![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
How much longer can AMD hold on????
- Thread starter -Cryptic-
- Start date
chrisewaters
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2006
- Messages
- 131
im not sure man, i hope they do but there graphics card was a piece of crap and intel just looks so string at the moment.
agreed.. but the 2900xt 1gb gddr4 seems tempting even though theres not that much of an improvement... but you do get bragging rights
mpcamer1220
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2003
- Messages
- 1,717
The irony.agreed.. but the 2900xt 1gb gddr4 seems tempting even though theres not that much of an improvement... but you do get bragging rights
AMD's problem is not costed by Intel' duo 2 core, but acquisition of ATI (overpayment). ATI probably misinformed AMD regarding its financial future.
As long as AMD has growth in its sales, it will survive. In order to increase its production to meet the market demand, AMD has outsourced some of its production line to a singapore semiconductor company. Therefore, AMD's financial situation will improve in 3rd and 4th quarters. I expect them to break even early next year.
On other hand, Intel is one should worry about its integrated graphic card market. It's not looking good for them.
As long as AMD has growth in its sales, it will survive. In order to increase its production to meet the market demand, AMD has outsourced some of its production line to a singapore semiconductor company. Therefore, AMD's financial situation will improve in 3rd and 4th quarters. I expect them to break even early next year.
On other hand, Intel is one should worry about its integrated graphic card market. It's not looking good for them.
welcome to 5 years ago
this is what AMD has always done nothing new here
they will ride the budget train till they can come up with some thing new and all will be well
MrWizard6600
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2006
- Messages
- 5,791
how long did intel hold on.... 3 years?
i met a diehard P4 fanboy in a css server... it was the funniest thing iv seen in a while
QFT
then Intel will come up with some awsome newtechnology and leapfrog AMD again...
and the cycle will continue!
i met a diehard P4 fanboy in a css server... it was the funniest thing iv seen in a while
QFT
then Intel will come up with some awsome newtechnology and leapfrog AMD again...
and the cycle will continue!
Manny Calavera
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2004
- Messages
- 3,986
You are eithier joking or being facetious,or are completely out of touch with reality.
MrWizard6600
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2006
- Messages
- 5,791
You are eithier joking or being facetious,or are completely out of touch with reality.
690 outperforms Nvidias 6150, which, as far as I can tell, outperforms all of intels offerings. So, If AMD does decide to make chipsets for LGA 775, Intel might be in trouble. I mean, I luuuuv DFI's ICFX 3200 TR/2 board. Anand got to review it, in the beta bios, you were allowed to enter a max value of 511MHz FSB. Do you know what OC Anand was able to get? 511MHz FSB lol.
Master_Pain
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2007
- Messages
- 4,947
Company's can survive running a negative balance for years, it's all in how they handle their accounting. Just look at Shop-ko
Is this a joke? So you're saying that AMD found itself in a price war with....who? Who was it then that produced a better chip that forced AMD to slash their prices to stay competitive? Who was it that forced AMD to accept almost nothing in terms of revenue for their processors?
The purchase of ATi is a very good thing for AMD, but the timing wasn't. It's not like AMD could have forseen this resurgence by Intel, which is why they are in a tough spot right now. I'm confident that AMD will do just fine, even if they are bought by another firm.
I'm glad that at the very least these threads aren't coming up each day like they did a few months ago.
WintersFury
Gawd
- Joined
- May 19, 2007
- Messages
- 555
These threads always amuse me. It's not like the buying decisions of the Enthusiast market can make or break a company.
And has been said above, this is the situation AMD was in a few years back. And I know people are still buying AMD processors every day still, including enthusiasts. I doubt they will be closing their doors anytime soon.
And has been said above, this is the situation AMD was in a few years back. And I know people are still buying AMD processors every day still, including enthusiasts. I doubt they will be closing their doors anytime soon.
Company's can survive running a negative balance for years, it's all in how they handle their accounting. Just look at Shop-ko
Or Ford...
Or GM...
Or Chrysler...
AMD doesn't have a negative balance; they have money in the bank and tons (too much, if you ask me) credit. They're losing money, which means their profit is negative, not their balance.
Price and performance are irrenevant. Where AMD loses, and has always lost, is volume. Intel outsells AMD in the desktop processor market something like six-to-one. Even after AMD bought ATI (an ill-advised move, according to some analysts), Intel still sells more graphics chips because the integrated graphics market is so big. Intel has far more diverse business lines than AMD does, and that leaves Intel with ten times the revenues.
