How do I test a WC loop (and what am I testing)?

M

Matrices

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 5, 2003
Messages
5,254
My full complement of WC parts finally came in, and I want to run the loop (2 GPU blocks) outside the system before I put everything in the case. Being a newbie at this, I'm looking for some advice.

I imagine that I cut the tube lengths to be appropriate for my case and hook everything up (pump, res, rad, blocks) to a PSU using the paperclip trick and distilled water.

But what exactly am I testing, in terms of leaks? Whether the blocks themselves leak? I mean, I'll obviously need to take the tubing apart and put it back together again when I place everything inside the case anyway, so it seems like I can't really test for leaks. (I'm using 1/2 ID tubing with brass clamps).
 
I don't know about the blocks, but you will definitely want to flush out the radiator before assembly st least once to clean it out. A lot of small metal chips left over from manufacturing can get stuck in there.

For leaks I connected everything inside my computer and did what you described, jumping the psu. I jammed some tissue at all fittings/connections and ran it for a few hours to check for wetness. Main leakers are insecure connections.
 
Basically throw everything in your system and build your loop to completion. Take out any hardware that you can and jump your power supply and good rule of thumb is to let the leak test run for 24 hours. No leaks put everything back in and enjoy, if there is a leak.. well fix it!
 
You leak test everything. From the blocks to the fittings to the reservoir to the pump... EVERYTHING.

Definitely flush out your radiator.

Your hardware will be fine if there's any leaks as long as there is no power running through them, and you can always wipe off the water later. Even if they're getting power, if you're using distilled water, you should be safe for the most part.
 
Thanks guys. I'll flush out the rad, install everything, jump my spare PSU, and observe. With some paper towels on hand. :)
 
Tsumi said:
Your hardware will be fine if there's any leaks as long as there is no power running through them, and you can always wipe off the water later. Even if they're getting power, if you're using distilled water, you should be safe for the most part.
Click to expand...

You forget about dust - while water maybe distilled (which is in itself questionable, something invariably gets in while you are filling the loop), the components are covered in tiny specs of dust which will make any liquid conductive when they get mixed. Of course, it doesn't mean anything gets fried but why risk it ;)

OP, run the loop for at least 24 hours uninterrupte. Sometimes leaks develop over time (fitting or connection getting loose) so 24 hours is the minimum recommended by all
 
Hm, now I'm confused.

I'm supposed to put everything together in the system and then run it for 24 hours? I can't monitor it that long and if it is leaking, it will spill all over the GPUs.

It sounds like what I really need to do is leave the GPU waterblocks unconnected to the GPUs to do this testing. The problem of course is that I'll need to drain the loop and disconnect the tubing to put the GPU waterblocks on the video cards once the testing is done, which defeats the purpose of testing, at least for the GPU-->hose part...
 
I would leave the blocks on the cards and just put some rags to catch any leaks.
 
Matrices said:
Hm, now I'm confused.

I'm supposed to put everything together in the system and then run it for 24 hours? I can't monitor it that long and if it is leaking, it will spill all over the GPUs.

It sounds like what I really need to do is leave the GPU waterblocks unconnected to the GPUs to do this testing. The problem of course is that I'll need to drain the loop and disconnect the tubing to put the GPU waterblocks on the video cards once the testing is done, which defeats the purpose of testing, at least for the GPU-->hose part...
Click to expand...


Put everything together. Plug only your pump into the PSU, fans are also ok, if you want to get an idea how loud your system or rad will be. DO NOT plug anything else in, to include your motherboard etc. Just jump the PSU. Only your pump (and fans) should kick on.

You can put a couple of paper towels on top of your GPU's or tucked under your blocks to catch any drips.

Monitor your blocks and fitting very closely for the 30 minutes or so, any major leaks will be pretty immediate. Then just check the blocks and fittings every so often until you feel you are leak free, 24 hours used to be the minimum.

Pay special attention to paper towels showing any signs of moisture, if there is a very minor leak you make not see a drip.

