How They’re Blocking Google TV

J

John_Keck

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 3, 2010
Messages
379
Hulu, NBC and other content providers are blocking Google TV devices by checking against Flash version IDs. Lawyer fun in 3, 2, 1..

Both Flash players are at functional level 10.1, further suggesting that the blocking of GTV is not motivated by a lack of technical playback capabilities. We can demonstrate that Flash playback is involved by calling up the standard Flash settings dialogue on the PC.
Unlike the browser client information, the GTV Flash player ID data cannot be reasonably altered by users to bypass Google TV blockades.
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Everyone screams "sue" at the first sign of perceived inequity. I'm not saying this is moral, but I'm fairly sure it's not illegal. The only possible allegation would be antitrust violations. An FCC investigation might get something started, but chances of a lawsuit succeeding are probably low.

*Not an Antitrust lawyer...*
 
cyprusxr3 said:
Everyone screams "sue" at the first sign of perceived inequity. I'm not saying this is moral, but I'm fairly sure it's not illegal. The only possible allegation would be antitrust violations. An FCC investigation might get something started, but chances of a lawsuit succeeding are probably low.

*Not an Antitrust lawyer...*
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that was addressed
Imagine the protests that would ensue if Internet services arbitrarily blocked video only to Internet Explorer or Firefox browsers! Or if Hulu and the other networks decided they'd refuse to stream video to HP and Dell computers because those manufacturers hadn't made deals with the services to the latter's liking.

I'm not a lawyer, but this appears to be an utterly scandalous situation crying out for legal investigations. If this sort of invidious behavior on the part of Internet video services is allowed to stand in the case of Google TV, it will be difficult to argue against a veritable stampede of similar unacceptable practices by these and other services, aimed at an ever broadening scope of hardware and software systems, ISPs, and of course Internet users themselves.

This really isn't about Google TV or even Google itself for that matter. It's about the right of Internet users to access Internet services of their choosing -- in legal manners using technically compatible equipment of their choice -- without inappropriate and discriminatory interference of the sort we're seeing deployed against GTV.
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Well, with HTML5 all of these issues would not exist now would they?
 
This is exactly why Net Neutrality legislation must be made a priority. It's only these companies laziness that's kept this from becoming an issue before now.
 
I'm hesitant to put all the blame on Hulu. My guess is the cable companies are putting huge pressure on the networks to limit online content. In turn, I would imagine the networks are putting huge pressure on Hulu to limit, as much as possible, the ability to watch Hulu on your television. These situations smell bad, but I don't think it's net neutrality that is smelling up the room, it's the cable TV providers realizing they are on the verge of dying fast and need to take action.

The cable companies are in a bind. They have set a standard price for broadband, so it's tough to raise it, but at the same time that service is starting to diminish the need for their TV service, which is their bread and butter. I'd almost feel sorry for them if they weren't notoriously monopolistic assholes that gouge you every chance they get while providing some of the worst customer service this side of the pacific. I don't know about you guys, but I'm not buying any Comcast stock any time soon.
 
ryken said:
I'm hesitant to put all the blame on Hulu. My guess is the cable companies are putting huge pressure on the networks to limit online content. In turn, I would imagine the networks are putting huge pressure on Hulu to limit, as much as possible, the ability to watch Hulu on your television. These situations smell bad, but I don't think it's net neutrality that is smelling up the room, it's the cable TV providers realizing they are on the verge of dying fast and need to take action.

The cable companies are in a bind. They have set a standard price for broadband, so it's tough to raise it, but at the same time that service is starting to diminish the need for their TV service, which is their bread and butter. I'd almost feel sorry for them if they weren't notoriously monopolistic assholes that gouge you every chance they get while providing some of the worst customer service this side of the pacific. I don't know about you guys, but I'm not buying any Comcast stock any time soon.
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that is actually a good point, though I am quicker to blame the media as they have a history of panicking over changing business models. still your point def needs to be brought into the equation
 
Darth Millennial said:
This is exactly why Net Neutrality legislation must be made a priority. It's only these companies laziness that's kept this from becoming an issue before now.
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This isn't a net neutrality issue. Nobody's ISP is using network management to block this feature. It's an internet service that is doing the blocking, which is a completely different kettle of fish, even if they're doing it under pressure from companies that are also ISPs.
 
