to an ESD event may be partially degraded, yet continue to perform its intended function. However, the operating life of the device may be reduced dramatically. A product or system incorporating devices with latent defects may experience premature failure after the user places them in service. Such failures are usually costly to repair and in some applications may create personnel hazards.
It is relatively easy with the proper equipment to confirm that a device has experienced catastrophic failure. Basic performance tests will substantiate device damage. However, latent defects are extremely difficult to prove or detect using current technology, especially after the device is assembled into a finished product.
Static Electricity - Electrostatic Discharge (ESD)
"Most books or articles indicate that a spark can't be seen until the voltage on your body reaches between 450 to 750 VDC. Others indicate that they are very hard to notice until it reaches 1000 VDC. For most people, to feel a shock from a static electricity discharge the voltage is between 2,000-4,000V. A 0.5mm arch of static electricity carries approximately 2850V."
Semiconductor Electromigration In-Depth
Ground that mat, wriststrap and if possible humidify the environment
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ESD Susceptibility Analysis
"ESD votages sufficient to damage semiconductor devices are often lower than the threshold of human sensory perception, making a person unaware that a static discharge has taken place"
thats the basic proceedure most employ, its best if you do that like every other move, and be aware of exactly how much RH (Relative Humidity) influences Static Discharge
Taking great care to never touch any chip or lead, handling only the PCB, perferably by the edges.
the other point of my post is that while the immediate cause and effect relationship of catastrophic failure, using the "typical" proceedure is low...
This board is filled every day with people who have developed RAM errors, data corruption problems (generally RAM) ect, Most of which can be traced to either poor power regulation (Transient Response) of the PSU, or ESD
Latent defects caused by ESD in any IC (and they are just everywhere from HDDs to NIC, CPU, RAM ect) are massively underated as a cause of problems. If you have eliminated power fluctuation problems (PSU voltage regulation and power conditioning) and still experience a component failure, odds are that it was a latent defect, either from installation, or one that wasnt caught during manufacturing.
the membership displays a cavalier attitude towards this issue for 2 reasons, RMA's are pretty easy, and they rarely employ the same component for its fully rated lifespan, upgrading before the eventual premature failure becomes appearent.
But
a latent defect, not only effects the lifespan, it degrades the performance of the IC as well, and is often the difference between the "Golden Chip" benchmark leader, the norm, and "why cant I get the same OC as this guy? Ive got the same components"
My basic ESD Rant (which is half of the ESD & Electromigration Rant In the Power Supplies FAQ
http://www.ewh.ieee.org/r10/bombay/news2/story11.htm
"According to (not so) recent studies conducted by the AT & T Bell labs, 25 % of all component failures today are related to E.S.D and out of all defective components that arrive 50%are damaged by E.S.D. the annual damage due to these failures is estimated at 25 Billion dollars"
An Integrated Circuit (IC) consists of several transistors fabricated on one chip. Due to the advances in L.S.I and V.L.S.I thousands of transistors are crowded on a single chip. By decreasing the thickness of the gate oxides and interconnecting lines the manufacturers hope to achieve much higher speeds at very low power consumption. But under these conditions if the Electrostatic Discharge passes through an IC and the current that results is not diverted or diminished by a suitable protective mechanism, the discharge may raise the temperature of the junction inside the component to melting point which will cause damage to the junction or interconnecting lines. Since surface mount devices are smaller than conventional ICs they are even more susceptible to E.S.D damage. E.S.D causes two main types of failures: -
1. Immediate failure where the effect can be readily seen by the equipment manufacturer.
2. Delayed failure where the device is damaged only upto the point where it may pass quality control tests, but wears out sooner than its rated time
http://www.esda.org/esdbasics1.htm
Table 2
Examples of Static Generation
Typical Voltage Levels
Means of Generation .........10-25% RH ......65-90% RH
Walking across carpet ......,35,000V ...........1,500V
Walking across vinyl tile ....12,000V ............250V
Worker at bench ................6,000V .............100V
Chair with urethane foam ..18,000V ...........1,500V
ESD DamageHow Devices Fail
Electrostatic damage to electronic devices can occur at any point from manufacture to field service. Damage results from handling the devices in uncontrolled surroundings or when poor ESD control practices are used. Generally damage is classified as either a catastrophic failure or a latent defect.
