How is this rig?

[Ditch]

I am putting together the following as upgrades to 2 of my PC's, with one getting a new case and a new monitor. Both are getting speaker upgrades, going from 2.1 to 5.1. So, I will not list CD drive, floppy, Vantec rounded cables, etc. since they don't matter. But please, anyone tell me what you think and let me know if you see any compatibility issues or other improvements I could do. I conducted a lot of research and this is what I came up with, which will make pretty state-of-the-art rigs for now. Newegg is my source of course since they have never let me down in many years of building PC's. I will not be overclocking or using the SLI function since I am paying a lot for these 2 systems, but not so much that I want to buy 4 video cards.

AMD Athlon 64 4000+ - OEM (I am partial to AMD)
Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe - Retail (nForce 4 is the way to go I believe)
Corsair XMS Twin1024, 512MBx2, DDR400 PC3200, Non-ECC, Unbuff, 2-3-3-6 T1 - Retail
Antec Plus1080AMG Case w/430W PS - Retail (I already have 3 of these and I love them)
Asus ATI Radeon X850 XT Video Card 256MB GDDR3 - Retail
Maxtor 300GB 7200 RPM SATA 150 HD w/16MB Buffer!, 6B300S0 - OEM
Viewsonic E90FB 19" PerfectFlat CRT Monitor - Retail (Not willing to spend for LCD's)
Zalman CNPS7700-CU CPU Cooler - Retail
Altec Lansing GT5051 5.1 Speaker System - Retail (Not willing to spend for Klipsch, etc.)
Vantec Thermoflow Variable Speed 80mm Case Fans, TF8025 - Retail
Belkin 5-Socket Power Center, F9M520-08-GRY - Retail

Also, I am getting 2 new HD's for my other 2 older systems, to replace smaller EIDE drives, so anyone let me know if you heard anything bad about these:

Hitachi 250GB 7200RPM SATA HD w/8MB Buffer, HDS722525VLSA80 - OEM

Coolling Questions I have about this setup:

1) Which Zalman is best and why is the CNPS7000A-Cu $20 more from newegg than the one I have listed above?

2) Is there a better 80mm case fan I should consider other than the Vantec? It seems to do really well for the price ($7.49), up to 3400RPM and up to 41.6 CFM with a noise level that should not be too bad.

3) I want to buy 2 of these case fans per PC (the 1080AMG case comes with 3, 2 out and 1 in on the side). Should I switch the 2 out fans on the back with the better ones I buy or use them to pull air in at the front? What I am asking is, is it more important to have better air movement out than coming in? I think it makes sense that way.

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[slamgoku]

I am putting together the following as upgrades to 2 of my PC's, with one getting a new case and a new monitor. Both are getting speaker upgrades, going from 2.1 to 5.1. So, I will not list CD drive, floppy, Vantec rounded cables, etc. since they don't matter. But please, anyone tell me what you think and let me know if you see any compatibility issues or other improvements I could do. I conducted a lot of research and this is what I came up with, which will make pretty state-of-the-art rigs for now. Newegg is my source of course since they have never let me down in many years of building PC's. I will not be overclocking or using the SLI function since I am paying a lot for these 2 systems, but not so much that I want to buy 4 video cards.

AMD Athlon 64 4000+ - OEM (I am partial to AMD)
Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe - Retail (nForce 4 is the way to go I believe)
Corsair XMS Twin1024, 512MBx2, DDR400 PC3200, Non-ECC, Unbuff, 2-3-3-6 T1 - Retail
Antec Plus1080AMG Case w/430W PS - Retail (I already have 3 of these and I love them)
Asus ATI Radeon X850 XT Video Card 256MB GDDR3 - Retail
Maxtor 300GB 7200 RPM SATA 150 HD w/16MB Buffer!, 6B300S0 - OEM
Viewsonic E90FB 19" PerfectFlat CRT Monitor - Retail (Not willing to spend for LCD's)
Zalman CNPS7700-CU CPU Cooler - Retail
Altec Lansing GT5051 5.1 Speaker System - Retail (Not willing to spend for Klipsch, etc.)
Vantec Thermoflow Variable Speed 80mm Case Fans, TF8025 - Retail
Belkin 5-Socket Power Center, F9M520-08-GRY - Retail

Also, I am getting 2 new HD's for my other 2 older systems, to replace smaller EIDE drives, so anyone let me know if you heard anything bad about these:

Hitachi 250GB 7200RPM SATA HD w/8MB Buffer, HDS722525VLSA80 - OEM

Coolling Questions I have about this setup:

1) Which Zalman is best and why is the CNPS7000A-Cu $20 more from newegg than the one I have listed above?

2) Is there a better 80mm case fan I should consider other than the Vantec? It seems to do really well for the price ($7.49), up to 3400RPM and up to 41.6 CFM with a noise level that should not be too bad.

3) I want to buy 2 of these case fans per PC (the 1080AMG case comes with 3, 2 out and 1 in on the side). Should I switch the 2 out fans on the back with the better ones I buy or use them to pull air in at the front? What I am asking is, is it more important to have better air movement out than coming in? I think it makes sense that way.

