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Hot swappable IDE hard drive setups?

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’m‚³‚ñ

Supreme [H]ardness
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Jun 20, 2003
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I got a "Birthday Present" from a friend. Basically, it's an ancient drive bay for IDE drives. It had a 3 gig Seagate drive in it, if that tells you how old it is. ;)

Anyway, the trey can be connected/disconnected pretty easily, and everything connects/disconnects at once. Is this trey safe to use for hot swapping? I can post pictures if requested (thanks ot another birthday present I got).

Man, this trey caused me a lot of anguish. Someone had taken it apart, and disconnected one of the little internal IDE things, then reconnected it, but only lining half of the pins up. So, it didn't work. :p Also, this thing is old enough that it doesn't have the 'key pin' missing, so I bent the pin that kept the cable from successfully joining with the trey. Yes, my PC is ghetto... I should post pics, it's pretty bad. Okay, it's 3 am and I'm rambling... Oh, last thing: The trey had a sticker on it saying "Warning: Do not remove while the Windows are running as it may damage the systems"... Since this is pre-XP Pro, does it still apply? The windows...
 
At lot of those trays aren't hot swap capable. Chances are it isn't, especially if it's old enough to have a 3GB drive in it.
 
I don't think IDE as a bus, without barrier electronics, is capable of hot-swapping.
 
pata/ide drives are not hot swappable, the controllers do not support it, and as was said just about, the electronics don't support it either. The closest you'll find to hotswappable right now will be 80 pin scsi drives and sata-IO(sata-2).
 
I have hot swappable SCSI treys, but they don't fit into any case I currently have. :(

I thought hot swap was built into the IDE standard?
 
’m‚³‚ñ said:
I thought hot swap was built into the IDE standard?
Click to expand...
Nope. I believe it's built into the SATA standard, but not IDE. It's semi-standard with 80-pin SCSI drives, but just a controller, drive, and 68->80 pin adapter won't do it- you need hot swap trays/backplanes.
 
to paraphrase/quote some smart (ass?) person
"anything is hot-swapable if you are fast enough"
:p :p :p
 
defakto said:
pata/ide drives are not hot swappable, the controllers do not support it, and as was said just about, the electronics don't support it either. The closest you'll find to hotswappable right now will be 80 pin scsi drives and sata-IO(sata-2).
Click to expand...

almost totally true :p

Promise employs a sideband technology that allows IDE hotswap w\ some of their carriers & cards
http://www.promise.com/company/press/press_news_detail_eng.asp?press_id=9

and under Win95 there was limited OS hotswap support as well
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;192604
more or less what USB is now

but the issues of OS diskmanagement support, controller\protocol support
and above all physical grounding \ data glitching
http://www.t10.org/ftp/t10/document.94/94-230r1.pdf

means that for all intensive purposes you power down, swap and power back up ;)
 
I know a guy who used to hot-swap ide drives. Or more accurately, forget to plug them in, turn on the machine, then realize the drive isn't plugged in and just plug it in while the power was on. I'm not sure if he ever fried one, but at least it usually worked.
 
zandor said:
I know a guy who used to hot-swap ide drives. Or more accurately, forget to plug them in, turn on the machine, then realize the drive isn't plugged in and just plug it in while the power was on. I'm not sure if he ever fried one, but at least it usually worked.
Click to expand...

Usually when we did this in tech class, the machine would just lock up. Never damaged any drives...

I'm going to try removing a drive from the hardware setup of the computer before removing it. :p
 
One of the main ways to fiddle with an XBox involves hot-swapping the IDE drives. (But for a different reason.)

Also, I should mention, from what I understand, Hot-Swappability is NOT built into the S-ATA standard. It is SUPPORTED. (This means that NOT every S-ATA drive can hotswap, but some can.)
 
You can hot swap anything if you're fast enough (which for the most part we're not). :D
 
TeeJayHoward said:
Also, I should mention, from what I understand, Hot-Swappability is NOT built into the S-ATA standard. It is SUPPORTED. (This means that NOT every S-ATA drive can hotswap, but some can.)
Click to expand...



Serial ATA and the 7 Deadly Sins Of Parallel ATA (2002)

specifically > http://www.lostcircuits.com/advice/sata150/8.shtml
4. New Smart Connectors Enable Hot Plug Capabilities

Nobody who has ever worked with the parallel ribbon cables has not cursed about the connectors, broken fingernails and bent pins as well as simple cuts from trying to connect the drive in a crowded environment are probably the most under-represented reasons for the move to a new interface.

The new SATA connectors have a number of little devils in the detail that make them much more than meets the eye. First of all, the connectors are keyed so there is no possibility to accidentally reverse the cables, input will always connect to output and vice versa but that is only the beginning. The SATA interface uses what is called a staggered pin design, meaning that there are two different lengths of pin used, long and short ones. All in all, this offers a total of three different combinations, i.e., long on long, long on short and short on short. Since the way of plugging the cable into the device is always the same, this can be used to generate a temporal sequence of connectivity, that is, the long on long pins always connect first, followed by the long on short and the short on short pins are always going to be the last connections closed.

The biggest foe of any hot plugging scheme of electronic components is electrostatic discharge which can effectively zap any device into oblivion. The countermeasure is usually grounding and as simple as it appears, the idea to use long on long pin conections for grounding both devices is nothing short of brilliant since these connections will always be shorted eons (in electron years) before the data and power wires connect.

In other words, whenever a drive is connected to a receiver, the first thing that is established is the electrostatic equilibrium necessary to protect the data lines. As soon as power is established, the drive will be able to run through its initialization sequence and establish a handshake with the host. The real beauty is that this can be accomplished without power-down of the host, in other words, we have hot swap capabilities and it is all made possible through an extra mm of copper.
Click to expand...

Ill again link this pdf for other considerations to any hotswap senerio
http://www.t10.org/ftp/t10/document.94/94-230r1.pdf
 
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