Catastrophic Failure
When an electronic device is exposed to an ESD event it may no longer function. The ESD event may have caused a metal melt, junction breakdown, or oxide failure. The device's circuitry is permanently damaged causing the device fail. Such failures usually can be detected when the device is tested before shipment. If the ESD event occurs after test, the damage will go undetected until the device fails in operation.
Latent Defect
A latent defect, on the other hand, is more difficult to identify. A device that is exposed to an ESD event may be partially degraded, yet continue to perform its intended function. However, the operating life of the device may be reduced dramatically. A product or system incorporating devices with latent defects may experience premature failure after the user places them in service. Such failures are usually costly to repair and in some applications may create personnel hazards.
It is relatively easy with the proper equipment to confirm that a device has experienced catastrophic failure. Basic performance tests will substantiate device damage. However, latent defects are extremely difficult to prove or detect using current technology, especially after the device is assembled into a finished product.
Static Electricity - Electrostatic Discharge (ESD)
"Most books or articles indicate that a spark can't be seen until the voltage on your body reaches between 450 to 750 VDC. Others indicate that they are very hard to notice until it reaches 1000 VDC. For most people, to feel a shock from a static electricity discharge the voltage is between 2,000-4,000V. A 0.5mm arch of static electricity carries approximately 2850V."
Semiconductor Electromigration In-Depth
Ground that mat, wriststrap and if possible humidify the environment
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ESD Susceptibility Analysis
"ESD votages sufficient to damage semiconductor devices are often lower than the threshold of human sensory perception, making a person unaware that a static discharge has taken place"
thats the basic proceedure most employ, its best if you do that like every other move, and be aware of exactly how much RH (Relative Humidity) influences Static Discharge
Taking great care to never touch any chip or lead, handling only the PCB, perferably by the edges.
the other point of my post is that while the immediate cause and effect relationship of catastrophic failure, using the "typical" proceedure is low...
This board is filled every day with people who have developed RAM errors, data corruption problems (generally RAM) ect, Most of which can be traced to either poor power regulation (Transient Response) of the PSU, or ESD
Latent defects caused by ESD in any IC (and they are just everywhere from HDDs to NIC, CPU, RAM ect) are massively underated as a cause of problems. If you have eliminated power fluctuation problems (PSU voltage regulation and power conditioning) and still experience a component failure, odds are that it was a latent defect, either from installation, or one that wasnt caught during manufacturing.
the membership displays a cavalier attitude towards this issue for 2 reasons, RMA's are pretty easy, and they rarely employ the same component for its fully rated lifespan, upgrading before the eventual premature failure becomes appearent.
But
a latent defect, not only effects the lifespan, it degrades the performance of the IC as well, and is often the difference between the "Golden Chip" benchmark leader, the norm, and "why cant I get the same OC as this guy? Ive got the same components"
I leave my PSU plugged in but switched off at the wall, and try to always keep some part of my body in contact with the case. Never had a problem with it that way. That's the strategy I did when I had to assemble a computer over a friend's place and he had no available deskspace and his floor was carpeted. So I sat cross-legged on the carpet with it on my lap up off the carpet with the PSU plugged in and it all got assembled fine. It wasn't like I was shuffling or anything though.
TheMostWantedPolishTwin
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2000
- Messages
- 6,206
all I do is touching a heater to discharge myself....
I have the downside that the only rooms to with room to work in are carpeted. So for grounding I usually have the cpu unplugged, especially if I'm ripping the psu out 
and anytime I move my feet or shift my weight I touch the screw holding in the nearest electrical socket or lightswitch.
When I get some time, I'm going to wire my old anti-static wrist strap to a long power cord and just connect it to ground. I'm also going to enlarge the strap so it fits comfortably on my ankle.
the straps are nice for what they can do, but it's a pain in the ass if you're workin' in a tight space.
-Jeff
and anytime I move my feet or shift my weight I touch the screw holding in the nearest electrical socket or lightswitch.
When I get some time, I'm going to wire my old anti-static wrist strap to a long power cord and just connect it to ground. I'm also going to enlarge the strap so it fits comfortably on my ankle.
the straps are nice for what they can do, but it's a pain in the ass if you're workin' in a tight space.