Thanks in advance for your help.

that basically looks like a new pc altogether

 

[slamgoku]

and all the stuff ur buyin i wish i had that cash to burn lol excellent choices for parts too. wish i had a 4000+

 

[Ditch]

Thanks slamgoku. They are like new PC's, because I have had 3 PC's on an annual upgrade cycle for several years now. I am now adding a 4th PC to my LAN. My wife and I play with our kids all the time. My wife and I always have the 2 newest PC's and I cycle the 2 older ones to the kids, usually with a small upgrade like a new HD or newer video card, etc. It is expensive, but I love to build and I love to play. So, they are like new, but the older ones are still getting used too. It leaves me with 2 state-of-the-art PC's and 2 that are only 1-year old. After that, I have rebuilt systems for my n-laws from the 2-year old PC's, which by then are not so fast anymore, but good enough for their word processing and minor gaming.

 

[Epicenter]

I'd advise taking the CPU down to a 3200+ Venice which are insanely overclockable anyway. With how cool they run and a Zalman CNPS7000-AlCu you can probably get an insane overclock out of one. For RAM, all you need is Kingston ValueRAM DDR400/PC3200, 2 512 MB sticks. The low latency stuff makes no tangible difference.

For the board, go with a DFI NF4 Ultra-D if you want to overclock, which it sounds like you do. Also, I'd switch the video card for a 6800GT, X800XL or 6600GT if you want a better value. X850XTs are a real ripoff in terms of price to performance. I'd advise the nVidia options if you want to save a lot of money and overclock up to the next performance level.

I'd change the hard disk for 2 Seagate 7200 RPM 160 GB disks (in case one dies eventually, god forbid, you lose less.) These disks are MUCH quieter, more reliable, and VERY fast.

Enjoy the machine.

 

[slamgoku]

I'd advise taking the CPU down to a 3200+ Venice which are insanely overclockable anyway. With how cool they run and a Zalman CNPS7000-AlCu you can probably get an insane overclock out of one. For RAM, all you need is Kingston ValueRAM DDR400/PC3200, 2 512 MB sticks. The low latency stuff makes no tangible difference.

For the board, go with a DFI NF4 Ultra-D if you want to overclock, which it sounds like you do. Also, I'd switch the video card for a 6800GT, X800XL or 6600GT if you want a better value. X850XTs are a real ripoff in terms of price to performance. I'd advise the nVidia options if you want to save a lot of money and overclock up to the next performance level.

I'd change the hard disk for 2 Seagate 7200 RPM 160 GB disks (in case one dies eventually, god forbid, you lose less.) These disks are MUCH quieter, more reliable, and VERY fast.

Enjoy the machine.

I love mine to death.

 

[lithium726]

guys, dont quote huge blocks of text and then write one sentence... its annoying

anyway, the reason the 7000A-Cu is more expensive is becuase its out of production (im guessing), it was replaced by teh B version, which cooled a bit better and is a lighter version.

if you are going for completly state of the art PC's, i suggest waiting just a bit to purchase taht 4000+. there is a new core revision coming out for teh 4000+, codenamed San Diego (it should be avaliable may 6th). it has new features (such as SSE2/3, improved memory controller, and 90nm process for lower operating temperatures). i think i heard somewhere taht it would be slightly less expensive too, as teh FX-57 and 4200+ are coming out soon (few months). the new core revisions are overclocking like bats out of hell too

(not that you care )

i dont know if many of the issues with teh asus SLI board have been hammered out, but there were alot of them when it came out - and i have heard good things about teh MSI board... although i do wonder why you have chosen to go wtih an SLI board, you have an ATI card selected, which means you are paying a premium for a technology(SLI) you wont use - its only compatable with nvidia cards.

personally, this generation, im partial to nvidia's video cards. since you are going high end, i would pick up an ultra - better price (they can be had for 400 dollars sometimes if you find a good sale

) and typically overclock quite well... and then you will always have the option to go SLI if you need some more power. they also feature a better feature set (ie, SM3.0, which regardless of waht some people on this board tell you, does make a difference and is capable of some pretty cool things which teh x8X0 series isnt capable of.)

i dont think the 430 will have enough power to run this rig reliably... you would likely be running that supply on edge.. waht are the amperage ratings of the supply?

contrary to waht epiccenter said, i can feel a difference wtih low latency ram. they system just feels "snappier". of course, this is completly subjective, and cannot be tested with any benchmarks - much like intel's Hyperthreading.

for fans, i am partial to Zalmans - and in particuar, silence. i personally like the ZM-F1 fans for 80mm, and i believe the F2 is 92mm, ect.

edit: also, i always buy the retail versions of processors, just in case i have to RMA it to AMD.

 

[mavalpha]

You already mentioned the PSU, damn! The guys at DFI-Street recommend 480W or higher for 939, and also advise a bare minimum of 28A on the 12V rail for a single video card. I can vouch for that, between my 450W Cooler Master and its 22A split-rail. It isn't enough to power my overclocked 754 and 6800, so I'm trying to get a (480W) NeoPower instead- gotta love the 33 or so amps! On a budget, the Blue Storm is the way to go. Otherwise, get a PowerStream, PCP&C, or other some such extravagant supply.