Nightbird said:
HTPCs FTW?
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right on mayn..if not, alot of people haave a junk pc capable of doin this already...just add a cheap hdmi card...you might have to find a way to shut the woman of the house up when she says..."eww..that doesn't look good there.." :D when you hawl your beige tower near the tv.
 
ryken said:
...My guess is the cable companies are putting huge pressure on the networks to limit online content. In turn, I would imagine the networks are putting huge pressure on <xyz> to limit, as much as possible, the ability to watch <xyz> on your television...

The cable companies are in a bind. They have set a standard price for broadband, so it's tough to raise it, but at the same time that service is starting to diminish the need for their TV service, which is their bread and butter. I'd almost feel sorry for them if they weren't notoriously monopolistic assholes that gouge you every chance they get while providing some of the worst customer service this side of the pacific.
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This pretty much sums it up.
<my personal edit in teal, agreement in red>

It'd be nice if they'd also stop packet-filtering (and selectively applying the brakes) those items which they don't want you to get/see so you don't 'bog down' their network with heavy data that's not on their internal "approved" lists.

EG: Direct data DL from MS direct (ala technet) at beautiful speeds, but right off the same backbone from a major newsgroup reader = "mysteriously dropped packets" & slow connection (until you go SSL via NNTP browser). Yeah, no selective practices there either. :rolleyes: Gotta love DPI.
 
Isn't it possible to edit the versions through hex editing the flash binary, or at least by intercepting that magic packet and replacing it with the "correct" version numbers?
 
cyprusxr3 said:
Everyone screams "sue" at the first sign of perceived inequity. I'm not saying this is moral, but I'm fairly sure it's not illegal. The only possible allegation would be antitrust violations. An FCC investigation might get something started, but chances of a lawsuit succeeding are probably low.

*Not an Antitrust lawyer...*
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it doesn't have to be illegal for you to sue...in fact that's one of the reasons people sue...because the matter could not be taken care of in a criminal court
 
toast0 said:
This isn't a net neutrality issue. Nobody's ISP is using network management to block this feature. It's an internet service that is doing the blocking, which is a completely different kettle of fish, even if they're doing it under pressure from companies that are also ISPs.
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Net Neutrality is at the heart of the matter. Restricting neutrality arguments to traffic shaping is asinine at best. Content provider also must be neutral at who or this case which systems they allow to see content.
 
Net neutrality has nothing to do with it, they own the videos, they paid for it, and pay for the bandwidth, it is up to them to decide who can view it and how, at least they are not trying to sugar coat it and being straight out in saying they won't allow googletv, if you own it, find other content. But of course it won't ever be seen that way, companies are constantly being told what to do with things they own or provide
 
yeah, I don't see a clear legal argument against this. It's not a free speech issue, not an invasion of privacy. You don't have the right to use copyrighted content on any device you want. This is the sad truth.

Soon cable operators will offer IP-based video to all their customers and it will be awesome.

I just used the ESPN3 client on xbox360 this weekend for the first time, it is excellent apart from the lack of content. You can browse past events, get instant previews of the video while browsing, browse live events, pause and rewind live tv, and its all in HD (appears to be at least 720p, hard to tell on my TV).

If a cable company offered this type of service that included all their content, I would sign up immediately. As it stands I don't have a cable service, just internet/Hulu/Netflix and I get all the broadcast channels OTA for free obviously.
 
Since GTVs run apps I have to ask why not just download a different browser and see if that gets around the block?
 
Nightbird said:
HTPCs FTW?
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Meh, to some extent. HTPC-friendly browsers such as Kylo is also prevented from viewing Hulu and a few other network contents online. You'd have to use Hulu Desktop (with Media Center Integration plug-in, which works better for Harmony remotes anyways - Kylo works best with a Gyration remote).

The race to block TV-based browsers and hardware is getting ridiculous. I can understand they're trying to keep from losing the last bastion of their moneymaker or else we'd be out of shows to watch, but still, it's also unfair to the less tech savvy people to be barred from enjoying contents like this while we know a hundred and one different ways around it.
 
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