AMD does not make flash memory. They sold their products and IP to Spansion a couple of years ago. Intel continues to make flash products.
What makes AMD's situation unhopeful is that they need to spend more money to make more money. Their fab plants are outdated, and too few. They need to spend more money on research and development just to keep up, and more money on marketing, and so on.
Financially, Intel has always been ahead of AMD.
Price and performance are irrenevant. Where AMD loses, and has always lost, is volume. Intel outsells AMD in the desktop processor market something like six-to-one. Even after AMD bought ATI (an ill-advised move, according to some analysts), Intel still sells more graphics chips because the integrated graphics market is so big. Intel has far more diverse business lines than AMD does, and that leaves Intel with ten times the revenues.
AMD does not make flash memory. They sold their products and IP to Spansion a couple of years ago. Intel continues to make flash products.
What makes AMD's situation unhopeful is that they need to spend more money to make more money. Their fab plants are outdated, and too few. They need to spend more money on research and development just to keep up, and more money on marketing, and so on.
Financially, Intel has always been ahead of AMD.
brucedeluxe169
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2004
- Messages
- 3,720
i dont think they can hold on much longer, I think their next move will be into the video game console area, that is the only logical thing. Take the ATI guys to make the console's video hardware, and write the games, and AMD guys make the CPU
by 2010, AMD will dominate the video games market and leave the computer processor market for good
by 2010, AMD will dominate the video games market and leave the computer processor market for good
True, but AMD's cash is dwindling, even after the net $1.5 billion infusion earlier this year. If AMD were to start selling off necessary assets to pay debts (if it were to run out of cash, something AMD warns of in SEC filings), it's a downward spiral from there to AMD's bankruptcy.
---
To whoever said this is the same as AMD 5 years ago:
There is a big difference between now and then. AMD has much more debt and AMD's financial and market share losses are much higher than ever. AMD on the cusp of K8 could be pretty confident. AMD still tries to put on a confident face before Barcelona launch, but it's for no good. It's launching at extreme performance disadvantages, and is being priced to compete. Those prices are depressing AMD's margins and leading to huge losses, draining cash and putting AMD in even more debt.
AMD could have bottomed out for market share losses in Q1 (AMD's biggest share was retail, which dropped from ~80% to 45% in 1 year). An aggressive Intel CPU development schedule and process technology advantages could cause the kind of pain we've seen in the last year every year or two for the forseeable future. In that case, the "war" is going to be fought multi-year with AMD sliding every year. Focusing on a very short term (ZOMG Barcelona will save AMD) is not looking at the big picture.
TomGreen321
Gawd
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2007
- Messages
- 901
What are you talking about? This sounds like a really stupid thing to do when they are already losing money.
alg7_munif
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2006
- Messages
- 5,862
Wow! It seems that we have more financial and CPU engineering experts here than AMD have working with them They should look for experts to work with them in forums Too bad the experts here didn't get any payment but the experts at AMD get paid thousands each month...
They should look for experts to work with them in forums Too bad the experts here didn't get any payment but the experts at AMD get paid thousands each month...brucedeluxe169
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2004
- Messages
- 3,720
nah dude, thats how they are going to do it, I've read many of their research documents and it seems the path they will be taking is game consoles --> embedded devices like cell phones and PDAs, then from there they will dominate the hardware of the devices and then make a bid for the data (like the wireless carriers and telecommunications companies that deliver said data). AMD will buy out most of the communications firms and become what MS and google have only dreamed of, and of course leaving Intel with the marginal (by then) CPU sales.
I think the Inquirer is trying to find themselves new writers/researchers, why don't you go apply?
Tangent inc.
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2006
- Messages
- 398
the best part about this kind of war: when intel was king trough the early 90's they stopped and aggressive research plan. this is inherent when you make money, you need to reroute funds (often) away from research to gain profit when a successful product is released. amd is in the works to come back as can be seen by huge price cuts. this allows the budget to remain stable while profit is low and money is diverted to research in a flee to design competitive products.
only the console market looses money, like some were stating above because there bills are paid in licensing fees. a console always relies on a title to sell not on the console itself. now pc games definitely sell parts, no argument but the gamer/power user market is tiny in the scope of semiconductor pie charts abroad.
