How can I create the WOW factor!? :)

[EzeroMobile50K]

Alright so I've got my computer with an Asus Xonar Essence STX, running directly to Corsair SP 2500 via the L/R analog on the card into the sub. And I just can't quite achieve that WOW factor in a medium sized room watching movies and such. Can I get some tips for doing so? Preferably without spending a fortune. Do I need to run via optical out into an external amp and then into a nice 5.1 system? What would be best you think? Best value per buck.

5.1 seems like a good spot. I don't really see the need for 7.1.

(would the monoprice subs be good? They have a pretty sexy price point, but I'm curious how they would compare to the corsair? I definitely feel a better sub is needed.)

 

[spaceman]

You want a solid 2.1 not 5.1.

Spend more $$ on the three good speakers and get a decent amp like an emotiva for some serious sound.

Used is always a good idea for audio too. Speakers and amps tend to last forever.

Need a budget though.

 

[blinx]

You want a solid 2.1 not 5.1.

Spend more $$ on the three good speakers and get a decent amp like an emotiva for some serious sound.

Used is always a good idea for audio too. Speakers and amps tend to last forever.

Need a budget though.

What he said.

Quality over Quantity!

 

[EzeroMobile50K]

Well, as for a budget, I'll estimate $80-150 for a sub, $80-150 per speaker, and idk what a good amp/receiver should run, let's say $200-300.

Flexible if the quality permits, like I said looking for the bank/buck sweet spot.

But are you sure there's no real benefit to having the 5.1? Seems like it would help a lot with immersion.

Well actually, with a good setup the speaker setup is probably pretty modular in the sense that with a good enough amp/receiver you could buy 2 nice quality speakers for 2.1 and later on buy 3 more of the same and change it to 5.1 right? That way avoiding buying a cheaper 5.1 system now and in the end having less quality sound.

 

[Forceman]

If you are talking movies, then I would spend the money on putting together a decent 5.1 setup. You really get a lot out of rear speakers for movies.

 

[extide]

For music, stereo is King. If you are on a budget and interested in music and sound quality you can get into some prety nice headphones and a small dac/amp and get quality you could expect from a verfy high end stereo setup for a reasonable amount. Of course, it's only headphones though. Just a thought. However if you are talking movies, Forceman is right.

 

[spaceman]

Well, as for a budget, I'll estimate $80-150 for a sub, $80-150 per speaker, and idk what a good amp/receiver should run, let's say $200-300.

Flexible if the quality permits, like I said looking for the bank/buck sweet spot.

But are you sure there's no real benefit to having the 5.1? Seems like it would help a lot with immersion.

Well actually, with a good setup the speaker setup is probably pretty modular in the sense that with a good enough amp/receiver you could buy 2 nice quality speakers for 2.1 and later on buy 3 more of the same and change it to 5.1 right? That way avoiding buying a cheaper 5.1 system now and in the end having less quality sound.

You have the right idea. Adding to it is the way to go. Your budget is tight but there is plenty of good gear. Plus, your sound card is a receiver. You can just buy a good t-amp for the speakers for now and run that and the sub from the soundcard. 5.1 is the ultimate goal but take steps t get there and you will get wow.

 

[EzeroMobile50K]

Well, I do know how great headphones can be, I used to own a pair of AudioTechnica ATH-900s. But this is for groups of family/friends watching movies off my projector, and for myself gaming on my monitor.


Googling T-Amp taught me a little bit about what they are. Can I get some solid recommendations at different price points for T-Amps?

And what would be ideal, running the 2 red and white analogs from the sound card, or the optical?

From there it's on to selecting sub/speakers ^^

And thanks a lot for your helpful advice guys, much appreciated.

 

[Skripka]

Shop used. You can get some crazy good deals on used AVRs. Especially if you don't need HDMI audio. I got my Kenwood-300 sub and my AVR for $50 used (with a pair of bookshelfs for free).

 

[Sycraft]

Well if you want wow factor with movies you need quality speakers and the budget really won't get that with 5.1 that well. In particular, you need something that can hit reasonably hard. Theatre reference levels are 105dB for the main channels, 115dB for the LFE channel. It takes some power to get that kind of output, even in a small room.

So if you want the big hits like you get in a theatre, which is what most people tend to mean when they talk about the wow factor, you need stuff with some power handling. Probably out of your budget range.