 

[slamgoku]

You already mentioned the PSU, damn! The guys at DFI-Street recommend 480W or higher for 939, and also advise a bare minimum of 28A on the 12V rail for a single video card. I can vouch for that, between my 450W Cooler Master and its 22A split-rail. It isn't enough to power my overclocked 754 and 6800, so I'm trying to get a (480W) NeoPower instead- gotta love the 33 or so amps! On a budget, the Blue Storm is the way to go. Otherwise, get a PowerStream, PCP&C, or other some such extravagant supply.

i have a 520 W powerstream. I highly recommend it

 

[lithium726]

on the contrary, i have the neopower, and it rocks. its less expensive than the powerstream 520, about 100-110. as a previous poster mentioned, 33a on dual 12v rails is nothing to scoff at

 

[Andrew_Carr]

I'd drop the mobo for dfi's non-sli nforce 4 board, get vx ram, an x800xl if you want to cut costs on the video card(although i'd rather have the xt).

And imo, i'd rather have a raptor than a 300gb maxtor, but i've been living off 36gb for years now, and I suppose that 73gb would be a horrible step down for you, despite the speed increase.

 

[lithium726]

ok people, read his damn post

I will not be overclocking or using the SLI function

hes NOT overclocking. he doesnt need the DFI board, or VX ram, or TCCD or anything like that - he just needs something that will be speedy at stock. he doesnt need the SLI board, which will take the price down a little

 

[Andrew_Carr]

What a pity :*(

Screw vx ram, get value ram like the previous poster said, get an msi motherboard, get the xt for longevity, and raid two smaller hard drives for performance and security.




I can't think of anything there now that's originally my idea, but it sums it up pretty well.

 

[slamgoku]

ok people, read his damn post


hes NOT overclocking. he doesnt need the DFI board, or VX ram, or TCCD or anything like that - he just needs something that will be speedy at stock. he doesnt need the SLI board, which will take the price down a little

i think the parts he is getting r good. if he has the cash for it no reason for him not to get it. i wish i had that kinda cash personally.

 

[lithium726]

i think the parts he is getting r good. if he has the cash for it no reason for him not to get it. i wish i had that kinda cash personally.

um... it wasnt directed at you... it was directed to the people suggesting overclocking parts... i dont see why you would think that was directed at you...

For the board, go with a DFI NF4 Ultra-D if you want to overclock, which it sounds like you do.

I'd drop the mobo for dfi's non-sli nforce 4 board, get vx ram

 

[slamgoku]

um... it wasnt directed at you... it was directed to the people suggesting overclocking parts... i dont see why you would think that was directed at you...

cuz people always direct at me lol

 

[LionKinG88]

I am putting together the following as upgrades to 2 of my PC's, with one getting a new case and a new monitor. Both are getting speaker upgrades, going from 2.1 to 5.1. So, I will not list CD drive, floppy, Vantec rounded cables, etc. since they don't matter. But please, anyone tell me what you think and let me know if you see any compatibility issues or other improvements I could do. I conducted a lot of research and this is what I came up with, which will make pretty state-of-the-art rigs for now. Newegg is my source of course since they have never let me down in many years of building PC's. I will not be overclocking or using the SLI function since I am paying a lot for these 2 systems, but not so much that I want to buy 4 video cards.

AMD Athlon 64 4000+ - OEM (I am partial to AMD)
Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe - Retail (nForce 4 is the way to go I believe)
Corsair XMS Twin1024, 512MBx2, DDR400 PC3200, Non-ECC, Unbuff, 2-3-3-6 T1 - Retail
Antec Plus1080AMG Case w/430W PS - Retail (I already have 3 of these and I love them)
Asus ATI Radeon X850 XT Video Card 256MB GDDR3 - Retail
Maxtor 300GB 7200 RPM SATA 150 HD w/16MB Buffer!, 6B300S0 - OEM
Viewsonic E90FB 19" PerfectFlat CRT Monitor - Retail (Not willing to spend for LCD's)
Zalman CNPS7700-CU CPU Cooler - Retail
Altec Lansing GT5051 5.1 Speaker System - Retail (Not willing to spend for Klipsch, etc.)
Vantec Thermoflow Variable Speed 80mm Case Fans, TF8025 - Retail
Belkin 5-Socket Power Center, F9M520-08-GRY - Retail

Also, I am getting 2 new HD's for my other 2 older systems, to replace smaller EIDE drives, so anyone let me know if you heard anything bad about these:

Hitachi 250GB 7200RPM SATA HD w/8MB Buffer, HDS722525VLSA80 - OEM

Coolling Questions I have about this setup:

1) Which Zalman is best and why is the CNPS7000A-Cu $20 more from newegg than the one I have listed above?

2) Is there a better 80mm case fan I should consider other than the Vantec? It seems to do really well for the price ($7.49), up to 3400RPM and up to 41.6 CFM with a noise level that should not be too bad.

