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How quiet is QUIET?

C

cubsfan-budman

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Messages
172
I have some Antec case fans that I'd like to upgrade. They are the 3-speed (Tricool) models. At highest setting, they *should* be around 30db. That is too loud :)

They are somewhat old, so they may have degraded some, becoming louder (?).

I was considering Gentle Typhoon AP-14 or -15. The 15s are only 2db quieter. I know that each db is some fairly generous factor louder than the next...but in this case, will 28db be "quiet"/"silent"?

Thanks for the help! I might consider the AP-14s which are 7db quieter than the 15s, but obviously the air movement is less too...

C.
 
Sadly, there are many more issues with the idea of "quiet" than just sound pressure, and they tend to be completely subjective. Tonality can make a fan with higher db "sound quieter" than another. I would definitely suggest you check out this forum if you're really intent on identifying what you're after before pulling the trigger.
 
Back in 2011, when the Tricool fans in my Antec P180B started getting noisy with age, I got three Nexus BASIC D12SL-12 fans to replace them, per the SilentPCReview fan recommendations. They remain very quiet; my wife, who has sensitive hearing, can't tell whether or not the PC is on by the noise it makes.
 
Btw my biggest noise offender is the stupid pump on my corsair h60. I really just need to make sure the new fans are quieter than that :)
 
They will move enough. I found an older HardOCP thread on AP-14 vs AP-15 that recommends the 140mm TY-140 fan instead for case fans (larger fan, lower speed, more CFM, less noise - if they fit in the case).
 
cubsfan-budman said:
Btw my biggest noise offender is the stupid pump on my corsair h60. I really just need to make sure the new fans are quieter than that :)
Click to expand...

Interesting. So here's one of those noisy pumps. Was it always like that, or did it get louder like a fan does over time? Why not try a newer cheap AIO and see if you can get rid of that pump noise. I'm not lying my H50 makes no pump noise, I'd probably replace an H60 with an H75.

The loudest thing in my case at idle are the 2 Noctua NF-F14FLXs I have set up for intake at the top of the case... They make a sort of rapid ticking when you put your ear close to them, which I don't hear from my chair. Placing a DMCIflex filter over them mutes the noise mostly, also.

At full tilt by far the loudest thing in my case are the video card blowers. I'm seriously considering going water with them.
 
Bluesun311 said:
Interesting. So here's one of those noisy pumps. Was it always like that, or did it get louder like a fan does over time? Why not try a newer cheap AIO and see if you can get rid of that pump noise. I'm not lying my H50 makes no pump noise, I'd probably replace an H60 with an H75.
Click to expand...

So, I'd always assumed that it was the fan on my gpu making the humming noise in the case, and I intend to replace that soon. Turns out it's very obviously the corsair cooler. In fact, it is a "hum", but a different one than a fan makes.

I may indeed change out the aio...but I'll likely go with an air cooled option.
 
I use PWM fan for case fans and control their speed the same way CPU and GPU control their PWM fan speeds, with PWM signal from mobo CPU fan header and GPU PCB fan header. If you want info on how to do it I can post a tutorial. ;)
 
The AP-14 is quiet (but not "nearly silent" by the silentPCreview standards - Within this fan series, you'd need the AP-13 for that). The AP-15 is simply quiet for the amount of air it moves.

I think the AP-14 is less noticeable than the TY-140, though the latter moves more air as a case fan.

I use: TY-140, AP-14, AP-15, and the 2150rpm Nidec version from the group-buy.

I prefer using the higher speed Nidec GT fans with a fan controller, but if I had no fan-control, then the AP-14 would be my pick, and using them at 12v will likely provide smooth operation (some fans make more noise at certain RPMs when using fan-controllers).

The TY-140 is good, but 2 of my 4 TY-140 fans have developed significantly more noise over the years. My GT fans are still excellent.

There are other good fans out there obviously. I just loaded up on GT fans when the prices were lower because I happen to really like their sound character. I think I got lucky and received good batches... some people were not as pleased as I am.
 
I have plenty of experience with the Silverstone FN18, 180mm, rated 100cfm @ '18dba' (which is probably not 100% true as with many such noise ratings)..

Real world, put them on a desk in front of you in a silent room, full 12V and you will struggle to hear them at all. That's without being mounted in a case with rubber matting etc.

I run two of them as case intake fans, with a passive scythe ninja pushing a 4.4ghz 2600k and an old 120mm metal frame sanace exhaust at 7v.. most PSU fans and spinning rust is louder.
 
Gentle Typhoon is 'silent' at <=1000rpm, the 1400rpm one is starting to push limit of 'quiet', many will probably call it quiet, many will also wish it was a bit quieter. The 1800rpm one is just not quiet. Maybe its not loud, and maybe quieter than some other fans that exist, but pretty much no 120mm fan at 1800rpm is going to be quiet.

Silentpcreview is also place to go for any information on fans. Don't even bother with other review sites when looking at fans.
 
My nosiest parts under normal work load are the hard disk drives, so I spin them down after 5 minutes of inactivity (system, games and caches on SSDs) . Then you can hear silence thanks to the Noctua fans (7 mind you).
 
cubsfan-budman said:
Thanks guys. Evilsofa, do you think that the AP-14 will move more air than my antecs?
Click to expand...