If I were to suggest reasonably budget stuff it would be JBL's low end. However that'll run you more than you spec. A JBL ES250P will run you like $300. That will do pretty well, though it won't hit reference levels.

Don't let me talk you out of 5.1 over all, I have it and love it, but then I've spent a bit more per speaker (my sub was a grand for reference). 5.1 gives you the ability to hear sounds behind you which is nice, and with good speakers provides excellent solid imaging. However it won't get you big hits. That comes from better speakers (and amps).

How much you need power wise depends on what SPL you want and how far away you are. To get a rough idea you take the stated speaker sensitivity, which is the level they get at 1 meter away with 1 watt of power. For each doubling in distance, subtract 6dB. For each 3dB increase in dB you want, double the wattage. So if your speakers are 90dB/w, you sit about 6 feet away and you want 100dBSPL, your speakers and amp need to be able to pull about 70 watts. If you want to push that to 105dBSPL same situation you need more like 260 watts, so it goes up real fast.

Also note that this is all just related to wow in terms of volume. Sound quality is another issue. Not all speakers sound alike, particularly at loud volume levels. Many distort quite badly which very much fails to wow in my opinion. Good theaters have speakers that can not only hit those levels, but do it without too much distortion and do it over the full frequency range.

In particular, you need to put some money in to a sub for big hits. They are expensive related to other things because they are large, and they have their own large amps. As I said, power requirements go up real fast so you can need tons of power to try and hit 115dB. Few systems can and it isn't like you need a system to be theatre reference, just letting you know what actual THX movie theatres have.

In terms of upgrades, yes actual modular separate components are fully modular. A receiver will work with any normal speakers. It also can work with them in different configurations, you just let it know what it has and it handles the routing.

 

[EzeroMobile50K]

Well if you want wow factor with movies you need quality speakers and the budget really won't get that with 5.1 that well. In particular, you need something that can hit reasonably hard. Theatre reference levels are 105dB for the main channels, 115dB for the LFE channel. It takes some power to get that kind of output, even in a small room.

So if you want the big hits like you get in a theatre, which is what most people tend to mean when they talk about the wow factor, you need stuff with some power handling. Probably out of your budget range.

If I were to suggest reasonably budget stuff it would be JBL's low end. However that'll run you more than you spec. A JBL ES250P will run you like $300. That will do pretty well, though it won't hit reference levels.

Don't let me talk you out of 5.1 over all, I have it and love it, but then I've spent a bit more per speaker (my sub was a grand for reference). 5.1 gives you the ability to hear sounds behind you which is nice, and with good speakers provides excellent solid imaging. However it won't get you big hits. That comes from better speakers (and amps).

How much you need power wise depends on what SPL you want and how far away you are. To get a rough idea you take the stated speaker sensitivity, which is the level they get at 1 meter away with 1 watt of power. For each doubling in distance, subtract 6dB. For each 3dB increase in dB you want, double the wattage. So if your speakers are 90dB/w, you sit about 6 feet away and you want 100dBSPL, your speakers and amp need to be able to pull about 70 watts. If you want to push that to 105dBSPL same situation you need more like 260 watts, so it goes up real fast.

Also note that this is all just related to wow in terms of volume. Sound quality is another issue. Not all speakers sound alike, particularly at loud volume levels. Many distort quite badly which very much fails to wow in my opinion. Good theaters have speakers that can not only hit those levels, but do it without too much distortion and do it over the full frequency range.

In particular, you need to put some money in to a sub for big hits. They are expensive related to other things because they are large, and they have their own large amps. As I said, power requirements go up real fast so you can need tons of power to try and hit 115dB. Few systems can and it isn't like you need a system to be theatre reference, just letting you know what actual THX movie theatres have.

In terms of upgrades, yes actual modular separate components are fully modular. A receiver will work with any normal speakers. It also can work with them in different configurations, you just let it know what it has and it handles the routing.

Well I think what I'm going to do is start with 2.1 and get the good speakers, and then later move up to 5.1.

Curious, would this sub be a good option? http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10906&cs_id=1090602&p_id=8249&seq=1&format=2
Or should I stay clear of monoprice? Cables asside. They have very few speaker options, and most are priced quite low. Was wondering if they had a nice deal there. Otherwise I'll need to find out which models are going to be good for the setup and look for some used ones for sale somewhere.