If you do get a real leak, do not panic. As long as none of your components are being powered they should be fine. Turn off your pump, wipe up any drops that may have hit your GPU, mobo, etc. place whatever part in a dry area for at least 24 hours before trying to reinstall.

Over the last 7 years or so I have had more then one leak, and have yet (knock on pressboard) had a component get fried. Just take you time and double check before flipping that on switch the first time.
 
Thanks for the advice.

What is the most likely culprit or cause of leaks, anyway? I mean, I'm using 1/2 ID hosing on 1/2 barbs and brass clamps. You'd think that'd lock things down pretty tight.
 
Matrices said:
Thanks for the advice.

What is the most likely culprit or cause of leaks, anyway? I mean, I'm using 1/2 ID hosing on 1/2 barbs and brass clamps. You'd think that'd lock things down pretty tight.
Click to expand...

The culprit could be anything. I had 0 leaks during testing (6 hours), so far water level has not dropped (marked that with tape after the leak test, swiftech micro res externally mounted) so I can't tell you what's going to leak from experience.

But, my waterblocks came with a warning in the paperwork in big bold letters (thanks Swiftech):

ALWAYS TEST YOUR BLOCK FOR LEAKS PRIOR TO POWERING UP YOUR SYSTEM!

So, I took their word for it.
 
i have a different test method that i like to use. there is no 24 hour wait, its never failed me before.

now, due to thermal expansion and such, when the whole system heats up, things do expand some. this is actually an argument against the 24 hour unpowered leak test, because that wouldnt heat up the water, and you wouldnt have the pressure in the loop that you would if everything was running. so even if you pass the initial leak test, when you first start the computer, a leak could now make itself known.

however there will never be more then a few single PSI of pressure in the system at any time. so what i do is assemble and fill everything, power up the pump for 20-40 minutes and get all the air out of the system. turn off everything. make sure you have a small amount of space in the reservoir, and then pressurize the loop to 5-7 PSI (how you want to do that is up to you, i use an air compressor. obviously dont go much higher or risk blowing out seals). if there are any leaks, they will be extremely apparent immediately. as long as the system is totally unpowered, you can just dry off any boards that get wet and they will work like it never happened. if you dont notice anything, leave it for an hour or so and come back. if everything is still dry and the pressure hasnt leaked out, you are golden.

you could even pressurize it while empty if you are scared of water leaking out, and just listen for air escaping. or if you have a pressure gauge, watch to see that it holds pressure for a good amount of time. just make sure not to over pressurize it for obvious reasons.

as long as you use good quality, flexable, thick walled tubing (Tygon or similar) you wont have any problems with leaks. home depot tubing = lots of leaks in my experience.
 
The 24 hour test is generally done with the pump is running.

You can get a leak anywhere there is a connection or oring, whether it is a fitting on a block, the top and bottoms of the blocks, the tubing connection on a fitting etc. You can also get leaks in your rad. Sure they pressure test them at the factory, but that doesn't mean your rad wasn't dropped and a weld failed or you dinged it when screwing it into your case.

That is why you leak test.

Incidently you can leak test for a month and develop a leak ant any connection, anything man made can fail.
 
The first time I setup my water cooling was in my machine. I never ran it outside of the case or took out any parts. :confused: It was pretty scary, but exciting at the same time.

You need to wash out all of your components. Use distilled water for everything. Clean out the radiators with boiling distilled water, clean out the blocks with a toothbrush and ketchup. I didn't take the blocks apart, just kinda squirting some ketchup in it, and flushed it out with distilled water.

Anyways, if you want to run outside of your computer first. Attach/put everything into your computer first, cut the tube to the length you need/attach them. Then take it out and run it that way. You don't have to jump a power supply or anything. The 3 pin power connector is usually long enough for the pump to sit outside of the case, or you can just use an older computer.