3) I want to buy 2 of these case fans per PC (the 1080AMG case comes with 3, 2 out and 1 in on the side). Should I switch the 2 out fans on the back with the better ones I buy or use them to pull air in at the front? What I am asking is, is it more important to have better air movement out than coming in? I think it makes sense that way.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Wow that seems powerful

 

[Ditch]

Everyone, thanks for the great replies and discussions. As lithium726 said though, I am not overclocking nor am I going to use 2 video cards. Here are my reasons. With 4 PC's to build and maintain and a strong desire to play all the kick ass games with everything maxed out, I would rather spend more time playing than trying to overclock and make stable 4 PC's. Also, as I said, I am spending a buttload enough already to have some of the best my money can buy. So, getting 2 cards when nothing out there really supports it yet (and probably won't until I get ready to upgrade again next year) is not justified when 1 state-of-the-art card can do just fine. I love Asus boards, the BIOS I am familiar with and wanted to opt for the nForce chipset. I looked at and researched the Asus A8V-E as well, but the K8T890 just doesn't cut it where the nForce does. Also, I honestly didn't put much thought into considering any other brand of board since Asus has never let me down.

Here are some reviews/opinions of the A8N-SLI Deluxe I found, all very positive for the most part:

Tom's Hardware

ExtremeTech Killer Gaming Rig: 2005

A1 Electronics.net

Gamespot hardware

Lost Circuits

In response to Epicenter re: going down to a 3200+, note that I am not overclocking. Also, I get PC Gamer and CGW magazines and The Vede in PC Gamer recently mentioned that the 4000+ CPU is really the FX-53 with a new name. That surprised me, but also it more than justified my choice to get it.

In response to lithium726 on several issues from post #7:

- I will have to check out the new 4000+ core and consider waiting. That is upcoming fast and may be worth the wait, but at what cost? I had read some things about San Diego, but couldn't find anything with a date.

- I never read anything about any issues with that mobo so I am not sure what you are talking about. They seem to be fixed, because many of the recent reviews, including some I posted, all rave about how they love the A8N-SLI Deluxes they have. That is not a bad comment coming from some of the hardware review sources out there. Can you point to any specific references?

- I think I answered the "why you have chosen to go with an SLI board" question above. But, simply, 3 big reasons are 1) Asus, 2) nForce, and 3) the board overall seemed to score slightly better than other comparable boards in many benchmarks. Sticking with Asus I don't want to go to the A8V-E and if I didn't stick with Asus, I don't think any other board with nForce can offer me anything more based on my trust in Asus and their reliability.

- I will check out that SM3.0 feature you were talking about on the nvidia card. I assume that is a 6800 GT? For the past several years, I have stuck with ATI and recently read something with benchmarks that had ATI still edging over nvidia, using each of their latest cards, but I can't find it now. I will think about it and look for more comparisons to see.

- I figured 430 would be enough because I have no PCI cards, only one hard drive, only one video card, one CD-ROM, one burner, and probably 3-4 usb devices. Here are the specs (that case has a True430 PS):

True430 Specs

- I agree about the RAM. I like low latency and I think it makes a big difference. Cheap, crappy RAM in a good system just won't cut it. I am also going with RAM that is actually listed by Asus for the A8N-SLI Deluxe which I have not done in the past. I do always get Corsair though since they too have never let me down.

- I will check out that Zalman ZM-F1 80mm fan to consider for my case fans. No one ever answered me about whether or not it is better to push out with a good fan, or pull in with one. Anyone?

- I have never bought a retail CPU because I think on most of them, the warranty is void if you do not use the provided generic paste or pad and the fan that comes with it. I always just went OEM and have done well so far.

- That was a lot of good info and many more things to consider, so thanks lithium726.

In response to mavalpha re: the PS, I will check out that recommendation to use at least 480. The True430 has 26A on the +12V. If that is the situation, I will still get the case I love, but just buy 2 True550's maybe and swap them. The 550 will be more than enough and I definitely don't want any power concerns. My 2 older PC's run on Asus K8V's and the True430 is enough for them, especially with no PCI cards except for a modem in one rig and I have ATI Radeon 9800XT's in them. Good advice to go with a bigger PS I think I will take, for these new rigs. I may check into the neopower lithium726 mentioned as well, since its 12V amperage is higher than the True550.

In response to Andrew_Carr re: the raptors. I need space dude. Even though I would love to have 10,000rpm goodness, I need more space. Going SATA150 should give me a little more repsonse time than I am used to, so overall it is a good thing. I always have a lot of games loaded and could easily fill 150GB right now. My wife and kids and I like to have options on what to play, and our desires vary from time to time, day by day. I chose to go to one hard drive because I was having a hard time keeping one of my current rigs (with the K8V I mentioned above) cool and I think it had a lot to do with airflow in my case. There is some wire clutter, even with rounded cables and I think 2 hard drives block quite a bit of the air coming in across them while adding to the heat reaching the video card and the rest of the mobo. So, with only one HD, I will partition it, C for OS and downloads and D for games, just like I have set up now, but with only one HD. I have had RAID in the past and didn't see much of an improvement and like I said, I want to reduce clutter by only having one HD in each rig.