-Jeff
If working on my boxen - I unplug power cable at the PSU and touch anything that resembles metal
If working for a client who is watching - I wear gay ass wrist strap connected to the case and unplug at same point
At work - same as my boxen
Most hardware today is not as sensitive to ESD as many people would have you think. Unless you are fixing a box on a 6 inch pimp shag carpet while doing the running man and rubbing a baloon on your shirt you are prolly ok. YMMV
*not sure where that rubbing a baloon on shirt thing came from, I think it was Mr. Wizard.
If working for a client who is watching - I wear gay ass wrist strap connected to the case and unplug at same point
At work - same as my boxen
Most hardware today is not as sensitive to ESD as many people would have you think. Unless you are fixing a box on a 6 inch pimp shag carpet while doing the running man and rubbing a baloon on your shirt you are prolly ok. YMMV
*not sure where that rubbing a baloon on shirt thing came from, I think it was Mr. Wizard.
I
Ice Czar
Guest
makshim said:So leaving your PSU plugged in CAN cause damage?
leave the PSU plugged in, that grounds the case
but unplug it from the mobo, because its putting power through the mobo even when its off
http://www.pcguide.com/ref/power/sup/func.htm
dont reseat RAM when there is any power to the mobo, or cards
I
Ice Czar
Guest
Its not outside of the realm of possibility
but definatively attributing it to that though is another matter
as you mentioned it could have been a bad power supply or a great many other contributing factors
a repeat from above
while there has been a great increase in the precautions taken to address ESD in manufacturing and shipping, and to protect devices by bleeding off ESD event in some circuits\voltage regulation schemes, the IC chips themselves are 2 orders more suceptible to such events at the current scale of fabrication, looks like its time for the other half of the rant
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Electromigration is the mechanisim that typically first degrades and then kills IC Chips (Integrated Circuits)
Semiconductor Electromigration In-Depth @ DWPG.com < the totally understandable link (if somewhat dated these days in particulars)
Electromigration and Voids @ Cornell
the Arrhenius equation
roughly translating to this rule of thumb
Each 10°C (18°F) temperature rise reduces component life by 50%*.
Conversely, each 10°C (18°F) temperature reduction increases component life by 100%.
however there is more to it
http://www.triquint.com/company/quality/faqs/faq_07.cfm (caution heavy wading)
"Electromigration mechanisms are accelerated by current density as well as temperature. The general relationship is sometimes referred to as Black's Equation. Just as with the Arrhenius equation, we can observe the electromigration effects on lifetimes using a graphical approach."
so, both elevated temperature, and voltage, can cause voids to form in the circuits of any chip, a problem that becomes more and more important as the number of atoms that comprise the width of that circuit decrease, (that first link was written when the manufacturing scale was at 0.18 microns we are now at .09 microns (90nm) with some chips) in addition the clock rates that the power is cycled through is all that much higher as well, making the chips all that more suceptible to ESD, voltage irregularities and temperature.
In short, Im very serious about my ESD precautions, power conditioning, power supplies and my thermal solution (under 40C CPU at full load w\ 30C SYS minimum) , and considering the price Ive paid for my workstation I want to squeeze every last hour out of it that I can, unlike a gaming rig, that may or maynot find another role in life once its yesterdays news, mine will be retired to a nice animation cluster to live out its full lifespan, but these cautions are just as important for anyone aspiring to a record overclock, or killer benchmark
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
thus your installation and your thermal solution are the 2 areas that you can exercise greater precautions to reduce the potential for loss, add in precautions in getting a good power supply and conditioning your power and you have likely nearly reduced it to manufacturing latent defects
but definatively attributing it to that though is another matter
as you mentioned it could have been a bad power supply or a great many other contributing factors
a repeat from above
while there has been a great increase in the precautions taken to address ESD in manufacturing and shipping, and to protect devices by bleeding off ESD event in some circuits\voltage regulation schemes, the IC chips themselves are 2 orders more suceptible to such events at the current scale of fabrication, looks like its time for the other half of the rant
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Electromigration is the mechanisim that typically first degrades and then kills IC Chips (Integrated Circuits)
Semiconductor Electromigration In-Depth @ DWPG.com < the totally understandable link (if somewhat dated these days in particulars)
Electromigration and Voids @ Cornell
the Arrhenius equation
roughly translating to this rule of thumb
Each 10°C (18°F) temperature rise reduces component life by 50%*.
