B00nie
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2012
- Messages
- 9,327
Here's a youtube video which lets you compare sounds from different sources and try to figure out if you can hear a difference between 25 dollar and 1500 dollar DAC among many other tests.
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from my experience, the dac makes almost no difference for headphones. However, there is definitely a difference between cheap and expensive preamps when recording with a microphone. The amplifier makes a bigger but still mostly small difference in headphone quality. Is it powerful enough? If so, the quality of the sound is so small between different amps.
However, buying an external dac is certainly worth the money to separate the chipset away from the motherboard which creates annoying interference
What's crazy is people buying stuff like Chord Dave ($11,000) or the MSB Select DAC ($90,000) as the front-end for their IEMS or headphones. I can't see any justification for dropping that much on the digital to analog converter, pre-amping!
In fact I'm willing to wager neither of those DACs would outperform an under-2k Chinese-built DAC like the Audio-GD NFB-7.77 (dual ESS Sabre 9038Pros) in a scientifically measured test.
At a certain point, you hit a ceiling of sorts. While certain DACs/Headphone Amps/etc. might technically deliver better sound, the average person wouldn't be able to tell the difference. That ceiling, at least in my experience, seems to be about ~$900 for a small DAC or a headphone Amp (at least to my ears). Generally, if your headphones have a nominal impedance of, say, 300 ohms and your DAC/AMP can deliver that, then you're probably set. There are always exceptions, but I really wonder about people who drop tens of thousands on certain audio components, especially if they are listening to a fully digital source.
A lot also depends on your listening environment, and the end of your system, being headphones or speakers. You can't drop a few hundred dollars on a DAC or amp and expect to get better sound out of the headphones that came with your phone, or a set of speakers you picked up for $50. When you start getting really serious about your audio, you have to consider things you never thought you would, like the quality of the electricity coming into your home, acoustic isolation, cable-run lengths, and even humidity if you're running vinyl. Audio is one of those things that, if you are in a position to spend a lot of money on it, either learn the hobby yourself or hire a professional that knows what they are doing. You can't just throw money at one piece of a very intricate puzzle and expect it to solve itself.
The problem with a lot of users is that they are running a very standard/average audio setup and they spend a ton of money on one aspect of it, like a DAC or an amp, and expect to be blown away by the audio. When they aren't, they tell all their friends that this kind of equipment is a waste of money. Take my brother for instance: He bought a pair of Sennheiser HD700 headphones back when they retailed for closer to $800. I mentioned to him that he would need to buy a proper headphone amp to use them properly. What does he do? He buys a sub-$50 amplifier from FIIO that has a nominal output impedance of roughly 50 ohms. The HD700's are rated at 150 ohms. For the longest time, he was convinced that he had been ripped off by Sennheiser and that high end audio was a gimmick. Finally, he flew down to LA and I told him to bring his headphones. I hooked them up to my Beyerdynamic A20 which is rated for up to 600ohms and played some vinyl for him. Suffice it to say, he is more than convinced now and has bought a proper amp/dac.
Example #2: My Dad bought a pair of KEF reference towers for about ~$20,000 a year ago. He runs separate amps for them, has an high-end power conditioner, and connects them to a ~$5,000 NAIM DAC. What does he ultimately put through his system? Apple Music and Spotify. It makes me want to put my head through a wall.
Apple music and Spotify premium are not that bad. Apple uses it's own compression algorithm that's pretty efficient and produces good results. Most people (if any) will not find a difference between them and a 24-bit hd recording in a double blind test.
Having said that spotify free is complete waste. It is so bandwith limited that it doesn't contain any bass below 50hz among other things.
The difference between a well compressed and non compressed recording is diminishing and probably one of the last things to worry about in the total chain. If you listen in a non-treated room for example, treating that room (correctly I might add) is going to improve your sound at least 100x more than the uncompressed source.
They're definitely not that bad. I use Spotify regularly on my phone for car-listening. My point was more that it is a bit of a waste spending ass-loads of money on an audio setup if you're running that kind of music through it. I also lean more toward analog sources over digital, which is probably why I shy away from any of those services from home-listening. That's just personal preference though.
I'm in the middle of treating my room at home right now with some mid-range paneling, with some minor professional consulting, and have already noticed a massive difference - way more than I thought I would. I remember the day I added Vinyl to my setup and being blown away by the difference. I never thought I'd get a feeling like that again until the panels went up.
My experience is that a dac can certainly change the sound. A solid state vs a tube dac for example. You roll different tubes in there and of course the sound signature changes. I would never spend more than $2K on a dac though. I find most dacs around $200-500 are 98% as good as anything else.
Find someone who has measuring gear and take RT60 and room mode measurements of your room. Bass treatment is usually the biggest thing. Study limp mass absorbers to treat the inevitable room modes. The 20-400hz region contains most of the energy of cello, double bass, male voice etc. and are the costliest to treat. So my advice is be very careful on installing too many thin wool/foam absorbers. You need to have at least 10 inches of foam/wool and an air gap behind the panel to absorb the lower octaves.
Too much thin absorption will only cut the high frequencies and make your room sound dead, heavy and dull.
The quality of Apple audio is already so high that it's not a significant bottleneck on a 50 000 dollar audio system. It's more a question of preference. Of course it's very cheap to switch to non-compressed audio if one prefers that. But I can't really blame your relative for being happy with compressed source audio either. If he likes it, no problem!
Tubes introduce a LOT of harmonic distortion to the play so naturally they sound different. Most people prefer a sound with a lot of harmonic distortion as it makes the sound warmer. That's all there is to it. The actual conversion - you'll most likely won't hear a difference.
People who use regular speakers in non-treated rooms are listening to treble attack heavy sound with way too much high frequency radiant energy. In those conditions it's not surprising to search for something that will soften the upper register. Cue in tubes.