There is a small problem with my pump. The bottom barb connector leaks if it's not screwed in just right and not too tight. I believe it's from accidently screwing the barb in wrong, creating my own threads. So I guess be careful when you are putting the barbs in.

You will need to bleed the system BEFORE you leave it on for a long periods of time. I'm not sure why the guy below said to run it for 20-40mins. That will kill your pump sooner than later because the pump is meant to run without something to push (coolant). Just turn the computer on for a few seconds, and then turn it off. Fill up your res or "T" as need be. Stop when you the res or "T" doesn't need to be filled. You'll probably have to fill it for the next couple weeks or month.

Also I am using Home Depot tubing without any problems. There's two different types of tubing there. One for ponds and the other for different water systems. The pond tubing is black, 1/2 ID, flexible, and would work good. It's like $7-8 for 20 feet. Unfortunately I found the Pond tubing after I used the other tubing. :(

Some people have had luck with zip ties. I tried using them at first, but they just slid off. I use hose clamps which work well, just don't tighten them too much otherwise they will break the tubing. You can find those at Home Depot, Microcenter, or usually at a car parts store.

I never ran my system for 24 hours at once. More like about 30mins because I was worried about it leaking. Once I got the hose clamps I was a little more confident and I never had any leaks. Just keep the side panel off, use it as you normally would, and check for leaks everyonce and awhile. I have a folded up paper towel on the bottom by that dang barb just in case. Nothing has ever happened though. So you could just keep some around key points. I wouldn't recommend putting papers towels on your video cards when you have your computer on though.

So good luck.

KI
 
What is the best way to bleed? I have a micro-res that will be at the top of my loop. I was thinking of attaching a drain port to the bottom (a small bit of hose with a stop plug) to facilitate with draining the system when needed. And I would be leaving the top hole uncovered. That way the air will enter the res, rise, and escape over a few days?
 
Best way to bleed is once you get filled (I just use a reservior that is 80mm) is to turn your case different directions and work out any air pockets out. Slowly working them to the reservior to allow the air to escape. Small bubbles will linger on the tubes around for maybe 15 mins to 2 hours and eventually go away. I used vinegar to clean my system and then flushed with distelled water. Different methods work for different setups but I have Koolance quick disconnects so I just bring my case to the sink and fill up some bowls and drain to the sink.
 
Well I spent two nights on the WC prep and setup, muddling my way through and wracking my brain at various points, nonetheless slogging through it all until finally being defeated by inadequate length and thickness of tubing. The MCP655 inlet/outlet decision is completely dumb and I'm left with bends that will require 3/4 OD tubing, not 11/16 and certainly not 5/8, which is completely useless tubing for 1/2 ID.

I don't want to sit on my ass for a week and waste money on shipping a few bucks worth of tubing from a boutique store. Does Home Depot have this kind of stuff available?
 
Matrices said:
Well I spent two nights on the WC prep and setup, muddling my way through and wracking my brain at various points, nonetheless slogging through it all until finally being defeated by inadequate length and thickness of tubing. The MCP655 inlet/outlet decision is completely dumb and I'm left with bends that will require 3/4 OD tubing, not 11/16 and certainly not 5/8, which is completely useless tubing for 1/2 ID.

I don't want to sit on my ass for a week and waste money on shipping a few bucks worth of tubing from a boutique store. Does Home Depot have this kind of stuff available?
Click to expand...

Yes get the black tubing for PONDS. It's in the Garden section, outside in my store. Don't go down aisle 7 or whatever it may be for the tubing for washing machines and other appliances. It kinks too easily.
 
Last edited:
Home Depot probably does. It's also probably going to be overpriced like hell, and lower quality than what you can find online.
 
Lol, I just noticed that Matrices has finally converted to watercooling. Welcome to the club :D
 
Tsumi said:
Home Depot probably does. It's also probably going to be overpriced like hell, and lower quality than what you can find online.
Click to expand...

No it's actually priced at 8 dollars for 20 feet. That's better than anywhere on the internet.
 