Conversely, each 10°C (18°F) temperature reduction increases component life by 100%.
however there is more to it
http://www.triquint.com/company/quality/faqs/faq_07.cfm (caution heavy wading)
"Electromigration mechanisms are accelerated by current density as well as temperature. The general relationship is sometimes referred to as Black's Equation. Just as with the Arrhenius equation, we can observe the electromigration effects on lifetimes using a graphical approach."
so, both elevated temperature, and voltage, can cause voids to form in the circuits of any chip, a problem that becomes more and more important as the number of atoms that comprise the width of that circuit decrease, (that first link was written when the manufacturing scale was at 0.18 microns we are now at .09 microns (90nm) with some chips) in addition the clock rates that the power is cycled through is all that much higher as well, making the chips all that more suceptible to ESD, voltage irregularities and temperature.
In short, Im very serious about my ESD precautions, power conditioning, power supplies and my thermal solution (under 40C CPU at full load w\ 30C SYS minimum) , and considering the price Ive paid for my workstation I want to squeeze every last hour out of it that I can, unlike a gaming rig, that may or maynot find another role in life once its yesterdays news, mine will be retired to a nice animation cluster to live out its full lifespan, but these cautions are just as important for anyone aspiring to a record overclock, or killer benchmark
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
thus your installation and your thermal solution are the 2 areas that you can exercise greater precautions to reduce the potential for loss, add in precautions in getting a good power supply and conditioning your power and you have likely nearly reduced it to manufacturing latent defects
I
Ice Czar
Guest
makshim said:
well, youd crosspart
you havent described what its doing, do the fans spin?
start with dismounting the mobo and removing everything but the CPU Heatsink and Fan and speaker, attach the PSU and power up
you should get alot of beeps
you could easilly have a short to the mobo if you dont dismount it
also verify the HSF is plugged into the right header on the mobo, there is likely a thermal cutout protection, and if it doesnt detect the fan it wont power up or it will cut out, same with the HSF make sure its properly mounted and that there is a good contact with the CPU, and that the thermal interface material is properly applied, did you use a pad or grease?
if you get alot of beeps, then add RAM, the vidcard, a mouse and keyboard and access the BIOS
then mount the board and repeat
if its the PSU well, testing it is really something you want to do in a running system
to really "test" it you want a Multimeter and observe the voltage under a dynamic load
what PSU is it?
and what is it powering?
If thats a cheap flyweight generic PSU that came with a case you probably should just use it as a doorstop right now,
(and no Im not joking) its likely next to worthless or worse could fry stuff
you cant substitute a good PSU especially on todays sensitive and power hungry components, generics are notorious for underpowering components,
and often lack the "working" protection cuttouts you need to avoid frying stuff
if it came with a case its likely worth all of $5 to $10, a good one will run you $65 to $115
or more I have a $200 supply, which is damn cheap insurance on +$3000 worth of components
scottatwittenberg
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2002
- Messages
- 3,306
mr wizard... haha.. that's great...
anyways... i have never ever even thought about grouding myself or discharging electricity when working on a computer... i haven't had any problems (that i know of) yet... knock on wood... i usually take a computer and put it in my lap and start working on it.. i stack video and sound cards on top of each other usually on the top of the case of another computer that is running..
now that i think about it though, i was working on a guys computer at work.. and i took out the sound card and modem... and then after i put them back in, the comptuer wouldn't boot... pulling the sound card out made it work fine... so maybe i zapped a 10 year old shitty soundcard... or maybe i just 'disturbed the dust bunnies" in his case.. the computer is a k6 266 anyways...
anyways... i have never ever even thought about grouding myself or discharging electricity when working on a computer... i haven't had any problems (that i know of) yet... knock on wood... i usually take a computer and put it in my lap and start working on it.. i stack video and sound cards on top of each other usually on the top of the case of another computer that is running..
now that i think about it though, i was working on a guys computer at work.. and i took out the sound card and modem... and then after i put them back in, the comptuer wouldn't boot... pulling the sound card out made it work fine... so maybe i zapped a 10 year old shitty soundcard... or maybe i just 'disturbed the dust bunnies" in his case.. the computer is a k6 266 anyways...
