how to learn metalworking?

[FalconSS]

hey guys!
im really interested in doing modifications but I don't really know how to work w/ metal. Im going to school for engineering and want some practical experience so what can I do to learn the craft? I also live in a small town <7000 people. Our wal-mart closes at 9pm! Thats really why I haven't had much experience. You simply cant run to the store to get something you need.I keep thinking I will order the aluminum, plexi, tubing. ect. and when I finally start I will be missing a critical part.

anyway, any help on where I could learn or places to get cheap materials online I would really appreciate!


thanks!

 

[FalconSS]

shoot, sorry, just noticed I posted in the wrong forum...can a mod move it to the general cases, case modding forum?

 

[Exanimis]

Mcmaster carr

I think its mcmaster.com

seems to be the best source for raw materials online at reasonable prices. I am lucky enough to work in an industrial park which has a HUGE scrap metal warehouse nearby where I can get 1/16th inch aluminum 12 foot by 4 foot for 99 bucks. w00t. (Now how to I move it lol...)

 

[greensabbath]

My favorite places are Mcmaster.com for odds and ends.

Onlinemetals.com for aluminum, copper sheet, rods and such, good prices and decent shipping. Mcmaster can be expensive on sheets and things but they have great taps and such.

for plexi the best prices and quality can be found at www.delviesplastics.com Cell cast is infinitely better than extruded

 

[unixadm]

To be honest - find a local supplier because working with metal isn't exactly something you can always plan. It would suck to start a project and then wait eight days for another piece to arrive UPS. Plus shipping material is somewhat difficult and it makes getting sheet goods in a decent sizes difficult.

Now in order to work with metal you need to determine what you want to do. If you simply want to mod a case and cut holes, you don't need much. A drill, Dremel, hole saws, and a jig saw will do the trick. However if you want to get into more complex shapes then you need an assortment of hammers, dollies, benders, slip rolls, shrinkers, stretchers, good hand shears, plasma cutter, vertical bandsaw, etc can all be a big plus. Now you get into joining metal and that means you need a welder for most tasks. A TIG welder will provide you the most flexibility to join material such as a aluminum using AC current and steel using DC current. Then you need grinders, ring rollers, roll benders, tube benders, a press, drill press, and a bandsaw to cut material.

Trust me, this line of work is not cheap. To work sheet metal you need a lot of equipment and hand tools, but more so major skill. It's not a job, it's an art form. The problem is, there are not many artists out there anymore to really teach you the skills. Guys like me just grab some metal and start building. With time, you gain experience. However many times I wish I would meet an old timer with 30 years in that could teach you more in a week than you'd learn in three years on your own. Try to find someone who does this type of work locally, and see if you can't pay them for some basic lessons. Then set aside some dough for tools. I have invested over $35,000 in tools for metal working and fabrication thus far. I have most of the tools I listed above, but not all. I still need a hydraulic bender, roll bender, shinker/stretchers, english wheel, planishing hammer, larger dolly assortment, and a squaring shear. Only another $12-15k!

 

[sevry]

However many times I wish I would meet an old timer with 30 years in that could teach you more in a week than you'd learn in three years on your own.

As a metalworker, I'm sure. But to modify computer cases, one may not need to know how to fabricate a car's rear quarter panel, or 'develop' the ducting for a small office. But as far as welding, couldn't one use an alloy, like Alumaloy, which only requires a propane torch, I think?

 

[Susquehannock]

Been lurking in this thread since the beginning. As you can tell from my signature I have extensive experience with metalworking across several fields.
And I'd say unixadm is spot on.

Modding a case is one thing, fabricating something from scratch is another. Requires some tooling, as well as some knowledge. Best thing is to learn from an expert. Either find a school or get a job in the particular field. That is how I learned to work with sheet metal. By working as a "sheet metal mechanic" for a few years. Nothing like "hands on" training.

 

[unixadm]

As a metalworker, I'm sure. But to modify computer cases, one may not need to know how to fabricate a car's rear quarter panel, or 'develop' the ducting for a small office. But as far as welding, couldn't one use an alloy, like Alumaloy, which only requires a propane torch, I think?