TehQuick said:
Lol, I just noticed that Matrices has finally converted to watercooling. Welcome to the club :D
Click to expand...

It was either that or return the 470s for 5850s.

Since I wanted to tinker and had money to burn, I figured why the hell not. :p

Alright, I'll head out to Home Depot today and see if I can find anything useful.

The tubing has been the most vexing thing, really. Putting on the blocks was not bad, putting on the rad externally through the radbox was a headache since the instructions are wordless and not step-by-step, but I picked up my own screws and got through it.

So the rule with tubing is thicker tubing kinks less, and the thinner the tubing, the longer the arc you have to run it to avoid bending?

Also, it seems like sometimes a tube kinks out of nowhere and will never unkink. I have a piece of Tygon 11/16 OD in a position that seemed fine, next time I looked at it it was kinked, and now it just stays like that.
 
Picked up some 1/2 ID 3/4 OD clear vinly braided tubing from Lowe's; looks pretty solid. Pretty hard to kink. They had some sketchy looking rubbery hose tubing in the pond section that was 1/2 ID but didn't specify OD. They had tons of PVC tubing in the regular tubing section, which is where I got mine. Was like $18 for 15 feet.
 
Matrices said:
Picked up some 1/2 ID 3/4 OD clear vinly braided tubing from Lowe's; looks pretty solid. Pretty hard to kink. They had some sketchy looking rubbery hose tubing in the pond section that was 1/2 ID but didn't specify OD. They had tons of PVC tubing in the regular tubing section, which is where I got mine. Was like $18 for 15 feet.
Click to expand...

Honestly that was probably a mistake.

Good luck though.
 
Matrices said:
Picked up some 1/2 ID 3/4 OD clear vinly braided tubing from Lowe's; looks pretty solid. Pretty hard to kink. They had some sketchy looking rubbery hose tubing in the pond section that was 1/2 ID but didn't specify OD. They had tons of PVC tubing in the regular tubing section, which is where I got mine. Was like $18 for 15 feet.
Click to expand...

:(

The tubing for the Pond wouldn't worked just fine man. It's pretty bendable/flexible. Far cheaper too.

GL.
 
Matrices said:
It was either that or return the 470s for 5850s.

Since I wanted to tinker and had money to burn, I figured why the hell not. :p
Click to expand...

Well, at least now you have no grounds to argue that watercooling is useless because aircooling has caught up with it :cool: :D

Matrices said:
The tubing has been the most vexing thing, really. Putting on the blocks was not bad, putting on the rad externally through the radbox was a headache since the instructions are wordless and not step-by-step, but I picked up my own screws and got through it.

So the rule with tubing is thicker tubing kinks less, and the thinner the tubing, the longer the arc you have to run it to avoid bending?
Click to expand...

Well, watercooling is hands-on like that, that's why there are so many forums dedicated to this stuff and in most cases, you can find threads discussing the same issues you are having with step-by-step pictures explaining the process ;) OK, maybe not for the Radbox but for complicated WB mounting like on GPUs (GPUs are quite fragile, and overtightening might damage it).

With tubing, a lot depends on the material and then the wall thickness. I think you've picked up pretty stiff tubing and gonna have trouble routing it. If that be the case, I suggest you try softening it up in hot, almost boiling water, and then bend it into the shape you need. Same trick works for putting tubing over the fittings with OD larger than your tubing ID (once, I managed to put some tubing over a T which had larger ID than my tubing's OD lol)
 
Thanks for the tips. The softening tip might be helpful, particularly with the MCP655 pump, which has 1/2" barbs but is still a bitch to fit 1/2 ID hosing over.

As for the GPU blocks, I'm using MCW80s with the G80 kit, and saw a thread with pics showing how another guy attached his MCW60 using the included screws and thumbscrews. He didn't seem to be using washers on the GPU side of the screw, but that's probably because the thumbscrew clamps down on a part of the stock baseplate that seems to be plastic.

http://img19.imageshack.us/i/mcw60bug1x1024.jpg/

mcw60bug1x1024.jpg


I'll try it all out tomorrow evening when I get back home.
 