 

[bloodypulp]

a 3.1 system would be a minimum for home theater. the center channel is important for dialog and panning.

 

[SithSolo1]

For that budget:

From Newegg (All shipped Free)-

Front Pair - Pioneer SP-FS51-LR - $129/pair with the code - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117403 (Note these are short for floor standing speakers, you may need to put them on stands. Painted/covered cinder blocks would work and run you less than $10 for the pair.)
Rear Pair - Pioneer SP-BS21-LR - $49/pair with the code - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117405
Center - Pioneer SP-C21 - $49/ea with the code - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117404
Subwoofer - Energy S-10.3 - $189 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882269026

Total for the speakers = $412

From Accessories4Less.com (Shipping ~$15 per receiver) -

Refurb Denon AVR-1612 - $169 - http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...-5.1-Channel-A/V-Home-Theater-Receiver/1.html

Or

Refurb Denon AVR-1712 - $239 - http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...NON-AVR-1712-7.1-A/V-Surround-Receiver/1.html

Or

Refurb Onkyo TX-NR609 - $279 - http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...Channel-3-D-Ready-Network-A/V-Receiver/1.html

Should work well in a small to medium room and sound a good bit better than the Corsair setup. These are very well regarded speakers at the price point.

 

[EzeroMobile50K]

For that budget:

From Newegg (All shipped Free)-

Front Pair - Pioneer SP-FS51-LR - $129/pair with the code - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117403 (Note these are short for floor standing speakers, you may need to put them on stands. Painted/covered cinder blocks would work and run you less than $10 for the pair.)
Rear Pair - Pioneer SP-BS21-LR - $49/pair with the code - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117405
Center - Pioneer SP-C21 - $49/ea with the code - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117404
Subwoofer - Energy S-10.3 - $189 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882269026

Total for the speakers = $412

From Accessories4Less.com (Shipping ~$15 per receiver) -

Refurb Denon AVR-1612 - $169 - http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...-5.1-Channel-A/V-Home-Theater-Receiver/1.html

Or

Refurb Denon AVR-1712 - $239 - http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...NON-AVR-1712-7.1-A/V-Surround-Receiver/1.html

Or

Refurb Onkyo TX-NR609 - $279 - http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...Channel-3-D-Ready-Network-A/V-Receiver/1.html

Should work well in a small to medium room and sound a good bit better than the Corsair setup. These are very well regarded speakers at the price point.

The reviews on that sub seem a little sketchy.. The speakers seem like a good deal though. Not so sure about that sub? :|

 

[spaceman]

So that is a budget 5.1. Mine actually. I have it in my basement which is huge and I am actually slowly putting together another room specifically for HT. I had to pour concrete, lots and lots of concrete to make a floor. So yeah. Cinder blocks make great stands btw. Just cover them with some black fabric and viola! I don't care enough for that yet.

Anyway, I bought my receiver, a Boston AVR 7120 for $400 shipped and it is a heavyweight recveiver. The speakers are all boston acoustic rebrands called the speaker company which is no longer in business. Too bad bc they were inexpensive and well made.

So yeah, what to get? Well, look to craigslist, audiogon and polk audio forums. Older polk speakers like SDAs give you a WOW factor for sure. I had a pair of Polks that were, no shit, 36" WIDE and about 5' tall. Those hit hard as hell and created a wall of sound. Other great vintage speakers are the old Klipsch like the Heresy but they tend to be a bit $$. Anything by Paradigm is excellent for HT too and generally not too expensive. The cool thing is that they do run well on even small amps but you really would need a proper beast to get that big swing. I will look around my usual spots and see if I can find some good examples.

 

[EzeroMobile50K]

XD the cinderblocks make me giggle. And thanks. I'm pretty well set on those pioneer speakers, they have really good on sale pricepoints and seem to be solid performers. Looking for a good sub/amp to match.

 

[SithSolo1]

I have the energy sub, no issues. Alternate sub: BIC F12 - $200ish - http://www.amazon.com/BIC-America-F12-475-Watt-Subwoofer/dp/B0015A8Y5M

 

[Sycraft]

Well I think what I'm going to do is start with 2.1 and get the good speakers, and then later move up to 5.1.

Curious, would this sub be a good option? http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10906&cs_id=1090602&p_id=8249&seq=1&format=2
Or should I stay clear of monoprice? Cables asside. They have very few speaker options, and most are priced quite low. Was wondering if they had a nice deal there. Otherwise I'll need to find out which models are going to be good for the setup and look for some used ones for sale somewhere.

