How important is contrast ratio?

[jml90]

Will I notice a difference on a 19" lcd between a 700:1 and 500: contrast ratio?

 

[Greenwit]

My guess is that it will not be big enough to notice and that the brighter monitors will have the better ratio. CRT contrast ratios are measured in the thousands and is an indication of black level performance. All LCDs I have ever noted don't break the 1K mark. Bottom line is that LCDs don't show black (at best a charcoal gray). I had a 2001fp (contrast ratio of 400:1) and Doom3 looked pretty nasty. Kind of a milky pasty grayish white. Does the 700:1 monitor happen to be a Viewsonic?

 

[The Diplomat]

jml90,

I am far from an expert but I did do quite a bit of research before buying my new LCD. From the several reviews I read that did actual testing of the monitors I found that manufacturerer claims of contrast ratios are very suspect. Many of the specs that are a bit difficult to measure exactly are greatly exaggerated in an attempt to get the buyer to purchase brand "X." This would include contrast ratio, refresh rate, viewing angle, and even brightness level.

I finally got to the point where I narrowed my search based on user reviews and features and then went to a local store to purchase my monitor. I highly suggest buying a monitor locally if at all possible. So many things about them are subjective: Do you like the styling? Is it too bright for you? Do the colors look washed out? Is there glare from the screen? Is it fast enough? How crisp is the text? And on and on and on.

The advantage of buying from a local store with a good return policy can be huge. Just make sure they have no restocking fee. You can test the monitor out yourself at home. Then if it has backlight bleeding, stuck pixels, contrast or black levels that you can not live with or does not meet your needs for any other reason you can return without worrying about getting a RMA, shipping it back across the country, and the wait for the untested replacement to arrive.

Here is a link to an article that goes into great detail on contrast ratio and other monitor parameters:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/lcd-guide.html

 

[Greenwit]

A good article......and a good explanation of why LCDs cannot display black. Also appears that if your monitor has blacklight bleeding (and don't most of them to some extent?), then you can toss those contrast ratio numbers out the door. I agree that seeing these things with your owns eyes at the B&Ms is the best, if not most costly, way to pick out a monitor.

 

[Roger]

While it's true that LCDs can't display perfect black, CRTs aren't perfect either and in mosts cases the blacks on an LCD will appear actually darker than on the CRT. For example, take a look at a TV or a monitor when it's turned off. That's the darkest black it can display. In a brightly lit room it doesn't really look BLACK, does it? The brighter the lights the less black it will look. With LCDs it's the other way around. While turned off, they are much darker than the CRT. Their problem is that some light still passes through the crystals even when the monitor is supposed to show completely black screen. However, in bright conditions that backlight leakage is not very visible. Coupled with the fact that LCD screens absorb the light while CRTs partly reflect it, the LCD will show blacker blacks in a bright room while CRTs will show much darker blacks in darkness.

Here is an example: http://www.behardware.com/medias/photos_news/00/08/IMG0008931.jpg

Although the colorimeter will show that CRT has the level of black of 0.07cd/m2 and therefore a higher contrast ratio than any LCD, visually, blacks look darker and whites look brighter on the LCD, don't they?

As for the actual question, yes, you would notice a difference between a 500:1 and 700:1 LCD if those values were real. However, CR strongly depends on brightness and manufacturers really like to exaggerate theCR specs on their TN panels.

 

[TehQuick]

Deja vu.... http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=891855

Roger, ur suggestion for a test ain't a valid one, IMHO. CRT's don't reflect light, they react to it - photons or electrons or whatever from the light excite the phosphorus in the screen surface. Turn off the lights in the middle of the night and u'll see a CRTs screen still glowing


Diplomat, buying LCD locally maybe a good idea but u'll be paying thru the nose for the convenience Online, some merchants offer dirt-cheap LCDs with generous return policies (Dell anybody? )

 

[Roger]

Roger, ur suggestion for a test ain't a valid one, IMHO. CRT's don't reflect light, they react to it - photons or electrons or whatever from the light excite the phosphorus in the screen surface. Turn off the lights in the middle of the night and u'll see a CRTs screen still glowing

I don't know how much they are being excited by ambient light but phosphors are good reflectors of light too. Either way, the level of black strongly depends on lighting conditions on both CRTs and LCDs.

 

[The Diplomat]

Tehquick,

Diplomat, buying LCD locally maybe a good idea but u'll be paying thru the nose for the convenience Online, some merchants offer dirt-cheap LCDs with generous return policies (Dell anybody? )

In most cases I would agree with you regarding pricing. But not always. Shop around and wait for rebates and sales.

Samsung 930B available locally at Staples - $470 - $70 Staples EZ Rebate - $70 Samsung manufacturer rebate = $330 final cost. Beat that price for me online and I'll buy you lunch.

There are more considerations than just the bottom line.You also avoid the online vendor's return policy and the need to ship back to them if defective; (or worse yet they refuse all returns and you have to ship directly to the manufacturer for service). At the local store when within the return window you return for a full refund. Even if everything is working perfectly and you just decide you want something else. That is worth $ to me as well.

 

[Greenwit]

While it's true that LCDs can't display perfect black, CRTs aren't perfect either and in mosts cases the blacks on an LCD will appear actually darker than on the CRT.
Here is an example: http://www.behardware.com/medias/photos_news/00/08/IMG0008931.jpg

Although the colorimeter will show that CRT has the level of black of 0.07cd/m2 and therefore a higher contrast ratio than any LCD, visually, blacks look darker and whites look brighter on the LCD, don't they?