i feel the ati purchase was worth doing. they bought tech rights and research teams not fabs and raw materials. eventually this tech will evolve into integrated graphics on the cpu level which is the next huge leap in this ever expanding market. intel is also going this route, designing a discrete gpu of there own. amd also went to a price/performance stand on graphics which makes a ton of sense. the middle is where the money is at. sure the new stuff from amd is not great but this new idea from them needs to be polished and refined.
intel will always have an edge on throughput over amd. the industrial and integrated systems market is larger then the consumer side by multiples and thats life.
sad but in the end its all about the money so the ratios are what really matter, staying in budget and finding the next great thing. the teeter toter will define top dog for ever.
only the console market looses money, like some were stating above because there bills are paid in licensing fees. a console always relies on a title to sell not on the console itself. now pc games definitely sell parts, no argument but the gamer/power user market is tiny in the scope of semiconductor pie charts abroad.
i feel the ati purchase was worth doing. they bought tech rights and research teams not fabs and raw materials. eventually this tech will evolve into integrated graphics on the cpu level which is the next huge leap in this ever expanding market. intel is also going this route, designing a discrete gpu of there own. amd also went to a price/performance stand on graphics which makes a ton of sense. the middle is where the money is at. sure the new stuff from amd is not great but this new idea from them needs to be polished and refined.
intel will always have an edge on throughput over amd. the industrial and integrated systems market is larger then the consumer side by multiples and thats life.
sad but in the end its all about the money so the ratios are what really matter, staying in budget and finding the next great thing. the teeter toter will define top dog for ever.
This sounds so absolutely retarded. It is like Berkshire Hathaway going from making textiles to becoming the largest investment firm in the world...except you don't have a genius like Buffet, you have a loser like Ruiz.
I just stepped onto the rofflecopter.
WintersFury
Gawd
- Joined
- May 19, 2007
- Messages
- 555
Dude... you must be on the good stuff... I'm not sure what it is, but it's gotta be good if your thinking that...I think I feel a monkey ... coming out of my butt.
It's false that Intel stopped (or even slowed down) research in the 90s. And it's false that slowing investment in R+D follows the release of a single successful product.
You've also got the reason they're cutting prices wrong. AMD has cut prices to try to increase volume. If a chip costs $50 to make, they'd rather sell two at $90 than one at $100.
That's exactly where they went wrong. They're desperately in need of fab plants.
Say Dell suddenly calls AMD and says they want to release a new line of Dell boxes with AMD chips. The only thing AMD needs to do is guarantee that they can deliver the massive quantities Dell needs -- on time, on quality. AMD simply can't: they don't have the capital investment. And they don't have the money to buy or build the plants they need.
Wow! It seems that we have more financial and CPU engineering experts here than AMD have working with them
tornadotsunamilife
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2004
- Messages
- 2,492
The way I see it is Barcelona will do pretty well in the server market for AMD but whether it will be enough to keep it going in other markets I haven't a clue
The only issue with the cycle theory is that Barcelona was suppose to be that turn in the cycle where AMD regains the crown and thus far, there is little reason to be optomistic.
HiTech-Hate
Gawd
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2002
- Messages
- 986
Uhm, AMD has a very strong foothold in the solid state memory market ... they don't just make CPU's.
I don't see how it matters if Intel is beating them in the processor market right now because, as I said, AMD is making revenue in other markets. And besides, a company can sit in the red for years and years as long as they have a large enough fiscal portfolio.
I don't see how it matters if Intel is beating them in the processor market right now because, as I said, AMD is making revenue in other markets. And besides, a company can sit in the red for years and years as long as they have a large enough fiscal portfolio.
You sure about that? I know this was true a few years ago, but last I read, AMD got out of that market completely to focus their resources on CPU manufacturing.
AMD still has a 20% stake in Spansion. AMD also has quite a bit of business in Consumer Electronics by way of ATI.
GMoney42392
Gawd
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2005
- Messages
- 722
please, do tell
A quick trip to the bottom of this page and you'll see how AMD's other divisions did.
Computer solutions lost 258 million.
Graphics lost 50 million.
Consumer electronics lost 22 million.
Then you'll see another 127 million lost under "All Other."
If you scroll up you'll see AMD's losses in Spansion. Spansion has also been losing money.
So you're right. AMD does have other divisions and they're all losing money. Add 99 million spent in interest last quarter and a couple of million here and there and you get the 600 million loss. It's not enough to just be green, they need to make green, and soon.
Well that's good for them I suppose, but they'll need a lot more than that to keep their head above water. Afterall, they did just post a $600 million loss.