I
Ice Czar
Guest
well Im certainly less concerned about the antique ware than my workstation
and admit to a few stacks of cards as well, it goes on a sliding scale,
the $300 RAID card and the +$600 mobo get alot more due dilegence than
the salvaged K6 and PC100
I dont fire up the humidifier for antiqueware, but the work area is always grounded
and admit to a few stacks of cards as well, it goes on a sliding scale,
the $300 RAID card and the +$600 mobo get alot more due dilegence than
the salvaged K6 and PC100
I dont fire up the humidifier for antiqueware, but the work area is always grounded
I
Ice Czar
Guest
"installing" the mobo is the easiest way to get an inadvertant short
so have him uninstall it, install the CPU and the Heatsink w\ fan and the speaker
then power up there should be a hell of alot of beeping with no RAM and VideoCard
I do that as soon as I get a mobo right in the box
then I add the Videocard\Monitor RAM mouse and keyboard
and access the BIOS, then I attach a FDD and test the RAM
then I mount the mobo and start over
once its passed I add the HDD & Optical
install the OS and the mobo drivers
then I install the cards and their drivers
then I install the Service Pack and Hotfixes, and configure the security
then I attach to the internet, than I install additional aps
but more to the point what Power Supply does he have and what is he trying to power
is he using a thermal pad or thermal grease?
so have him uninstall it, install the CPU and the Heatsink w\ fan and the speaker
then power up there should be a hell of alot of beeping with no RAM and VideoCard
I do that as soon as I get a mobo right in the box
then I add the Videocard\Monitor RAM mouse and keyboard
and access the BIOS, then I attach a FDD and test the RAM
then I mount the mobo and start over
once its passed I add the HDD & Optical
install the OS and the mobo drivers
then I install the cards and their drivers
then I install the Service Pack and Hotfixes, and configure the security
then I attach to the internet, than I install additional aps
but more to the point what Power Supply does he have and what is he trying to power
is he using a thermal pad or thermal grease?
Ice Czar said:
He has that UV reactive PSU (500 watt, overkill IMO) from frozencpu. He hasnt put a cpu in but will be powering a 3.0 LGA775 on some generic HSP (refused to take my AS5, and refused to listen to my advice to get an A64). On side note im not familiar with the LGA775, is that silver square on the bottom of the HS a thermal pad
I
Ice Czar
Guest
he hasnt put the cpu in?
anything attached to the bottom of the heatsink other than just a protective film will be a pad, they are good for only one application, and melt into the microvalleys of the heatsink and CPU, and so most enthusiasts avoid them (removing them from the heatsink and often relapping the heatsink then applying a thermal grease)
back to the he hasnt put the CPU in, then what is it that isnt running?
the mobo needs a CPU to run
anything attached to the bottom of the heatsink other than just a protective film will be a pad, they are good for only one application, and melt into the microvalleys of the heatsink and CPU, and so most enthusiasts avoid them (removing them from the heatsink and often relapping the heatsink then applying a thermal grease)
back to the he hasnt put the CPU in, then what is it that isnt running?
the mobo needs a CPU to run
I Killed my 9800Pro w/ESD..it was an accident though.
I was sitting in my chair, its kinda made of this weird fabric and i was wearing these basketball shorts, i guess i rubbed the chair the wrong way and after i put my 9800pro back in there was lines all over the screen and crap.
so its on RMA to ATi right now, it should be here tomorrow or saturday, or next week =/
I was sitting in my chair, its kinda made of this weird fabric and i was wearing these basketball shorts, i guess i rubbed the chair the wrong way and after i put my 9800pro back in there was lines all over the screen and crap.
so its on RMA to ATi right now, it should be here tomorrow or saturday, or next week =/
I
Ice Czar
Guest
they vary, if its not actually part of the heatsink its a thermal pad
so I still dont get what the problem is, hes trying to turn on what?
you have to at least install the CPU and heatsink & fan inorder to try to turn on the computer
and without the speaker you only get to see if the fan spins
on the PSU front
watts dont mean jack these days
the question becomes does the PSU have enough amps where it needs it to power the components
and the veracity of the manufacturer supplying those figures
there are alot of PSU at frozencpu which one is it?
so I still dont get what the problem is, hes trying to turn on what?
you have to at least install the CPU and heatsink & fan inorder to try to turn on the computer
and without the speaker you only get to see if the fan spins
on the PSU front
watts dont mean jack these days
the question becomes does the PSU have enough amps where it needs it to power the components
and the veracity of the manufacturer supplying those figures
there are alot of PSU at frozencpu which one is it?