I'm just saying - he said he wants to learn "metal working". Case modding and "metalworking" are two different lines of work. I broke it down between the two.

There is no replacement for using the correct methods of joining metal. Lay down a nice TIG bead on aluminum and then you'll understand that anything out of a propane torch isn't the way to go. The welder "welds" the material together by melting each side of the weld joint, and filler can be added to prevent any undercut. However with a propane torch, you're not welding, you're soldering the parts together which does not melt the base material. For light use, it probably works just fine.

Modding a case is easy if you think it through and have some materials. If all you want to do is drill some holes and mount a few fans, you don't need much. However if you ever want to do stuff like this (X1900 PWM CNC Heatsink I designed and sold):

Or build different parts to modify a case a bit more like this: http://www.dmwtech.com/gallery2/v/old/pc73slb/

You need tools and equipment.

 

[MonK_TanG]

Best way is to work/apprentice in an Autobody Shop. Learning to bend/weld/assemble/drill/paint/customize/ect smaller fancyer metals and panels becomes like 2nd nature after a year or 2 ^_^

 

[eyedol]

^ nice taig

 

[Stuey83]

I'm sure that there are plenty of books out there, but there is no substitute for experience.

You learn as you go along and buy equipment as you need it.

Mcmaster Carr, as mentioned, has a great selection of drill bits, taps, and other assorted things. I also use www.use-enco.com for certain items.

Drilling = drill w/ bits
Cutting = tin snips/shears (heavy duty scissors), dremel, jig saw, chisel, etc.
Bending = brake or hammer + blocks.

Get a ball pein hammer to shape the metal. Ball peins are also used for metal chisels, center punches, prick punches, and the like.

Taps can be used to create threads in thicker metal. Sheet metal screws, bolts, rivets can be used to fasten thin sheet metal.

You learn by trying. I'm going to use taps for the first time this weekend and expect to brake a few and/or ruin some material.

For acrylic panels, I like the A.C. Ryan panels that performance-pcs.com carries.

 

[FalconSS]

sorry it took so long to reply.

I want to start out modding cases, cutting windows, fan grills, ect. I have used welders and torches before but never on such a small scale. I want to eventually learn more ( My father and I are restoring a 1933 chevy coupe but we don't know that much about the sheet metal side of things) I have tried a few "modifications" and I can never seem to get the welds, or cutting work right. Is there any tips so I don't royally screw up a project due to a slip of the hand or lapse of concentration?
thanks for all the replys!

--- there really isn't that many places to learn around here. There are a few autobody shops but being a SMALL town they only accept people already trained,relatives, or friends.


EDIT: I'm wanting to do my first "minor" case mod by adding a window to this:
http://www.xoxide.com/spire-pininfarina-case-silver.html

review: http://www.overclockersonline.net/index.php?page=articles&num=531&pnum=1

I wanted a case with a window that was also sleek. I found this case and fell in love with it. I just hate the multiple slats in the sides for cooling. I want to get rid of the top 120 fan vent but keep the 80 on the middle bar. Is there a reliable way to cut slits in acrylic?
I would like to make the window out of curves but that is getting in over my head. Im not that skilled with a dremal or jigsaw. I will be adding a freezone TEC to the rear 80 mount. any ideas?

 

[Stuey83]

Most people (99.99%) of modders don't even consider welding any part of their case, so if you have problems with it, there should be alternatives methods that you could learn depending on what you wanted to weld and why.

You might want to pick up window moulding (available at frozencpu, performance-pcs, jab-tech, etc) or it's called "edge trim" at mcmaster carr. This way, if you don't get an even cut, you can cover it up.

For cutting windows and such, there are plenty of tutorials that you can look up online, but they're not really necessary.

What you'd want to do is measure everything out. I like to use masking tape on and around the area that I want to cut since the tools I use skip around sometimes. You're going to want a thin sheet of wood, or pressed board (very cheap at Lowes, Home Depot) just in case. I cut sheet metal with the thin board underneath because it helps add stability to the cut and prevents the metal from bending violently as its being cut.