I don't know anything about Monoprice speakers. I would guess they are ok at best. I'm not at all unhappy with anything I've gotten from Monoprice but some of their things other than cables, like their power strips, are very basic.

Shopping the used market is never a bad idea. For subs SVS would be far and away my top recommendation, I have all SVS speakers and subs on my computer. However they are probably out of budget. JBL is a good choice, I've been pleased with their stuff I've heard, it isn't high end but doesn't cost a ton. HSU Research is highly rated though I've never heard any of their stuff. Yamaha is ok, not thrilled on their sound but they have some pretty cheap stuff and for the money it is decent. Polk is a nice choice, I'd liken them to JBL in many ways sound wise.

Any major brand sub should be at least ok.

In terms of main speakers, well if you are willing to spend money soon I'd seriously look at SVS's S-series speakers. They are having a blowout sale (getting new models) and they are way discounted. They aren't kidding about the SBS speakers being $150 off their regular price, it isn't one of those "fake markdowns". I have a full set of SVS's higher end M series speakers and they are awesome. So for $300 right now you could get 4x SBS-02s, and another $100 would get you an SCS center. How long the deal lasts I don't know. They are out of MBS-02s already, but all the S series are still in stock.

 

[EzeroMobile50K]

I don't know anything about Monoprice speakers. I would guess they are ok at best. I'm not at all unhappy with anything I've gotten from Monoprice but some of their things other than cables, like their power strips, are very basic.

Shopping the used market is never a bad idea. For subs SVS would be far and away my top recommendation, I have all SVS speakers and subs on my computer. However they are probably out of budget. JBL is a good choice, I've been pleased with their stuff I've heard, it isn't high end but doesn't cost a ton. HSU Research is highly rated though I've never heard any of their stuff. Yamaha is ok, not thrilled on their sound but they have some pretty cheap stuff and for the money it is decent. Polk is a nice choice, I'd liken them to JBL in many ways sound wise.

Any major brand sub should be at least ok.

In terms of main speakers, well if you are willing to spend money soon I'd seriously look at SVS's S-series speakers. They are having a blowout sale (getting new models) and they are way discounted. They aren't kidding about the SBS speakers being $150 off their regular price, it isn't one of those "fake markdowns". I have a full set of SVS's higher end M series speakers and they are awesome. So for $300 right now you could get 4x SBS-02s, and another $100 would get you an SCS center. How long the deal lasts I don't know. They are out of MBS-02s already, but all the S series are still in stock.

So compared to $250 shipped from newegg for the pioneers, 2 floor standing 2 bookshelf and 1 center.

I would get 2 bookshelf 1 center and 2 main monitors from SVS S-Series for about $500 + tax + shipping? (Would it be worth the extra $$ to get 2 monitors instead of 2 more bookshelf?)

So at more than double the price, is the value really there? Would you say? I do have an ear for superior sound quality and I do enjoy it. Will I appreciate these over the pioneers for double the price?

Just noticed SVS offers free shipping.

 

[spaceman]

So compared to $250 shipped from newegg for the pioneers, 2 floor standing 2 bookshelf and 1 center.

I would get 2 bookshelf 1 center and 2 main monitors from SVS S-Series for about $500 + tax + shipping? (Would it be worth the extra $$ to get 2 monitors instead of 2 more bookshelf?)

So at more than double the price, is the value really there? Would you say? I do have an ear for superior sound quality and I do enjoy it. Will I appreciate these over the pioneers for double the price?

Just noticed SVS offers free shipping.

Not really. The thing about speakers is that so long as you get a decent entry level set, which those pioneers are, you really have to pay a lot to get a noticeable return. My entry level setup blasts me off my damn chair as it is and my speakers are about the same as the pioneers with a slightly better sub woofer and a really decent, strong receiver.

Based on my experience, you will get a huge boost from what you have now going to the pioneers. Definite WOW difference there as opposed to going from the pioneers to svs.

Again, a good receiver with Audyssey calibration will be the next best investment. The calibration is vital to getting the most out of what you have. Otherwise, without good room correction, you will not have an optimal experience. I don't have that with my old reciever and had to tune by ear and that is also why my 5.1 is so tightly configured as the room has less influence on the sound that way. Kind of a "monitor 5.1".