Note that Gentle Typhoons are optimized for use on radiators. Unless you have ultra-fine filters or are using them on a radiator, I would recommend something different for case fans.
 
Tsumi said:
Note that Gentle Typhoons are optimized for use on radiators. Unless you have ultra-fine filters or are using them on a radiator, I would recommend something different for case fans.
Click to expand...

This.

There are many better choices for case fans than the GT line, they will work as case fans, but there are others that will push more CFM at the same noise level than the GT fans.
 
With my 5 Aerocool 2000rpm fans around 5.1v and 800rpm on my 5.120mm radiator setup, for a single 2500K and 290, the SPL from my case at 1m is under ambient.

And the 2.38v/1m rating @ 40hz of my new subwoofer is well over 98db...

So it's really a non issue ;)

Your best bet is a fan controller, with a full 0-12v range. Find your happy medium.
 
It is true that the GT fans are suited more for pushing air through some restriction. Martin's early tests (showcasing the objectively measured dominance of the fan) utilized radiator mounting.

I still use them as case fans alongside my TY-140's just because they are my most reliable fan, and I have a bunch of them. They also seem to be able to push air through my bigass case... that static pressure is also good for directing air through ducts.

But yes, many other options...many of them much less expensive. I know a lot of people liked the Arctic F12 when it was about $7.
 
Archmage said:
I know a lot of people liked the Arctic F12 when it was about $7.
Click to expand...

The F12s are great fans and amazing bang for buck, Martin also did a review of them on a rad setup as well and they did really well with one of the least annoying sound profiles, he gave it one of the best bang for the buck rad fans as well, he said he was shocked at how close it was to the GT performance on a rad.
 
GeneO said:
My nosiest parts under normal work load are the hard disk drives, so I spin them down after 5 minutes of inactivity (system, games and caches on SSDs) . Then you can hear silence thanks to the Noctua fans (7 mind you).
Click to expand...

This.
My mechanical drive was the noisiest thing in my pc. It was good to pass on to my brother.
 
A fan without decent static pressure rating is like a day with no sun. It takes pressure to move air, even more to overcome grill, filter, HDD cage, cables, etc.

Think of CFM as driving 70mph and approaching a mountain. Think of static pressure as the reserve power to maintain 70mph right up and over the mountain.
 
Get some Arctic Cooling PWM fans and call it a day. They are a bargain a typical everyday prices, and even more so when you get a 10-20% off coupon in your email.
 
cubsfan-budman said:
I have some Antec case fans that I'd like to upgrade. They are the 3-speed (Tricool) models. At highest setting, they *should* be around 30db. That is too loud :)

They are somewhat old, so they may have degraded some, becoming louder (?).

I was considering Gentle Typhoon AP-14 or -15. The 15s are only 2db quieter. I know that each db is some fairly generous factor louder than the next...but in this case, will 28db be "quiet"/"silent"?

Thanks for the help! I might consider the AP-14s which are 7db quieter than the 15s, but obviously the air movement is less too...

C.
Click to expand...

I like AP-14's because you can run them at max speed and still be as quiet/move as much as you would the 15 on a controller and reduced. 14's are readily available also, 15's much harder to find. I also really like the AC F12's - great bang for the buck.
 
doyll said:
A fan without decent static pressure rating is like a day with no sun. It takes pressure to move air, even more to overcome grill, filter, HDD cage, cables, etc.

Think of CFM as driving 70mph and approaching a mountain. Think of static pressure as the reserve power to maintain 70mph right up and over the mountain.
Click to expand...

It doesn't exactly work like that. Tweaking between CFM and static pressure is like tweaking the final drive ratio on a car. A low ratio allows higher speed when there is no resistance, but significantly reduced speed when there is high resistance (regular heatsinks and grills count as low/minimal resistance, near zero). A high ratio has lower speed, but loses much less of that speed when high resistance is encountered (radiators, filters are medium to high resistance, depending).

It's more like going 100 mph on flat and 50 mph on the mountain vs 80 mph on flat and 65 mph on the mountain. But if it's just a hill, the low ratio will get 90 mph while the high ratio will get 75.
 
Tsumi said:
It doesn't exactly work like that. Tweaking between CFM and static pressure is like tweaking the final drive ratio on a car. A low ratio allows higher speed when there is no resistance, but significantly reduced speed when there is high resistance (regular heatsinks and grills count as low/minimal resistance, near zero). A high ratio has lower speed, but loses much less of that speed when high resistance is encountered (radiators, filters are medium to high resistance, depending).

It's more like going 100 mph on flat and 50 mph on the mountain vs 80 mph on flat and 65 mph on the mountain. But if it's just a hill, the low ratio will get 90 mph while the high ratio will get 75.
Click to expand...

The stuff I have read indicates that even normal mesh grills, let alone heat sinks, impede 'air flow' oriented fans pretty dramatically. There is not much that does not benefit from higher static pressures in a typical computer case.
 