I use a dremel or large drill but to get started. From there, I just jig saw away. Bosch makes some nice jig saw blades which are very thin and pefect for curved cuts.

To cut slits in acrylic, you can use a jig saw, but a dremel might be easier. You can drill a hole and then insert a dremel with sanding wheel, router bit, or "multipurpose cutting bit" that looks like a drill bit but is fluted for horizontal cutting.

When you buy or acquire raw materials, get extra stock. I ruin quite a bit of material in my process of experimentation/learning.

For drilling plastic, they make special bits, but I never wanted to be bothered with the cost or hassle in finding them. But my acrylic always chips. Supposedly polycarbonate is much better than acrylic in that it doesn't chip, but I like the color selection of acrylic. I bought an Irwin unibit (generically called a step-bit), and found that it makes decent holes in both thin sheet metal and 1/8" max acrylic. 3mm acrlic (0.118") is a good thickness to work with for windows and the such.

For the case you linked to, I'd recommend starting off slowly. Start by removing one section at a time. If you cut away the entire side, it might become a little weak, so you just might be better off with a curved cut that leaves part of the center material intact.

Having a set of hand files is optional - I found that a dremel can be used in most cases although it's a somewhat tedous process.

After you make cuts in metal, use an aluminum oxide grinding bit (orange) to clean up the cut edges. I believe that the green ones are for ceramics, but can probably be used as a substitute. You don't need to clean up too much if you have window moulding available.

Your shopping list:

• Dremel with cut-off wheels which come in many varieties. If the case is steel, you'll need heavy duty wheels, fiberglass reinforced wheels, or the newer easy-lock metal wheels. If you buy a dremel kit, don't worry about purchasing extra wheels yet. Or you can always buy an accessory kit for $10-$20. I recommend a general purpose kit for $20 so that you get the wide variety of accessories you might need extras of.
• Jig saw with metal cutting bits. This is not necessary but is a bit quicker and cleaner than using a dremel.
• Safety goggles. Dremel cutting wheels shatter frequently especially when you're just getting started with them. Even if you're not using a dremel, other things want to jump in your eye. Prevent them from doing so.
• Edge trimming - available at mod shops and mcmaster carr for a bit cheaper, although you have to choose your own sizes there. I bought a few different sizes recently, if you want to know the lengths I chose, send me a PM.
• Masking tape to prevent tool skipping from ruining your uncut surfaces.
• A few clamps. Cheap c-clamps, Irwin quick clamps, or Vise-Grip clamps can all be used, but purchase according to your budget.
• A flat surface to clamp your work to. A slab of particle board works fine.
• Practice stock - get some aluminum/steel and practice your cuts, or find some free scraps to practice on.
• For a window, polycarbonate or cast acrylic are good choices.
• Ball pein hammer (pretty good prices at Home Depot), center punch and/or prick punch.
• Scratch awl to scratch measurements/cutting lines down.
• Scriber/scorer. I believe that these are easier to find at Lowes than the other big box shops. It looks like a retractable or fixed blade utility knife, but has a long neck, and angled cutting blade. This is used for making cuts in plastic. You scrape the plastic with the sharp point, along a straightedge, and after a few passes you clamp the plastic, brace both edges, and snap it at the scored line. Looks like this and is available at McMaster Carr or at Lowes (Kobalt branded). If you buy the blade separately, it needs to be paired with a fixed-blade holder like so.

Hope this helps!

 

[Susquehannock]

Great thread so far. Love to see the metalworking skills displayed here.

To the OP .... seeing how you are restoring that 1933 Chevy coupe, any chance you have an air compressor?
If so you would do well to use a pneumatic (air powered) die grinder for PC case modding instead of a Dremel.
They are just a toy when compared to air tools really.



99.99% of modders never consider welding? Guess I am in the minority then.

 

[Stuey83]

Great thread so far. Love to see the metalworking skills displayed here.

To the OP .... seeing how you are restoring that 1933 Chevy coupe, any chance you have an air compressor?
If so you would do well to use a pneumatic (air powered) die grinder for PC case modding instead of a Dremel.
They are just a toy when compared to air tools really.



99.99% of modders never consider welding? Guess I am in the minority then.

