How bad is the video noise on TN (and other) panels?

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Shaman

Limp Gawd
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I keep reading reviews where monitors get trashed for having noisy video playback, or 'twirling' like they say, specially at THG, many monitors get a beating there when it comes to screening movies.

How bad is this noise really? Is it something you notice if you're sitting like 3 foot away from the screen? How close to the screen do reviewers get to give their verdict?

I was under the impression that VA panels gave the best video quality, but the 215TW got a bad rep in the THG comparison, it really makes you think twice about getting a certain monitor. :eek:

I'm mostly interested on how store bought dvd's get affected by lcd's.

Thanks.
 
None whatsoever in my displaly; however, the video card and the software decoders that one is using is every bit as important as the panel/monitor display.
 
I never experienced any tearing or pixel twinkling-type effects with my old 740B, but the lack of color depth on skin tones was the worst part.
 
I've never really been pleased with DVD playback... there always seems to be pixelation or visible artifacts.
 
I don't watch dvds on my 2007wfp, but I did try one to see what it looked like. I can see grain when sitting up close, and it's less noticeable if you sit farther back. It's cause the low res dvd source is being upscaled to 1680X1050 res when you full screen the movie. If you don't full screen the movie, then you don't see any grain. You'll need to wait for hd content if you want good video playback on these high res monitors.
 
YUp totally agree with you xenogears i get the same thing on my LG204WT
 
Opinion is divided here, some notice it, some don't..

xenogears said:
I don't watch dvds on my 2007wfp, but I did try one to see what it looked like. I can see grain when sitting up close, and it's less noticeable if you sit farther back. It's cause the low res dvd source is being upscaled to 1680X1050 res when you full screen the movie. If you don't full screen the movie, then you don't see any grain. You'll need to wait for hd content if you want good video playback on these high res monitors.
Click to expand...
So you're saying the artifacts are not caused by the lcd panel itself but by scaling a 720x480 video source to 1680x1050?

So this is something that you also get on a 21" CRT running at 1600x1200?

Interesting, if your theory is correct, NO lcd monitor should produce noisy video when running HD videos like the 1080p ones available at microsoft, even the cheaper TN panels. Is that correct?

HD videos here:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/musicandvideo/hdvideo/contentshowcase.aspx
 
Shaman said:
Opinion is divided here, some notice it, some don't..


So you're saying the artifacts are not caused by the lcd panel itself but by scaling a 720x480 video source to 1680x1050?

So this is something that you also get on a 21" CRT running at 1600x1200?

Interesting, if your theory is correct, NO lcd monitor should produce noisy video when running HD videos like the 1080p ones available at microsoft, even the cheaper TN panels. Is that correct?

HD videos here:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/musicandvideo/hdvideo/contentshowcase.aspx
Click to expand...

Well I would assume so, but I don't have a 21 inch crt to test. I also have a lot of avi files (a lot of them dvdrips of stuff) encoded at 640X480 or a res close to that and when I fullscreen them, I see the grain on the vids. The grain is less noticeable on my 19 inch lcd, which has a 1280X1024 native res. However, I watch all my vids through tv out (on a standard tv) which has a res of 1024X768 and I don't notice any grain when I watch my vids on the tv sitting on the couch.
 
I'm not so sure about it being the size of the original source. The impression I get from reviews is that it's the specific panel's fault for the picture being noisy and twirly, maybe because of poor overdrive.. because some monitors get praised for good smooth video playback like the vx2025wm for example, so it can't be the video source.

Keep in mind some dvd's are grainy by nature, I'm not sure if that's the grain you're seeing.
 
Shaman said:
I'm not so sure about it being the size of the original source. The impression I get from reviews is that it's the specific panel's fault for the picture being noisy and twirly, maybe because of poor overdrive.. because some monitors get praised for good smooth video playback like the vx2025wm for example, so it can't be the video source.

Keep in mind some dvd's are grainy by nature, I'm not sure if that's the grain you're seeing.
Click to expand...

Could be that. I'm no expert on the subject and like I said I don't watch dvds on my comp. The only dvd I tested was finding nemo and I noticed grain on it, which I don't see when I play it on my tv.
 
The twinkling effect (also called "noise") is a characteristic of certain monitor panels in DVD or video playback (e.g. the expensive NEC20WMG is known to exhibit this trait). Just plain poor DVD or video playback (sometimes referred to as "grainyness") on the other hand is usually the result of poor deinterlacing or upscaling of the SD DVD; an issue that can be eliminateded with the use of certain video playback software tools and modern video cards-- takes a lot of tweaking, experimenting and effort, but the results can be similar to DVD playback using a quality upconvert DVD player with a LCD TV display.
 
rblews said:
The twinkling effect (also called "noise") is a characteristic of certain monitor panels in DVD or video playback (e.g. the expensive NEC20WMG is known to exhibit this trait). Just plain poor DVD or video playback (sometimes referred to as "grainyness") on the other hand is usually the result of poor deinterlacing or upscaling of the SD DVD; an issue that can be eliminateded with the use of certain video playback software tools and modern video cards-- takes a lot of tweaking, experimenting and effort, but the results can be similar to DVD playback using a quality upconvert DVD player with a LCD TV display.
Click to expand...
So how bad is this twinkling effect? At what distance from the screen does it become imperceptible? That's what I would like to know. :)

This should be tested with reference dvd's, like the 5th Element or Gladiator or any other well mastered dvd to rule out any other possibility.

I'm well aware of what grainy dvd's look like, I also watch them on an lcd projector and at that size you can spot them way too easily.
 
I found this article:

http://www.behardware.com/articles/...t-the-twinkling-effect-of-lcds-in-movies.html

Here's an excerpt of it:

"We know in principle that if we choose a LCD PVA, MPA, ASV, TN or even worse, IPS, you will have to step back at least 1.5 or 2 meters to ignore the twinkling effects that exists in videos. .... The only technologies spared are CRTs (tube monitors) and to some extent LCD monitors equipped with Premium-MVA panels manufactured by AU-Optronics (like the Belinea 10 20 30W, ViewSonic VX2025wm...)."

Damn 1.5 to 2 meters? Didn't thought it was that bad, it must be unwatchable. :(
 
There is absolutely no twinkling effect in DVD playback on my LCD (LG203wt). I believe you will only see the twinkling effect in certain displays.
 
I just recently purchased a 2007WFP and am really pleased with it so far.

If you watch a lot of DVD's like I do, I have a trick for all of you.

DO NOT ENTER FULL SCREEN MODE (Alt + Enter) WITH YOUR DVD SOFTWARE!!!

There will be noise that is really quite annoying and unwatchable under my terms.

The trick is to just manually resize the window so it fits your entire widescreen and hide your taskbar.

VOILA!!! No noise whatsoever. Weird but it works! :)
 
TheYoshi said:
I just recently purchased a 2007WFP and am really pleased with it so far.

If you watch a lot of DVD's like I do, I have a trick for all of you.

DO NOT ENTER FULL SCREEN MODE (Alt + Enter) WITH YOUR DVD SOFTWARE!!!

There will be noise that is really quite annoying and unwatchable under my terms.

The trick is to just manually resize the window so it fits your entire widescreen and hide your taskbar.

VOILA!!! No noise whatsoever. Weird but it works! :)
Click to expand...
That really is weird... thanks for the tip.
 
Maybe I don't notice the twinkling effect because I have not changed my glasses in the last few years :D
 
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