Thanks again for all the conversation. Really great to get so many expert opinions. I ended up buying 2 Arctic F12s and a Thermalright 140mm for my top vent.

Another question. I think I'd like to replace my H60. How does it stack up, say, to a Nocuta NH-U12S?

I don't find much comparing AIOs to real heatsinks (probably because no one take AIO watercooling that seriously). Any reviews I've seen directly comparing Air Cooled vs. AIO only includes the H100.

What do you guys think of the difference in performance?

I currently have my i2500k oc'd to 4.5ghz. Idles @ 35c...under load, sits at 65-68c.

Thanks!
 
cubsfan-budman said:
Thanks again for all the conversation. Really great to get so many expert opinions. I ended up buying 2 Arctic F12s and a Thermalright 140mm for my top vent.

Another question. I think I'd like to replace my H60. How does it stack up, say, to a Nocuta NH-U12S?

I don't find much comparing AIOs to real heatsinks (probably because no one take AIO watercooling that seriously). Any reviews I've seen directly comparing Air Cooled vs. AIO only includes the H100.

What do you guys think of the difference in performance?

I currently have my i2500k oc'd to 4.5ghz. Idles @ 35c...under load, sits at 65-68c.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I would add a couple of F12's in push pull to that H60 and call it a day. Your temps are fine as is, and you will see some improvement over the stock fans in both noise and cooling ability. Plenty of people take the AIO's seriously, but really only when you start adding better fans to the them.
 
SilverSliver said:
I would add a couple of F12's in push pull to that H60 and call it a day. Your temps are fine as is, and you will see some improvement over the stock fans in both noise and cooling ability. Plenty of people take the AIO's seriously, but really only when you start adding better fans to the them.
Click to expand...

so, the pump on my H60 is driving me nuts...its getting so loud.

i am fairly satisfied with the performance, but this is a pretty old "V1" H60. not sure how to describe the sound that it makes...basically a fairly loud hum.

that's why i'm considering a noctua heatsink. i could get a new H60 though, if that's actually more effective.
 
SilverSliver said:
The stuff I have read indicates that even normal mesh grills, let alone heat sinks, impede 'air flow' oriented fans pretty dramatically. There is not much that does not benefit from higher static pressures in a typical computer case.
Click to expand...

Lack of proper testing would make those claims hard to prove.

cubsfan-budman said:
so, the pump on my H60 is driving me nuts...its getting so loud.

i am fairly satisfied with the performance, but this is a pretty old "V1" H60. not sure how to describe the sound that it makes...basically a fairly loud hum.

that's why i'm considering a noctua heatsink. i could get a new H60 though, if that's actually more effective.
Click to expand...

If you're looking at getting a new heatsink, I would say go with regular air-cooled if you can fit it in your case. You can't ever go wrong with the NH-D14, especially at the ~$65 price level it often drops to.
 
Tsumi said:
Lack of proper testing would make those claims hard to prove.



If you're looking at getting a new heatsink, I would say go with regular air-cooled if you can fit it in your case. You can't ever go wrong with the NH-D14, especially at the ~$65 price level it often drops to.
Click to expand...

I happen to have a used NH-D14 for sale also :D
 
The only parts in my system that make noise are a single Noctua NF-S12B and an Artic Accelero Extreme.

It's not silent. I want it to be quieter.

...but I've grudgingly come to accept that this is the quietest that it's going to get.
 
i wonder if the 360mm fans will ever take hold as great for the side access panel.


im hoping corsair will make a case featuring one of these.
 
Tsumi said:
It doesn't exactly work like that. Tweaking between CFM and static pressure is like tweaking the final drive ratio on a car. A low ratio allows higher speed when there is no resistance, but significantly reduced speed when there is high resistance (regular heatsinks and grills count as low/minimal resistance, near zero). A high ratio has lower speed, but loses much less of that speed when high resistance is encountered (radiators, filters are medium to high resistance, depending).

It's more like going 100 mph on flat and 50 mph on the mountain vs 80 mph on flat and 65 mph on the mountain. But if it's just a hill, the low ratio will get 90 mph while the high ratio will get 75.
Click to expand...
Having more static pressure in "reserve" gives us peace of mind in knowing we will have good airflow with or without resistance.

Here's another example using cfm and mm H2O:
  • If we have an 80cfm / 0.8mm H2O and an 80cfm / 2.5mm H2O
  • If we have 0.0mm H2O resistance both fans will be flowing about 80cfm.
  • If we have 0.2mm H2O resistance the 0.8mm H2O fan will flow about 62cfm and the 2.5mm H2O fan will be flowing 77cfm
  • If we have 0.5mm H2O resistance the 0.8mm H2O fan will flow about 30cfm and 2.5mm H2O fan will flow about 70cfm.
  • If we have 0.8mm H2O resistance the 0.8mm H2O fan will not flow any air and the 2.5mm H2O fan will still be flowing 60cfm.
Keep in mind this is using a linear graph of mm H2O : cfm and in reality this is not what the graph is, but it would be similar.. probably less than +/- 4cfm, and hopefully it explains why I consider having more static pressure as "reserve" performance.
 
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