So yeah, the pioneer is as good a budget buy as you can swing for a solid entry setup.

PS, two decent, entry level subwoofers = one really good one. Especially with a good receiver to calibrate them. Dual subs = definite WOW factor. Buy one now and add another later too. I would if I wasn't so damn poor atm. Wife in school, etc.

 

[EzeroMobile50K]

Not really. The thing about speakers is that so long as you get a decent entry level set, which those pioneers are, you really have to pay a lot to get a noticeable return. My entry level setup blasts me off my damn chair as it is and my speakers are about the same as the pioneers with a slightly better sub woofer and a really decent, strong receiver.

Based on my experience, you will get a huge boost from what you have now going to the pioneers. Definite WOW difference there as opposed to going from the pioneers to svs.

Again, a good receiver with Audyssey calibration will be the next best investment. The calibration is vital to getting the most out of what you have. Otherwise, without good room correction, you will not have an optimal experience. I don't have that with my old reciever and had to tune by ear and that is also why my 5.1 is so tightly configured as the room has less influence on the sound that way. Kind of a "monitor 5.1".

So yeah, the pioneer is as good a budget buy as you can swing for a solid entry setup.

PS, two decent, entry level subwoofers = one really good one. Especially with a good receiver to calibrate them. Dual subs = definite WOW factor. Buy one now and add another later too. I would if I wasn't so damn poor atm. Wife in school, etc.

You think you could provide any recommendations for a receiver/amp that matches that description?

Hmm, actually, let's assume for the moment that I'm going with the $500 5.1 SVS setup, what would be a great amp/receiver to pair with it? something south of $400 would be nice. Sound Quality > power > features.

 

[SithSolo1]

If you are going to spend ~$500 on speakers, I'd go with the Pioneers and this sub, http://www.amazon.com/BIC-PL-200-Acoustech-Platinum-Series/dp/B001W3FXAQ , over the $400 svs 5.0 setup and a ~$100 sub. I'm not saying the svs speakers are bad at all, they aren't esp for the price, but it doesn't make sense to get the nicer speakers and kill the whole theater experience with a weak sub.

Going refurbished or used will save you in the receiver. Check Audiogon.com for used gear, might even find a better sub/speaker deal.

 

[Sycraft]

For receivers look at Denon. The reason is as mentioned Audyssey is 100% worth the price of admission and Denon has it. Also Denon allows you to set it to Audsessy flat, which is a perfectly flat curve, rather than the reference curve with rolled highs. While the rolled highs are nice for movies (has to do with mixes for large theatres vs small homes) you don't want them for games.

So have a look at Denon's lineup and see what you can get that has Audyssey MultEQ on it. The cheapest current model with that is the AVR-1613 which goes for like $400, though I would suggest calling J&R or One Call and asking for a better price. Denon enforces minimum prices on the net, but a call can get lower often.

Also you can look at an older receiver used. You just want something with Audyssey MultEQ, Audyssey MultEQ XT or Audyssey MultEQ XT32 on it. I have a 3808CI and if you can find one used they may be around the same price as the newer stuff and they are amazing.

In terms of SVS vs Pioneer I can't really say, having not heard the Pioneers in question. Spaceman is right in terms of diminishing returns, every dollar you spend on audio improves the quality less than the dollar before it. What I can say is I'm extremely impressed with SVS in terms of value for the money. The MTS-01 towers I use as my main speakers were about $1200 for the pair. I find their sound quality to be superior to $4000 speakers from B&W. While I haven't had that side by side, I've heard both plenty (I like B&W and I auditioned them at the local dealer, I also have older less expensive B&W speakers) and that is my take on the sound. They are stellar speakers.

Now I am talking about their more expensive M series, of course, not their S series. However I have heard their older SBS-01s before and they impressed me.

If money needs to be saved though, you can for sure look at something cheaper. I will never ay SVS is the One True Way(tm). Their products start fairly expensive by most people's scales and audio is NOT a situation of "Get the best or get out." I have just been real, real happy with their products for the money, and the sale they have going on is legit. The SBS really are $300/pair, that's what they sold at for years, so it really is $300 speakers for $150. It is a good deal.

However that it is a good deal doesn't mean you should spend the money if it is out of your budget. You'll be very happy with the sound quality, but that is no good if you are unhappy about being in debt or the like.