In response to LionKinG88, yeah I think they will be powerful when it is all said and done, for a good chunk of change, but nothing like if I went for an FX-55, 2 video cards, etc. That is just a bit too much and not worth the extra money in the long run. These rigs will run any well-designed game with all max settings and will scream for more. Even my current rigs still run almost everything at max settings with no real frame rate loss. However, CS:S is a bit sluggish on a few maps, playing with 20 bots and 2 of our PC's with one being the LAN server. Maybe with this upgrade/addition, I can put off next year's upgrade and save some cash for something else for once!

Once again, thanks for all the great replies everyone.

 

[lithium726]

phew, this'll take a little while! im gonna do it a bit at time so i dont loose it all should the forum decide to be stupid when i hit "post reply"

first off, good choice with Nvidia over Via. i hate Via with a passion from teh deepest depths of hell

the board: when the A8N-SLI came out, these boards were littered wtih problems. people complaining that it wouldnt post, was unstable, ect ect - which threw up a red flag to me when you mentioned the board. i too love asus, one of my favs - but sometimes that kinda "beta release" a board to the public and then fix the issues with a new revision. since i havent seen any complaining lately, ill assume these issues are fixed and youll do fine. just for a bit of variety, i love abit boards too, always been great to me... and i know they have a version of their NF4 board with one PCI-E slot, so it might be something to consider.

the CPU: (yes, the 4000+ is just an FX-53 with a diff name and locked multis. AMD and Intel keep their FX and EE series top of the line, so when a new FX/EE is released, the old one gets phased out and turned into a regular a64. the 55 will turn into the 4200+ when the 57 comes out) san diego should be shipping May 6th(from etailers), it was launched on the 18th i believe. it will be same price as the old clawhammer core chips as indicated by preorder prices (ie, etailers arent gouging for once, phew!). with the addition of SSE2/3, DSL(dual stress layering) tech, improved memory controller, 68w TDP (oppsosed to the 89 (i know 89 is newcastle, might be higher for the 4000+ claw) of the 4000+), and power management techniques, this chip is most definatly worth waiting for if you are buying in the near future. if you would prefer to wait till mid june to purchase, the NDA is coming off the new Athlon 64 X2 chips tomarrow, so we'll get to know all about AMD's dual core goodness. AMD has said the chips have already begun shipping to OEMs, and tehy will be avaliable in mass in retail in june. just something to keep a heads up on, as the dual cores will increase the fluid feeling of the system - much like HT does for single core P4's now.

the Video card: yes. the x850XT/PE will edge out the 6800ultra(not teh GT, the GT is the next level down) in raw speed - but in feature set, the 6 series wins hands down. its really a choice - more raw power, or more eye candy. i would personally go with teh 6-series, as i like eye candy, and really, you wont notice the FPS difference between teh XT and U, both will give you an awesome gaming expierience. another interesting tidbit - typically, in benchmarks (i dont have a link to any, as im writing off the top of my head ) the Ultra seems to have higher min FPS ratings while the XT's max FPS is higher... so while the XT can push more, the Ultra maintains a more "smooth" gaming expierence (IMO) in taht it doesnt dip down into the 20's where teh XT does. since you are getting an SLI board, and you might want some more oomph down teh road, SLI could be a solution that you look into later, when the U is cheaper and the next gen cards are out - but thats just a thought, i dont know if that would interest you.

the PSU: it looks alright, i like antec supplies and 26a isnt too bad, but i really think 21-22a is the bare minimum you shoul dbe running an athlon 64 system with, so maybe look into teh neopower - its about 100 bucks, modular (less clutter, and pretty cool) and has dual 12v rails (ie, ATX 2.0 spec, with teh native 24-pin connector. the 430 doesnt feature this, and your board needs it. some people have had lots of trouble with the 20->24 pin connectors, too) with 33a total (one is 18a and one is 15a, just looked at mine). the fortran blue storm PSU is also a very good choice for not much coinage.

the ram: corsair rocks. good choice. i dont have anything else to say here!

the fans: im a quiet freak. those fans (the ZM-F1's) are rated for 21db, and all you can hear is a gentle sound of moving air - its quite nice. of course, if you arent into that, get fans that can push a little more air

as for the push/pull thing, i find it very helpful (to both temps and my hard drive's lifespan) to have a fan pulling air in at the front, one or two in teh back pushing air out, and a fan on teh top exhausting - heat rises, so this is where alot of heat can get trapped. ive got a 92mm on the top of mine, and it pushes quite a bit of heat out. i also have a fan on my sidepanel, but it didnt do jack for temps (pushing or pulling) so it is currently disconnected.

retail vs. OEM: AMD has a list of approved TIM's on their website, but seroiusly, as long as you arent stupid about it, you can use whtaever you want, they have no way of knowing. something else to consider: the AMD retail HSF's are quite good these days, and quiet as all get out. you might just wanna use those, and save yourself a few bucks, espcially since you are going to be running at stock the whole time. the stock HSF's have shin etsu TIM on them already (on par, or a bit better than arctic silver 5) so that is not a problem. AMD and Intel seem to really be taking care of us in this regard these days, the intel stock HSF's are quite beefy too (although i guess they have to be, when the prescotts put out 108w of freaking heat)

the raptors: i agree with you, and honestly, raptors arent good for anything but a few percentage points and an e-penis enlargement. benchmarks have shown that the maxtor maxline III (diamond max 10) drives are nipping at the heels of the raptors, for less money and more space. not worth the coinage.

done

 

[Skrying]

One thing: The 6800Ultra has no eye candy improvments currently over the X850XT PE, and the XT PE is faster. Plus with your regular upgrading there is no reason at all for you to wait close to over a year for any games to take advantage of any chipset advantage the 6800U has over the XT PE. It makes no sense at all when you want the best stock performance within your upgrade schedule.