TehQuick said:
Well, at least now you have no grounds to argue that watercooling is useless because aircooling has caught up with it :cool: :D
Click to expand...

Bullshit. Air cooling will never be as good as water.

Sorry had to be said. :rolleyes:

Unless you mean something I'm not getting? :confused:
 
King Icewind said:
:(

The tubing for the Pond wouldn't worked just fine man. It's pretty bendable/flexible. Far cheaper too.

GL.
Click to expand...

It really seemed to kink quite easily. It was certainly no less prone to kinks than the 11/16th OD tubing that was already problematic for me in a couple spots. I'm pretty certain it wasn't 3/4 OD.

Remember guys, I'm using an externally mounted triple radiator. The thing's barbs are almost at the bottom of my case, whereas the case holes for watercooling (RC 690) are several inches above that. So it's a sharp bend, particularly for the barb that's farthest away from the side of the case where the holes are.

The alternative would be to buy 90 degree rotary fittings, but I'm trying to avoid that if possible. It's really bendable and almost impossible to kink. Maybe it has something to do with being braided.

The 11/16th stuff I had almost worked, but ended up kinking, so I'm thinking the 3/4 is the way to go.
 
King Icewind said:
Bullshit. Air cooling will never be as good as water.

Sorry had to be said. :rolleyes:

Unless you mean something I'm not getting? :confused:
Click to expand...

Just a reference to an old argument me and Matrices had a while ago ;) :D

Matrices said:
Remember guys, I'm using an externally mounted triple radiator. The thing's barbs are almost at the bottom of my case, whereas the case holes for watercooling (RC 690) are several inches above that. So it's a sharp bend, particularly for the barb that's farthest away from the side of the case where the holes are.
Click to expand...
Did you attach the rad in the middle to the radbox? I usually connect it to the bottom portion of the rad, that way there's plenty of room between the case holes and the rad's barbs. My tubing does stick out a 3" or so but not kinks and no rotary fittings :D
 
I did connect the radbox to the top part of the radiator, not the middle. I just think it makes everything look ugly to have the front of the rad stick up over the back of my case. I'll do it if I have to, but I prefer not to.

Whole problem started because my RC690, which I thought was a great case, supposedly had room for a dual rad up top, which is what I was originally going to go with. But it turns out that there's almost no room between the top 2x120mm fans and the RAM slots and VRM cooling at the top of my motherboard, so a rad wouldn't fit there unless I got a slim "stealth" one with 120x12 or 20mm fans. Lame planning there by Coolermaster.

As for our argument about watercooling, obviously I was wrong about taming Fermi with air. :) But I still think you can get perfectly adequate overclocking and noise levels for most other parts on air. Judging by ATI's growing marketshare and reported problems with Nvidia vendors, it looks like Nvidia is definitely paying the price for making such a thermally inefficient part.
 
Whatever works for you, I guess. I don't mind mine sticking out (although it's not much, ~2.5"), but then some people hate ANYTHING sticking outside the case, and would mod the heck out of it to fit in as many rads inside as humanly possible :D

As for air vs water: glad you finally agree with me. However, once you get the taste of the watercooling, you gonna have hard time going back to air ;) I did try going back to air after I tried watercooling back in P4 days, but I didn't last long :D
 
Here's how you stop a kink, just use a clamp. My radiator is externally mounted 3x120 with a radbox.

kHqZ7.png
 
Wow, epic fucking fail. Turned on the pump for 2 seconds and shut it off, saw water dripping from both my GPU blocks as though nothing was fucking connected there. Started doing damage control with napkins immediately.

How damn tight to the barbs have to be on the blocks? In my hurry I couldn't even tell if the problem was the hosing or the barbs, but I'm using brass clamps and everything.
 