What's the minimum spec you need for a compressor to be able to handle a die grinder?

Well, I meant to convey that since most modders don't have access to welding equipment, they use alternative fastening methods.

 

[sevry]

Lay down a nice TIG bead on aluminum

I have.

and then you'll understand that anything out of a propane torch isn't the way to go.

Well, as you say, it's not welding. But a material, metalurgical bond is still created. I've never actually used, Alumaloy, or similar. Flux is built in. The only concern I might have is with any deterioration in the metal by the process, over time.

For light use, it probably works just fine.

We're talking about a computer case, here. It's pretty light duty compared with a manual transmission boss.

However if you ever want to do stuff like this (X1900 PWM CNC Heatsink I designed and sold):

One could always contract out, as well, but at some expense - set-up, shop standard minimum billing, etc. You could pencil it yourself, or Autosketch, or whatever. I could set up and run a whole bunch of lens adapters, for example, on a CNC lathe. But I might not have one handy, and so would have to pay a job shop. I thought about it at the time, but went another route.

What if the OP merely wanted to open up some areas, close others, punch some holes, and fold back the lip, close up others? I would think soldering would be sufficient even just to tack panels in place.

I could be wrong. And you'll correct me if I'm wrong. But I would think the simplest solution might be best. Just flood the PSU, and the board and cards, with air, even cooled air. Front fans, back fans, and just drag that air across. You could have a cooler in the front. But I wonder that playing with cages could reduce air flow in that area, or that baffles would direct it one place, but cause too much of a discrepancy in other areas that it might create problems. But again, I could be wrong.

 

[Susquehannock]

What's the minimum spec you need for a compressor to be able to handle a die grinder?

Sorry, must have missed your post before.

Well, most any compressor will run a die grinder. Question is, for how long.
The most important spec to remember is volume = CFM.

Most die grinders use around 7-CFM. Since the pump on most smaller compressors cannot put out that much volume, you have
to use the pressure inside the tank. Therefore, the bigger your tank, the more time you will have at higher volume rates. Or you
can do as I did & get a compressor with a smaller tank but high volume pump.

 

[Stuey83]

Sorry, must have missed your post before.

Well, most any compressor will run a die grinder. Question is, for how long.
The most important spec to remember is volume = CFM.

Most die grinders use around 7-CFM. Since the pump on most smaller compressors cannot put out that much volume, you have
to use the pressure inside the tank. Therefore, the bigger your tank, the more time you will have at higher volume rates. Or you
can do as I did & get a compressor with a smaller tank but high volume pump.

No problems!

I have a 2 gallon cheapo B&D compressor. I think I'll consider a die grinder now - your cutting inspired me! =)

I've been meaning to get an angle grinder but don't really have the space for any more tools, and since I already have a compressor, I could just hide the die grinder somewhere and my soon to be wife won't mind it as much.

 

[FalconSS]

thanks for all the great tips!

Yes I have a very large industrial air compressor. I can't remember the exact volume but its about a 5 ft tall upright. I already have a selection of air powered tools including a die grinder but I always have trouble with air powered tools compared to electric ones. its a little harder for me to control the power. I guess I just need more practice.

thanks everyone again and if there are any more hints,tips, suggestions, ideas, or comments about the project I would love to hear from everyone!

 

[SEALTeamSix]

...I want to start out modding cases, cutting windows... I'm wanting to do my first "minor" case mod by adding a window ...

Regarding how to do it, here's some links for you:

Basic Window Mod Guide

A Window Mod Video Guide

Obviously, there are lots of different ways to attach windows - tape, rubber trim, rivets, screws, etc... there are lots of worklogs out there if you google "window mod".

Note - you can use a dremel for all the cuts if you don't have a jigsaw, but you'll want to go over the edges lightly with a sanding or grinding bit after cutting to smooth out any burrs. Grinding bits are also useful for getting perfectly rounded corners - just take your time.

Also, it might seem obvious, but just in case: never do any cutting with the parts already in your case - do it with an empty case, and make sure to clean the case out well after you do any cutting. Little metal flakes + expensive electronics = bad.