If you were waiting every 2-3 to upgrade it'd be a different story. But looking at how often you upgrade it makes no sense to get a slower card that wont offer you any visual improvments within the time you'll be using it.

 

[Stugots]

...
AMD Athlon 64 4000+ - OEM (I am partial to AMD)
Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe - Retail (nForce 4 is the way to go I believe)
Corsair XMS Twin1024, 512MBx2, DDR400 PC3200, Non-ECC, Unbuff, 2-3-3-6 T1 - Retail
Antec Plus1080AMG Case w/430W PS - Retail (I already have 3 of these and I love them)
Asus ATI Radeon X850 XT Video Card 256MB GDDR3 - Retail
Maxtor 300GB 7200 RPM SATA 150 HD w/16MB Buffer!, 6B300S0 - OEM
Viewsonic E90FB 19" PerfectFlat CRT Monitor - Retail (Not willing to spend for LCD's)
Zalman CNPS7700-CU CPU Cooler - Retail
Altec Lansing GT5051 5.1 Speaker System - Retail (Not willing to spend for Klipsch, etc.)
Vantec Thermoflow Variable Speed 80mm Case Fans, TF8025 - Retail
Belkin 5-Socket Power Center, F9M520-08-GRY - Retail

Also, I am getting 2 new HD's for my other 2 older systems, to replace smaller EIDE drives, so anyone let me know if you heard anything bad about these:

Hitachi 250GB 7200RPM SATA HD w/8MB Buffer, HDS722525VLSA80 - OEM
...

if your going to get a board with an nforce4 chipset, i think it would be best to stick with a nvidia card. you could either get 1 6800gt/ultra, or 2 6600gt's (SLI).

id try to look for ram with lower latencies, amd systems need low latency ram.

i have a hitachi 160gb and ive never had a problem with them, theyre fast and quiet. the only weird thing about them is that they have some sort of calibration feature that makes a meowing sound about every 10-15 minutes. it can be turned off but most people dont bother with it.

 

[lithium726]

want to prove to me that the XT can do everything a 6 series card can do? i can pull shit off on my GT that the XT is not capable of. i know this for a fact.

do this(assuming you have an ati card): go into far cry. open the CP. type in "r_sm30path 1" and "r_hdrrendering 7". see a difference? i sure do.

i am in no way saying the X series is bad - i just prefer the 6 series, and i am free to voice my opinions, just as you are. i think the 6-series provides smoother gameplay, and the extra features are pretty cool. if he decides to get an X series card, thats fine - its up to him.

 

[Skrying]

And of course you do know that HDR is possible on a X800 card? Just look at rthwhatever. It's HDR too.

The HDR in Farcry hs NOTHING do to with SM3.0. HDR is possible on an X800 card, and is even going to be used in the Unreal 3 engine.

Also, do you enjoy the performance hit and not being able to use AA?

I'm simply saying, for him the X850XT PE would serve him much better, better performance and the features he'll use now, not two years from now.

 

[lithium726]

as a matter of fact, i do. the effect is just that cool to me.

that flavor HDR is not possible on the x800. regular HDR is - not OpenEXR. and yes, it does have something to do with SM3.0, as 32-bit precision shaders of a requirement of SM3.0.

i just dont agree that it would be better. like i said, the xt has a lower min FPS, which is much, much more important to me than a max FPS. im not going to get into a pissing match with you and jack this guys thread though. i think teh 6 series is better, and you like teh X series. who the fuck cares? he can make an educated decision on hwat we both have said, so im ending it, right now.

 

[Ditch]

Ok, I am back with some updates. I have been doing a lot more research on all of the suggestions you guys gave. Following lithium726's big reply:

mobo - I am going to stick with the A8N-SLI Deluxe. Good advice from lithium 726 on using Abit as an alternative though. I used to get Abit all the time until Asus nudged them into 2nd in my book. Also, I read many bad things about their lame Fatal1ty AN8 board which is a turn off. I mean come on, a signature board from that smack? I guess it was inevitable though.

CPU - I may wait just a week to see if I can start pricing a San Diego before they come out. As of right now though, I can't find anything preorder prices anywhere and I would think newegg would have it. I am curious to see if the price really will be comparable like you say. I noticed the 4000+ that I first mentioned has the Clawhammer/Hammer core. There is another one with the Sledgehammer core. What is the big difference here? They are both .13 micron and have 1MB L2 cache. The one with the sledgehammer core is $100 less though.