Matrices said:
Wow, epic fucking fail. Turned on the pump for 2 seconds and shut it off, saw water dripping from both my GPU blocks as though nothing was fucking connected there. Started doing damage control with napkins immediately.

How damn tight to the barbs have to be on the blocks? In my hurry I couldn't even tell if the problem was the hosing or the barbs, but I'm using brass clamps and everything.
Click to expand...

If your barbs are clamped down I doubt its the barbs. If the leak is real bad, like not just drops but a stream, you may have a loose connection at the threads. Did your tubing go very easily over the barbs, or did you have to work them on? Sometimes 1/2 ID tubing going over smaller barbs can be bad news.

What blocks are you using again?
 
It's neither. The fucking GPU waterblocks themselves are leaking. I tightened down the G80 adapter plates as much as possible onto the MCW80 waterblock, poured water in the res again, and without even turning on the pump, water started leaking out of like the center of either GPU blocks.

Damn, I wouldn't be surprised if both my cards are toast now from all the water. Obviously I didn't have the system on, but it was quite a bit of water.,
 
I'm going to take the blocks off my cards and test them by themselves to pinpoint the exact issue.

I was using G80 adapter plates on MCW80, which is supposed to be compatible since it's the same dimensions as the MCW60, and the website even says you can use the G80 plates on them.
 
I notice you have some troubles with the pump fittings and your blocks.

I prefer compression fittings, yes they are more expensive, but I have never had a single leak with compressions.http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/coandro.html

Here's what I recommend for the MCP 655 :http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/bid5modtop.html
This top will allow you to place connectors pretty much any way you want, and not worry about kinking.
As for kinking at bends and such :http://www.frozencpu.com/products/6...ls_-_12_OD_Tubing_-_Clear.html?tl=g30c289s715 These are great. The coils wrap easily around any tubing and help you bend and shape tubing without worrying about kinking. You don't need to wrap the whole run of tubing, just in tight places. Comes in a bunch of snappy colors and is really cheap.

As for your leak......tighten all the barbs well by hand, then 1/4 turn with a pliers or socket wrench, but not too tight. Make sure all the barbs have o-rings at their bases before you screw them in.
Make sure the barbs are made for the tubing......ie: 1/2 ID barbs for 1/2" ID tubing.
Make sure your fasteners are tight. If you don't use compressions, "herbie" clamps are the next best thing and tend not to damage the tubing like "radiator" "worm-clamps" can.

You'll work through this easily.

As for bleeding the system, if you have a micro-res, fill the radiator and tubing, and the reservoir to about 3/4 full, turn on the pump and leave the top screw of the micro-res out. Don't worry the water won't come out. Let the system run, the air bubbles will escape out of the open top of the reservoir, add water as needed. Gently tilt the computer to release air bubbles, and tap the tubing to release air bubbles.
Once your satisfied, close up the reservoir.
 
Matrices said:
It's neither. The fucking GPU waterblocks themselves are leaking. I tightened down the G80 adapter plates as much as possible onto the MCW80 waterblock, poured water in the res again, and without even turning on the pump, water started leaking out of like the center of either GPU blocks.

Damn, I wouldn't be surprised if both my cards are toast now from all the water. Obviously I didn't have the system on, but it was quite a bit of water.,
Click to expand...

Did you check to make sure there was a gasket in the block and that it was in the groove correctly seated?
Those are single units and should not leak if properly seated.
Also check the tightness of the barbs.
 
Jesus Christ. The problem is that I am a retard. Take a look at this picture:

http://img39.imageshack.us/i/mcw60bugx1024.jpg/

It shows the adapter plate sitting on top of the block.

The way I had it was the adapter plate in between the black part of the block and the metal bottom; for some reason they come apart and I thought the plate goes in between. I never figured that I slide the adapter plate on top of the heatsink. I should have known that was wrong when it seemed like the heatsink was making almost no contact with the GPU core.

Well, guess I'll reassemble and try to see if either of my video cards are still alive. Is there anything I can dry, like blowing a hairdryer at them?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top