.

LOL......now I've seen LCD fan-dom go off the deep end. You are wrong. Not only is it a industry recognized fact that LCDs cannot produce real black, but anyone with honest eyes can verify this. Just last month I had both the 2001fp and NEC 21111sb in my house trying to determine which one I wanted to keep. One of the first things you notice when you pull up a high res photo is the lack of shadow detail in the LCDs. In Doom3 there was no way I could get the everpresent black background to look anything but gray in the Dell. On the NEC, Doom3 looks the way it supposed to look.....dark and dingy not some milky gray mess. Go to the AVS forum where blacks in LCDs have been discussed to h*ll and back and it is not even something that is a debateable point. LCDs don't produce anywhere near the black detail or depth of black that CRTs do. Period.

 

[The Diplomat]

Greenwit,

Take your medication my friend. I'm worried about you.

 

[TehQuick]

Tehquick,



In most cases I would agree with you regarding pricing. But not always. Shop around and wait for rebates and sales.

Samsung 930B available locally at Staples - $470 - $70 Staples EZ Rebate - $70 Samsung manufacturer rebate = $330 final cost. Beat that price for me online and I'll buy you lunch.

There are more considerations than just the bottom line.You also avoid the online vendor's return policy and the need to ship back to them if defective; (or worse yet they refuse all returns and you have to ship directly to the manufacturer for service). At the local store when within the return window you return for a full refund. Even if everything is working perfectly and you just decide you want something else. That is worth $ to me as well.

Well, if there's somethign I agree with u, it's that it's not about bottom-line

Not too many ppl would be excited about rebates... Also, online u frequently don't pay tax which may be pretty big consideration depending on where u live. Lastly, how many ppl go to Staples when shopping for computer monitors? Unless it's for office use only (which is NOT the MAIN focus on this forum), not many will.

As for return policies, I dunno, locally, it's also toss of a coin, more and more vendors introduce shorter return periods as well as restocking fees of some sort. Besides, with onlinde vendors u frequently don't pay shipping, which means u dont have to spend money on ever-expensive gas when going around, combing through local stores for the model u want.

Lastly, most B&M stores do not carry too many brands and/or models, and of those they do, they won't have too many in stock on any given day - especially when those items are on sale. They can't afford to warehouse a wide selection, and if u want something they don't have, they offer goin online anyways

For example, how easy would be to find the monitor u mentioned in a store? Prolly they sell out fast so u either have to know when they go on sale and go there early, or drive around the town for hours trying to hunt one down. Yes, u can call in, but that doesn't guarantee anything, unless u pre-pay (just like u do online) If anything, shopping online eliminates that hassle. I'd buy u lunch just to avoid driving around trying to find that monitor

Shopping in ur neighborhood store becoming less and less different from doing stuff online, and in many respects, less convenient.

 

[Roger]

LOL......now I've seen LCD fan-dom go off the deep end. You are wrong. Not only is it a industry recognized fact that LCDs cannot produce real black, but anyone with honest eyes can verify this. Just last month I had both the 2001fp and NEC 21111sb in my house trying to determine which one I wanted to keep. One of the first things you notice when you pull up a high res photo is the lack of shadow detail in the LCDs. In Doom3 there was no way I could get the everpresent black background to look anything but gray in the Dell. On the NEC, Doom3 looks the way it supposed to look.....dark and dingy not some milky gray mess. Go to the AVS forum where blacks in LCDs have been discussed to h*ll and back and it is not even something that is a debateable point. LCDs don't produce anywhere near the black detail or depth of black that CRTs do. Period.

First of all, I wouldn't call myself a LCD fan by any means. Second, IPS panels are known for the worst contrast ratio and therefore the worst reproduction of blacks of all LCD technologies. The black level on the 2001FP is barely under 1cd/m2 which is too bright to look anything like true black. I was not saying that LCDs have better blacks than CRTs do but blacks on LCDs with good contrast ratio WILL look darker next to a CRT in a brightly lit room. I have a CRT and LCD running in dual setup and during the day the blacks on the LCD look darker than on the CRT. In darkness it's the other way around. That's the whole point I was trying to make. If you are planning to use an LCD in a low lightning conditions of course you're never going to get a true black color.

 

[Greenwit]

Greenwit,

Take your medication my friend. I'm worried about you.

/pops medication.......

......ahhh, Ok....I'm OK.....You're OK

Haha. I just need to stop reading some of these posts 'cause some will never be convinced. I've followed the technology for years, especially in high-def TVs where newbs with LCDs think they have great blacks.....till they pop in Hellboy or Underworld and watch their wonderful LCD next to a CRT. With computer monitors, just dial in Doom3 and whether the room is pitch black or brightly lit you cannot get anything but gray.....unless you're playing on a CRT. I get excellent blacks on my NEC....all you have to do is calibrate it properly with the patterns that they provide. And just like with HDTVs, too many people like their monitors in torch mode which will not give you the best imaging.

 

[Roger]

With computer monitors, just dial in Doom3 and whether the room is pitch black or brightly lit you cannot get anything but gray.....unless you're playing on a CRT.

What LCDs have you had apart from the 2001FP?

 

[jml90]

The 700:1 is a Hyundai and the 500:1 is an ACer Btw your are confusing the hell out of me

 

[TehQuick]

The 700:1 is a Hyundai and the 500:1 is an ACer Btw your are confusing the hell out of me

It's called thread hijack

As for ur question, the higher ratio, the better but ultimately, u got to make ur own choice and NOT be dissapointed with it