Video Card - I will stick with the X850XT. The big thing for me is ease of maintenance. I already have 2 ATI Radeon cards (9800XT's), so by getting the X850XT's I will only ever need to download the Catalyst drivers and never have to mess with two sets of drivers. I had originally spec'd out the Asus X850XT because, like their mobos, thier video cards have done me well in the past also. However, I could save about $100 by getting the comparable Sapphire or Powercolor ones, listed here:

Sapphire X850XT

Powercolor X850XT

Here is the Asus one:

Asus X850XT

The only difference I noticed is in the memory clock which is 1080MHz for both the Sapphire and Powercolor and 520MHz for the Asus (same as the core on all 3). What is the deal with that? Opinions? It seems like I could save $200 buying my 2 cards for the 2 rigs and not lose much, if anything at all, that would be noticeable. I also remember reading a bunch of people raving about the Sapphire cards and the Powercolor card seems to have some good reviews as well.

Many people have questioned me as to why buy an SLI system if you aren't going to use 2 cards? I am vying for this system, mainly because many of the reviews I have read about SLI and PCI-E have stated that there is a noticeable difference between AGP systems and PCI-E systems, even if only one card is used. Also, as of right now, with nothing taking advantage of it, SLI doesn't gain you much apparently, over a good system with one PCI-E card.

PSU - lithium726, you convinced me. I will go neopower baby! The advanced cabling system alone looks like it rocks. Based on that, I am switching to a PLUSVIEW1000AMG for the extra case I need (since I can get it with no PS installed). It is basically the same as the 1080AMG I have, but with a side view.

RAM - Yep, Corsair rocks. In response to acascianelli, the Corsair RAM I picked out is 2-3-3-6. That is pretty low. I doubt I could find RAM as reliable as Corsair with lower latencies and dual channel.

Fans - lithium726, you convince me on this too. I am going with the ZM-F1's, because they are quiet like you said, but if my system were running warm, I could switch them to the non-quiet mode for a major push of air. These fans can do both and it is not based on a temperature control feature which I read causes problems with some PSU dedicated fan only connectors. I don't think its a problem with the neopower anyway.

How did you put a 92mm on top of your case? Did you cut a hole yourself? That sounds like a good idea. I too believe the side panel fans don't really do anything, except maybe a little better pushing out than pulling in. I am not going to buy a side panel fan for the new case and see how it does compared to the 1080AMG with the side fan.

Retail vs. OEM - Right now, I can only find the 4000+ I want in OEM anyway. I see what you are saying though, but I have never had a problem for years and years getting OEM procs. Knock on wood (knocks on head).

Monitor - I switched to the slightly better Viewsonic G90FB.

So, here is what I have currently:

Antec Performance Plus PLUSVIEW1000AMG Case
Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe mobo - 2
Asus/Sapphire/Powercolor?? Radeon X850XT 256MB GDDR3 PCI-E x16 Video Card - 2
Antec Neopower ATX 480W PS - 2
AMD Athlon 64 4000+ Clawhammer/Hammer 1 GHz FSB Socket 939 Proc - 2
Corsair XMS 1GB (2x512MB) 184-pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) RAM - 2
- Model TWINX1024-3200C2
Maxtor Diamondmax 10 6B300So 300GB 7200rpm SATA150 HD - 2
Hitachi Deskstar 7K250 250GB 7200rpm SATA150 HD - 2
Viewsonic G90FB Black 19" CRT Monitor - 1
Zalman CNPS7700-Cu 120mm 2 Ball CPU Fan/HS
Zalman ZM-F1 80mm Case Fan - 4
Altec Lansing GT5051 80W RMS 5.1 Speaker System - 2

Also, I am adding a Saitek Gamers Keyboard which got some good reviews. It has a programmable pad for numerous keystrokes under 9 buttons (27 altogether I think) and is supposed to be virtually silent when keys are pressed. It has a cool backlight if you are into that sort of thing as well.

Thanks again, especially since I made some adjustments that I think will work out for the best. Let me know about the other questions I had above if anyone gets a chance.

 

[lithium726]

sounds good, ditch - can you link me to teh sledgehammer being 100 less? sledgehammer is technically an Opteron core, ie, a clawhammer with the extra pin (940 vs. 939) in order to run registered memory. otehrwise, they are identical... but id like to see this chip you are talking about. also, newegg doesnt do preorders, they only list what they have in stock or what they will have very, very soon. monarch computers, unlike newegg, is an AMD launch partner, and show the new 4000+ with a ship date of may 2nd.

the video cards: the memory speed on one is probably teh DDR rate while the other is the SDR rating (DDR= SDRx2). DDR can push double the amounts of bits per cycle comparted to SDR, which is why it is rated for double the clockspeed, although it doesnt run at it. that would put teh sapphire at 1080 while the asus 1040, which i cant explain... it might be a typo, it might not - but you might be better off getting another brand... read up on the warrenties for all the cards, especailly since you arent overclocking. something with a lifetime no questions asked warrenty is always good (BFG does this, but they only do Nvidia cards) and was one of the key things that made me get my BFG card. asus's video cards are overpriced IMO, so just get the powercolor. ive used a few, and they are solid. also, sapphire builds the ATI BBA cards, so id caution to say they are a safe bet.

there is no performance difference between AGP8x and PCIe x16. i dont know where you read that, but they are wrong. current games arent even saturating teh AGP 4x bus yet, and they are no where near 8x or the insanely high bandwidth of PCIe x16. there are, of course, other benifits to PCIe, but they do not benifit graphics cards (yet)

my case came with a hole on the top, but case modding is fun! all you need is a dremel(an awesome little rotary tool, very handy), a few other tools and some patience. head over to teh case modding section here for more info on that, im defiantly no expert.