Im having the same problem with an amd 2400 in an esc k7s5a mobo. the cpu and hsf are all plugged in, and when i plug in the psu to the mobo, and then to the wall, nothing happens. No beeps, no fans moving, nothing. The psu is a 340W antec, but it only has about 12 amps max on the 5V rail amd 1.5amps on the 12V rail. Could it be i fried the psu(which i think might be seriously underamped) or the motherboard?
I
Ice Czar
Guest
that supply would be rated at least 15A on the +12V
(I assume the decimal place is wrong in your post)
thats kind of low for any modern mobo, Im not sure if that board uses the +5V or the +12V to power the CPU but would guess its the +12V
so your likley to run into stability issues depending on what your trying to power
but without anything else attached it should fire up
of course you did attach the power switch or short the pins to turn it on
if so and you have eliminated any possibility of a short, youd want to try clearing the CMOS (refer to the manula on the jumper its typically located near the battery) or remove the battery and try again, failing that try a different PSU
in the long run its a good idea to run through this proceedure for determining your power needs and some of the factors that can effect a power supply selection (Im sorry its currently such a mess)
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=779582
(I assume the decimal place is wrong in your post)
thats kind of low for any modern mobo, Im not sure if that board uses the +5V or the +12V to power the CPU but would guess its the +12V
so your likley to run into stability issues depending on what your trying to power
but without anything else attached it should fire up
of course you did attach the power switch or short the pins to turn it on
if so and you have eliminated any possibility of a short, youd want to try clearing the CMOS (refer to the manula on the jumper its typically located near the battery) or remove the battery and try again, failing that try a different PSU
in the long run its a good idea to run through this proceedure for determining your power needs and some of the factors that can effect a power supply selection (Im sorry its currently such a mess)
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=779582
'fraid not, it says output: +12V -----1.5X MAX
+5V ------12A MAX
+3.3V------6A MAX
-12V --------0.2A MAX
+5V SB-----------2A MAX
This psu came out of a very tiny micro board with an 866 PIII, and a correction to the above post, it says max continuous output power is 90W, sorry. I tried taking out the cmos battery and trying again, and clearing cmos, no luck. still nothing happens. i think im gonna get a new psu and try that.
+5V ------12A MAX
+3.3V------6A MAX
-12V --------0.2A MAX
+5V SB-----------2A MAX
This psu came out of a very tiny micro board with an 866 PIII, and a correction to the above post, it says max continuous output power is 90W, sorry. I tried taking out the cmos battery and trying again, and clearing cmos, no luck. still nothing happens. i think im gonna get a new psu and try that.
I
Ice Czar
Guest
IceBawx said:
well to put it politely
that supply doesnt stand a snowballs chance in hell of ever powering that mobo
it obviously predates the switch to +12V VRMs (Voltage Regulation Moduals, that power the CPU & Chipset)
and was just enough to run a FDD and old HDD likely
I
Ice Czar
Guest
P3s used a +5V VRM, and so all supplies of that era and up till quite recently heavily favored the +3.3V and +5V rails
(which where generally combined rails)
many people have PSU in their boxes right now that they think are just fine,
(Hell its a 400>500 watt PSU!!!) that is terminally weak on the +12V rails
they have jumped from 15A upto and 22A > 32A in say the 400watt \ 500watt PSUs
(the PSU in my sig will do +12V 38A peak)
the +12V rail powering the mobo (most of the AGP, RAM, the CPU, alot of the cards, and the upcoming PCI Express) plus the drives and the supplemental power to the AGP cards
and there are folks still buying these older PSUs based on the watts
which as mentioned dont mean jack these days if they aint got it in the right place
(which where generally combined rails)
many people have PSU in their boxes right now that they think are just fine,
(Hell its a 400>500 watt PSU!!!) that is terminally weak on the +12V rails
they have jumped from 15A upto and 22A > 32A in say the 400watt \ 500watt PSUs
(the PSU in my sig will do +12V 38A peak)
the +12V rail powering the mobo (most of the AGP, RAM, the CPU, alot of the cards, and the upcoming PCI Express) plus the drives and the supplemental power to the AGP cards
and there are folks still buying these older PSUs based on the watts
which as mentioned dont mean jack these days if they aint got it in the right place