 

[Ditch]

lithium726:

Here is the Sledgehammer I was talking about. It is a 939 though (so it says).

Sledgehammer 4000+ CPU

Here is the one I planned on getting, about $100 more than the sledgehammer above.

Clawhammer/Hammer 4000+ CPU

The Sledgehammer is retail and the Clawhammer is OEM. Isn't it strange that this Sledgehammer is a 939 when all others are 940? Newegg also lists an FX-53 Sledgehammer that is 939 though.

I agree that the Asus cards seem overpriced. I am going to do a little research though on the Sapphire and Powercolor. I would like to see how the cards stand up to the Asus and others along with how much heat they generate in comparison, fan they have, etc.

Case - I may get a dremel then and try it out.

 

[lithium726]

hmm, thats odd... i dont think there are any differneces in sledge/claw other htan one is technically for opterons and one is for 939 chips... if hte sledge is 100 less and in a retail box, i would just for that one..

 

[Ditch]

Do you know of anything that describes the different AMD cores in good detail? I can't even find anything on AMD's site.

 

[lithium726]

Do you know of anything that describes the different AMD cores in good detail? I can't even find anything on AMD's site.

sure, me

Sledgehammer/Clawhammer: the original athlon 64/opteron core. .13u, SSE support. had 1MB of L2 cache, denoted by AP (C0), AR (CG) or AS (CG/s939) in the string. there are some 512kb cache chips that are Hammer cored, they just have half disabled. chips that use this core are: s754: 2800, 3000, 3200, 3400 (all 512kb and 1MB versions, minus the 2800 i think), 3700 (1MB). s939: 3500 (512kb), 4000, FX51/53/55 (1MB). all Opterons until the 252 were sledehammers, as was the FX51/53 on the 940 platform.

Newcastle: a Hammer with only 512kb on die. instead simply disabling the extra cache, it is no longer present on the core. denoted by AX(s754) or AW(s939). chips that use this core are: s754: 2800, 3000, 3200, 3400. s939: 3000, 3200, 3500, 3800.

Winchester: a newcastle with a die shrink. 130nm -> 90nm. has been known to have some memory controller issues, and recent samples arent OCing well at all. features SSE2 and lower power consumption(89w->67w). denoted by BI. chips that used this core are: s939: 3000, 3200, 3500.

San Diego: a Hammer with a die shrink (130->90nm)and other features. it has an improved memory controller (what winchester suffered from), SSE2/3, DSL, sSOI (or so we think) and a more advanced power management tech. has the same low power consumption as winchester (67w), has 1MB, and is denoted with BN. will be featured in the following chips: s939: 3500 (half cache, 512kb), 3700, 4000, FX55/57, 4400, 4800.

Troy: 90nm opteron core, same as the san diego. only on the opty 252 right now.

Venice: same thing as San Diego, only it has 512kb onboard, instead of 1MB. it also does not have the power mangement that SD has. denoted with BP. will be featured in the following chips: s939: 3000, 3200, 3500, 3800, 4200, 4600.

Toledo: Dual Core chip, basically two Venice chips connected by a crossbar. will be featured in teh following chips: 4200+, 4600+

Machester: Dual Core chip, basically two San Diego chips connected by a crossbar. will be featured in the following chips: 4400+, 4800+

 

[Ditch]

Yep. Here they are at Monarch. Good prices too man.

San Diego OEM

San Diego Retail

They both have the BN code. OEM ships 29 Apr and the retail one ships 02 May. Sweet. I may just have to order from them since newegg isn't showing it yet. That core should kick butt. Lower power requirements should mean less heat which I like. Looks like a week's wait time now is a good move for that price. That is still almost $100 less than the original 4000+ I picked out from newegg. Like you said, they are not shafting us for once. What a bargain for a new chip like that.

By the way, thanks for that great info on the cores. How do you know so much about the cores? I still can't find anything that expains it the way you did.

 

[Ditch]

Also, after reading and responding to a thread re: the raptor, I am changing my HD for my 2 main systems to this:

Maxtor Maxline III

For $9 more per drive, I get a top-rated drive with 300GB, the 16MB cache I want and SATA150 with all its perks.

Pretty good change from this one:

Maxtor Diamondmax 10

and the Maxline has a 5-yr warranty! Sweet!

 

[lithium726]

maxline III and DM10 drives are the exact same, only the maxlines have an enterprise warranty of 5 years and some other perk i dont remember. for 9 dollars, the warrenty alone is with it

yes, the new core 4000+'s will put out less heat, that is one major thing about the die shrink to 90nm that so many of us like, less heat =more ocing headroom but also means that you have a cooler running chip at stock, which is always good.

and how do i know so much? well i just hang out here too much that entire post came from memory pretty much, with the exception of looking up the code for newcastles, i had forgotten that, lol